I'm sure I've seen that particular difference between British and American forms before. That is, in American English you can link an action to a day directly, but in British English (and Australian) you have to describe an action as occurring on a day.
Reminds me of another one creeping Americanism - to refer to a person living "on" a street rather than "in" which would be the UK usage.
I've been saying "on" for 70 years, Mancunian maybe.
It always puts the image in my mind of a person living on the streets.
Kakhi the first vowel is ah. This is a long vowel.
Cocky the first vowel is as in "sock". This is a short vowel.
Even without the vowel length differences they're distinct sounds. Ah is an open vowel, short o much more closed.
Mind you, to our ears, many Americans seem to wear 'sahks' rather than 'socks'
Thanks. To be honest, when you compare “ah” and the vowel in “sock,” I do indeed hear in my head the same sound. But then, I think I can also hear in my mind a British pronunciation of “sock” and so maybe I get the difference.
Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.
cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.
Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, . . .
I don’t think I’ve ever heard “cack” before. As far as that goes, I know what “ca-ca” means, but I rarely hear it. And “kybo” is a new one on me too. We had “latrines” in Scouts,
Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?
I apologize I was meaning khaki but it had upstream been said it was pronounced the same as cacky so I took it as read, etc. etc.
If homage confuses, then so will portage, but I always assumed it was simply English vs French. In this very Anglo part of Canada, portage will always be heard as in French.
Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.
cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.
Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, . . .
I don’t think I’ve ever heard “cack” before. As far as that goes, I know what “ca-ca” means, but I rarely hear it. And “kybo” is a new one on me too. We had “latrines” in Scouts,
Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?
I apologize I was meaning khaki but it had upstream been said it was pronounced the same as cacky so I took it as read, etc. etc.
No worries. That made perfect sense to this American. What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?
john holdingEcclesiantics Host, Mystery Worshipper Host
Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.
cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.
Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, . . .
I don’t think I’ve ever heard “cack” before. As far as that goes, I know what “ca-ca” means, but I rarely hear it. And “kybo” is a new one on me too. We had “latrines” in Scouts,
Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?
I apologize I was meaning khaki but it had upstream been said it was pronounced the same as cacky so I took it as read, etc. etc.
No worries. That made perfect sense to this American. What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?
Kar - Key.
Roughly the way it was pronounced by Brits in South Africa after the South African War -- it's a South African word (I don't know which language of the many possible) related to fields of mud and dull green vegetation. Pronunciation frozen in the British Army prior to the first war, when it became the universal colour of uniforms ( as it is to this day in the British and some other armies).
Kah-Key -- the US (and non-military Canadian) pronunciation started when someone looked at how the word was spelt and tried to make sense of it.
Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.
Surely the scouts' "kybo" was really an acronym - Keep Your Bowels Open?
Wikipedia thinks that is a ‘backronym’
This appears to have originated from camps which used Kybo brand coffee cans to hold lye or lime which was sprinkled down the hole to reduce odor. "Keep Your Bowels Open" may be a backronym.
Kar - Key.
Roughly the way it was pronounced by Brits in South Africa after the South African War -- it's a South African word (I don't know which language of the many possible) related to fields of mud and dull green vegetation. Pronunciation frozen in the British Army prior to the first war, when it became the universal colour of uniforms ( as it is to this day in the British and some other armies).
Kah-Key -- the US (and non-military Canadian) pronunciation started when someone looked at how the word was spelt and tried to make sense of it.
Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.
Not South African origin, as far as I know. The word “khaki” was originally a loan word from Urdu meaning “dust,” or “dusty.” In the mid-19th century the British adopted khaki fabric with this name for its uniforms, first in India and then worn in campaigns throughout the British Empire, including during the Anglo-Boer War in South Africa in circa 1900.
A word in Afrikaans that isn't related but sounds like khaki, is 'kak' meaning shit.
I'm sure I've seen that particular difference between British and American forms before. That is, in American English you can link an action to a day directly, but in British English (and Australian) you have to describe an action as occurring on a day.
Reminds me of another one creeping Americanism - to refer to a person living "on" a street rather than "in" which would be the UK usage.
I've been saying "on" for 70 years, Mancunian maybe.
Possibly; my father came from Blackburn and "on" sounds natural to me.
Kar - Key.
Roughly the way it was pronounced by Brits in South Africa after the South African War -- it's a South African word (I don't know which language of the many possible) related to fields of mud and dull green vegetation. Pronunciation frozen in the British Army prior to the first war, when it became the universal colour of uniforms ( as it is to this day in the British and some other armies).
Kah-Key -- the US (and non-military Canadian) pronunciation started when someone looked at how the word was spelt and tried to make sense of it.
Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.
