The news that Jesus is NOT the son of God
in Purgatory
How would you react to that? I think I would be sick to the stomach if the news were true.
I've got all my money on it. I'm going for broke. If he isn't I feel life is meaningless. Guys like Trump suddenly have credibility. (Apparently he thinks only losers get crucified)
All of us who struggle in this life, who feel closer to losers than winners, will be heart broken. Jesus represents the short guy in this life. The one who doesn't quite cut the mustard.
To lose the Christian message, is to lose everything.
I've got all my money on it. I'm going for broke. If he isn't I feel life is meaningless. Guys like Trump suddenly have credibility. (Apparently he thinks only losers get crucified)
All of us who struggle in this life, who feel closer to losers than winners, will be heart broken. Jesus represents the short guy in this life. The one who doesn't quite cut the mustard.
To lose the Christian message, is to lose everything.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Not being snarky - just trying to establish a possible basis for discussion!
I’ll make some popcorn.
@Insanely humble has thrown a perfectly reasonable question into the ring, and presumably would like US to discuss it.
Second, how would you know whether to believe it or not?
Weird.
So this is the kind of response I can expect here.
Pedantic sir? Or just being a pain for fun?
And in that case, how I react is quite strongly dependent on what happens then...
More pedantic responses. Roll with flow sir. Use your imag.
Dunno. I’m not a forum regular.
You're not engaging with people, just calling them names. That's not the way to get genuine discussion on your topic going.
Okay. Let’s do a reset.
“He’s not the Son of God, He’s a very naughty boy.”
Whare do press ROFL? Sorry I mean vomit.
The first 3 people revealed their intentions quite soon. I suspect I'm pretty accurate in assessment.
I'm sorry you dismissed my two questions as mere pedantry. I don't see how we can begin to discuss your OP until we fully understand what it is you're asking. Telling me to "use my imagination" makes it more obscure, not clearer.
Does anyone think the ship of fools formula is over cooked?
I think more authentic humour comes naturally from serious forums. The Trump jokes are overcooked for sure.
That's better
Three consecutive smart alec posts triggered me here I'm afraid. And I'm yet to believe they were sincere.
Whoa, slow down. People are just trying to clarify where you're coming from.
So, for the record, I believe:
1. Jesus of Nazareth was The Son of God (note the capitals)
2. He died by crucifixion
3. He came back to life again.
To a very large extent number 1. is informed by number 3.
So, as a suggestion, here's how I frame the hypothetical:
Suppose a 1st century tomb in Palestine that had lay underdisturbed for two millennia was found. In it was the body of a crucifixion victim aged about 30 when he died. By some DNA, or other means (and this is the problematic bit) it was shown that this was the body of Jesus of Nazareth.
What then?
For me and many (though not all) Christians that would be the end of my Christian Faith. A belief in physical resurrection is the cornerstone for me.
Not all feel this way.
I could write a lot more. I won't just yet. I'm just hoping this helps get the discussion going...
AFZ
My sense of déjà vu is a lot more recent.
So you are accusing me of starting a troll like thread?
I am 100% sincere. I am a natural born worry wart. I worry whether Jesus is really the son of God. Maybe the atheists are right and God doesn't exist. Doubt. I experience daily doubt. I try to base my life on God's existence.
Dostoyevsky said if there is no God, then anything is permissable. Hitler Stalin and other mass murderers get off Scot free. That doesn't make sense. I cling to a belief in Jesus Christ, even if it makes me look foolish.
But this is the classic. Also where my wife gets to be the Prime Bully and Queen of Hell, so it brings back fond memories.
I wish you had posted earlier. I like the tone of your writing.
Of course ressurection is a key point. Though I tend not to worry about the science too much.
Just Christianity has been such a big part of my life.
If atheism is true, I may as well go out and rob a bank now. Who cares, right?
Removed duplicate quotes. BroJames, Purgatory Host
Okay, let’s start with your last point. What does your faith mean to you? What is it about it that keeps you holding on in spite of the fact that you feel that it makes you look foolish?
"The train leaves at 11am, I believe".
However, I do not know of any language where the verb for "know" is interchangeable with that for "believe".
I've got to a point where my interest in propositional statements like "Jesus is the Son of God" is limited. My response to the one who boldly insists it is so is the same as to the one who boldly insists it is not: "you don't know that".
God, Heaven and Hell are not going to pop into existence to make me or you feel better about Stalin.
My response would be, 'Of course I don't "know" that, but I don't "know" much of anything. It's all belief, most of it based entirely on the words of others. So now what?'
Jesus represents love. By love I mean openness, vulnerability, kindness, integrity, being a good loser, ...........all the attributes that are often not needed to succeed in life.
Basis and level of confidence. Mine for religious propositions are "not much" for both.
Maybe you have. But it wasn't me.
No, I wouldn't accuse even you of being ThomasDF. He is sui generis.
I was raised in a loving family. A loving Christian family. My parents were near saints. I believe in love. Because I have experienced love. And I believe that love comes from Jesus Christ originally. Who is God.
All love comes from God. If we don't believe in God , we don't believe in love.
Even you. Are you one of the cute mods here?
Neither.
They were genuine questions. Why should you suppose otherwise?
We could do a whole thread on epistemology. For me, in short, it's not like all the things I could possibly believe are laid out on a conveyor belt, and I look at each one and say, "So what's the evidence for this one?" They are more interconnected than that, like a web, and aren't all on the "immediately empirically verifiable" outer level of the web. But this takes us far afield, perhaps.
I can absolutely tell you that you are as wrong as a wrong thing there. I know some incredibly loving atheists. And I know my own ability to love, weak or strong as it may be, is unconnected to my belief in God, strong or weak as that may be.
BroJames, Purgatory Host
Thank you
So do I know loving atheists. My wife is a loving agnostic too.
But the source of that love? Where does it come from? The essence comes from a higher power, God. A God we don't understand yet. Divine intelligence.