Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

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Comments

  • That's 1.2 million not 800 000.
  • I should probably invest in a calculator! Or, use the one on my phone and laptop.
  • Either way, it's an Amazing Achievement, by the most achievious government that ever achieved a First Class Honours degree in Achievements from Achievement-town University...
    :disappointed:
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    RooK wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    RooK wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    My point is that the voters didn't care

    And the counter point that you refuse to blink at is that the majority of voters not giving enough of a fuck to counter the urges of Britains xenophobic asshole¹ demographic is not the definition of a mandate.
    [wanking sounds] mmmmmmandate!

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    I appreciate that you are not a supporter of Brexit.

    I give zero fucks about Brexit. However, my objective understanding of every argument supporting it is fundamentally based on xenophobia. And the comorbid stupidity it nests in. And you personify all of that as passionately as a weasel in rut.
    What group am I in?

    You occupy a shelf labelled Exhibit Q: proof that RooK does not own this site.

    Comorbid...I had to look that up. Proof that I must be stupid.

    Indeed. Particularly given the word has been in widespread use in the current situation.

    I can't be doing with such words. Give me plain english every time

    It’s a medical term. Many illnesses have other comorbid conditions.

    In medicine, comorbidity is the presence of one or more additional conditions often co-occurring (that is, concomitant or concurrent with) with a primary condition.

    It is plain English.

    It's not a word I have heard my doctor use.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited July 2020
    I've not heard mine use colonoscopy, perineum, sphincter or pancreas either but I know what they mean.

    Plenty of words I don't know the meaning of, but I just look them up or seek clarification and expand my vocabulary. I suppose I could just have an intellectual inverse-snobbery whinge about it instead, of course.
  • I do love eloquence. As is so often the case, taking a word from a specific context and reapplying it to another where no specific equivalent term exists can be a very effective way of clearly explaining a point. The use here of comorbidity is a good example.

    Not knowing the meaning of the word in no way implies stupidity. There are lots of terms I don't know.

    What is a sign of poor thinking, is playing the victim @Telford: firstly the initial 'I must be stupid' to set up the pretence that the word is being used in a pretentious and sneering manner. Secondly, the notion that it's not 'plain English' is just doubling down on a silly argument that you couldn't support in the first place.

    I love reading posts that make me think. I do not remotely like reading your posts...

    AFZ
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    I do love eloquence. As is so often the case, taking a word from a specific context and reapplying it to another where no specific equivalent term exists can be a very effective way of clearly explaining a point. The use here of comorbidity is a good example.

    Not knowing the meaning of the word in no way implies stupidity. There are lots of terms I don't know.

    What is a sign of poor thinking, is playing the victim @Telford: firstly the initial 'I must be stupid' to set up the pretence that the word is being used in a pretentious and sneering manner. Secondly, the notion that it's not 'plain English' is just doubling down on a silly argument that you couldn't support in the first place.

    I love reading posts that make me think. I do not remotely like reading your posts...

    AFZ

    No problem I forgive you anyway.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Can I recommend a stack of old Readers' Digests and the item "It pays to increase your word power"?
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Penny S wrote: »
    Can I recommend a stack of old Readers' Digests and the item "It pays to increase your word power"?

    Of course you can
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I've not heard mine use colonoscopy, perineum, sphincter or pancreas either but I know what they mean.

    Plenty of words I don't know the meaning of, but I just look them up or seek clarification and expand my vocabulary. I suppose I could just have an intellectual inverse-snobbery whinge about it instead, of course.

