Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • The nippy ginger beer variety we see here is called Pirate. Cutlass to your tongue, you scurvy rat!
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    That's right Firenze. She used to drink it diluted with hot water.
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    I often enjoy a glass of Stones Green Ginger Wine and dry ginger ale. You only use a small amount of the wine which is topped up with lots of dry ginger. Tasty and refreshing.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    orfeo wrote: »
    Ginger ale really only tends to be consumed here as a mixer I think. Even then I think it's become a lot more common in relatively recent times.

    Brandy and dry (ginger ale) used be a fairly common "ladies" drink. I tried it once and it tasted pretty awful. I imagine it would be even worse with ginger beer. At a bit of a tangent, brandy, lime and (chilled) soda is pretty good on a hot summer afternoon.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    orfeo: "And yes, a soft drink absolutely must fizz. It doesn't simply mean lacking alcohol. Come to think of it, I'm wondering now whether alcoholic ginger beer would still be regarded as a soft drink..."

    I don't know but in the US apple cider is not alcoholic unless it's "hard". My guess is that soft drinks are an alternative to hard ie alcoholic drinks. But this is just speculation.

    From "Today I found out":
    "It turns out, soft drinks aren’t just flavored carbonated beverages. “Soft Drink” refers to nearly all beverages that do not contain significant amounts of alcohol (hard drinks)."

    Personally I've never heard coffee or tea referred to as soft drinks.

    The article also attributed the origin of the term to the advertising industry which needed a more universal term to encompass the regional names- soda, pop, fizzy drinks, coke, minerals, etc.

    Here is the article: https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/07/why-carbonated-beverages-are-called-soft-drinks/
  • Lyda wrote: »
    I don't know but in the US apple cider is not alcoholic unless it's "hard". My guess is that soft drinks are an alternative to hard ie alcoholic drinks. But this is just speculation.

    That is how I have always heard the term used, and used it.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Soft drinks used to be listed in cafes/restaurants as 'Minerals', short for Minneral waters', I suppose.
  • Can anyone answer my query about Canadian Ginger Beer? Is it Canadian, or known in Canada at all?
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    @Robert Armin is that what's sold as 'Canada Dry' here? Is it called that in Canada, or just 'Dry' or something else?
  • Canada Dry is a brand name, at least in the US. Aside from ginger ale, they make a number of products, including tonic water, seltzer water, club soda, lemonade and one of my favorites—Wink (grapefruit based).

  • It's a brand name. Nothing more.

    There is no such thing as Canadian bacon though.
  • Heh,
  • I'm most aware of it as made by Schweppes.
  • Canada Dry is owned by Dr Pepper.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    NOw, is he the son or the father of Sgt Pepper?
  • I don't think pepper is actively involved.
  • It's a very large family. A Pepper Army, in fact.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    It's a very large family. A Pepper Army, in fact.

    That's the würst pun ever.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    One of my kids is not like the others. She got her start in life up through the first five years on the east side of the Mississippi. She refers to carbonated drinks as "soda." The other three have lived nearly all their lives west of the Mississippi. They refer to those drinks as "pop."
  • Why do north Americans talk about "funeral services", plural, when the rest of us use the singular for the same singular event? I asked a minister and he had no idea either.
  • Why do north Americans talk about "funeral services", plural, when the rest of us use the singular for the same singular event? I asked a minister and he had no idea either.

    I've never heard "funeral services" used for a single service.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    One of my kids is not like the others. She got her start in life up through the first five years on the east side of the Mississippi. She refers to carbonated drinks as "soda." The other three have lived nearly all their lives west of the Mississippi. They refer to those drinks as "pop."

    This has, of course, been studied.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Why do north Americans talk about "funeral services", plural, when the rest of us use the singular for the same singular event? I asked a minister and he had no idea either.

    I've never heard "funeral services" used for a single service.

    Around here (southern Ontario) you'll see it all the time in death notices and obituaries. Perhaps it's a regional usage, but I've seen it elsewhere, too.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Why do north Americans talk about "funeral services", plural, when the rest of us use the singular for the same singular event? I asked a minister and he had no idea either.

    I've never heard "funeral services" used for a single service.
    Nor have I.

    mousethief wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    One of my kids is not like the others. She got her start in life up through the first five years on the east side of the Mississippi. She refers to carbonated drinks as "soda." The other three have lived nearly all their lives west of the Mississippi. They refer to those drinks as "pop."

