Pedantry vs. Humpty-Dumptyism

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  • It's a confined outbreak.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    In speech I'd just say "You wrote who?"

    Except here, NZ and the UK at least (not sure about SA and Canada), the preposition "to" would follow the "wrote" in your sentence.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Is it H&A day?

    It's neither me nor Ross. I leave you to draw your own conclusions...
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Is the misplaced apostrophe deliberate?
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    I'd bet the rent it is.
  • The apostophes (while they lasted) seem to have produced the desired equivalent of the "Papyrus" effect...
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    Is the misplaced apostrophe deliberate?

    I'm certain it is. That bastard host read my mind earlier today when I was thinking they'd missed a trick in not changing the thread titles to something that would wind up pedants. Just seeing it makes me uncomfortable. *twitch*
  • Heh. The apotheosis of the apostrophes becomes the hell of half-assed homonyms.
  • Heh. The apotheosis of the apostrophes becomes the hell of half-assed homonyms.

    The joke's on them - they're not homophones in the dialect I grew up with.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    I just edited it.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Could it be that whoever is playing silly buggers with the thread title put an apostrophe in, pedant's, just to troll? I refuse to countenance the suspicion. Our Hosts and Admins are above such things as we well know.

    So setting aside that supposition...
    Is there an implied noun after pedant's, and if so what is it?

    Or are they doing it simply to challenge KarlLB's theory that whatever people do is in accordance with the grammatical rules of the language?
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    I think that Certain Others are doing it to troll me and make me crazy, as if it's not too late for the latter.
  • The joke's on them - they're not homophones in the dialect I grew up with.
    O.K.

    (once again, xkcd proves to be keeping up pretty well with the Ship).

  • Heh. The apotheosis of the apostrophes becomes the hell of half-assed homonyms.

    The joke's on them - they're not homophones in the dialect I grew up with.

    I view with grave suspicion any suggestion that homophones can change.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    Could it be that whoever is playing silly buggers with the thread title put an apostrophe in, pedant's, just to troll? I refuse to countenance the suspicion. Our Hosts and Admins are above such things as we well know.

    So setting aside that supposition...
    Is there an implied noun after pedant's, and if so what is it?

    Or are they doing it simply to challenge KarlLB's theory that whatever people do is in accordance with the grammatical rules of the language?

    It's probably as deliberate as the misrepresentation of my position.
  • Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation
    by Lynne Truss
    really is a fun book.

    My teachers, even with aggressive red pens, made very little impression on me. I've learned quite a bit from fellow shipmates, though. I remember one time I said something like, "I need to eat less chocolates," and the following poster said something like, "It's fewer! FEWER! If you can count it, you say FEWER, you idiot!" I can't remember who it was, but I remembered it. There's something to be said for aggressive teaching methods.
  • Currently it's Eats, shoots, and, leave's which is making me squirm at the misuse of both comma and apostrophe.
  • In the late 90s I was told I should stop marking in red as students found it intimidating. My reply was that, if red ink was the most intimidating thing about their education, students were escaping remarkably lightly.
  • Re "homonyms" and "homophones":

    I was taught the first term, but I'm seeing the second more and more. Any ideas on why? Is "homophones" maybe something from the UK?

    Thx.

  • They are not the same thing.

    A homonym is where two words are spelled the same way but have different meanings, e.g. page.

    A homophone is where two words are pronounced the same but may be spelled differently: their, they're, there. Unless you are @Arethosemyfeet.
  • Eutychus--

    Thanks for the info. It's quite possible I was taught that in grade school, and have simply forgotten.

    But..

    I did some checking.

    From Writing Explained, "Homonyms vs. Homophones vs. Homographs":
    To sum up,
    -- Homonyms can refer to both homographs and homophones.
    --Homographs are words that are spelled alike but not always pronounced the same.
    --Homophones are words that are pronounced alike but not always spelled the same.

    And from Wikipedia's "Homophone" article, footnote #1:
    According to the strict sense of homonyms as words with the same spelling and pronunciation; however, homonyms according to the loose sense common in nontechnical contexts are words with the same spelling or pronunciation, in which case all homophones are also homonyms. Random House Unabridged Dictionary entry for "homonym" at Dictionary.com

    Both of those articles do explain the strict definitions you stated, but also give an alternate approach.

    FWIW.
  • I spent 20 years at a minor UK university blasting red pen across students' ( :smile: ) lab report submissions, trying to get them each to sound less like a dick, and to care about it. I had some sympathy with them, as my spoken accent is not one associated in the UK with a keen intellect. The point was, if you want to get paid and not look like a dick, don't write like one. This was engineering; no 'I' (who the hell cares what you think) or 'we' (what, did you lack even the confidence to get it wrong with 'I'?), passive voice all the way and no contractions.