    Perhaps you're too young to hear them - too early for things to go wrong with you. Colonoscopies here are not just commonly mentioned by doctors, but are the topic in general conversation - inability to play tennis or golf because you'll be preparing for a colonoscopy (not very pleasant times in your life, the procedure itself is really nothing) etc.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Passive aggressive forgiveness - I don’t like it.
  • Yes, forgiveness as baiting. Ingenious.
  • What is a sign of poor thinking, is playing the victim

    There is a performative element to the stupidity on display that is quite annoying.
  • Are you referring to our Great Leader, or to a New Town which seems to know quite a few Old Tricks?
    :wink:
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    The thread is supposed to be about the Dear Leader, I believe.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Colonoscopies in the general area of arseholes are they not?
  • Yes, and 'There is a performative element to the stupidity on display that is quite annoying.' could quite easily apply to the Great Leader, no?
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    @Telford wrote:
    ....I had to look that up. Proof that I must be stupid.
    I would not care to weigh in on that, but I would say that it is far better to look up a word one doesn't know than to simply guess at its meaning.
    Telford wrote: »
    ...I can't be doing with such words. Give me plain english every time
    Now, that is a sentiment that could be labelled "stupid." That's particularly true since "plain English" is itself a collection of borrowings from languages not originally associated with Anglo-Saxon, including Latin and Norman French. Are you puzzled by someone announcing an intention to take a siesta? I suspect that that Spanish usage wasn't "plain English" until relatively recently in the life of the language. Have you learned to navigate around the Internet, or to use a mobile? Those words are even newer creations.

    English is fluid; English grows. Some neologisms and lazy usages (no, it's not "less people," it's fewer people!) pain me personally, but English is perhaps the richest language in the world because of the long-running tendency of Anglophones to swipe good words from others.

    So turn to your dictionary, whether online or on your shelf, when you encounter a word that is new to you. Read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest - and rejoice that your native tongue offers so much variety.

    And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to have a slice of yummy bara brith. I like the way the Welsh words trip off the tongue almost as much as I enjoy putting the foodstuff on my tongue.
  • PendragonPendragon Shipmate
    I am glad you can find some in your neck of the woods.

    We have been supportive of the lockdown measures, but we both think that the latest pronouncements are getting rather close to political stunts.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    A lovely English lady at my church baked it for me.

    We could use a few more political stunts aimed at bringing down the numbers in the red (in both popular senses of the word) state wherein I dwell.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    edited July 2020
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    @Telford wrote:
    ....I had to look that up. Proof that I must be stupid.
    I would not care to weigh in on that, but I would say that it is far better to look up a word one doesn't know than to simply guess at its meaning.
    Telford wrote: »
    ...I can't be doing with such words. Give me plain english every time
    Now, that is a sentiment that could be labelled "stupid." That's particularly true since "plain English" is itself a collection of borrowings from languages not originally associated with Anglo-Saxon, including Latin and Norman French. Are you puzzled by someone announcing an intention to take a siesta? I suspect that that Spanish usage wasn't "plain English" until relatively recently in the life of the language. Have you learned to navigate around the Internet, or to use a mobile? Those words are even newer creations.

    English is fluid; English grows. Some neologisms and lazy usages (no, it's not "less people," it's fewer people!) pain me personally, but English is perhaps the richest language in the world because of the long-running tendency of Anglophones to swipe good words from others.

    So turn to your dictionary, whether online or on your shelf, when you encounter a word that is new to you. Read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest - and rejoice that your native tongue offers so much variety.

    And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to have a slice of yummy bara brith. I like the way the Welsh words trip off the tongue almost as much as I enjoy putting the foodstuff on my tongue.

    I'm from the Black Country. We have our own version of english.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    I know people from the Black Country who speak perfectly intelligible English - and hiding behind local dialect as an excuse for not wanting to be bothered to look up a common word in standard English is hardly an attractive look.

    Now pull up your socks, adjust your mask, and put your education to good use, just this once.

  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I know people from the Black Country who speak perfectly intelligible English - and hiding behind local dialect as an excuse for not wanting to be bothered to look up a common word in standard English is hardly an attractive look.

    Now pull up your socks, adjust your mask, and put your education to good use, just this once.

    Stop being so aggressive. It's not a common word.
  • Telford wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I know people from the Black Country who speak perfectly intelligible English - and hiding behind local dialect as an excuse for not wanting to be bothered to look up a common word in standard English is hardly an attractive look.

    Now pull up your socks, adjust your mask, and put your education to good use, just this once.

    Stop being so aggressive. It's not a common word.

    Given my profession, I am in no position to know how commonly it's used.

