I've come across a Canadian phrase, which was something like, "taken to the doctor's" and means "cheated". I can't imagine a link between the two; can anyone elucidate?
When I visited Texas I got on ok for the most part. I did however forget where I was in sandwich shops and kept asking for tomato which lead to baffled looks until my host stepped in and explained that I meant to-may-to.
To my ears both words don't sound that different but id have been left hungry if they hadn't stepped in.
I once asked multiple times for a new spoon in a restaurant, but I had been in Chicago just long enough to pick up the different way of pronouncing it, and the kid at the counter back in Seattle didn't understand it. Finally I exaggeratedly said spooooooooon, and he got it.
In 1964 English author Monica Dickens, the great-granddaughter of Charles Dickens, was visiting Australia to promote a book. During a signing session in Sydney, a woman presented her with one of her books and said “Emma Chisit”. Dickens dutifully wrote “To Emma Chisit” on the inside cover, signed her name. and handed it back. “Naw!” said the woman, “Emma chisit?” After several more rounds of this it dawned on Monica that the woman had asked, in an Australian accent, “How much is it?”
I once asked multiple times for a new spoon in a restaurant, but I had been in Chicago just long enough to pick up the different way of pronouncing it, and the kid at the counter back in Seattle didn't understand it. Finally I exaggeratedly said spooooooooon, and he got it.
My Australian step-daughter did something similar on her first vist to London: she asked for a "spun". Also "marone" for the colour maroon.
I've heard apricot with the short 'a', and I think it must have been in the UK, because it was a long time ago (and I'm not sure I've ever discussed that particular fruit with an American.) But I'd certainly think it an unusual pronunciation.
Of course the French 'abricot' has a short 'a', so that is probably strictly correct. But 'aypricot' is in my experience universal in the UK. Can't have those Frogs telling us how to speak our own language, can we?
Rolling of Hostly eyes @Eirenist: Please remember which board you are on. We don't countenance disparaging names for citizens of other countries, even if used in jest. Looking across the road to see where the Hostly eyes have rolled off to.
Also, @NOprophet_NØprofit your post wasn't particularly Heavenly, either. I'm giving you grace in sympathy with your present grief.
And what about "solicitor"? I've only known it as a type of lawyer, but in the American novel I am currently reading it seems to refer to a door to door salesman.
In North America solicitor can be used to refer to someone who is taking orders for a business or someone who legally represents a client in a court.
Do you know the difference between a lawyer and a solicitor? A lawyer is legally qualified to give legal advice, but not necessarily represent a person in court. A solicitor can give legal advice and represent a person in court.
In North America solicitor can be used to refer to someone who is taking orders for a business or someone who legally represents a client in a court.
Do you know the difference between a lawyer and a solicitor? A lawyer is legally qualified to give legal advice, but not necessarily represent a person in court. A solicitor can give legal advice and represent a person in court.
This may be one of those things that varies from state to state. In a legal context here (North Carolina), “solicitor” was historically mainly limited to reference to a prosecutor—specifically what we’ve called the District Attorney since the 1960s used to be the Solicitor or State Solicitor.
The only context in which I ever hear “solicitor” used in an American legal context is in the title “Solicitor General.” I’ve never heard a lawyer in private practice referred to as a “solicitor.”
We have a unified bar here in Canada - everyone is both a barrister and a solicitor - but in informal usage barristers litigate and advise on matters likely to lead to litigation, whereas solicitors do transactional work (corporate stuff, wills and estates, etc.).
We have a unified bar here in Canada - everyone is both a barrister and a solicitor - but in informal usage barristers litigate and advise on matters likely to lead to litigation, whereas solicitors do transactional work (corporate stuff, wills and estates, etc.).
By and large the position in my State, and in Victoria. There are different professional associations for each branch. I am not sure about the smaller states.
The Attorneys-General are all politicians, with no requirement that they be a lawyer. The Solicitor-General for the Commonwealth, NSW and Victoria is, in each jurisdiction, the second law officer of the Crown. Despite the title, each is a barrister (in fact an eminent barrister), and appears for the government in the most substantial non-criminal cases.
