Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    @Gramps49 I loved watching the videos you linked to! (Never used the words scallion or spring onion. They were always called stinkers in our house, or green onions!)

    It was this prestigious website where I first read the term "ass hat". Surprisingly, Daughter-Unit had heard the term long before I did. I had assumed (and am willing to be told otherwise) that this term came from the eastern side of the Pond. :wink:
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I loved it when Fr Jack shouted out "Arse Biscuits!" in Father Ted*

    This was because I have never worked out why it was as funny as it was.

    *90s Irish situation comedy, m'lud.
  • @Orfeo, yes you're right, I didn't mention the Scandinavian influence.

    I thought about that last night when catching up with a Norwegian 'Scandi-noir' crime drama on BBC i-Player.

    One of the characters used a word for playing that sounded like 'lecking' - similar to the Yorkshire dialect word 'laiking' which was still current when I lived up there during the '80s.

    There are still some Danish and other Norse words in northern English dialects as well as within standard English more broadly.

    You are right. I should have included the Danish element.

    Coming back to US English, it doesn't surprise me when CK tells us that there were terms that would generally be considered Americanisms in her native Dorset.

    Nor would it surprise me if the Devonshire 'ass' noted from 1672 had been pronounced more like 'arse' with a long 'a' sound than the way 'ass' is pronounced in contemporary UK English - north and south - with a short 'a'.

    Back in Chaucer's time I suspect 'arse' had a very strong 'r', more like the rolling Scottish r. 'Arrse.'

    This would probably still been quite prominent in Elizabethan times but I suspect had softened by the late 1600s.

    It would be interesting to trace when 'arse' became 'ass' in The New World (as it were).

    I've heard it said that the speech of the Colonists in 1776 wouldn't have been that different from the English spoken in the British isles. Those with Scottish or Irish heritage would still have sounded like their cousins back across the Atlantic. Those with English heritage would have retained a broadly English way of speaking, although I suspect some variations must have begun to develop from the mid-1600s onwards. Heck, despite the thread's title, although we may be two nations divided by a common language, it's not as if we are mutually unintelligible even now.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    @Gramps49 I can answer your question about why 'aubergine' comes from French, though I can't answer the one that accompanies it, as to why anyone should call a purple vegetable an 'egg plant'.

    Aubergines don't really grow here. We're slightly too far north. Until about 50 years ago, you didn't see them in the markets. I'd never seen one until I travelled in southern Europe in the mid-sixties. People first met them on holiday on the continent and decided they'd like to have them at home. I suppose they could have chosen whatever is the Spanish or Italian for them but France is the nearest country they could come from. Besides, French is proud of its gastronomic reputation and fashionable for it. So if you're looking for a foreign word to give to something that you might want to encourage people to think of as a delicacy and worth paying for, there's always been a tendency to choose what the French call it. Likewise, I suppose 'courgette', though that's odder as they're little marrows which is a vegetable that has always been grown here.

    But why 'egg plant'. I share the puzzlement of the millennials in the youtubes.

    I was slightly intrigued about 'scallions' for spring onions as I thought that was an Irish expression for them.


    On the Danish influence on English, I was told once that this was an important reason why English verbs don't change their endings as much as, say, French or German ones do. Apparently, or so it was alleged, often the root words in Anglo-Saxon and Viking were the same but the endings were different. People found they could still understand each other if they spoke in a slovenly way and dropped the endings. So this became a habit.

    I've no idea if this is true.

  • IMHO the white ones look like eggs peeping through the leaves.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    The OED says that the name was first given to the white variety, then became attached to the purple. First known use in print, a gardening book from 1767.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Wikipedia has a very interesting article on this fruit (actually a berry). Goes into detail about the origin of the names. "Aubergines" not actually French but a derivative of the Arabic bāḏinjān (Arabic: باذنجان‎). The article also shows some examples of white eggplant.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    "Meet" and "meet with" have different meanings, or can. I can meet you at the coffee shop -- we bump into each other accidentally. Or I can meet with you -- we sit down and go over business together.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    And then there’s “meet up,” as in “Let’s meet up at the coffee shop,” meaning we’ll get together at the coffee shop to then go wherever else we’re going.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    mousethief wrote: »
    "Meet" and "meet with" have different meanings, or can. I can meet you at the coffee shop -- we bump into each other accidentally. Or I can meet with you -- we sit down and go over business together.
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    And then there’s “meet up,” as in “Let’s meet up at the coffee shop,” meaning we’ll get together at the coffee shop to then go wherever else we’re going.

    Yes -- to all three meanings.

