'Slough', here, as a grubby pond or the conurbation west of London rhymes with 'bough' and 'sow'.
"Sow" the verb, as when you sow seed, or "Sow" the noun, meaning a female pig?
Sorry. The noun. Same vowel as 'cow'.
On the others, since, 'coupon' = 'coopon'. 'Tuesday' = 'Tyoosday' unless you live in East Anglia, where it's 'toosday'. 'Bury' and 'berry' are homophones. Both rhyme with 'merry' but neither rhymes with 'Mary' or 'marry', which, as I said, aren't homophones here (England) either.
Although one is the French version of the other, 'Marie' here is quite a different pronunciation from 'Mary'. The stress goes on the second syllable, 'Mǝree'. 'Maria' usually these days the same with an extra schwa at the end but in the past was more usually Mǝ-rye-ǝ, as it still is when it's a police van.
'Sophia' varies between Sǝ-phye-ǝ and Sǝ-phee-ǝ, and you have to remember which one the person calls themselves. If uncertain, it's probably safest to go for Sǝ-phye-ǝ.
Middle light of traffic light sequence, probably usually, and certainly officially, 'amber'. A marked crossing for pedestrians is that i.e. a 'pedestrian crossing'. Here, it's 'driving licence' not 'driver's licence'.
Oh, and 'mobile phone' or 'mobile' here, not 'cell phone'.
I do wish we still had the spot on each post where we could indicate where exactly we were located in the world (or elsewhere). Everybody keeps saying "here, we say it..." and I can never remember precisely where "here" is for everybody.
Exactly. Not that any of us played silly games with that of course....
I'm not sure if it's only in North America any longer, but omitting the first 'r' from February is quite annoying (to me). I try to help by explaining to people that it's the only month with a brewery in it.
I'm not sure if it's only in North America any longer, but omitting the first 'r' from February is quite annoying (to me). I try to help by explaining to people that it's the only month with a brewery in it.
"Feboorey" or "Febry" is the normal pronunciation around here. Fe-brewery would sound a bit affected.
Oh dear - you'll have to put me down as "affected" then. My late father even pronounced it "Fe-brew-ar-y", with a short but definite "ah" sound on the "a".
But I'm Scottish - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
Regarding Mary/marry - no. Mary rhymes with fairy, and marry with carry.
Naught/not - not quite a perfect rhyme to me: the vowel sound in "naught" is a little longer than that in "not".
I'll also add my voice to the chorus for Lord Bragg's book - it's excellent. If you want another in a similar vein, but a little lighter-going, I'd heartily recommend Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson.
I'm not sure if it's only in North America any longer, but omitting the first 'r' from February is quite annoying (to me). I try to help by explaining to people that it's the only month with a brewery in it.
"Feboorey" or "Febry" is the normal pronunciation around here. Fe-brewery would sound a bit affected.
I usually find that your accent matches mine, and 'febry' sounds right. A double /r/ as in 'febrewery', very rare. Scottish accents will be different, of course, with stronger vowels (?).
The thing about a non-rhotic accent is you pronounce both rs in February and nobody can tell.
Non-rhotic accents only drop the 'r' in digraphs like ar, ir, or. The ar in February doesn't represent this digraph, and anyway the 'r' reappears before a vowel, even over word boundaries.
Mary rhymes with airy (mix of London and RP). (Hopkins has The Blessed Virgin Compared with the Air we Breathe which I think give or take the w must be deliberate.)
Marry is a short a, as by rhyme Harry, or by assonance mad.
Wort is I think the vowel in word or bird or dirt give or take voiced or unvoiced (or aspirated if that's the term) consonants.
Coupon and Tuesday are interesting. I'd say older people say Q or cue in coupon, and younger would say coo.
Oh, thank goodness! I thought for a minute you were going to say coupon and Tuesday were homophones.
From ST, do you call the traffic light yellow or amber? The one between the red and the green? And what is the street crossing for pedestrians called?
In the UK, it's amber. In the US, it's yellow. (And of course the sequence is different. UK is red - red + amber - green - amber - red. US is red - green - yellow - red.)
UK crossings are zebra crossings (black + white stripes across the road, often marked by Belisha beacons), pelican crossings (a pedestrian crossing with a traffic light) or toucan crossings (like a pelican crossing, but where a bike path also crosses the roadway).
I think I actually pronounce February Febrǝry, with a tiny schwa between the two 'r's. If speaking really fast or the stress is on something else, I suspect they sometimes do merge as 'Febry'. I don't think I pronounce the 'u' properly unless I'm trying to enunciate really carefully.
