Transwomen in prison has been an issue in Scotland for several years.
Paris Green (in prison for murder, so not a sex offender) was sent to Cornton Vale (Scotland's prison for women) in 2013. She had consensual PIV sex with other inmates and was moved to the female wing of Saughton jail, where she had consensual PIV sex with other inmates....
However she has had / is due to have gender reassignment surgery, so will be able to remain in a women's prison for the rest of her sentence.
So will consensual lesbian sex with other prisoners be considered more or less of a problem ? (Or is it only the existence of a penis that folk care about.)
Functionally, a rapist can rape in a prison of either gender - with or without a penis because object rape is a reality. Does it matter which gender a (very rare) trans rapist rapes - or is it more of a concern that a prison is so badly run it is possible for anyone to assault anyone.
Penises seem to loom large. Navratilova made some remark about not wanting to compete against someone with a penis, and various critics enquired how the penis is used in tennis. Oh dear, some of the replies made me blush.
Less of a problem, I think, because there is no risk of pregnancy with consensual lesbian sex. Certainly, the Scottish press seemed to be focussing on what the Scottish Prison Service would do if women were becoming pregnant whilst in prison.
There is a two-child cap on benefits. If a woman had two children and conceived a third child in prison, presumably the government would have to lump "conceived whilst a guest of Her Majesty" as a category within the rape clause? Presumably the government would have to guarantee payment of state benefits to any child conceived in prison? Even consensual sex in prison is a grey area in terms of consent.
A number of athletes are joining with Navratilova's objection to trans women athletes. I think they deserve a fair hearing, but they tend to say stupid things. Thus, Navratilova was arguing that trans athletes are cheating, although she has apologized. It's a bizarre thing to say, since a lot of sports follow IAAF and Olympic rules on gender, and these lay down conditions for intersex and trans athletes to participate. How is this cheating?
Sharron Davies has chipped in, but angered gender activists by saying that trans people "wish to be trans". This is a common idea, that gender non-conformity is a decision made by the GNC person. So is cis gender chosen? It reminds me of the "lifestyle" comment that used to made about gays and lesbians.
I'm probably myopic about women in prison, because a relative of mine was in Cornton Vale, years ago. She had her first child in her teens, and ended up in prison for shoplifting to feed her drug habit. Lots of women like my relative in Cornton Vale - the product of fucked-up families, leading chaotic lives. If Paris Green had been there whilst my relative was there I could see her having sex with her. I think if you had met my relative, you'd understand my concerns.
So in a 24hr supervised prison, how is this happening ? And/or you think your relative would have had no risk of a relationship with a woman and no access to contraceptive depot or implant ?
I don't know how it was happening, but Paris Green was moved out of Cornton Vale because of sexual relations with more than one woman, and a pregnancy scare. She was moved into the female wing of Saughton, where the problem of sexual relations with female prisoners continued. This was widely reported in the press in Scotland. However she has either had or is about to have surgery.
I've missed a lot of pages of this thread and there are too many posts to catch up.
Anyway, as briefly mentioned at the top of this page, there is a discussion currently about transgender athletes.
I'm not sure how to think about this issue. On the one hand, I can see it is about equality and fairness. On the other, I can also see that mascaline bodies are not just about testosterone, and it doesn't seem very controversial to suggest that someone who has gone through puberty as a male will have developed a particular bone and muscle structure distinct from a person who went through puberty as a woman.
On the other other hand, it seems equally uncontroversial that genetics are a significant factor in the achievement of elite athletes, so it seems a tad bizarre to be saying that "this kind" of genetic accident is perfectly fine but "this kind" is not.
One suggestion might be that sports become integrated and classified (in some way) like in the Paralympics. So "the best" compete against whoever is the best in their class.
But then that does seem quite a messy process. And presumably would see female athletes relegated down the ranks.
Maybe in time it is all just going to become a free-for-all with an emphasis on the best and most exciting competition rather than what the people look like, what body modifications they have had or (shock, horror) what chemicals they've taken.