    This has, of course, been studied.
    Yes. Of course, things are changing. My kids picked up “soda” from TV (and maybe from friends at school whose parents were from Away) even though they certainly never heard “soda” at home.

  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited April 2020
    I always like the French Pompes Funèbre. I know it just means 'funeral services' but it suggests winding cortèges and plumed horses.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Lyda wrote: »
    I don't know but in the US apple cider is not alcoholic unless it's "hard".

    Whereas here in Australia I'd expect all "cider" to be alcoholic. You'd have to specify non-alcoholic cider.

    No doubt various Australian travellers in the USA have been deeply disappointed when they've ordered a cider and got some kind of fruity soft drink.

  • mousethief wrote: »
    Why do north Americans talk about "funeral services", plural, when the rest of us use the singular for the same singular event? I asked a minister and he had no idea either.

    I've never heard "funeral services" used for a single service.

    Around here (southern Ontario) you'll see it all the time in death notices and obituaries. Perhaps it's a regional usage, but I've seen it elsewhere, too.

    I just checked the obit of a friend who died in Montreal, which states that, "Les funérailles auront lieu le 02 juin..." (The funerals will take place on the 2nd of June...) so a form of it is used in Québec too. I've only ever seen it in print; never in conversation. Perhaps it's a newspaper convention. Not really important - just a curiosity.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Why do north Americans talk about "funeral services", plural, when the rest of us use the singular for the same singular event? I asked a minister and he had no idea either.

    I've never heard "funeral services" used for a single service.

    Around here (southern Ontario) you'll see it all the time in death notices and obituaries. Perhaps it's a regional usage, but I've seen it elsewhere, too.
    Usually it is just "funeral", and I've never heard the term "death notice". Obituary or obit for short. (Though some of my friends call them the older adult sports pages, which record only the losses.)
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited April 2020
    That's been a real change since I was a teenager - you bought Mountain Maid cider at the local shops and milk bars where you bought other soft drinks. Later on, alcoholic cider became available, and the Mountain Maid first put Non-Alcoholic on its labels in large characters, then changed to juice. I don't remember seeing it at all for the last 30 years. It may still be around, just than I've not been where it's sold. It was a clear drink, about the colour of dry ginger ale, and very unlike the apple juice you buy now.

    From memory, the Mountain Maid used boast its use of Tasmanian apples on the labels.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Funeral serv ices - one at church, one at the crematorium perhaps???
  • john holdingjohn holding Ecclesiantics Host, Mystery Worshipper Host
    If you're talking about Canada (and maybe the US), I've never heard of a service at the crematorium. Crematoriums are entirely utilitarian facilities that take delivery of bodies in caskets and reduce them to ashes without any attendant ritual or the presence of any person. Bodies are cremated before or after a service of some sort (or indeed without a service). The service, if there is one, is normally held at a "funeral home" -- which will be a separate facility from any crematorium. There may or may not be clergy involved. More rarely, there will be a service in a church.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    I don't know but in the US apple cider is not alcoholic unless it's "hard".

    Whereas here in Australia I'd expect all "cider" to be alcoholic. You'd have to specify non-alcoholic cider.

    No doubt various Australian travellers in the USA have been deeply disappointed when they've ordered a cider and got some kind of fruity soft drink.
    Not a fruity soft drink. More like (sometimes cloudy) apple juice.

    If you're talking about Canada (and maybe the US), I've never heard of a service at the crematorium. Crematoriums are entirely utilitarian facilities that take delivery of bodies in caskets and reduce them to ashes without any attendant ritual or the presence of any person. Bodies are cremated before or after a service of some sort (or indeed without a service). The service, if there is one, is normally held at a "funeral home" -- which will be a separate facility from any crematorium. There may or may not be clergy involved. More rarely, there will be a service in a church.
    Yes regarding the lack of services or anything at crematoriums (crematoria?) in the US. They don’t happen.

    But in terms of services, there could be the church or funeral home service and the commital service at the cemetery.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I was talking of Oz, where on occasions there are additional services at the graveside or chapel for cremations. FWIW, there are very few funerals held in churches these days. It's a very non-scientific method, but I read the death notices each day. Some detail a church service and the majority of those are Catholic. My experience is that it's pretty rare for there to be a separate service at the crematorium/graveside.