    I'm another who went to school in the English-grammar-free 70s and 80s, so if I really needed a grammatical term (rare) I had to import its name from German; it's still occasionally fun to freak people out with terms like 'ablative' which sound very funny in an accent as uneducated as mine. I was always OK at writing, just as a result of being a lonely kid who read a lot; one of my externals summarised my first attempt at a PhD submission with 'but it's very well written' :smile:.

    (Oh, I missed the "amn't" discussions up-thread - still common usage in Dublin English, even amongst my middle-class south-of-the-river in-laws).
  • ECraigR wrote: »
    In all fairness, Ross is a professional critic and thus also a published author. So there’s one on each side.

    Published, here (food, literature, cinema, economics). Standing with the Grammar Valkyrie.
  • Heh. The apotheosis of the apostrophes becomes the hell of half-assed homonyms.

    The joke's on them - they're not homophones in the dialect I grew up with.

    I view with grave suspicion any suggestion that homophones can change.

    My parents thought that my homophonic pronunciations were just a phase... (reaching for my coat)
  • I have a a frequent joke with my students. When they come into class, I ask how they are. Almost invariably, they respond, "I'm good, thanks." When I'm feeling both pedantic and puckish (which is not always), I respond "I'm glad to hear it, I hope you are also well." It's a joke. I do understand the difference between formal and colloquial English. I also believe that is part of my job to teach them the difference between the two.

    But I have to say that I'm beyond tired of a senior colleague prattling on about how good she is a[t] getting students to write "thesises." I've checked, and no English dictionary recognizes that as a valid form of "theses." And most recently, at the end of a very condescending email from my boss, she ordered me to get a report to "x, y, and I" before a certain date. That's neither colloquial nor correct.

    I work in education. I have a strong feeling that both of these people look down on me as under-qualified. And yet, it is they who write like that...

    Perhaps illiteracy is useful for promotion.

  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    RooK wrote: »

    Brilliant. Just added this as required reading to my spring semester students.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    RooK wrote: »
    Second Circle for me...

  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited January 2020
    Ross, "fighting" to choose, decide, and elect to join one of the circle's is literally missing the "point" of "Hell", IYSWIM (besides, "Circle" shouldn't be capitalised in your comment (see seventh circle)) :naughty:
  • Are brackets within brackets permissible?
  • Spot the non-programmer...
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    Spot the non-programmer...

    Or mathematician. Though we try to use different types and sizes of brackets once we start nesting to reduce confusion.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    When we’re talking circles of hell, why is reducing confusion even being considered?
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited January 2020
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Spot the non-programmer...

    Or mathematician. Though we try to use different types and sizes of brackets once we start nesting to reduce confusion.

    Yes. It’s terrible when a mathematician goes all broody, and any interference with the eggs is more than your life’s worth. It’s best to offer a variety of brackets and let them choose the ones they want.

  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Spot the non-programmer...
    C'est moi. Sorry about that!
  • LC--

    LOL!
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    Spot the non-programmer...

    Or mathematician. Though we try to use different types and sizes of brackets once we start nesting to reduce confusion.

    Yes. It’s terrible when a mathematician goes all broody, and any interference with the eggs is more than your life’s worth. It’s best to offer a variety of brackets and let them choose the ones they want.

    Mathematically expressing ovoids is serious business.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    x² + [1.4^x*1.6y]² = 1
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    The square brackets were a bit uncomfortable!
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    y² + (1.4y*1.6x)² = 1
    That's better, and the right way round to go in the egg cup.
  • BroJames wrote: »
    The square brackets were a bit uncomfortable!

    Anything with corners is always going to be.
  • BroJames wrote: »
    y² + (1.4y*1.6x)² = 1
    That's better, and the right way round to go in the egg cup.

    Ah, but is the correct end pointing up?
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    I thought foreign languages were supposed to be translated :astonished:
  • I thought foreign languages were supposed to be translated :astonished:

    Sorry:
    https://www.geogebra.org/geometry/dtackhfg
  • .
    BroJames wrote: »
    The square brackets were a bit uncomfortable!

    Anything with corners is always going to be.

    Depends on where you stick it.
  • Doc Tor wrote: »

    I used to only think he's an idiot. Now I know.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited January 2020
    RooK wrote: »

    Damn the chlamydia and it's emoji are funny. Just Smiley's eyes with no smile, just wiped out dread. Works for me.

    Eighth circle. Never got over Live And Let Die. Great choon (fine filum) but the GRAMMAR!!!!
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Philip Pullman finally said something with which I could agree wholeheartedly. Yay!
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    @mousethief and @Rossweisse from far away you may not appreciate that this coin is not just a coin. It is a Brexitist political gesture by Mr de Pfeffel Johnson and his pals, which has aroused a great deal of anger and contempt here. The argument about the inscription's punctuation is a small collateral addition, 'to cap it all, these morons don't know how to use commas either'.

    Think of it as though the Orange Monster was issuing dollar coins with 'Build the wall' embossed on them.
This discussion has been closed.