    There's also another meaning, as when something meets the criteria, for instance.

    Then there's the noun, as in track meet or Shipmeet!
  • A courgette is a zucchini to us. Eggplants get called brinjal, but seldom aubergine in my hearing.

    We eat beets. They're not called "beet root". The tops are "beet greens" and the varieties which are grown for the leaves are called "swiss chard"/

    Turnips are called turnips. The terms rutabaga and swede are not used. I learned that these are all varieties of the same thing only within the past decade.

    Sweet potatoes and yams are different plants.
  • john holdingjohn holding Ecclesiantics Host, Mystery Worshipper Host

    Turnips are called turnips. The terms rutabaga and swede are not used.

    In Saskatoon.

    In part this may be because until recent decades only rutabagas/swedes were known on the prairies (where I grew up), and turnips (the white ones) didn't exist, so far as we knew. But times have changed in most of Canada, and the world has moved on. Certainly in this part of Ontario, white turnips and yellow swedes/rutabagas are labelled and marketted thus.

  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Here, the red root vegetable is a 'beetroot' and the leaves are 'beetroot leaves'. I grumble about shops that sell beetroot with the leaves cut off as they are very tasty. 'Swiss chard' is a different vegetable here. It has red stalks though. 'Beet' used on its own is more likely to refer to sugar beet, which is inedible as a vegetable but widely grown for conversion into sugar. Turnips and swedes are similar root vegetables but different. The word 'rutabaga' is unknown. Swedes are neeps in Scotland.

    A root vegetable I've got very fond of which wasn't much eaten until quite recently is celeriac. That's slightly odd, as I regard celery as a complete waste of time as a vegetable.

    Another relatively recent - to me that is - culinary development is encountering beetroot used in cakes in much the way carrots are. As they're quite sweet, I think that works rather well.

  • Swiss chard comes with red, yellow or white stems, having bought packs with all three included. Most recently all my veggie box Swiss Chard has been white stemmed.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Enoch wrote
    That's slightly odd, as I regard celery as a complete waste of time as a vegetable.

    [tanget alert]

    This reminds me of the time that my wife first tried to put celery in the tuna salad spread she had made for sandwiches. I had grown up with dill pickles in the spread, but not celery. This was about two months into our marriage. We knew the honeymoon was over then.

    Now, after 43 years of marriage, I don't mind it as much.

    {/tangent]
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    The only use I have for raw celery is as a conveyance of pimento cheese.

    Though I should acknowledge celery’s role (with onion and bell pepper) as part of the Holy Trinity of Louisiana Cajun and Creole cooking.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    A courgette is a zucchini to us. Eggplants get called brinjal, but seldom aubergine in my hearing.

    We eat beets. They're not called "beet root". The tops are "beet greens" and the varieties which are grown for the leaves are called "swiss chard"/

    Turnips are called turnips. The terms rutabaga and swede are not used. I learned that these are all varieties of the same thing only within the past decade.

    Sweet potatoes and yams are different plants.
    . Turnips are turnips and swedes are swedes. Zucchini and eggplant are called just that. None of this courgette and aubergine business. Mot beet root, but beetroot, the one word. Things get difficult with green leaves. There is spinach (really a variety of chard) and english spinach (the European variety). - and lots of other leaves these days brought by more recent arrivals, giving a variety our grandparents did not think existed.

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Around here, Swede doesn’t mean anything other than a person from Sweden.

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Around here, Swede doesn’t mean anything other than a person from Sweden.

    Ditto. And Zucchinis are only courgettes in British books and news outlets; same for eggplants and "aubergines". And I had never heard the name "brinjal." Swiss chard and beet greens are two different plants. Both tasty.

    There's an old saw about how northerners eat the beets (roots) and throw the greens away, while southerners eat the greens and feed the beets (roots) to the pigs.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    The only use I have for raw celery is as a conveyance of pimento cheese.

    Though I should acknowledge celery’s role (with onion and bell pepper) as part of the Holy Trinity of Louisiana Cajun and Creole cooking.

    Oh yes! A lovely thing. (guess how we cook, much of the time?)
  • Something completely different. How on earth did we end up with a kerb on one side of the Atlantic and a curb on the other? (A lot of stores are offering curbside delivery around here at the moment).
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Something completely different. How on earth did we end up with a kerb on one side of the Atlantic and a curb on the other? (A lot of stores are offering curbside delivery around here at the moment).

    In Britain does one kerb one's appetite or curb one's appetite?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Celery is also a useful garnish for a Bloody Mary cocktail.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Celery is also a useful garnish for a Bloody Mary cocktail.

