Dammit. I don't want to wake the thread up just as it was dozing off, but yes, that is exactly my concern. Those offering spiritual direction should not be partial.
You keep saying that, but I haven’t seen any reason other than “I don’t think that’s how it ought to be.” I wonder if you really understand how spiritual direction works or why people seek it.
It seems to me that what matters is that people seeking spiritual direction are able to find someone who meets their needs.
You keep saying that, but I haven’t seen any reason other than “I don’t think that’s how it ought to be.” I wonder if you really understand how spiritual direction works or why people seek it.
It seems to me that what matters is that people seeking spiritual direction are able to find someone who meets their needs.
Okay, I accept that as someone who has moved from agnosticism/disinterest to atheism and then to atheism with a mild interest in numenism my understanding of spirituality and spiritual direction is limited.
But I would assume that it starts with someone who is either within or with out an established form of spirituality feeling that their spiritual needs are not being met in some way they don't fully understand. They would then go to a spiritual director who would talk to them and find out what it is they need and direct them to a form of spirituality likely to address that need.
It's basically like going to a doctor when you feel unwell and the doctor diagnosing the problem and giving you the right medication so you get well again.
But I would assume that it starts with someone who is either within or with out an established form of spirituality feeling that their spiritual needs are not being met in some way they don't fully understand. They would then go to a spiritual director who would talk to them and find out what it is they need and direct them to a form of spirituality likely to address that need.
In my experience, that assumption isn’t accurate. It starts with someone wanting to deepen their spiritual life who is looking for guidance on how to do that, or with someone who is facing a significant question or decision (like “what should I be doing with my life”), who wants the guidance of someone experienced in spiritual practices that can help them explore and discern the answers to such questions.
Rarely in my experience is it “I want to be spiritual, but I don’t know what brand of religion would be the best fit for me.”
In my experience, that assumption isn’t accurate. It starts with someone wanting to deepen their spiritual life who is looking for guidance on how to do that, or with someone who is facing a significant question or decision (like “what should I be doing with my life”), who wants the guidance of someone experienced in spiritual practices that can help them explore and discern the answers to such questions.
Rarely in my experience is it “I want to be spiritual, but I don’t know what brand of religion would be the best fit for me.”
Okay, for the first example you give a spiritual adviser operating within a belief/spiritual tradition is fine as I assume the person asking wants to deepen their faith within their existing tradition.
With questions like “what should I be doing with my life” I think you need someone willing to offer ideas from outside their faith system. Become a monk, follow Wicca, write a novel, or start a company offering men's toiletries and grooming products are equally valid answers to that question.
In my experience, that assumption isn’t accurate. It starts with someone wanting to deepen their spiritual life who is looking for guidance on how to do that, or with someone who is facing a significant question or decision (like “what should I be doing with my life”), who wants the guidance of someone experienced in spiritual practices that can help them explore and discern the answers to such questions.
Rarely in my experience is it “I want to be spiritual, but I don’t know what brand of religion would be the best fit for me.”
Okay, for the first example you give a spiritual adviser operating within a belief/spiritual tradition is fine as I assume the person asking wants to deepen their faith within their existing tradition.
With questions like “what should I be doing with my life” I think you need someone willing to offer ideas from outside their faith system. Become a monk, follow Wicca, write a novel, or start a company offering men's toiletries and grooming products are equally valid answers to that question.
"Once more with feeling...."
Spiritual direction in my experience is NOT about telling people about what to do!! "Direction" is a historical descriptor and is perhaps not particularly helpful because of how it can perceived and is possibly being perceived by you @Colin Smith ?
A good director will support the directee in exploring their own spiritual life and as @Nick Tamen suggests may well prove a helpful sounding board at key moments in an individual's journey.
But what that entails remains firmly within the remit of the directee.
Within the Christian tradition that will involve the directee's desire to deepen a relationship with God.
But if someone comes to a director from another or no tradition then the director accompanies them in their exploration a far as the director is able to do so.
Direction is about acceptance and skillful questioning to enable someone to go deeper. Occasionally suggestions might be made about something to do or read which might be helpful but that is NOT the main focus.