The irony is that the Olympics has been insisting that intersex and trans athletes take certain chemicals, although this is currently in court. But does this produce a level playing field? Trans athletes argue that hormone blockers plus estrogen considerably diminish their performance, which seems correct. What is lacking is a long term study, comparing performances of cis female, intersex and trans athletes. Also, how many gold medals and Grand Slams have trans athletes won?
AIUI, rape and sexual assault are very common in US prisons--by prisoners and sometimes by prison staff. ISTM that trans folks might be a special target. I have no idea if they would be apt to assault/rape others. I presume that would depend on the individual.
From a different angle, and attempting to carefully word this:
Men in prison for sexually abusing kids reportedly have a very rough time in prison, because many of the men have kids. Probably, also, a good many are survivors of childhood sexual abuse as well. I'm not sure whether the targets are specifically pedophiles (sexually attracted to kids), or also molesters (abusing for other reasons, like power and acting out what happened to them).
I'm not remotely saying that trans folks are dangerous to kids. But some people target anyone who's different, especially if they find the person confusing, threatening, or outside what they consider the normal structures of reality. I think that at least some attacks on LGBT folks are motivated by that. (And I'm NOT remotely excusing the attacks.) Thinking of various news stories, some men react very, very badly if approached sexually by another man--even moreso if the person presents herself as a woman, but is suspected/found to be anatomically male. They see it as deception, and/or that they themselves are seen to be gay, or otherwise "deviant".
Plus, AIUI, male prisoners tend to socially divide into groups with very strict boundaries, and an individual has little (if any choice) about joining them. They get at least some protection by joining, and are in extreme danger if they don't.
So I suspect that any trans person, male or female, would encounter horrors in prison, especially if not protected.
Anyone know what Chelsea (formerly Bradley) Manning's experience was in federal prison? Was she in solitary? Tangentially, I think having to be closeted while in the military might have been behind her revealing classified info. She desperately need her secret to be out; but she didn't dare do that. So, consciously or not, that need may have been redirected into releasing other secrets. IMHO, YMMV.
The irony is that the Olympics has been insisting that intersex and trans athletes take certain chemicals, although this is currently in court. But does this produce a level playing field? Trans athletes argue that hormone blockers plus estrogen considerably diminish their performance, which seems correct. What is lacking is a long term study, comparing performances of cis female, intersex and trans athletes. Also, how many gold medals and Grand Slams have trans athletes won?
I agree on the study, but it is quite hard at this juncture to see how that could happen. If a trans athlete started winning everything, I'm guessing the protests would get quite loud.
As to the current situation, I'm no expert but I believe that very few trans (as opposed to intersex) athletes have competed at the highest levels - presumably because being an athlete requires a high level of concentration and dedication, which these athletes often can't give if they're constantly fighting battles to compete in the first place.
I'm absolutely no physiologist but I'd guess major surgery and years of taking medication are unlikely to mean that a person is running at peak performance during the narrow window of competition in most sports.
I dunno. Track and field athletics is a weird thing - it is as much about spectacle and how individuals look in spandex as performance.
More than say in track cycling, where people are hidden much more in the uniform.
But then I don't know whether hip shape has a significant impact on cycling speed - I rather guess that it does.
Going back to athletics, there is a fairly common fantasy, well, Piers Morgan was voicing it the other day, that unscrupulous men will realize that they can make money in women's sport, and will therefore transition, and haul in the gold medals and Grand Slams.
The only trans athlete I recall playing pro tennis was Renee Richards who was knocked out in the first round in the US Open. She also played Martina, and lost.
I guess the above scenario is theoretically possible, but if it happened, the rules would probably be changed, as with Semenya, who is not trans, but supposedly has high testosterone levels. In fact, it would probably lead to a ban.
Also, as a brief aside, I was watching wheelchair rugby at the weekend.
It is quite hard to get into, but two rules are interesting - first that it is fully integrated and second that each team must have a particular combination of abilities on the court at all times.
We don't *have* to have sports arranged as they are, splitting sexes and defining things.
In fact track and field might be a lot more exciting if it was rearranged to be a team sport with different athletes competing in different disciplines with differently defined criteria.
