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  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Seung Min Kim
    NEWS —> McConnell’s office called Schumer’s people today + told them McConnell would not consent to reconvening immediately under the 2004 emergency authorities, a person familiar says. So the Senate won’t reconvene Friday, or almost certainly before Jan. 19. Trial in Biden term

    So McConnell is on record as saying Trump has "committed impeachable offenses" but doesn't seem to consider it urgent.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Is it my imagination or is Gym Jordan coughing a lot and sounding hoarse? It's probably that he's doing a lot of talking and can't take a drink of water under the House mask rules, but in these days you can't help but notice and worry about such things.
  • Various:

    --Am listening via NPR. I'm proud of the people speaking up for impeachment--and I think at least a couple were Republicans. NPR host Scott Simon, who I like a lot, is doing the "who's doing what" voiceover. He has a soothing voice, and makes a nice balance to the tension in the House.

    --T is supposed to speak at the Alamo historic site in Texas today--except it turns out that he's going to the *town* of Alamo, which is quite a ways a way. Supposedly, he's going to talk about his wall, which AIUI is near the town. But...is this another mix-up, like the Four Seasons Landscaping press conference which should have been at the Four Seasons posh hotel?

    Just skimming the list of search hits, it looks like many people think it's another Four Seasons mess, and others that it's meant as a reference to the Battle of the Alamo (Wikipedia). That article gets into the history *and* folklore, which tend to be tangled together.

    T might want to consider how that turned out. It was a "last stand". (There. are links to Wiki articles on last stands.)

    Note: the article uses the term "Texians" rather than the usual "Texans". I looked it up, and turns out it was used for Texans at a certain point in their history--including when the Battle of the Alamo occurred.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Is it my imagination or is Gym Jordan coughing a lot and sounding hoarse? It's probably that he's doing a lot of talking and can't take a drink of water under the House mask rules, but in these days you can't help but notice and worry about such things.

    Not sure if I heard him. But many Republicans were unmasked while hunkering down during the siege--even when Democrats crowded in with them begged them to mask up. At least one Democrat is reported to have gotten covid from that. So if Jordan does have covid, he might have gotten it there.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    No - he’s going to Alamo, which is on the border, to gesture at his wall. (The Alamo is in San Antonio, which is nowhere near the border.)
  • Yes, I did say he's going to the town. Please check the first paragraph of that section.
    :)
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Is it my imagination or is Gym Jordan coughing a lot and sounding hoarse? It's probably that he's doing a lot of talking and can't take a drink of water under the House mask rules, but in these days you can't help but notice and worry about such things.
    Not sure if I heard him. But many Republicans were unmasked while hunkering down during the siege--even when Democrats crowded in with them begged them to mask up. At least one Democrat is reported to have gotten covid from that. So if Jordan does have covid, he might have gotten it there.

    Five members of the House of Representatives have tested positive for COVID-19 since the storming of the Capitol.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Voting has now started on H. Res. 24 [PDF] "Impeaching Donald John Trump, President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors". Seven Republicans are expected to vote in favor of this resolution.
  • I was struck by the words of Seth Moulton, (Dem), "There are more troops in Washington DC than in Afghanistan, and they are here to protect us against the commander in chief". Can you believe it?
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    It just boggles my mind that so many Repugnicans were still regurgitating the old "You've been on his case since Day 1 and have never found any proof that anything illegal happened" shtick.
  • Annnd he’s been impeached.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    Yay!
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    The final vote total was 231 (including 10 Republicans) in favor of impeachment, 197 (all Republican) against impeachment, and 5 members (1 Democrat, 4 Republicans) not voting.
  • Well done those Representatives. Does that mean that 60 votes in the Senate now result in Trump's nominal removal, or are there more steps required?
  • When will he be escorted out of the White House?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Well done those Representatives. Does that mean that 60 votes in the Senate now result in Trump's nominal removal, or are there more steps required?

    67. Conviction following impeachment requires the concurrence of two-thirds of that body. Unfortunately McConnell has stated that he will not reconvene the Senate early to deal with this. As the schedule stands the Senate is adjourned until January 19. Maybe further revelations will force McConnell to reconsider this, so we'll see what happens.
  • I think the problems include: the Senate is (or will soon be) in recess, until after the inauguration, IIRC. Plus (most of?) the Republican senators aren't apt to vote for impeachment. (Barring some mental awakening, a "come to {spiritual figure of their preference} moment", or a Lysistrata-style mission*.)

    *Lysistrata is a play by old, dead, Greek dude Aristophanes about women stopping a war by saying "you ain't getting any!" and keeping their word.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    I think the problems include: the Senate is (or will soon be) in recess, until after the inauguration, IIRC.