But I would assume that it starts with someone who is either within or with out an established form of spirituality feeling that their spiritual needs are not being met in some way they don't fully understand. They would then go to a spiritual director who would talk to them and find out what it is they need and direct them to a form of spirituality likely to address that need.
In my experience, that assumption isn’t accurate. It starts with someone wanting to deepen their spiritual life who is looking for guidance on how to do that, or with someone who is facing a significant question or decision (like “what should I be doing with my life”), who wants the guidance of someone experienced in spiritual practices that can help them explore and discern the answers to such questions.
Rarely in my experience is it “I want to be spiritual, but I don’t know what brand of religion would be the best fit for me.”
A much clearer definition, or set of definitions, of the word 'spiritual' would help a lot, I think.
But I would assume that it starts with someone who is either within or with out an established form of spirituality feeling that their spiritual needs are not being met in some way they don't fully understand. They would then go to a spiritual director who would talk to them and find out what it is they need and direct them to a form of spirituality likely to address that need.
In my experience, that assumption isn’t accurate. It starts with someone wanting to deepen their spiritual life who is looking for guidance on how to do that, or with someone who is facing a significant question or decision (like “what should I be doing with my life”), who wants the guidance of someone experienced in spiritual practices that can help them explore and discern the answers to such questions.
Rarely in my experience is it “I want to be spiritual, but I don’t know what brand of religion would be the best fit for me.”
A much clearer definition, or set of definitions, of the word 'spiritual' would help a lot, I think.
That seems to me like a solution in search of a problem. Or perhaps the problem is trying to stretch the word “spiritual” beyond its traditional meanings.
With questions like “what should I be doing with my life” I think you need someone willing to offer ideas from outside their faith system. Become a monk, follow Wicca, write a novel, or start a company offering men's toiletries and grooming products are equally valid answers to that question.
The dots you’re not connecting—my fault, perhaps—are that people who seek out a spiritual director rather than, say, a counselor or therapist to answer a question like “what should I be doing with my life” are almost always going to be in a faith tradition already, and they’re wanting to approach the question (which, tbh, in such circumstances I often hear phrased as “what is God calling me to do with my life”) in a way that is consistent with and deepens the faith they already have. In other words, they’re seeking out spiritual direction because of the importance that their faith tradition already has for them.
That’s not to say such people may not be open to exploring practices or learning from approaches of other religious traditions. They may well be, and many spiritual directors are comfortable with that and able to help from that perspective. But still, there’s typically going to be more of bringing such practices into one’s already-established approach to and understanding of faith, rather than exploring faith traditions in general.
I realise the reference is perhaps unacceptably Biblical. But the phrase ‘straining at a gnat’ has kept coming to mind, quite consistently,over the last couple of pages.
But I would assume that it starts with someone who is either within or with out an established form of spirituality feeling that their spiritual needs are not being met in some way they don't fully understand. They would then go to a spiritual director who would talk to them and find out what it is they need and direct them to a form of spirituality likely to address that need.
It's basically like going to a doctor when you feel unwell and the doctor diagnosing the problem and giving you the right medication so you get well again.
I see the problem. You don't know what a spiritual director is. It's not a spiritual yellow pages directory service. It's a person to help you deepen into the spiritual community they represent. All your desiring and demanding doesn't change the meaning of the word.
I think that's the insight this tangent was waiting for. Although I'm curious to know what an atheist spiritual director would do. It sounds a bit of an oxymoron.
I don't think anyone here is saying that atheists and agnostics can't and don't have a sense of mystery, the numinous, the aesthetic and what might be called 'spirituality' in the broader sense.
I'd suggest that that's all part of being human - and it's culturally conditioned of course.
Nor, as I understand it, is anyone saying that God does their thinking for them or that we hear 'voices' in our heads or that 'spiritual direction' or whatever we want to call it involves an abandonment of critical faculties or reactions to vatic promptings and impulses.