    Most notices refer to a service at the cemetery/crematorium (most provide both). Those places have non-religious chapels, and if there is a cremation, the coffin slides out from there. On the increasing rare occasion of a burial, there will be a short procession to the graveside where a further short service may be held.

    Over 75% of weddings are civil these days and my impression is that the figure is about the same for funerals.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    I beg to differ, @Nick Tamen . Both of my parents had short services at the crematorium, as well as their regular funeral services. My father in particular, that's where there was the military guard and folding the flag and presenting it to my mother. There was also a short religious bit as well.
  • NicoleMR wrote: »
    I beg to differ, @Nick Tamen . Both of my parents had short services at the crematorium, as well as their regular funeral services.
    Interesting. Thanks for that. I should always be mindful that the US is a big place and things can be done differently in various parts of the country.

    Here (NC), the crematorium is, as @john holding said for Canada, totally utilitarian. The ashes are returned to the family in time to be present at the funeral, if that’s what the family desires. Many churches have small funeral palls to cover the box or urn containing the ashes. If there are to be military honors, that generally happens at the cemetery, or at the columbarium as might be the case.

    Church funerals are still common here. I’ve been to many funerals in my lifetime, and I can count on one hand the ones that were not in a church. (That, of course, is partially due to the circles I move in.) And funerals in the funeral home chapel are often still religious, presided over by ministers. But I expect this will change some, as many people aren’t connected to a church these days.

    Graveside (including columbarium) services are also pretty universal. They are short, but there are Scripture readings, prayers and committal of the deceased. Sometimes (as for my grandparents and my parents) they are before the church service and are mainly for family and close friends. You go from the cemetery to the church. Sometimes they’re immediately after the church or funeral home service, and everybody goes from the service to the cemetery. And sometimes, especially if the deceased was cremated and/or is being buried or interred somewhere distant from where the service was, the burial or internment happens later, maybe weeks or months later, again with mainly family and close friends attending.

  • mousethief wrote: »
    Why do north Americans talk about "funeral services", plural, when the rest of us use the singular for the same singular event? I asked a minister and he had no idea either.

    I've never heard "funeral services" used for a single service.

    Around here (southern Ontario) you'll see it all the time in death notices and obituaries. Perhaps it's a regional usage, but I've seen it elsewhere, too.
    Usually it is just "funeral", and I've never heard the term "death notice". Obituary or obit for short. (Though some of my friends call them the older adult sports pages, which record only the losses.)

    There's usually a clear distinction between the two. A death notice is just that - a brief paid newspaper announcement that someone has died. An obituary is the condensed story of a person's life, some of them being considerable works of biographical journalism. Though to be fair, some paid announcements ramble on, listing every cat and dog the departed ever owned.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    There's usually a clear distinction between the two. A death notice is just that - a brief paid newspaper announcement that someone has died. An obituary is the condensed story of a person's life, some of them being considerable works of biographical journalism. Though to be fair, some paid announcements ramble on, listing every cat and dog the departed ever owned.

    That's the usage here.
  • My other half's funeral was in church: lots of music, panegyric, etc. The only people at the crematorium afterwards were me, her daughter's husband and the priest. No music, just final commendation.

    Similarly the notice in the paper just gave details of her, us, funeral arrangements and charity for donations.
  • I've been watching a lot of old clips on YouTube, and a very dated pond difference has struck me. American wrestling came with a lot of back story, about how much the fighters hated each other and wanted to cause permanent injury. The British stuff tended to be two blokes fighting hard but appreciating each other; you could imagine them sharing a pint afterwards.

    As I said, I'm describing something that happened 40 years ago, roughly. My impression is that the "American style" has taken over here now, but I'm not up to date. (And I am aware that both styles were fixed; I find it interesting that they presented themselves differently.)
  • My other half's funeral was in church: lots of music, panegyric, etc. The only people at the crematorium afterwards were me, her daughter's husband and the priest. No music, just final commendation.

    Similarly the notice in the paper just gave details of her, us, funeral arrangements and charity for donations.