    However, you're the one who made it about you with your snarky 'I must be stupid.'

    Let me float you a hypothesis; if anything makes people wonder if you're stupid, it's these last few posts, making this whole thing personal and overly complicated. Conversely a simple "I am not familiar with 'comorbidity' and had to look it up... " would have painted yourself in a very good light. Then we could have spent a couple of pages asking if the substantive point was valid or not. And no one would have thought you stupid for taking that road.

    AFZ

    P.s. Mr Johnson is a good example of why vocabulary alone is a poor indicator of intelligence.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    @alienfromzog said -
    P.s. Mr Johnson is a good example of why vocabulary alone is a poor indicator of intelligence.

    Indeed.

    He sometimes puts on a good act. But any of us can bamboozle others with our knowledge of the subjects we studied in depth (or our specialist interests). The fact that he studied the ones which are supposed to show a ‘good education’ is irrelevant.

    He’s woefully ignorant of the very things he needs to know - the real lives of people in the U.K. today.
  • And wilfully ignorant?
  • And wilfully ignorant?

    It's not always easy to tell not wanting to know from not giving a shit.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    And wilfully ignorant?

    It's not always easy to tell not wanting to know from not giving a shit.

    I'd say he does nothing to counter the anti-intellectualism with which our culture (and not just in the West Midlands north of Birminham) is cursed.
  • I've always thought Boris Johnson a very poor user of English. He uses unnecessary and inaccurate superlatives, delivered in untidy stumbling sentences, which gives an impression of bluster, ignorance and indifference; which may of course be entirely deliberate. An apparently intelligent, well-educated, upper class person who struggles to speak coherently, whilst smiling bashfully is, to some people, disarmingly irresistible. If you think the funny posh person trying to run your country is basically bright but aww, look how sweet it is when it tries in its disarming bumbling way to interact with others, you're caught off guard.

    He also uses throw-away foreign language phrases which add nothing to the meaning of what he says, and is genuinely unable to judge when it is appropriate to jest or make flippant remarks. The only time, so far as I can judge, that he has been quite clear and appropriately sensible to the subject he's addressing, is when he's obviously reading and sticking to a prepared script, which one supposes might well have been written or at least outlined by someone else.

    I wouldn't say he's not intelligent as such. Just that if he is, for some strategic reason it masquerades as this act he has where he clearly hopes to disarm his audience by his 'charm', at the same time assuming they will see underneath to his real brightness and smartness, thus short-cutting any need on his part to actually go to the trouble of being bright or smart.

    Interestingly, I think the Boris Johnson we sometimes see at PMQs is more the real thing. Red-faced, baffled, impatient, evasive, angry at being asked er.... questions and expected to answer them. In other words, someone who probably has the capacity to put in a good day's work, but who has never really had to be bothered to do so, and is really rather resenting being held to that expectation now that 66 million people are relying on him for it.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Yes - Covid19 has done that. Forced him to be serious. I think he is struggling.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    I am told that someone said of the Emperor Claudius that "only an idiot pretends to be an idiot" - and got away with it. I have been unable to find the quote in an ancient source. (I thought it would be appropriate to put it in Latin.)
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I know people from the Black Country who speak perfectly intelligible English - and hiding behind local dialect as an excuse for not wanting to be bothered to look up a common word in standard English is hardly an attractive look.

    Now pull up your socks, adjust your mask, and put your education to good use, just this once.

    Stop being so aggressive. It's not a common word.

    Given my profession, I am in no position to know how commonly it's used.

    However, you're the one who made it about you with your snarky 'I must be stupid.'

    Let me float you a hypothesis; if anything makes people wonder if you're stupid, it's these last few posts, making this whole thing personal and overly complicated. Conversely a simple "I am not familiar with 'comorbidity' and had to look it up... " would have painted yourself in a very good light. Then we could have spent a couple of pages asking if the substantive point was valid or not. And no one would have thought you stupid for taking that road.

    AFZ

    P.s. Mr Johnson is a good example of why vocabulary alone is a poor indicator of intelligence.