If I read something about us living in a more 'knowledge-based' society again - as if any society anywhere and at any time wasn't based on some form of knowledge or insight or other - scientically verifiable or otherwise - I shall scream.
Theists may not have a monopoly on 'spirituality', atheists and agnostics don't have a monopoly on knowledge.
I realise the reference is perhaps unacceptably Biblical. But the phrase ‘straining at a gnat’ has kept coming to mind, quite consistently,over the last couple of pages.
Yes - the insects keep getting smaller. And around and around (and around) we go...
But I would assume that it starts with someone who is either within or with out an established form of spirituality feeling that their spiritual needs are not being met in some way they don't fully understand. They would then go to a spiritual director who would talk to them and find out what it is they need and direct them to a form of spirituality likely to address that need.
It's basically like going to a doctor when you feel unwell and the doctor diagnosing the problem and giving you the right medication so you get well again.
I see the problem. You don't know what a spiritual director is. It's not a spiritual yellow pages directory service. It's a person to help you deepen into the spiritual community they represent. All your desiring and demanding doesn't change the meaning of the word.
...If I read something about us living in a more 'knowledge-based' society again - as if any society anywhere and at any time wasn't based on some form of knowledge or insight or other - scientically verifiable or otherwise - I shall scream.
Theists may not have a monopoly on 'spirituality', atheists and agnostics don't have a monopoly on knowledge.
And that's what I'll resist and argue against for the rest of my days!!
Okay, well, since we're still going after this gnat ... I guess my question is, why do you see the label as valuable?
I mean, back when I was an atheist atheist, I would never have wanted it because it jyst seemed a bit fluffy and vague. Ditto when I was a Buddhist atheist; neither I nor anyone I knew used the term, not because we were against it, but because 'Buddhist' seemed to cover the territory and it wasn't clear what the word 'spiritual' would have added.
So: it's not a label I would deny to anyone, at least in part because it doesn't seem all that valuable or useful to me (unless one is talking specifically about the Spiritus Sanctus or similar, where it will gain a quite particular meaning). And it's therefore unclear to me why this would be the particular hill anyone would want to die on. What work, for example, is the word 'spiritual' doing for you that the word 'aesthetic' isn't?
I think that's the insight this tangent was waiting for. Although I'm curious to know what an atheist spiritual director would do. It sounds a bit of an oxymoron.
If I was a witty person, I'd think up a witty reply, but it's hopeless, I can't do it!
So I'll just say lamely that I don't know.
One thing I don't really understand is why there is a distinction between "spiritual director" and ordinary religious officers in the descriptions above.
It seems like one of the roles that a priest, pastor, leader or other pastoral person would have been doing in the past is now given the title "spiritual director". Why is that necessary?
There are spiritual directors in some Buddhist groups, although being an atheist may not be uppermost in their mind. At any rate, I don't see why it necessitates theism. I can't think of any jokes either.
Okay, well, since we're still going after this gnat ... I guess my question is, why do you see the label as valuable?
The word 'valuable' doesn't really come into it, and I agree that it has only come to be rather more widely used since internet communication has become so widespread.
So: it's not a label I would deny to anyone, at least in part because it doesn't seem all that valuable or useful to me (unless one is talking specifically about the Spiritus Sanctus or similar, where it will gain a quite particular meaning). And it's therefore unclear to me why this would be the particular hill anyone would want to die on. What work, for example, is the word 'spiritual' doing for you that the word 'aesthetic' isn't?
Well, nothing really! But I wonder if perhaps there is an implication in the words of faith believers of exclusiveness, or 'specialness' which to me, as an atheist, is unjustified. However, that's probably my imagination and speculation only.
Also, the idea of atheist spirituality is commonly talked about today, see for example, the reception given to Comte-Sponville's book, which used to be called The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality. Sam Harris has also written quite a bit about it.
Then there are the various nondualist traditions, which as noted above, don't advertise their non-theism. I have heard of "non-dual spiritual teachers", anyway no point in labouring the issue.
One thing I don't really understand is why there is a distinction between "spiritual director" and ordinary religious officers in the descriptions above.