    Just before. The Senate is currently scheduled to reconvene on January 19, the day before the inauguration. They can be called back in to session early but (so far) Majority Leader McConnell has rejected that notion.
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Plus (most of?) the Republican senators aren't apt to vote for impeachment. (Barring some mental awakening, a "come to {spiritual figure of their preference} moment", or a Lysistrata-style mission.)

    Hard to say. It would only take seventeen Republicans to convict Trump, assuming all Democrats vote to do so. A lot of Republican Senators see their party's 2024 nominee looking back at them from their mirrors (Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, Rubio, others), but they're faced with the same problem they had in 2016. They want Trump gone but they also want to be the new favorite of Trump's supporters, so they can't directly oppose him themselves. We'll see if they can do enough horse trading to get seventeen of their lower-tier co-partisans in the Senate to do their dirty work for them, assuming something else doesn't come up to delay or derail a Senate trial.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Does anyone know when Schumer becomes Majority Leader?
  • Being weary and cynical, I don't think he'll be convicted. I think we'll have to be satisfied with the fact that he'll forever be known as the first (hopefully only) president to be impeached twice. And that in a single term!
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    Does anyone know when Schumer becomes Majority Leader?

    The moment Kamala Harris' hand comes off the Bible.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    When are the two new senators from Georgia being sworn in? Or have they been already?
  • Being weary and cynical, I don't think he'll be convicted. I think we'll have to be satisfied with the fact that he'll forever be known as the first (hopefully only) president to be impeached twice. And that in a single term!

    I suspect you are right.

    I imagine that Trump's words 'peacefully and patriotically' will be cited in his defence and he'll get away with it. They won't be able to get a trial together before the 20th and who knows what outrages and violent whackdoodlery will have been perpetrated by the conspiracy-theorists, gun nuts and right-wing 'militias' before that?

    The Capitol Building seems well defended this time but I can certainly anticipate the crackpots trying to shoot up State Buildings or attack scapegoats before Trump changes address.

    The less reputable Republicans will say that he's covered his back this time as he has formally called for no violence. If a trial doesn't work he'll stand again in 2024 unless his business empire collapses or the GOP doesn't purge itself and field some decent candidates for a change instead of screwballs.
  • Now it needs Mitch McConnell to grow a spine, agree to the Senate being recalled and get this voted on now.
  • Perhaps the Senate Republicans should consider what they'd do if everything were flipped around: Democratic president trying to stay past his sell-by date, and mobs of Democrats attacking the Capitol to keep a duly-elected Republican from becoming president.

    Think they'd be singing "Kumbayah", saying "there, there", and talking about healing the country?
  • The trouble is that nobody can go on operating at a white hot level of anger forever. If the Senate was forced to vote on January 7 or 8, we might have had it. But by the time this actually gets to them, tempers will cool and spinelessness / corruption / suckitude will prevail in at least some people's minds. I'm pretty sure it's already too late. Still, at least a formal MAJOR rebuke has been registered (censure is a feather in the wind).
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Plus (most of?) the Republican senators aren't apt to vote for impeachment. (Barring some mental awakening, a "come to {spiritual figure of their preference} moment", or a Lysistrata-style mission*.)

    *Lysistrata is a play by old, dead, Greek dude Aristophanes about women stopping a war by saying "you ain't getting any!" and keeping their word.

    You mean some of those old birds are still "getting it?" Oh, the images that spring to mind!

    The Republican senator who looks like he washes his face in Botox has been phoning his fellow Republican senators to persuade them to vote against impeachment. So much for his declaration only a week ago that he had had enough of you-know-who.

    And even the senator who looks like a turtle, after declaring that you-know-who has committed impeachable offenses, has said that he hasn't made up his mind yet on how he will vote.

    I knew deep down that this apparent cure from Trumpitis would yield to a relapse.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    I think the problems include: the Senate is (or will soon be) in recess, until after the inauguration, IIRC. Plus (most of?) the Republican senators aren't apt to vote for impeachment. (Barring some mental awakening, a "come to {spiritual figure of their preference} moment", or a Lysistrata-style mission*.)

    *Lysistrata is a play by old, dead, Greek dude Aristophanes about women stopping a war by saying "you ain't getting any!" and keeping their word.

    The Senate reconvenes on 19 January. Their agenda for the day is to approve several Biden appointments.