In England and Wales a solicitor is a lawyer who (broadly speaking) deals directly with lay clients, giving advice and acting on their behalf. A barrister is a lawyer who (broadly speaking) deals with lay clients through a solicitor and gives specialist advice and/or acts as their advocate in court. It used to be (maybe still is) the convention that a barrister wouldn’t see a client without a solicitor (or solicitor’s clerk) present.
AFAICT the word attorney in the English legal system is only used for the Attorney General, or in the generic sense of someone appointed to act for another under a power if attorney.
Back in the day, when I was a solicitor, a married couple of American Mormons rented a house a couple of doors down; they were in Scotland for a year on church business. They were perfectly polite saying, Good morning" etc when we passed.
A few weeks in they came up to me and apologised for being unfriendly and for not having stopped to chat to me. "We were told you were a solicitor" they explained "and we had completely the wrong idea about you!"
They saw me going to and from work at 8.30 am and 5.30pm, wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase. I've always wondered what they thought was in that briefcase!
The said that they had also misjudged someone who told them he couldn't stop to speak because he was on his way to the chippy. Apparently they thought a "chippy" was a brothel, and were relieved to discover it was a restaurant which sold fish and chips.
In England and Wales a solicitor is a lawyer who (broadly speaking) deals directly with lay clients, giving advice and acting on their behalf. A barrister is a lawyer who (broadly speaking) deals with lay clients through a solicitor and gives specialist advice and/or acts as their advocate in court. It used to be (maybe still is) the convention that a barrister wouldn’t see a client without a solicitor (or solicitor’s clerk) present.
AFAICT the word attorney in the English legal system is only used for the Attorney General, or in the generic sense of someone appointed to act for another under a power if attorney.
I would never see the lay client without the solicitor present; after all, I was briefed by the solicitor.
As to attorney: until the advent of the fused profession (a fusion which has never worked in practice), people would be admitted as "attorney, solicitor, and proctor"; strictly speaking, solicitor applied in Equity proceedings, attorney in Common Law; and proctor in Probate. Those days are now history.
AFAICT the word attorney in the English legal system is only used for the Attorney General, or in the generic sense of someone appointed to act for another under a power if attorney.
Here, the formal distinction is “attorney-at-law” for someone admitted to the bar, and “attorney-in-fact” for the sense of someone acting under a power of attorney. “Attorney” is assumed to mean attorney-at-law, and is interchangeable with lawyer.
We also have a unified bar in the US. The distinctions suggested by the terms “solicitor” and “barrister” do not exist here, and with the few exceptions I noted above for “solicitor,” neither term is used. The only other term that might be used is “counsellor” (or “counsel,” which is how lawyers are generally addressed in court); my license states that I am licensed as “Attorney and Counsellor at Law.” (Yes, there are two lls in “Counsellor.”)
We have a unified bar here in Canada - everyone is both a barrister and a solicitor - but in informal usage barristers litigate and advise on matters likely to lead to litigation, whereas solicitors do transactional work (corporate stuff, wills and estates, etc.).
The Attorneys-General are all politicians, with no requirement that they be a lawyer. The Solicitor-General for the Commonwealth, NSW and Victoria is, in each jurisdiction, the second law officer of the Crown. Despite the title, each is a barrister (in fact an eminent barrister), and appears for the government in the most substantial non-criminal cases.
I used to think that the AG absolutely had to be a lawyer, until it was pointed out to me that a non-lawyer served in the position in Ontario as recently as the early 1990s. That strikes me as a very bad idea. It's very rare that an AG will appear personally in Court; I believe it's happened within recent memory, but I can't think of a specific case. Practically speaking, the Solicitor General position where it exists has to do with police and jails and the like; a number of governments have re-named the position to something more descriptive though the most recent government reverted back to "Solicitor General" from "Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services." It's all a question of what they want on their letterhead...
In England and Wales a solicitor is a lawyer who (broadly speaking) deals directly with lay clients, giving advice and acting on their behalf. A barrister is a lawyer who (broadly speaking) deals with lay clients through a solicitor and gives specialist advice and/or acts as their advocate in court. It used to be (maybe still is) the convention that a barrister wouldn’t see a client without a solicitor (or solicitor’s clerk) present.