It seems like one of the roles that a priest, pastor, leader or other pastoral person would have been doing in the past is now given the title "spiritual director". Why is that necessary?
Some priests etc are spiritual directors. But not all. Then there lay people like me who are also spiritual directors. It is a very distinct thing and should involve proper training and accreditation. Spiritual Direction in the Christian tradition can be found amongst the Early Church Fathers.
God is the destination of the spiritual path. The manifestations of the spiritual are the signs which draw humanity towards divinity.
Tosh. Other destinations are available and for some it's the journey not the end point that matters
That chimes with me. Doing a lot of mediation retreats, we used to joke that you were cured of it, when you didn't think you were meditating. I have arrived at my destination, in other words.
God is the destination of the spiritual path. The manifestations of the spiritual are the signs which draw humanity towards divinity.
Tosh. Other destinations are available and for some it's the journey not the end point that matters
No, we have not forgotten you are an atheist.
But when we're talking about Spiritual Direction in the Christian tradition, nothing that Rublev has said is at all controversial, and far from tosh. Perhaps we might persuade @MrsBeaky to tell us further how she sees her role, and what her practice is?
Also, for all of us, it's the journey. Not just you.
"Once more with feeling...."
Spiritual direction in my experience is NOT about telling people about what to do!! "Direction" is a historical descriptor and is perhaps not particularly helpful because of how it can perceived and is possibly being perceived by you @Colin Smith ?
A good director will support the directee in exploring their own spiritual life and as @Nick Tamen suggests may well prove a helpful sounding board at key moments in an individual's journey.
But what that entails remains firmly within the remit of the directee. Within the Christian tradition that will involve the directee's desire to deepen a relationship with God.
But if someone comes to a director from another or no tradition then the director accompanies them in their exploration a far as the director is able to do so.
Direction is about acceptance and skillful questioning to enable someone to go deeper. Occasionally suggestions might be made about something to do or read which might be helpful but that is NOT the main focus.
Understood. Yes I was assuming 'director' referred to someone actively directing or guiding.
But re the bit I've put in bold, it won't always be the case that someone is looking to deepen their relationship with (the Christian) God. I could easily see a directee wishing to broaden their faith to include practices and beliefs outside Christianity or perhaps even adopt another belief altogether. Some might call that a crisis of faith but it is equally a development of someone's spirituality.
God is the destination of the spiritual path. The manifestations of the spiritual are the signs which draw humanity towards divinity.
Tosh. Other destinations are available and for some it's the journey not the end point that matters
No, we have not forgotten you are an atheist.
But when we're talking about Spiritual Direction in the Christian tradition, nothing that Rublev has said is at all controversial, and far from tosh. Perhaps we might persuade @MrsBeaky to tell us further how she sees her role, and what her practice is?
Also, for all of us, it's the journey. Not just you.
Actually, I wasn't referring to my atheism. I believe that Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, and all other faiths are equally valid destinations. Rublev appears to be implying that they are false destinations and that his God is the only true destination..
But I would assume that it starts with someone who is either within or with out an established form of spirituality feeling that their spiritual needs are not being met in some way they don't fully understand. They would then go to a spiritual director who would talk to them and find out what it is they need and direct them to a form of spirituality likely to address that need.
It's basically like going to a doctor when you feel unwell and the doctor diagnosing the problem and giving you the right medication so you get well again.
I see the problem. You don't know what a spiritual director is. It's not a spiritual yellow pages directory service. It's a person to help you deepen into the spiritual community they represent. All your desiring and demanding doesn't change the meaning of the word.
Okay, so Spiritual Director has a specific meaning within a faith tradition but that meaning is completely different from anything one might deduce from the meaning of the words spiritual and director.. Understood. Thank you.
Yes. Like "Human Resources" I now realise that "Spiritual Director" does not mean what it sounds like it means.
What do you think it sounds like? Some guy you rock up to and after listening carefully says "I think you might be a Mormon, a moon worshipper or a Tibetan Buddhist. I recommend you read this book on talking to angels, this one on praying rosaries and this one on how God is Dead."