    Why am I getting all these insults. I have not insulted anyone?
    KarlLB wrote: »
    And wilfully ignorant?

    It's not always easy to tell not wanting to know from not giving a shit.

    I'd say he does nothing to counter the anti-intellectualism with which our culture (and not just in the West Midlands north of Birminham) is cursed.

    The Black Country is to the west of Birmingham.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Nevertheless, if the cap fits you're welcome to wear it.
  • As someone who has lived in the Black Country for some years may I reassure Shipmates that the proportion of well-educated articulate people with extensive vocabularies (and the ability to use a dictionary if necessary) seems to me to be much as the same as in other parts of the country?
  • Telford wrote: »
    I can't be doing with such words. Give me plain english every time

    Now, now. Black Country, as a way of speaking English, is many things that is great and wonderful - but I think the good folks who live there would be a little insulted to think of it as merely 'plain'! ;-)



  • Anselmina wrote: »
    <snip>
    Interestingly, I think the Boris Johnson we sometimes see at PMQs is more the real thing. Red-faced, baffled, impatient, evasive, angry at being asked er.... questions and expected to answer them. In other words, someone who probably has the capacity to put in a good day's work, but who has never really had to be bothered to do so, and is really rather resenting being held to that expectation now that 66 million people are relying on him for it.

    Very true. My heart bleeds for him...
    :naughty:

  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Anselmina wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I can't be doing with such words. Give me plain english every time

    Now, now. Black Country, as a way of speaking English, is many things that is great and wonderful - but I think the good folks who live there would be a little insulted to think of it as merely 'plain'! ;-)



    Yes. You are right. I was out of order.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Margaret wrote: »
    As someone who has lived in the Black Country for some years may I reassure Shipmates that the proportion of well-educated articulate people with extensive vocabularies (and the ability to use a dictionary if necessary) seems to me to be much as the same as in other parts of the country?

    and what proportion would that be ?
  • Boogie wrote: »
    Yes - Covid19 has done that. Forced him to be serious. I think he is struggling.

    Indeed he is, and his (and his government's) ghastly mishandling of just about everything connected with this bloody plague is rapidly heading us towards a second lockdown, thousands upon thousands more deaths, and (as the icing on the cake) a no-deal Brexshit especially designed to foul up the country even further...
    :scream:

  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Telford wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I know people from the Black Country who speak perfectly intelligible English - and hiding behind local dialect as an excuse for not wanting to be bothered to look up a common word in standard English is hardly an attractive look.

    Now pull up your socks, adjust your mask, and put your education to good use, just this once.
    Stop being so aggressive. It's not a common word.
    Coming from you, accusations of being "aggressive" are fairly comical. And common or not, nothing is stopping you from looking it up.
    Margaret wrote: »
    As someone who has lived in the Black Country for some years may I reassure Shipmates that the proportion of well-educated articulate people with extensive vocabularies (and the ability to use a dictionary if necessary) seems to me to be much as the same as in other parts of the country?
    That was my strong impression, from my visits to the Black Country. Ah, but what's the "So Aggressive" level of the people in your neighborhood?

  • People on the Ship often use words I don't know. If a simple Google search doesn't illuminate me, I ask.
  • Also, it takes longer to type "I don't know what X means." into the Ship than it does X into a new tab to search for it.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Anselmina wrote: »
    <snip>
    Interestingly, I think the Boris Johnson we sometimes see at PMQs is more the real thing. Red-faced, baffled, impatient, evasive, angry at being asked er.... questions and expected to answer them. In other words, someone who probably has the capacity to put in a good day's work, but who has never really had to be bothered to do so, and is really rather resenting being held to that expectation now that 66 million people are relying on him for it.

    Very true. My heart bleeds for him...
    :naughty:

    My heart bleeds for the 66 million. (I know that you were being ironic.)
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I know people from the Black Country who speak perfectly intelligible English - and hiding behind local dialect as an excuse for not wanting to be bothered to look up a common word in standard English is hardly an attractive look.