Some high-end litigation firms here use the word "Barristers" in their firm name to emphasize that litigation is all they do. But practically speaking a lot of what they do is stuff that would probably be considered solicitor work in the UK. It doesn't happen the other way around. Generically, we tend to be uninventive and generically call people licensed to practice law lawyers, or in professional settings "counsel" (singular or plural, no article).
For the sweet almond confection, I quite like Shakespeare's word "marchpane". I forget which play.
Romeo and Juliet, I,5:
Away with the joint-stools, remove the
court-cupboard, look to the plate. Good thou, save
me a piece of marchpane; and, as thou lovest me, let
the porter let in Susan Grindstone and Nell.
Antony, and Potpan!
We have a unified bar here in Canada - everyone is both a barrister and a solicitor - but in informal usage barristers litigate and advise on matters likely to lead to litigation, whereas solicitors do transactional work (corporate stuff, wills and estates, etc.).
The Attorneys-General are all politicians, with no requirement that they be a lawyer. The Solicitor-General for the Commonwealth, NSW and Victoria is, in each jurisdiction, the second law officer of the Crown. Despite the title, each is a barrister (in fact an eminent barrister), and appears for the government in the most substantial non-criminal cases.
I used to think that the AG absolutely had to be a lawyer, until it was pointed out to me that a non-lawyer served in the position in Ontario as recently as the early 1990s. That strikes me as a very bad idea. It's very rare that an AG will appear personally in Court; I believe it's happened within recent memory, but I can't think of a specific case. Practically speaking, the Solicitor General position where it exists has to do with police and jails and the like; a number of governments have re-named the position to something more descriptive though the most recent government reverted back to "Solicitor General" from "Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services." It's all a question of what they want on their letterhead...
I can't speak of other jurisdictions here, but can't remember the last time the NSW Attorney-General was not a lawyer, although many have been solicitors rather than barristers. It's just that there is no requirement that the A-G be a lawyer.
The Solicitor-General would not be too concerned with police and gaols; they are separate government portfolios. The holder of that office would be appearing in the most important civil and constitutional cases. In any event, the Director of Public Prosecutions is the one concerned with the criminal side (for serious crimes), with ultimate responsibility for the work of the Solicitor for Public Prosecutions and those employed in that office, as well as for Crown Prosecutors, who are the barristers who appear in the superior criminal courts.
Comments
Thanks, now I'm going to have that stupid song stuck in my head all evening.
To my ears both words don't sound that different but id have been left hungry if they hadn't stepped in.
In 1964 English author Monica Dickens, the great-granddaughter of Charles Dickens, was visiting Australia to promote a book. During a signing session in Sydney, a woman presented her with one of her books and said “Emma Chisit”. Dickens dutifully wrote “To Emma Chisit” on the inside cover, signed her name. and handed it back. “Naw!” said the woman, “Emma chisit?” After several more rounds of this it dawned on Monica that the woman had asked, in an Australian accent, “How much is it?”
Colloquially, a "slam dunk" means a "sure thing."
That's because you don't have to wipe up the counter.
My Australian step-daughter did something similar on her first vist to London: she asked for a "spun". Also "marone" for the colour maroon.
I've just been struck by an American (not sure what region) pronouncing it with a really short "a". Whereas I use a longer "ay" sound.
First attested to in the 1670s, apparently. Possibly to be more consistent with bee, cee, dee etc.
Marzipan is another. Martz-i-pan for me. I hear Mars-i-pan.
@Eirenist: Please remember which board you are on. We don't countenance disparaging names for citizens of other countries, even if used in jest.
Looking across the road to see where the Hostly eyes have rolled off to.
Also, @NOprophet_NØprofit your post wasn't particularly Heavenly, either. I'm giving you grace in sympathy with your present grief.
jedijudy
Heaven Host
I first heard the short ‘a’ version in ‘You’re So Vain’ so evidently it is a US pronunciation, or at least in Carly Simon’s neck of the woods.
