Irksome solecisms

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  • Enoch wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Why can’t people you live with be “loved ones”? I’ve never heard that before, and it seems like a very arbitrary and idiosyncratic distinction.

    I was 'brought up' or live with one mother, one granny and two elder sisters. All very strong idiosyncratic characters (bless them); they themselves would object to the term 'loved one'. 'Respected one', 'Obeyed one' more like it!

    BTW, 'The Loved One' is the title of Evelyn Waugh's biting satire of the US funeral business. So I have that baggage too!
  • Sorry guys, rather garbled the previous post: "I was 'brought up' or live with one mother, one granny and two elder sisters. All very strong idiosyncratic characters (bless them); they themselves would object to the term 'loved one'. 'Respected one', 'Obeyed one' more like it!

    BTW, 'The Loved One' is the title of Evelyn Waugh's biting satire of the US funeral business. So I have that baggage too!" is mine! Doh!
  • I've never heard "homecall" at all, in any context. A doctor stopping by would be a house call.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Even E.T. "phoned" home rather than "called" home.

    The musical version of "A Christmas Carol" includes the song "There's A Place Called Home."
  • "Mature content". A load of adults acting like hormone controlled adolescents, having sex in every dark corner, doesn't strike me as mature.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    Enoch wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Why can’t people you live with be “loved ones”? I’ve never heard that before, and it seems like a very arbitrary and idiosyncratic distinction.

    I would generally say “family and friends” (or “friends and family”), but “loved ones” doesn’t bother me at all.
    There's no reason why they shouldn't be. If they could be I would not object to it. It's just that the term never seems to be trotted out in any way other than to refer, in rather a sentimental way and often accompanied by a sympathetic or unctuous expression, to those who are far, far away, seriously ill or dead, and even better, more than one of those categories.

    Perhaps @Nick Tamen where you live, it isn't used that much or isn't used that way.
    That’s interesting, @Enoch, and no, that does reflect how it’s used where I live (the American South), at least in my experience. Sorry I misread you.

    I hear “loved ones” used with some regularity, but it always means “family and (close) friends,” without regard to location, health or mortal status.

  • mousethief wrote: »
    I've never heard "homecall" at all, in any context. A doctor stopping by would be a house call.

    I think in the UK, it might be a Home Visit.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Here, a home visit is more likely a social worker checking up on some condition that merits the attention of Social Services.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I've never heard "homecall" at all, in any context. A doctor stopping by would be a house call.

    I think in the UK, it might be a Home Visit.

    I would suggest that, since the changes to GPs' contracts in the mid-2000s, a home visit by a doctor to any but the most seriously ill could be described as a miracle... I accept that this may be unfair and apologise to any family doctor who feels so.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I've never heard "homecall" at all, in any context. A doctor stopping by would be a house call.

    I think in the UK, it might be a Home Visit.

    I would suggest that, since the changes to GPs' contracts in the mid-2000s, a home visit by a doctor to any but the most seriously ill could be described as a miracle... I accept that this may be unfair and apologise to any family doctor who feels so.

    It might be unusual, but our surgery does offer home visits if needed. It is unusual (phone appointments are far preferred) but they do still happen if there is no other alternative.
  • 'Legendary' used to mean 'famous'.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    There's the use of 'branded' in UK newspaper headlines to mean 'called', as in Candidate A brands Candidate B an incompetent hack. 'Branded' seems to me only appropriate if Candidate A's abuse of Candidate B is going to turn out to be especially memorable, which the headline writer doesn't know.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    edited November 2020
    Legendary also used to mean probably not real the legendary kingdom of Camelot.
  • BroJames wrote: »
    Legendary also used to mean probably not real the legendary kingdom of Camelot.

    I think that usage is still around.
  • have we already had 'iconic'? Its usage now is so lazy that it deserves to be mentioned several times. But words do change their meaning - think of 'fabulous' which used to mean 'fabled', i.e. not real.
    I'm not sure what 'iconic' is now taken to mean - 'famous' 'well-known', ubiquitous? That's the trouble - there is a whole stash of words which are best avoided in careful writing, which is a pity.

    'Living legend' ought to be an oxymoron. Oh well, that's progress for you.
  • <tangent>I think it was a folk singer (or maybe a blues singer) who used to make fun of the phrase "a legend in his own time" by referring to a colleague as "a rumor in his own time."</tangent>
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    BroJames wrote: »
    Legendary also used to mean probably not real the legendary kingdom of Camelot.

    I think that usage is still around.
    To my understanding, it still is what it means.

  • Enoch wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    BroJames wrote: »
    Legendary also used to mean probably not real the legendary kingdom of Camelot.

    I think that usage is still around.
    To my understanding, it still is what it means.

    And to mine too, with something like 'famous' or 'renowned' as a secondary meaning; my dictionary seems to agree.
    Eirenist wrote: »
    'Legendary' used to mean 'famous'.

    @Eirenist, what would you say it means now if it used to mean 'famous' and no longer does? Or are you saying that the Camelot meaning is the modern (and so in some people's eyes) incorrect one?
  • I recall Michael Foot being referred to as a leg end in his own lifetime...
  • Better than being a bell end!
  • Perhaps I should have written 'Legendary' when used to mean ''famous'. All clear now? I don't think that's what the word means. It's beginning to be as vague and useless as 'iconic'.
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    mousethief wrote: »
    I've never heard "homecall" at all, in any context. A doctor stopping by would be a house call.

    I think in the UK, it might be a Home Visit.