I think I actually pronounce February Febrǝry, with a tiny schwa between the two 'r's.
Same here, though sometimes it's more like the 'oo' in book, but it's very quick, not stressed. Though if reciting the months, rhythmically, like you do as a kid, then I say an exaggerated 'Jan-yoo-erry, Feb-roo-erry, ...'
How do those shipmates who give 'Miniature' four syllables fit them in? It's usually three, as minichǝ here with the stress on the first syllable. Although it uses the phonetic alphabet, the dictionary on my computer says the same.
How do those shipmates who give 'Miniature' four syllables fit them in? It's usually three, as minichǝ here with the stress on the first syllable. Although it uses the phonetic alphabet, the dictionary on my computer says the same.
I'd imagine that you'd have to be very arch and proper, holding out your curled little finger at the same time. It is possible, but who would? Your pronunciation is that used here.
Something I notice with my wife who grew up in New Jersey is that she will often use Yiddish expressions. On the other hand, I grew up in Idaho in a German community and often use German or Spanish expressions.
"February" and "miniature" each has four syllables
And the thirteenth element has 5.
(Al-you-MIN-ee-um)
If spelled aluminium, a grotesque innovation rammed through the international community by people who have no respect for the scientists who first name elements.
How do those shipmates who give 'Miniature' four syllables fit them in? It's usually three, as minichǝ here with the stress on the first syllable. Although it uses the phonetic alphabet, the dictionary on my computer says the same.
I haven't heard it for 50 years. Now classed as conservative RP. It's usually mini, then schwa, then cher (schwa).
What about the h in where and white? Is it very old-fashioned to pronounce it?
Not in Scotland.
Exactly what I was about to say!
D., who was English, and didn't voice it very strongly in ordinary speech, always insisted on his singers voicing the "h" in white and where, even suggesting that we voice it before the "w" - "hwere", so that it would be heard in a big acoustic.
(UK readers might like to try reading a random passage while replacing all the vowel sounds with that which lives in the middle of RP 'bird' - on the IPA it looks a bit like a '3' - and seeing if they sound like they come from Hull )
D., who was English, and didn't voice it very strongly in ordinary speech, always insisted on his singers voicing the "h" in white and where, even suggesting that we voice it before the "w" - "hwere", so that it would be heard in a big acoustic.
Yes. In BBTGAF it sounds much better to sing hwich, according to his abundant ... rather than hearing witch, according... (I'm sure you know exactly what I'm referring to! ).
D., who was English, and didn't voice it very strongly in ordinary speech, always insisted on his singers voicing the "h" in white and where, even suggesting that we voice it before the "w" - "hwere", so that it would be heard in a big acoustic.
Yes. In BBTGAF it sounds much better to sing hwich, according to his abundant ... rather than hearing witch, according... (I'm sure you know exactly what I'm referring to! ).
I do indeed!
[tangent]
When we were in Belfast, we sang at a memorial service for the people killed in the Kegworth air crash, which was attended by the Great, the Good and Mrs. Thatcher. BBTGAF was the anthem, and the silly old bat fell asleep during it ...
[/tangent]
Ha Ha! Reminds me of a friend with a local bishop visiting who obviously disliked the parish and it's priest. It was Advent, reading about John the Baptist so they sang This is the record of John by Gibbons - not sure the bishop, who shared a name with the prophet, appreciated the choice
D., who was English, and didn't voice it very strongly in ordinary speech, always insisted on his singers voicing the "h" in white and where, even suggesting that we voice it before the "w" - "hwere", so that it would be heard in a big acoustic.
Yes. In BBTGAF it sounds much better to sing hwich, according to his abundant ... rather than hearing witch, according... (I'm sure you know exactly what I'm referring to! ).
When I was studying, one of the lecturers had quite a posh-sounding RP English accent, with precise articulation, and she would also pronounce the 'h' in 'wh-' words. Some of the students were kind of judgy about it behind her back - saying it was pretentious, an affectation, that the 'h' is silent, and she shouldn't be saying it. But there was something in her way of speaking that reminded me of someone I knew who'd been born in Edinburgh and then moved to England as a small child, so I asked her about her accent, if she'd ever lived in Edinburgh, and it turns out she also had as a small child.
D., who was English, and didn't voice it very strongly in ordinary speech, always insisted on his singers voicing the "h" in white and where, even suggesting that we voice it before the "w" - "hwere", so that it would be heard in a big acoustic.
Yes. In BBTGAF it sounds much better to sing hwich, according to his abundant ... rather than hearing witch, according... (I'm sure you know exactly what I'm referring to! ).