    Now pull up your socks, adjust your mask, and put your education to good use, just this once.
    Stop being so aggressive. It's not a common word.
    Coming from you, accusations of being "aggressive" are fairly comical. And common or not, nothing is stopping you from looking it up.
    I tend to use words that people will not need to look up.
    Margaret wrote: »
    As someone who has lived in the Black Country for some years may I reassure Shipmates that the proportion of well-educated articulate people with extensive vocabularies (and the ability to use a dictionary if necessary) seems to me to be much as the same as in other parts of the country?
    That was my strong impression, from my visits to the Black Country. Ah, but what's the "So Aggressive" level of the people in your neighborhood?
    Living there for most of your life is different to visiting. As for agression, I was not referring to anyone in my neighbourhood. I waited in vain for Margaret to find out where she lived in The Black Country.

    My last comment on the fact that I was not aware of the meaning of a word which was not mentioned when I did my GCE O level in English Language.

  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Telford wrote: »
    ...I tend to use words that people will not need to look up.
    I tend to use the right word for a given situation. (It takes, at most, 30 seconds to look up a meaning - and you get to learn something new!)
    Living there for most of your life is different to visiting. As for agression <sic>, I was not referring to anyone in my neighbourhood. I waited in vain for Margaret to find out where she lived in The Black Country. ...
    I know the answer to that, having stayed in her guest room more than once, but it's her choice to decide whether to share that or not.

    I was hoping that you would mention whether or not your accusation of my being "so aggressive" had anything to do with my possession of a pair of X chromosomes. You seem to have no problem with being highly aggressive yourself. Perhaps, in your mind, it's exclusively permitted as a Guy Thing?

  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I know people from the Black Country who speak perfectly intelligible English - and hiding behind local dialect as an excuse for not wanting to be bothered to look up a common word in standard English is hardly an attractive look.

    Now pull up your socks, adjust your mask, and put your education to good use, just this once.
    Stop being so aggressive. It's not a common word.
    Coming from you, accusations of being "aggressive" are fairly comical. And common or not, nothing is stopping you from looking it up.
    I tend to use words that people will not need to look up.
    Margaret wrote: »
    As someone who has lived in the Black Country for some years may I reassure Shipmates that the proportion of well-educated articulate people with extensive vocabularies (and the ability to use a dictionary if necessary) seems to me to be much as the same as in other parts of the country?
    That was my strong impression, from my visits to the Black Country. Ah, but what's the "So Aggressive" level of the people in your neighborhood?
    Living there for most of your life is different to visiting. As for agression, I was not referring to anyone in my neighbourhood. I waited in vain for Margaret to find out where she lived in The Black Country.

    My last comment on the fact that I was not aware of the meaning of a word which was not mentioned when I did my GCE O level in English Language.

    Yes ok but the ship is a discussion space and we do need to use technical language. Salvation is not understood by some. The right words for the context may not a well known but a lesser known one.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    You can't demand that others confine their vocabularies to yours. For one thing, they have no way of knowing the extent of your vocabulary. Since you seem to think GCE O Level defines it (Ah ha, age hint there), I wonder if you have extended it to include words pertinent to your other subjects, or your employment, or your hobby, or if you have actually read any other material, fiction or non-fiction since you were 16. It seems unlikely that you haven't. The words necessary to function on line would not have been around then, for example.
    BTW, don't try and read Stephen Donaldson. I had to go down to the public library with a list to look up in the Webster - not the Oxford - dictionary. That was before online sources, of course.
  • Sorry, Telford, I wasn't keeping up with things over the weekend - I live in sunny (at the moment) Walsall.
  • Looking up words is handy, in case it turns out that the word you do not know is one that *everyone* else knows.

    Take the subject of this thread. I was astonished to hear that Boris was M.P. for Uxbridge, as I was under the impression that Uxbridge was a fictional place, invented by I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue

    Fortunately I looked it up on Google Maps and confirmed that it actually exists before broadcasting my ignorance all over the Ship.

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Uxbridge may well be a fictional place, invented to give our Great Leader somewhere to represent at Wastemonster, as no-one else wanted him...

    (With all due respects to its good people, should it be real).
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