    Note to Nick. Now that Trump has been impeached, does that prevent him from pardoning himself?
  • I'm not Nick, but I don't think it would prevent him from pardoning himself. The question is whether the pardon would actually *do* anything worthwhile. It is clear from the Constitution that he cannot pardon himself out of impeachment. Pardoning himself out of other crimes would doubtless wind up in the Supreme Court--they'd want to settle the issue of whether such a thing is even possible, and there's no longer any reason to try keep him out of the courts with the goal of preserving the dignity of the presidency--he hasn't got so much as an imaginary shred left, after last week. So they might as well go whole hog and get that point of law clarified before the next idiot comes down the pike and tries to to do it.

    Which is why I sort of hope he goes ahead and does it. Though his current attitude ("If I can't have a pardon, NOBODY can have one!") will also lead to a a fair amount of entertainment, as someone turns on the lights in the cockroach-ridden kitchen at last.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    edited January 14
    Re Capitol riot:

    I was thinking today of Rep. Jackie Speier (D-San Mateo, CA), and wondering how she was doing in the aftermath.

    She's a Jonestown massacre survivor. She and her then-boss Rep. Leo Ryan went down to investigate the California-based cult. That's when the massacre happened, IIRC. Rep. Ryan was killed. Jackie Speier was shot and left for dead.

    She talked about both experiences in an article at Patch. It's based on a interview she gave to KGO-TV (ABC7 News).

    Note: I've read the article, but not seen the video.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    I don't think the 25th amendment is really appropriate anyway. It's clearly intended for the situation where the President is incapacitated through illness. That's not really the problem here. If Trump is to be removed it should be through impeachment, not through the misapplication of an amendment.

    Agreed. Finding myself agreeing with Pence is weird, but I actually think he's right on this.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Someone in the Biden administration had better count the White House silver.
  • They're more than welcome to take home all pics of T, IMHO, as long as they leave one or two for historical continuity. As someone pointed out in a comment, this is the same guy who removed items--from a US embassy in France.
  • Someone(s) always do this in between presidents. There is an inventory, not only of what was there when they moved in, but of what was borrowed or given later on--you don't get to take home most of the "gifts" foreign countries offer you, there are very strict rules on that. So if T or anybody else makes off with a golden toilet, rest assured it will be noticed and demanded back. Loudly. In the media, too.
  • Someone(s) always do this in between presidents. There is an inventory, not only of what was there when they moved in, but of what was borrowed or given later on--you don't get to take home most of the "gifts" foreign countries offer you, there are very strict rules on that. So if T or anybody else makes off with a golden toilet, rest assured it will be noticed and demanded back. Loudly. In the media, too.

    And Trump will say "make me" and nothing will come of it. This is his pattern.
  • I can imagine his entry in future history books. 'Impeached twice, he was not convicted; but sufficient evidence emerged to convince most students of the period that he was personally responsible for the theft of a golden toilet, an event which has become the defining metaphor of his presidency'. :smile:
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    So if T or anybody else makes off with a golden toilet, rest assured it will be noticed and demanded back. Loudly. In the media, too.

    I can't imagine anyone wanting his toilet, golden or porcelain.
  • I think the golden toilet should be on exhibit at the Smithsonian -- as the ONLY memorial to trump.
  • When T had the golden toilet and other gold things installed? Who paid for it--him or the gov't? (Or campaign funds, or donors, or...)
  • I'm not sure that he does indeed have a golden toilet, to be honest. There was an episode very very early in his term when they tried to strong arm someone--the Smithsonian?--into lending them a van Gogh that was particularly well known and doubtless well visited. The institution said "hell no" and offered them a golden toilet instead (this hit the news). I do not know if the offer was ever taken up.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The golden toilet was supposed to be housed in the Guggenheim. However, it was stolen in 2019. I do not know if it was ever found.
  • edited January 15
    It’s got Trump’s dabs all over it, Marlowe. :smile:
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    The only relevant questions about the toilet are whether it can flush, and if so how large is it.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    In Steve Bell’s series of cartoons trump is the golden toilet. https://tinyurl.com/yyyu2kfv
  • I'd rather he had the golden toilet rather than the Van Gogh, but would have preferred the Smithsonian had told him to take a hike, as the GOP should also have done way back.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    If it is found, and installed anywhere, it should be in working condition, with a portrait of you-know-who etched into the bowl.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Speaking of pardons, there's now news of a possible pardon for Antlerhead. I knew this was bound to happen.
  • Meh, this is just his lawyer's desperate attempt to salvage something from the wreckage his client has made of his case, with viral video everywhere. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has (yet) said Trump intends to do it. And it's a bold move, to simultaneously ask for a pardon and to blame one's actions on Trump's incitement in one and the same announcement!
This discussion has been closed.