Talking of pronunciation in songs, Faith Hill’s ‘This Kiss’ talks about ‘cen-TRIF-u-gal motion’ whereas I would say ‘centri-FEW-gal’.
Attested to in Britain?
Meanwhile, the accent in “centrifugal” is on the second syllable, and for “marzipan,” one usually hears “mar-tzi-pan,” but sometimes “mar-zi-pan.”
Do you know the difference between a lawyer and a solicitor? A lawyer is legally qualified to give legal advice, but not necessarily represent a person in court. A solicitor can give legal advice and represent a person in court.
The only context in which I ever hear “solicitor” used in an American legal context is in the title “Solicitor General.” I’ve never heard a lawyer in private practice referred to as a “solicitor.”
By and large the position in my State, and in Victoria. There are different professional associations for each branch. I am not sure about the smaller states.
The Attorneys-General are all politicians, with no requirement that they be a lawyer. The Solicitor-General for the Commonwealth, NSW and Victoria is, in each jurisdiction, the second law officer of the Crown. Despite the title, each is a barrister (in fact an eminent barrister), and appears for the government in the most substantial non-criminal cases.
AFAICT the word attorney in the English legal system is only used for the Attorney General, or in the generic sense of someone appointed to act for another under a power if attorney.
A very old joke, perhaps even older than ?
A few weeks in they came up to me and apologised for being unfriendly and for not having stopped to chat to me. "We were told you were a solicitor" they explained "and we had completely the wrong idea about you!"
They saw me going to and from work at 8.30 am and 5.30pm, wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase. I've always wondered what they thought was in that briefcase!
The said that they had also misjudged someone who told them he couldn't stop to speak because he was on his way to the chippy. Apparently they thought a "chippy" was a brothel, and were relieved to discover it was a restaurant which sold fish and chips.
Maybe they’d had advice like Gerard Hoffnung’s advice for tourists in London (begins at about 5'15")
I would never see the lay client without the solicitor present; after all, I was briefed by the solicitor.
As to attorney: until the advent of the fused profession (a fusion which has never worked in practice), people would be admitted as "attorney, solicitor, and proctor"; strictly speaking, solicitor applied in Equity proceedings, attorney in Common Law; and proctor in Probate. Those days are now history.
We also have a unified bar in the US. The distinctions suggested by the terms “solicitor” and “barrister” do not exist here, and with the few exceptions I noted above for “solicitor,” neither term is used. The only other term that might be used is “counsellor” (or “counsel,” which is how lawyers are generally addressed in court); my license states that I am licensed as “Attorney and Counsellor at Law.” (Yes, there are two lls in “Counsellor.”)
I used to think that the AG absolutely had to be a lawyer, until it was pointed out to me that a non-lawyer served in the position in Ontario as recently as the early 1990s. That strikes me as a very bad idea. It's very rare that an AG will appear personally in Court; I believe it's happened within recent memory, but I can't think of a specific case. Practically speaking, the Solicitor General position where it exists has to do with police and jails and the like; a number of governments have re-named the position to something more descriptive though the most recent government reverted back to "Solicitor General" from "Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services." It's all a question of what they want on their letterhead...
Some high-end litigation firms here use the word "Barristers" in their firm name to emphasize that litigation is all they do. But practically speaking a lot of what they do is stuff that would probably be considered solicitor work in the UK. It doesn't happen the other way around. Generically, we tend to be uninventive and generically call people licensed to practice law lawyers, or in professional settings "counsel" (singular or plural, no article).
Romeo and Juliet, I,5:
I can't speak of other jurisdictions here, but can't remember the last time the NSW Attorney-General was not a lawyer, although many have been solicitors rather than barristers. It's just that there is no requirement that the A-G be a lawyer.
The Solicitor-General would not be too concerned with police and gaols; they are separate government portfolios. The holder of that office would be appearing in the most important civil and constitutional cases. In any event, the Director of Public Prosecutions is the one concerned with the criminal side (for serious crimes), with ultimate responsibility for the work of the Solicitor for Public Prosecutions and those employed in that office, as well as for Crown Prosecutors, who are the barristers who appear in the superior criminal courts.
Yes.
I wasn't telling a joke I was making an observation.
jj-HH