Irksome solecisms

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  • So should we take away every possible way to show one's strength of feeling about a statement or a proposed course of action? Or just this one?
  • I was pleasantly surprised just now to be invited to sign up for something free of charge, instead of the increasingly common "for free".
  • RockyRoger wrote: »
    Does anyone else have a problem with the use of 'absolutely' instead of 'yes'? It ubiquitous in the 'meeja' and it drives me mad. What in Heaven's name is wrong with 'yes'?

    "Let your yes be yes and your no be no"?
  • I certainly know some people who view "yes" as insufficiently positive, leading to discussions like "do you want to do X?" "yes" [ .. time passes .. ] "you didn't seem very keen on X, so we've planned Y instead" "???"
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I'm going to raise my trotter and admit to being one of Rocky Roger's "absolutely" addicts. There are many, many solecisms which I find almost cringe-makingly irksome, but saying "absolutely" when you mean a very emphatic "yes" isn't one of them.

    Sorry about that. :blush:
  • What drives me mad is a politician or (increasingly) the BBC talking down to their (supposedly) youthful and plebeian audience - 'Hi' used as a salutation, 'kids' for children, and, now 'jab' for injection or vaccine. It's even worse when this sort of thing comes from a member of the clergy. We are not all primary school children, though some of us seem to behave as if we were. Sorry, I'm beginning to rant.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    What drives me mad is a politician or (increasingly) the BBC talking down to their (supposedly) youthful and plebeian audience - 'Hi' used as a salutation, 'kids' for children, and, now 'jab' for injection or vaccine. It's even worse when this sort of thing comes from a member of the clergy. We are not all primary school children, though some of us seem to behave as if we were. Sorry, I'm beginning to rant.

    Or those happen to be the words they use for these things. Perhaps they find the alternatives you prefer to be stuffy and over-formal?
  • Kids are children and children are kids. Not seeing the problem there.
  • I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how to use "Hi" if not as a salutation. Has it any other use?
  • Didn't the angel Gabriel begin with "Lo"?
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how to use "Hi" if not as a salutation. Has it any other use?
    What need is there to use it at all?

  • Enoch wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how to use "Hi" if not as a salutation. Has it any other use?
    What need is there to use it at all?
    Because in some contexts and cultures/sub-cultures it conveys friendliness in a way that “hello” might not.

    Of course where I live, one is more likely to hear “Hey!” (or “Hey y’all!” if appropriate) than “Hi!”

  • Enoch wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how to use "Hi" if not as a salutation. Has it any other use?
    What need is there to use it at all?

    Why not? It's what people say.
  • Personally, I want "Morning Has Broken"--the Cat Stevens version.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Personally, I want "Morning Has Broken"--the Cat Stevens version.

    Aaaaarrrghhhh!!!!
  • Enoch wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how to use "Hi" if not as a salutation. Has it any other use?
    What need is there to use it at all?

    Virtually every human language contains greetings. Do you know of one that does not? What do people say in that language when coming upon people?
  • I just cannot bear the word 'kids' used instead of 'children'. Find it demeaning. Just a personal idiosyncrasy, I suppose, because I have no problem with 'guys' (used for both sexes).
  • What's wrong with 'Hallo', or 'Good Morning'? And these people are addressing the population at large, not sub-cultures. In one sub-culture, not far from where I live, 'Wotcher, cock' used to be an acceptable greeting.
    We all have our betes noires, if I may use that expression, as I cannot think of an English equivalent. My wife, formerly a school-teacher, goes into a rant when she hears the word 'student' used instead of 'pupil'.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    They should be referred to as education recipient customer units.
  • I think most people I know say Hi. It's just taken over in London. I do say Hiyah at times.
  • I believe that 'Hello' only became used as a greeting as the telephone become commonplace - something that Merriam Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-origin-of-hello) seems to agree with (sorry, can't make the short link work). So perhaps we are simply moving from 'Hello' to 'Hi', in the same way as we moved to 'Hello' about a century ago.
  • I think it's a regional, possibly national, difference. We've used "Hi" as an equal alternative to "hello" in the U.S. since I was born. It's not the kind of thing that sticks out as excessively informal. It's just a variation.
  • NEQ may be able to update us on current Aberdonian practice, but it always used to be "Fit like?" (How are you?) It is brief and economical, and seems friendlier than "Hi!" I don't know if it has extensive e-mail usage, but I wouldn't hesitate to open a message to my sister with it, and we can't even pretend to be teuchters.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    RockyRoger wrote: »
    I just cannot bear the word 'kids' used instead of 'children'. Find it demeaning. Just a personal idiosyncrasy, I suppose, because I have no problem with 'guys' (used for both sexes).

    1590. Go back to the 16th century and bitch at those damned neologists.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    What's wrong with 'Hallo', or 'Good Morning'?

    Nothing at all. How about returning the favor for "hi"?
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    My wife, formerly a school-teacher, goes into a rant when she hears the word 'student' used instead of 'pupil'.

    The way I learned it, "pupil" refers to primary students, and "student" refers to secondary students.
  • I believe that 'Hello' only became used as a greeting as the telephone become commonplace - something that Merriam Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-origin-of-hello) seems to agree with (sorry, can't make the short link work). So perhaps we are simply moving from 'Hello' to 'Hi', in the same way as we moved to 'Hello' about a century ago.