    A sentence worthy of inclusion in a phrasebook for travellers.
  • @mousethief we curb our appetites, and use curb as a verb. I'm in the UK.

    Kerb is the side of the road, usually paved, giving kerbside deliveries. Locally there are various roads without kerbs that aren't a lot of fun to walk, but the footpaths across the fields don't connect without some walking some sections of road.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Apparently 'curb' is the older form, and both senses have the same ultimate origin (presumably because they both involve a border on things). For some reason 'kerb' took hold as a variant.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I'd use curb as a verb. It is also a noun - his actions were a curb on mob violence. I've only ever seen kerb as a noun to describe the side of a road (although from memory in the US it can also be used to mean the footpath/sidewalk).
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    (although from memory in the US it can also be used to mean the footpath/sidewalk).
    Having lived in the U.S. my entire life, in different parts of the country, I've only heard it used to describe the edging of the road, usually made of concrete. If there is a sidewalk, the curb separates it from the street.
  • "Curb" does exist in American English in the sense "curb your dog" or "The Law of God is a curb on the sinful nature..." etc. (Luther's Small Catechism)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Often times, on what we call blue highways (not primary roads in the US) we will see signs saying "No Curbs," meaning other than maybe an unpaved strip along the highway, there is nothing to keep the car on the straight and narrow as it were. The next worse warning is "No shoulders ahead," meaning that unpaved strip is not even there.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Oh road signage can be quite interesting. One of my favourites is "Soft Verges" which can bring to mind all manner of things. I also like "Slow Children Crossing" which can be taken several ways. :grin:
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    'Plant Crossing' is the worrying one. Triffids?
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Is there any family which has not thought that?
  • MMMMMM Shipmate
    Ha! That brings back a childhood memory - whenever we passed a ‘heavy plant crossing’ sign, my dear old dad would say, ‘It’s the giant cabbages again’.

    It might have been mildly amusing once, when I was, well, about 6.

    MMM
  • SparrowSparrow Shipmate
    I saw one once "Hens' eggs drive in here"
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Nice that someone provided a drive-in movie for the eggs!
  • I remember "dead slow children crossing", a big sign in Berkhamsted.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    There's said to be a sign somewhere near Aldershot: 'Beware! Tanks and children crossing'.
  • I'm always a fan of the annual "Sod Today!" sign that appears at the local DIY store / garden center.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Years ago, while traveling in England, we drove past a sign that said "Boot Sale." There seemed to be an awful lots of people there just to buy boots. Then the light dawned...

  • I'm always a fan of the annual "Sod Today!" sign that appears at the local DIY store / garden center.

    You must live near me. I pass this every day on the way home from work.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I loved it when Fr Jack shouted out "Arse Biscuits!"

    This was because I
    I'm always a fan of the annual "Sod Today!" sign that appears at the local DIY store / garden center.

    You must live near me. I pass this every day on the way home from work.

    That wouldn't work here. We know what sod is, if we think about it, but we'd call it turf when sold for, e.g., laying a lawn.
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    A butcher's shop near me had a sign in the window' beef mince, lamb mince, pet mince'. I was tempted to go in and ask what sort of pets they had minced up.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Olive oil, sunflower oil, baby oil...
  • A friend once saw a sign in a market in Yorkshire which said 'Dutch Caps'.

    It was short for 'capsicums' of course, a term you don't hear much these days, as 'red peppers' or 'green papers' or 'yellow peppers' seem to have become the norm. This was over 30 years ago.

    Thanks to the BBC's Country File, I know now that there are vast greenhouses (glasshouses) in the Leigh Valley, London's green lung, growing these things for us but we still import many from Holland to meet demand.

    For the uninitiated, in UK English a Dutch Cap is a barrier form of contraception.

  • GG I love the way that predictive text gave you 'green papers' in the midst of all those peppers! :smiley:
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    FYI, GG, 'Lee Valley. I live on the other side of the same county, Hertfordshire. 'Leigh' is a town in Lancashire.
  • Or Lea Valley, as the river is called both. (As someone to the east of the Lea Valley and who's walked it from Ware to the Thames). There's a view point in Epping Forest that looks down over sheets of glass in the valley below near Enfield but there are growing areas up to Nazeing. I worked with a Scicilian boy with learning needs whose father was employed somewhere in those glasshouses.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Leigh, pronounced Lie is also a village in Kent. It has a stoolball team. There is also Leigh-on-Sea in Essex.
    Driving up the Lea Valley, I had the impression that a lot of the market gardens were owned by Italians.
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