Can you seriously not see that this would never work?
God is the destination of the spiritual path. The manifestations of the spiritual are the signs which draw humanity towards divinity.
Tosh. Other destinations are available and for some it's the journey not the end point that matters
No, we have not forgotten you are an atheist.
But when we're talking about Spiritual Direction in the Christian tradition, nothing that Rublev has said is at all controversial, and far from tosh. Perhaps we might persuade @MrsBeaky to tell us further how she sees her role, and what her practice is?
Also, for all of us, it's the journey. Not just you.
I am happy to start by answering any specific questions anyone might have.
But please bear in mind that although I have been seeing a Director for years I have only just been commissioned as one. There are other directors on the Ship with far more experience than I have!
Excellent. I've never talked to a Spiritual Director before, either socially or professionally!
So, as an opening gambit - how do you get your referrals? Do they come from the church you're involved in, or a parachurch organisation (or more prosaically, do you advertise?)
Excellent. I've never talked to a Spiritual Director before, either socially or professionally!
So, as an opening gambit - how do you get your referrals? Do they come from the church you're involved in, or a parachurch organisation (or more prosaically, do you advertise?)
OK here goes.
Best practice as I understand it is not to see a directee that you know already- I know of one director who does see such people but the consensus is not to do so. So seeing someone from one's own church would not be a good idea.
I also know of one director who does advertise as an individual but there are also networks of directors you can join.
I am going to be put on my the register of Directors for my diocese (once they have finished revamping it). That is also where I first found a director for myself.
Interestingly, my own spiritual director told me that she would be happy to refer people from her own church who have requested direction to me once I am up and running.
As with therapy I would personally steer clear of any director who is not part of a supervision group.........
I see. Not bothered, but you will argue against it until you die.
What alternative would you suggest? I'm certainly not going to stop putting in my two-penn'orth in discussion!
I suggest you stop getting offended at other people doing things that you wouldn't do and using terms you wouldn't use.
However long you have left, life is too short to be overly concerned about people doing weird things.
I agree. And I'll just make it clear that:
1. I never, ever take offence at what people write or say; it is not in my character at all.
2. I very much apologise to anyone who has been offended at anything I have written in this thread.
3.
I'm not offended, I guess nobody is. But if you are not offended and are not bothered, then why are you saying that you won't stop pushing your view until you die?
I don't understand. What is so important about atheists insisting that spirituality is not necessarily about belief in a deity?
2. I very much apologise to anyone who has been offended at anything I have written in this thread.
Well, I wasn't offended, as such.
But do you remember that scene in Annie Hall, where the Woody Allen figure is trying to convince his friend that there's an anti-semitic conspiracy against him, because every time somebody says 'Did you ...' to him, it comes out as 'Did jew ...'? Until eventually his friend jyst changes the subject?
It felt like that. Except if that scene had gone on for three days, instead of 30 seconds.
I'm not offended, I guess nobody is. But if you are not offended and are not bothered, then why are you saying that you won't stop pushing your view until you die?
I did not say that I was 'pushing my view', I said 'resist' and 'argue against', both of which seem reasonable approaches. I'm just joining in a discussion; it is a hobby accessible to me and which I find perpetually interesting; can't see any reason not to add my contribution to discussions, since people can easily scroll past.
I don't understand. What is so important about atheists insisting that spirituality is not necessarily about belief in a deity?
As far as I know, atheists in general don't do that. There are organisations which challenge religious influence on society which take on that task..
Do you even believe in a spirit?
Define the spirit to which you refer and I'll tell you whether I believe in it, or rather I will tell you whether or not I believe it - without the preposition in.
Comments
It seems to me that what matters is that people seeking spiritual direction are able to find someone who meets their needs.
Okay, I accept that as someone who has moved from agnosticism/disinterest to atheism and then to atheism with a mild interest in numenism my understanding of spirituality and spiritual direction is limited.
But I would assume that it starts with someone who is either within or with out an established form of spirituality feeling that their spiritual needs are not being met in some way they don't fully understand. They would then go to a spiritual director who would talk to them and find out what it is they need and direct them to a form of spirituality likely to address that need.