BBTGAF? Sorry, but I can’t work it out.
Blessed be the God and Father (of our Lord Jesus Christ) an eminently enjoyable sing of an anthem (YouTube) by Samuel Sebastian Wesley
When I was studying, one of the lecturers had quite a posh-sounding RP English accent, with precise articulation, and she would also pronounce the 'h' in 'wh-' words. Some of the students were kind of judgy about it behind her back - saying it was pretentious, an affectation, that the 'h' is silent, and she shouldn't be saying it. But there was something in her way of speaking that reminded me of someone I knew who'd been born in Edinburgh and then moved to England as a small child, so I asked her about her accent, if she'd ever lived in Edinburgh, and it turns out she also had as a small child.
Yes, I am guessing that it's very resistant to change, as with the short /a/ sound for northerners, e.g., bath. People who change their accent often leave a trace. Fanny, innit?
When I was studying, one of the lecturers had quite a posh-sounding RP English accent, with precise articulation, and she would also pronounce the 'h' in 'wh-' words. Some of the students were kind of judgy about it behind her back - saying it was pretentious, an affectation, that the 'h' is silent, and she shouldn't be saying it. But there was something in her way of speaking that reminded me of someone I knew who'd been born in Edinburgh and then moved to England as a small child, so I asked her about her accent, if she'd ever lived in Edinburgh, and it turns out she also had as a small child.
Yes, I am guessing that it's very resistant to change, as with the short /a/ sound for northerners, e.g., bath. People who change their accent often leave a trace. Fanny, innit?
It's strange, the rest of her accent was very RP. Long a in words like bath. I think it was more from her mother she got the accent, or at least the 'wh-,' because she moved to England so young, before she started speaking. I suppose with some things you somehow automatically adapt to your environment, but you don't notice other things.
Another thing about the way she spoke was a kind of breathiness. I don't know how to explain it, but a kind of different voice quality from what you often hear in RP - softer, breathier, or maybe more friction in how the sounds come out - which was also the same in the other person I knew who'd been born in Edinburgh. And when I think about it, it's something that I do tend to hear in Scottish voices. I find it very soothing to listen to - I like to hear Scottish people talk. It's hard to pin down and describe though, as it's not a phoneme thing, and of course everyone's voices are different anyway, so it's hard to convey that, in addition to that, a particular voice quality could be connected to an accent. I have no idea if anyone will know what I mean, or if they will think I'm talking nonsense!
D., who was English, and didn't voice it very strongly in ordinary speech, always insisted on his singers voicing the "h" in white and where, even suggesting that we voice it before the "w" - "hwere", so that it would be heard in a big acoustic.
Yes. In BBTGAF it sounds much better to sing hwich, according to his abundant ... rather than hearing witch, according... (I'm sure you know exactly what I'm referring to! ).
BBTGAF? Sorry, but I can’t work it out.
Blessed be the God and Father (of our Lord Jesus Christ) an eminently enjoyable sing of an anthem (YouTube) by Samuel Sebastian Wesley
Fineline, that may be true. I remember learning about creaky glottis, also called creaky voice, when I studied phonetics, but this is found in some women, it's said that the Kardashians use it! And I do notice it in films. Breathiness is different but may be found in some accents, I am thinking Irish English (southern), but could be wrong.
Comments
Here all four are the same.
All four rhyme here.
On the others, since, 'coupon' = 'coopon'. 'Tuesday' = 'Tyoosday' unless you live in East Anglia, where it's 'toosday'. 'Bury' and 'berry' are homophones. Both rhyme with 'merry' but neither rhymes with 'Mary' or 'marry', which, as I said, aren't homophones here (England) either.
Although one is the French version of the other, 'Marie' here is quite a different pronunciation from 'Mary'. The stress goes on the second syllable, 'Mǝree'. 'Maria' usually these days the same with an extra schwa at the end but in the past was more usually Mǝ-rye-ǝ, as it still is when it's a police van.
'Sophia' varies between Sǝ-phye-ǝ and Sǝ-phee-ǝ, and you have to remember which one the person calls themselves. If uncertain, it's probably safest to go for Sǝ-phye-ǝ.
Middle light of traffic light sequence, probably usually, and certainly officially, 'amber'. A marked crossing for pedestrians is that i.e. a 'pedestrian crossing'. Here, it's 'driving licence' not 'driver's licence'.
Oh, and 'mobile phone' or 'mobile' here, not 'cell phone'.
What? I've never heard anyone rhyme all those in Australia. Do you seriously rhyme "taught" with "not"? Or "carry" and "fairy"?