Not South African origin, as far as I know. The word “khaki” was originally a loan word from Urdu meaning “dust,” or “dusty.” In the mid-19th century the British adopted khaki fabric with this name for its uniforms, first in India and then worn in campaigns throughout the British Empire, including during the Anglo-Boer War in South Africa in circa 1900.
A word in Afrikaans that isn't related but sounds like khaki, is 'kak' meaning shit.
Which of course has a cognate in English giving rise to the sniggers if a Brit hears the phrase "Khaki pants" using the US pronunciation of "khaki".
Sounds like poop to me. Ca-ca. Which you do in the kybo.
cacky and cah-cah don't sound a bit alike. We also had kybos but only in Boy Scouts.
Cacky would imply ‘covered in cack’ (ie poop) to me, . . .
I don’t think I’ve ever heard “cack” before. As far as that goes, I know what “ca-ca” means, but I rarely hear it. And “kybo” is a new one on me too. We had “latrines” in Scouts,
Is there a difference in the UK pronunciation of “khaki” and “cocky”?
I apologize I was meaning khaki but it had upstream been said it was pronounced the same as cacky so I took it as read, etc. etc.
No worries. That made perfect sense to this American. What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?
Kar - Key.
So is the r rhotic or non-rhotic?
Kah-Key -- the US (and non-military Canadian) pronunciation started when someone looked at how the word was spelt and tried to make sense of it.
Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.
As @mousethief said, it’s not pronounced kah-key in the US. It’s pronounced kack-key—kack rhyming with sack or knack.
In most non-rhotic British English accents, khaki and car key sound quite similar, but I think khaki has a stronger emphasis on the first syllable, and the 'e' sound at the end of the second syllable is clipped shorter.
When I've heard rhotic speakers say khaki, they've used a rhotic 'r' just like they would in car key.
In most non-rhotic British English accents, khaki and car key sound quite similar, but I think khaki has a stronger emphasis on the first syllable, and the 'e' sound at the end of the second syllable is clipped shorter.
When I've heard rhotic speakers say khaki, they've used a rhotic 'r' just like they would in car key.
What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?
Yes, I think British khaki and American cocky are pretty similar if you hear the words in isolation.
What I’ve been trying to get my head around is the British pronunciation of “khaki,” since it apparently isn’t “cacky” or (British) “cocky.” I’m thinking maybe it does rhyme more or less with an American pronunciation of “cocky”?
Yes, I think British khaki and American cocky are pretty similar if you hear the words in isolation.
Depends. Most American accents are rhotic. And I'm gathering that most British accents are not. So...
Which was my point. If most Brits are nonrhotic, and most Americans are rhotic, there's no way "British khaki and American cocky are pretty similar if you hear the words in isolation." The presence of an r on one side is going to completely fuck up the resemblance.
Which was my point. If most Brits are nonrhotic, and most Americans are rhotic, there's no way "British khaki and American cocky are pretty similar if you hear the words in isolation." The presence of an r on one side is going to completely fuck up the resemblance.
But there isn't an 'r' on either side. Non-rhotic Brits don't pronounce a medial 'r' in khaki, and rhotic people don't insert an 'r' in cocky (or it would be "corky").
More like the generation before. I’m closer to 69 than 68 and haven’t heard that turn of phrase in over 50 years.
Back in the day it cost 2 pence to use the loos in railway stations ( needed 2 old pennies in the slot to get the damned door open) and later 5 cents at David Jones (upmarket dept store in the city). I recall going there while hugely pregnant ( & desperate) back in 1977. A dear old lady (all dressed to the nines as befitted a jaunt to town) arrived at the Ladies’ along with me; she remarked “ bugger that I’ll hang onto it”
We don't see pay toilets anymore here. It is common to pull over on a highway and pee. Low population and traffic make it possible.
Well, that works if you're a guy--or exhibitionist, I suppose.
Yeah, my internship supervisor and I (very rural context, 3 of 4 church buildings had no toilets) came to the conclusion that the reason it took a long time to ordain women had nothing to do with theology and everything to do with indoor plumbing!
70 cents in Toulouse station the other day. Maybe I'm odd, but I'm always encouraged to see a toilet you have to pay for. It means it's going to be clean, which is far from given when it's free.
We don't see pay toilets anymore here. It is common to pull over on a highway and pee. Low population and traffic make it possible.
Well, that works if you're a guy--or exhibitionist, I suppose.
We do his and hers, plus dog. When our kids (daughters all) were with us, it was a group thing. Including dog. I do have a copy of "How to Shit in the Woods", which devotes some discussion on how not to pee on your feet when squatting, and otherwise how to answer nature's call with finesse.
I don’t know that Click go the Shears is much known outside Oz, though the tune (with different words) apparently originated in the American Civil War.
I don’t know that Click go the Shears is much known outside Oz, though the tune (with different words) apparently originated in the American Civil War.