    I heard a story, possibly apocryphal, that Alexander G. Bell wanted to use "ahoy!" as a greeting on the phone. He thought "hello" was too personal.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    RockyRoger wrote: »
    I just cannot bear the word 'kids' used instead of 'children'. Find it demeaning. Just a personal idiosyncrasy, I suppose, because I have no problem with 'guys' (used for both sexes).

    1590. Go back to the 16th century and bitch at those damned neologists.

    At last - someone who agrees with me.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I believe that 'Hello' only became used as a greeting as the telephone become commonplace - something that Merriam Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-origin-of-hello) seems to agree with (sorry, can't make the short link work). So perhaps we are simply moving from 'Hello' to 'Hi', in the same way as we moved to 'Hello' about a century ago.

    I heard a story, possibly apocryphal, that Alexander G. Bell wanted to use "ahoy!" as a greeting on the phone. He thought "hello" was too personal.

    And if you're talking to customer disservice, use "Aarrrghhhh."
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I believe that 'Hello' only became used as a greeting as the telephone become commonplace - something that Merriam Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-origin-of-hello) seems to agree with (sorry, can't make the short link work). So perhaps we are simply moving from 'Hello' to 'Hi', in the same way as we moved to 'Hello' about a century ago.

    I heard a story, possibly apocryphal, that Alexander G. Bell wanted to use "ahoy!" as a greeting on the phone. He thought "hello" was too personal.

    And if you're talking to customer disservice, use "Aarrrghhhh."

    LOL
  • We Antipodeans are likely to say G'day & How ya going (of course only casually, not in formal situations).
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    Or Kia Ora*, from Aotearoa/NZ.

    *Literally - Good Health. It's also used to denote that someone agrees with what is being said.
  • Huia, interestingly when I was a young child there was a cordial mix called Kiaora available in Tasmania which was very popular.
  • As I implied, my loathing of 'kids is irrational. There was a lady reviewer on Radio 3 yesterday, saying good things (about Mozart), but I found myself enumerating her 'absolutelies'. I ask you, very distracting!
    Does anyone else remember that wonderful 'Bilko' episode, 'The Twitch'?
  • rhubarb wrote: »
    Huia, interestingly when I was a young child there was a cordial mix called Kiaora available in Tasmania which was very popular.
    Also available in the UK.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Enoch wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how to use "Hi" if not as a salutation. Has it any other use?
    What need is there to use it at all?
    Because in some contexts and cultures/sub-cultures it conveys friendliness in a way that “hello” might not.

    Of course where I live, one is more likely to hear “Hey!” (or “Hey y’all!” if appropriate) than “Hi!”

    If I said that, my mother would snap back: "Hay is for horses!"

  • RockyRoger wrote: »
    I just cannot bear the word 'kids' used instead of 'children'. Find it demeaning.

    Yeah, but on the other hand, I can't really imagine Cappy Dick saying "Hey, children! Try for these prizes!"



  • Sparrow wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Enoch wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how to use "Hi" if not as a salutation. Has it any other use?
    What need is there to use it at all?
    Because in some contexts and cultures/sub-cultures it conveys friendliness in a way that “hello” might not.

    Of course where I live, one is more likely to hear “Hey!” (or “Hey y’all!” if appropriate) than “Hi!”

    If I said that, my mother would snap back: "Hay is for horses!"
    :lol: Yes, there were some mothers who’d say that; sometimes followed by “grass is cheaper.” But it didn’t seem to have much effect. And most mothers I knew said “hey” themselves

  • I heard “hay is for horses or donkey like you.” But not from my mother who would never have been rude, even to her kids.

    Oh, and answering an unthread enquiry, I believe “Fit like?” can still be heard in and around the granite city. The correct response is “No bad.”
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    I remember it from visiting The Broch (Fraserburgh) in 1976. But I'm not sure you'd use it in writing. I also think that the "f" in "fit" is different to the ordinary English one.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    Cathscats wrote: »
    Oh, and answering an unthread enquiry, I believe “Fit like?” can still be heard in and around the granite city. The correct response is “No bad.”
    Where I learnt it (in Banffshire) it was always ‘Nae bad’.
  • In Staffordshire, I have read, the greeting is 'You all right?', which comes out as 'You rat'.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Cathscats wrote: »
    ... “Fit like?” can still be heard in and around the granite city. The correct response is “No bad.”
    No no. The correct response is Nae bad. Fit like yoursel'? :)
  • I'm not sure if this has been raised before, but using nouns as verbs annoys me. I particularly dislike a line in a prayer I have come across: 'the love that birthed creation'.
  • Well fwiw, “birth” as a verb dates back to the mid-13th Century—around the same time that “birth” as a noun appeared.

  • Eirenist wrote: »
    I'm not sure if this has been raised before, but using nouns as verbs annoys me. I particularly dislike a line in a prayer I have come across: 'the love that birthed creation'.

    The ability to verb nouns is one of the strengths of the English language. It used to annoy the grammarians because it wasn't really possible in Latin but English isn't Latin.
  • I thought there would be a ton of posts citing noun/verbs. Book.
  • I thought there would be a ton of posts citing noun/verbs. Book.

    You can do it with adjectives too but have to be careful; as Calvin and Hobbes noted, verbing can weird language.
  • You see, I woukdn't say that, but probably create my own verb: "weirdify".
  • I stand corrected. I still think the line I quoted is perhaps bad theology, insofar as it implies that creation is itself divine, but this is not the place to debate the point.
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