My error - I was intending to agree with Enoch.
Exactly. Not that any of us played silly games with that of course....
"Feboorey" or "Febry" is the normal pronunciation around here. Fe-brewery would sound a bit affected.
But I'm Scottish - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
Regarding Mary/marry - no. Mary rhymes with fairy, and marry with carry.
Naught/not - not quite a perfect rhyme to me: the vowel sound in "naught" is a little longer than that in "not".
I'll also add my voice to the chorus for Lord Bragg's book - it's excellent. If you want another in a similar vein, but a little lighter-going, I'd heartily recommend Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson.
I usually find that your accent matches mine, and 'febry' sounds right. A double /r/ as in 'febrewery', very rare. Scottish accents will be different, of course, with stronger vowels (?).
Non-rhotic accents only drop the 'r' in digraphs like ar, ir, or. The ar in February doesn't represent this digraph, and anyway the 'r' reappears before a vowel, even over word boundaries.
But you knew that.
Marry is a short a, as by rhyme Harry, or by assonance mad.
Wort is I think the vowel in word or bird or dirt give or take voiced or unvoiced (or aspirated if that's the term) consonants.
Oh, thank goodness! I thought for a minute you were going to say coupon and Tuesday were homophones.
In the UK, it's amber. In the US, it's yellow. (And of course the sequence is different. UK is red - red + amber - green - amber - red. US is red - green - yellow - red.)
UK crossings are zebra crossings (black + white stripes across the road, often marked by Belisha beacons), pelican crossings (a pedestrian crossing with a traffic light) or toucan crossings (like a pelican crossing, but where a bike path also crosses the roadway).
"February" and "miniature" each has four syllables -- and "February" has two Rs.
Same here, though sometimes it's more like the 'oo' in book, but it's very quick, not stressed. Though if reciting the months, rhythmically, like you do as a kid, then I say an exaggerated 'Jan-yoo-erry, Feb-roo-erry, ...'
(Al-you-MIN-ee-um)
I'd imagine that you'd have to be very arch and proper, holding out your curled little finger at the same time. It is possible, but who would? Your pronunciation is that used here.
If spelled aluminium, a grotesque innovation rammed through the international community by people who have no respect for the scientists who first name elements.
Not in Scotland.
MIN-i-a-TURE
I haven't heard it for 50 years. Now classed as conservative RP. It's usually mini, then schwa, then cher (schwa).
Maybe it came down to me via my paternal grandmother who claimed descent from "Scottish aristocrats" - unspecified.
Exactly what I was about to say!
D., who was English, and didn't voice it very strongly in ordinary speech, always insisted on his singers voicing the "h" in white and where, even suggesting that we voice it before the "w" - "hwere", so that it would be heard in a big acoustic.
Yes. In BBTGAF it sounds much better to sing hwich, according to his abundant ... rather than hearing witch, according... (I'm sure you know exactly what I'm referring to! ).
[tangent]
When we were in Belfast, we sang at a memorial service for the people killed in the Kegworth air crash, which was attended by the Great, the Good and Mrs. Thatcher. BBTGAF was the anthem, and the silly old bat fell asleep during it ...
[/tangent]
I've never heard this, but just went to listen to the Merriam Webster audios of the word, and one sounds kind of like 'many a chore.'
I say MIN-itch-uh. I've only heard it that way.
Blessed be the God and Father (of our Lord Jesus Christ) an eminently enjoyable sing of an anthem (YouTube) by Samuel Sebastian Wesley
(Score PDF)
Yes, I am guessing that it's very resistant to change, as with the short /a/ sound for northerners, e.g., bath. People who change their accent often leave a trace. Fanny, innit?
It's strange, the rest of her accent was very RP. Long a in words like bath. I think it was more from her mother she got the accent, or at least the 'wh-,' because she moved to England so young, before she started speaking. I suppose with some things you somehow automatically adapt to your environment, but you don't notice other things.
Another thing about the way she spoke was a kind of breathiness. I don't know how to explain it, but a kind of different voice quality from what you often hear in RP - softer, breathier, or maybe more friction in how the sounds come out - which was also the same in the other person I knew who'd been born in Edinburgh. And when I think about it, it's something that I do tend to hear in Scottish voices. I find it very soothing to listen to - I like to hear Scottish people talk. It's hard to pin down and describe though, as it's not a phoneme thing, and of course everyone's voices are different anyway, so it's hard to convey that, in addition to that, a particular voice quality could be connected to an accent. I have no idea if anyone will know what I mean, or if they will think I'm talking nonsense!