Wikipedia says:
The tune is the American Civil War song "Ring the Bell, Watchman" by Henry Clay Work and the first verse follows closely, in parody, Work's lyrics as well.
The name is given in red, so no link to the words. Does any US shipmate know them please?
There’s a version here with links at the foot of the page to other related songs. The ‘Strike the bell’ link takes you through to a page about the author.
We also had a song for decimalisation, which I learned in primary school. It went to the tune of the 12 days of Christmas and ran: On the fourteenth day of February 1971
There’s going to be
Decimal currency
With a hundred pennies in a pound.
Comments
It always puts the image in my mind of a person living on the streets.
Thanks. To be honest, when you compare “ah” and the vowel in “sock,” I do indeed hear in my head the same sound. But then, I think I can also hear in my mind a British pronunciation of “sock” and so maybe I get the difference.
I apologize I was meaning khaki but it had upstream been said it was pronounced the same as cacky so I took it as read, etc. etc.
Kar - Key.
Roughly the way it was pronounced by Brits in South Africa after the South African War -- it's a South African word (I don't know which language of the many possible) related to fields of mud and dull green vegetation. Pronunciation frozen in the British Army prior to the first war, when it became the universal colour of uniforms ( as it is to this day in the British and some other armies).
Kah-Key -- the US (and non-military Canadian) pronunciation started when someone looked at how the word was spelt and tried to make sense of it.
Kah-key is now in North America what they call a sort of light tan colour, or a type of trouser.
Kah-key in this corner of North America isn't how any word is pronounced.
Wikipedia thinks that is a ‘backronym’
Not South African origin, as far as I know. The word “khaki” was originally a loan word from Urdu meaning “dust,” or “dusty.” In the mid-19th century the British adopted khaki fabric with this name for its uniforms, first in India and then worn in campaigns throughout the British Empire, including during the Anglo-Boer War in South Africa in circa 1900.
A word in Afrikaans that isn't related but sounds like khaki, is 'kak' meaning shit.
Possibly; my father came from Blackburn and "on" sounds natural to me.
Which of course has a cognate in English giving rise to the sniggers if a Brit hears the phrase "Khaki pants" using the US pronunciation of "khaki".
As @mousethief said, it’s not pronounced kah-key in the US. It’s pronounced kack-key—kack rhyming with sack or knack.
Very genteel scouts then.
When I've heard rhotic speakers say khaki, they've used a rhotic 'r' just like they would in car key.
Yes, I think British khaki and American cocky are pretty similar if you hear the words in isolation.
Re "sniggers". We snicker. Never snigger.
This is an old idiom from when one called from a payphone in the US it would cost a dime to make a local call.
My grandkids have never heard of it.
Depends. Most American accents are rhotic. And I'm gathering that most British accents are not. So...
But there's no 'r' in cocky, even the way Americans say it, which makes some sort of approximation for a non-rhotic "car".
But there isn't an 'r' on either side. Non-rhotic Brits don't pronounce a medial 'r' in khaki, and rhotic people don't insert an 'r' in cocky (or it would be "corky").
Still in use here, perhaps more common amongst women beyond the first flush of youth.
Back in the day it cost 2 pence to use the loos in railway stations ( needed 2 old pennies in the slot to get the damned door open) and later 5 cents at David Jones (upmarket dept store in the city). I recall going there while hugely pregnant ( & desperate) back in 1977. A dear old lady (all dressed to the nines as befitted a jaunt to town) arrived at the Ladies’ along with me; she remarked “ bugger that I’ll hang onto it”
Wish I’d been able to do the same!
The rate has gone up, it’s more like ‘Euronate’ now.
It's free in all underground stations that have one, now.
Well, that works if you're a guy--or exhibitionist, I suppose.
Or living in Québec, regardless of traffic density.
Yeah, my internship supervisor and I (very rural context, 3 of 4 church buildings had no toilets) came to the conclusion that the reason it took a long time to ordain women had nothing to do with theology and everything to do with indoor plumbing!
We do his and hers, plus dog. When our kids (daughters all) were with us, it was a group thing. Including dog. I do have a copy of "How to Shit in the Woods", which devotes some discussion on how not to pee on your feet when squatting, and otherwise how to answer nature's call with finesse.
When you find one that only costs 1d you can let the other penny drop.
"On the fourteenth of February
Nineteen sixty six." (Sung to Click go the Shears for those of you of younger years).
Wikipedia says:
The tune is the American Civil War song "Ring the Bell, Watchman" by Henry Clay Work and the first verse follows closely, in parody, Work's lyrics as well.
The name is given in red, so no link to the words. Does any US shipmate know them please?
On the fourteenth day of February 1971
There’s going to be
Decimal currency
With a hundred pennies in a pound.