    I do a fair number like that as well, just the committal at the crematorium. But that is at least partly because the crem is a 100 mile round trip which is difficult for then whole village to makes, so the service is in the church first. But people who live closer to the crem, or those who don’t expect much of a turn out and want cremation, not burial, often just have the full service at the crem (and I am lucky that our “local” once gives hour long slots. I have officiated in places which give only 30 minutes and 10 of them are for going in and out).

    But in the USA, where I was living when I took my first funerals, church funerals were nearly always for those who had live church connection, and not even all of them; and the most common location for the service, religious or not, was the undertaker’s chapel. Then on the crem or cemetery, sometimes with no one attending.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    edited April 2020
    Our local gives you a half-hour slot which includes the 5 minutes for getting out before the next family - who they want to start coming in 5 minutes before their slot time - so in reality you have 20 minutes tops for everything. That is the basic which will cost you just over £1,000 before you even think of the fees charged by the undertaker. There are longer slots available but they cost more, same for a Saturday cremation.

    Of our local undertakers, most belong to either Dignity in Dying or the Co-Operative: both are way more expensive for a "basic" funeral than the independents, and the mark-up* they put on things like Orders of Service, flowers, putting notices in the local paper, etc, are frightening.

    So much so that before The Virus took over all of our lives our church was in the process of drawing up an "approved" funeral plan with one of our local indepdent undertakers. We're still trying to get it sorted out by using emails only.

    *an additional 200% for printing, etc, is not uncommon.
  • My other half's funeral was in church: lots of music, panegyric, etc. The only people at the crematorium afterwards were me, her daughter's husband and the priest. No music, just final commendation.

    Similarly the notice in the paper just gave details of her, us, funeral arrangements and charity for donations.

    Orthodoxy forbids cremation except where it's required by law, so it's burial for us, with a second service. Nothing like as long or elaborate as the funeral in the temple (church) however.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Orthodoxy forbids cremation except where it's required by law, so it's burial for us, with a second service. Nothing like as long or elaborate as the funeral in the temple (church) however.

    Strictly the burial is not a separate service but the completion of the funeral. It presupposes that the burial ground is within a short walk from the church.

    Note also that the Orthodox funeral service actually begins in the home of the deceased before moving to the church.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Funeral Services--usually involve two services. 1) In the church or funeral home and then 2) the committal service at the place of burial. They are not one and the same. We had a memorial service many years ago for my father. My brother has his ashes. Once my mother dies we will likely have a memorial service for her as well; then, later, we will commit their ashes at their most favorite camping area.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    @mousethief and @Ex_Organist do all Orthodox disinter the deceased after 5 or 7 years and retain just the bones in a box in charnel house, or is that a specifically Greek custom?

    It goes very much against English practice, where once a body is in the ground, especially if the ground is consecrated and subject to ecclesiastical law, that's it. It's virtually impossible to get permission to disinter it for any cause or reason whatsoever.

  • Enoch wrote: »
    @mousethief and @Ex_Organist do all Orthodox disinter the deceased after 5 or 7 years and retain just the bones in a box in charnel house, or is that a specifically Greek custom?

    To the best of my knowledge that is essentially a Greek custom, related to the lack of burial space in Greece. It is certainly not done in Russia, nor, as far as I am aware, by Greeks in UK.
  • Note also that the Orthodox funeral service actually begins in the home of the deceased before moving to the church.

    I have never experienced that, and I have probably been to a dozen Orthodox funerals. I have also held vigil reading psalms over the dead during the middle of the night—at the church.

    I have to assume the walk-to-church thing works better when you're in some tiny Greek village where nobody lives more than 2 miles from church. In the diaspora, not so well.
  • The only place I've heard about digging up bones has been Athos, although there are charnel houses across eastern Europe, such as this one.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Around Jerusalem, at the time of Jesus, bodies were buried in limestone caves. The acid from the limestone would eat away the body. After a year, the family would return to the cave and collect the bones, putting them in an ossuary. The cave would then be reused.

    I think it is quite common for the remains of a body in New Orleans to be removed after two years and the coffin is destroyed, leaving the tomb ready for the next body--the tombs stay within the family.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Around Jerusalem, at the time of Jesus, bodies were buried in limestone caves. The acid from the limestone would eat away the body. After a year, the family would return to the cave and collect the bones, putting them in an ossuary. The cave would then be reused.

    I believe that's why the Gospel of John makes a point of saying "a new tomb in which no one had ever been laid." (NRSV)
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