It's basically like going to a doctor when you feel unwell and the doctor diagnosing the problem and giving you the right medication so you get well again.
Rarely in my experience is it “I want to be spiritual, but I don’t know what brand of religion would be the best fit for me.”
Okay, for the first example you give a spiritual adviser operating within a belief/spiritual tradition is fine as I assume the person asking wants to deepen their faith within their existing tradition.
With questions like “what should I be doing with my life” I think you need someone willing to offer ideas from outside their faith system. Become a monk, follow Wicca, write a novel, or start a company offering men's toiletries and grooming products are equally valid answers to that question.
"Once more with feeling...."
Spiritual direction in my experience is NOT about telling people about what to do!! "Direction" is a historical descriptor and is perhaps not particularly helpful because of how it can perceived and is possibly being perceived by you @Colin Smith ?
A good director will support the directee in exploring their own spiritual life and as @Nick Tamen suggests may well prove a helpful sounding board at key moments in an individual's journey.
But what that entails remains firmly within the remit of the directee.
Within the Christian tradition that will involve the directee's desire to deepen a relationship with God.
But if someone comes to a director from another or no tradition then the director accompanies them in their exploration a far as the director is able to do so.
Direction is about acceptance and skillful questioning to enable someone to go deeper. Occasionally suggestions might be made about something to do or read which might be helpful but that is NOT the main focus.
A much clearer definition, or set of definitions, of the word 'spiritual' would help a lot, I think.
Fixed incorrect quote code. BroJames Purgatory Host
The dots you’re not connecting—my fault, perhaps—are that people who seek out a spiritual director rather than, say, a counselor or therapist to answer a question like “what should I be doing with my life” are almost always going to be in a faith tradition already, and they’re wanting to approach the question (which, tbh, in such circumstances I often hear phrased as “what is God calling me to do with my life”) in a way that is consistent with and deepens the faith they already have. In other words, they’re seeking out spiritual direction because of the importance that their faith tradition already has for them.
That’s not to say such people may not be open to exploring practices or learning from approaches of other religious traditions. They may well be, and many spiritual directors are comfortable with that and able to help from that perspective. But still, there’s typically going to be more of bringing such practices into one’s already-established approach to and understanding of faith, rather than exploring faith traditions in general.
Beyond that, what @MrsBeaky said.
I see the problem. You don't know what a spiritual director is. It's not a spiritual yellow pages directory service. It's a person to help you deepen into the spiritual community they represent. All your desiring and demanding doesn't change the meaning of the word.
I'd suggest that that's all part of being human - and it's culturally conditioned of course.
Nor, as I understand it, is anyone saying that God does their thinking for them or that we hear 'voices' in our heads or that 'spiritual direction' or whatever we want to call it involves an abandonment of critical faculties or reactions to vatic promptings and impulses.
If I read something about us living in a more 'knowledge-based' society again - as if any society anywhere and at any time wasn't based on some form of knowledge or insight or other - scientically verifiable or otherwise - I shall scream.
Theists may not have a monopoly on 'spirituality', atheists and agnostics don't have a monopoly on knowledge.
Thank you, @mousethief.
Amen, amen, ahhhmen.
Okay, well, since we're still going after this gnat ... I guess my question is, why do you see the label as valuable?
I mean, back when I was an atheist atheist, I would never have wanted it because it jyst seemed a bit fluffy and vague. Ditto when I was a Buddhist atheist; neither I nor anyone I knew used the term, not because we were against it, but because 'Buddhist' seemed to cover the territory and it wasn't clear what the word 'spiritual' would have added.
So: it's not a label I would deny to anyone, at least in part because it doesn't seem all that valuable or useful to me (unless one is talking specifically about the Spiritus Sanctus or similar, where it will gain a quite particular meaning). And it's therefore unclear to me why this would be the particular hill anyone would want to die on. What work, for example, is the word 'spiritual' doing for you that the word 'aesthetic' isn't?