    I would suggest that, since the changes to GPs' contracts in the mid-2000s, a home visit by a doctor to any but the most seriously ill could be described as a miracle... I accept that this may be unfair and apologise to any family doctor who feels so.

    My parents have had several home visits from their GP over the past six years, rather to my surprise. I think my parents are of the generation that assumes the GP will call, and lo! he/she does.

  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    I think it also depends on big city or more rural locations. When my inlaws had Covid, their GP preferred to visit them at home at the end of her day because it meant she didn't have to disinfect her whole surgery afterwards. She could just go straight home and have a shower.
  • The constant, and increasingly frequent confusion of "then" and "than".
  • The constant, and increasingly frequent confusion of "then" and "than".

    I'd guess that in 200 years "than" will be noted in dictionaries as "archaic".
  • Hahaha.... too true.
  • In Facebook and other comments, "defiantly" instead of "definitely" - clearly the result of predictive text.
  • The constant, and increasingly frequent confusion of "then" and "than".

    Sorry, I don't see how they can be confused! The usage is quite different.
  • Indeed they are different, but I see the two confused all the time. I've seen them confused in Pepys's Diary, but there you could attribute it to spelling not yet regularised. I've seen them on confused here on the Ship, and elsewhere in the cybersphere, quite frequently. Make of that what you will.
  • Sounds like predictive text again. But 'then' is frequently tacked on to conventional phrases in conversation, as in 'There you go then'.
  • I heard today, on the UK Radio 3, that I can 'enjoy the culture experience'. Whatever does this mean? Why is it that now we don't just enjoy something, we have to have the 'experience' of whatever it is. What's the difference?

    Hearing the above, I had the nausea experience.
  • Just so long as it wasn't the "full immersive" version.
  • Does it set anyone else's teeth on edge when people use "and" for "an"? e.g. "Bob was and old friend of mine." I imagine it's a combination of autocorrect and laziness (can't be bothered to fix autocorrect's mistake), but it bugs the hell out of me.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I noticed another one this evening, which I realise I've been hearing more frequently over the last year or so, which is forming a past continuous by using a past participle passive formation where 'proper' grammar would have a present participle active one, as in
    'I was stood at the corner waiting for the bus when ...... '.
    I think it may be driven by some sort of vague feeling that as the periphrastic verb is in the past tense, the participle ought to agree with it.

    The person who delivered our local weather forecast on the television this evening used that formation only this evening.

  • Sounds like he's a wooden Indian and somebody installed him on the corner.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    I noticed another one this evening, which I realise I've been hearing more frequently over the last year or so, which is forming a past continuous by using a past participle passive formation where 'proper' grammar would have a present participle active one, as in
    'I was stood at the corner waiting for the bus when ...... '.
    I think it may be driven by some sort of vague feeling that as the periphrastic verb is in the past tense, the participle ought to agree with it.

    The person who delivered our local weather forecast on the television this evening used that formation only this evening.

    Quite normal in the dialect in these parts.
  • Ditto.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I'm reminded of a conversation with a lady in Yorkshire who couldn't get the hand-drier in the ladies' loo to work - she obviously thought it was automatic, but there was a button. I noticed and pressed the said button: she thanked me profusely and said, "Ee, I'd have been stood here all day!".
  • But then, in Yorkshire and elsewhere one can hear, for the simple past (not the subjunctive) "I were... "
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I agree it's been widespread in dialect and always has been, but these are people who think they're speaking RP.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    I agree it's been widespread in dialect and always has been, but these are people who think they're speaking RP.

    RP is an accent. It could be used for any dialect, although it's generally associated with southern dialects very close to standard English.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    But then, in Yorkshire and elsewhere one can hear, for the simple past (not the subjunctive) "I were... "

    And round here (and in many parts of urban Yorkshire) was is frequent in all persons. Hence I was, you was, he was, they was.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Enoch wrote: »
    I agree it's been widespread in dialect and always has been, but these are people who think they're speaking RP.

    RP is an accent. It could be used for any dialect, although it's generally associated with southern dialects very close to standard English.

    Standard English is a dialect.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Enoch wrote: »
    I agree it's been widespread in dialect and always has been, but these are people who think they're speaking RP.

    RP is an accent. It could be used for any dialect, although it's generally associated with southern dialects very close to standard English.

    Standard English is a dialect.

    I know. RP isn't. That was my point.
  • Remind me what "RP" means, and why it's not a dialect?
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Remind me what "RP" means, and why it's not a dialect?
    Royal Pain. Can be in some body parts, but not usually a dialect.


  • RockyRoger wrote: »
    I heard today, on the UK Radio 3, that I can 'enjoy the culture experience'. Whatever does this mean? Why is it that now we don't just enjoy something, we have to have the 'experience' of whatever it is. What's the difference?

    Hearing the above, I had the nausea experience.

    It's on the same shelf as 'worship experience'.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Remind me what "RP" means, and why it's not a dialect?

    RP is Recieved Pronunciation - a particular way of pronouncing English phonemes. It's an accent. An accent is not a dialect. It's commonly associated with Standard English which is a dialect, but it's not the same thing.

    I speak Standard English in formal meetings and so on. However I don't use RP as I don't observe the put/putt split nor the mass/grass split.
  • Does anyone else have a problem with the use of 'absolutely' instead of 'yes'? It ubiquitous in the 'meeja' and it drives me mad. What in Heaven's name is wrong with 'yes'?

    I'm starting to think this thread should be moved to somewhere hotter where rants are acceptable. "RR", (I hear you ask), "should this thread be moved to Hell?" "Absolutely"!
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