So I'll just say lamely that I don't know.
It seems like one of the roles that a priest, pastor, leader or other pastoral person would have been doing in the past is now given the title "spiritual director". Why is that necessary?
gives faith believers a
Then there are the various nondualist traditions, which as noted above, don't advertise their non-theism. I have heard of "non-dual spiritual teachers", anyway no point in labouring the issue.
I see. Not bothered, but you will argue against it until you die.
What is the spiritual path?
What manifestations of the spirit?
Some priests etc are spiritual directors. But not all. Then there lay people like me who are also spiritual directors. It is a very distinct thing and should involve proper training and accreditation. Spiritual Direction in the Christian tradition can be found amongst the Early Church Fathers.
Tosh. Other destinations are available and for some it's the journey not the end point that matters
That chimes with me. Doing a lot of mediation retreats, we used to joke that you were cured of it, when you didn't think you were meditating. I have arrived at my destination, in other words.
No, we have not forgotten you are an atheist.
But when we're talking about Spiritual Direction in the Christian tradition, nothing that Rublev has said is at all controversial, and far from tosh. Perhaps we might persuade @MrsBeaky to tell us further how she sees her role, and what her practice is?
Also, for all of us, it's the journey. Not just you.
Understood. Yes I was assuming 'director' referred to someone actively directing or guiding.
But re the bit I've put in bold, it won't always be the case that someone is looking to deepen their relationship with (the Christian) God. I could easily see a directee wishing to broaden their faith to include practices and beliefs outside Christianity or perhaps even adopt another belief altogether. Some might call that a crisis of faith but it is equally a development of someone's spirituality.
Actually, I wasn't referring to my atheism. I believe that Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, and all other faiths are equally valid destinations. Rublev appears to be implying that they are false destinations and that his God is the only true destination..
Okay, so Spiritual Director has a specific meaning within a faith tradition but that meaning is completely different from anything one might deduce from the meaning of the words spiritual and director.. Understood. Thank you.
;-)
Yes. Like "Human Resources" I now realise that "Spiritual Director" does not mean what it sounds like it means.
What do you think it sounds like? Some guy you rock up to and after listening carefully says "I think you might be a Mormon, a moon worshipper or a Tibetan Buddhist. I recommend you read this book on talking to angels, this one on praying rosaries and this one on how God is Dead."
Can you seriously not see that this would never work?
I suggest you stop getting offended at other people doing things that you wouldn't do and using terms you wouldn't use.
However long you have left, life is too short to be overly concerned about people doing weird things.
I am happy to start by answering any specific questions anyone might have.
But please bear in mind that although I have been seeing a Director for years I have only just been commissioned as one. There are other directors on the Ship with far more experience than I have!
So, as an opening gambit - how do you get your referrals? Do they come from the church you're involved in, or a parachurch organisation (or more prosaically, do you advertise?)
OK here goes.
Best practice as I understand it is not to see a directee that you know already- I know of one director who does see such people but the consensus is not to do so. So seeing someone from one's own church would not be a good idea.
I also know of one director who does advertise as an individual but there are also networks of directors you can join.
I am going to be put on my the register of Directors for my diocese (once they have finished revamping it). That is also where I first found a director for myself.
Interestingly, my own spiritual director told me that she would be happy to refer people from her own church who have requested direction to me once I am up and running.
As with therapy I would personally steer clear of any director who is not part of a supervision group.........
1. I never, ever take offence at what people write or say; it is not in my character at all.
2. I very much apologise to anyone who has been offended at anything I have written in this thread.
3.
I don't understand. What is so important about atheists insisting that spirituality is not necessarily about belief in a deity?
Do you even believe in a spirit?
Well, I wasn't offended, as such.
But do you remember that scene in Annie Hall, where the Woody Allen figure is trying to convince his friend that there's an anti-semitic conspiracy against him, because every time somebody says 'Did you ...' to him, it comes out as 'Did jew ...'? Until eventually his friend jyst changes the subject?
It felt like that. Except if that scene had gone on for three days, instead of 30 seconds.