If memory serves, Chelsea Manning was in solitary. OTOH, I don’t think this was officially anything to do with being trans; it was about the severity of the alleged offences.
Going back to athletics, there is a fairly common fantasy, well, Piers Morgan was voicing it the other day, that unscrupulous men will realize that they can make money in women's sport, and will therefore transition, and haul in the gold medals and Grand Slams.
The only trans athlete I recall playing pro tennis was Renee Richards who was knocked out in the first round in the US Open. She also played Martina, and lost.
I guess the above scenario is theoretically possible, but if it happened, the rules would probably be changed, as with Semenya, who is not trans, but supposedly has high testosterone levels. In fact, it would probably lead to a ban.
I guess that one could define athletes by testosterone levels if that really is considered an overwhelming factor in terms of performance.
So in a 24hr supervised prison, how is this happening ? And/or you think your relative would have had no risk of a relationship with a woman and no access to contraceptive depot or implant ?
No such thing as a 24 hour supervised prison. Well, not in the UK. Drugs, phones, all kinds of contraband and activities go on. Apparently not even Big Brother is watching all the time, the things that inmates can get away with.
A good article demythologizing "THE BIG T!!!! and analyzing athletic excellence better than I can:
... This is because sport encompasses an enormous array of activities requiring vastly differing combinations of skills and physical capacities. When is power more important? When is finesse? How crucial is endurance? What about flexibility, hand-eye coordination, communication with teammates, strategy? When you hear “athleticism”, do you think of sprinting, where success is all about explosive speed? Or do you think of something like luge, where the ability to isolate body parts and make subtle adjustments, and to remain flexible and relaxed while going unprotected down a track at 90 miles an hour, are just as important as power? There is no one answer to these questions.
What is clear is that testosterone is not the unique essential ingredient for success across every conceivable sport. ...
Everyone is waiting for the Court of Arbitration for Sport to pronounce on the Semenya case. If they OK a reduction in permitted T, this could affect DSD and trans athletes. If they reject it, who knows. And as the above article outlines, many doubts are being cast on T as the main determiner of athletic performance. Some people are saying that Semenya's career would be finished, if the Court rules in favour of the IAAF, who in turn seem to be saying that women with normal levels of T will never win. Eh? How many trans women have won gold medals?
Just have to quote Jonathan Liew in the Independent, "They're coming, they're coming, with their giant bulging muscles, and enormous flapping penises, to ruin everything good. The trans people - and let's call them what they are - men in sports bras, are coming." This kid can write.
There are a few scattered around, including the boxer Patricio Manuel, but presumably, even though they are taking testosterone, it's not enough to produce a high performance. But maybe this will happen.
It's possible also that trans women excite greater hostility than trans men, for various reasons. There are plenty of narratives that sporty men will see a chance to make money, do a transition, and collect gold medals as women.
There's actually quite a bit, but not focussed on transgender rights. Rather focussed on implications and attempting to apply data.
When considering that there could be one category for competition, the following was written from here.
In athletics the rule of thumb places the elite performance gap at 11% – that is the top 10 men at any distance from 100m to an ultramarathon are about 11% faster than the top 10 women. The scientific evidence also shows that, on average, men have 80% more muscle mass in their upper bodies and 55% more in their legs. These are massive advantages – and they explain why a single category across all men’s and women’s sport would not work. Men would dominate every sport where speed, strength or power matters.
It goes on to discuss how it's not reasonable therefore because men have 80% more upper body muscle mass and 55% more in the lower body on average. We don't know if transitioned athletes benefit from prior male hormones in terms of height, muscle memory, but also be disadvantaged from moving a male-hormone-developed physique with a female hormone profile after transitioning. The above-noted article basically says "we don't know"; perhaps in the future this will be known. I suspect it will be sport by sport discussion. I doubt very much that there will be blanket statement about it for all sports.
As for cheating by taking hormones and qualifying for an event for a transitioned gender. Who knows? People do some crazy things in order to win. Here's about a cross country ski athlete caught blood doping . The link is in French, but you don't need to see other than picture/video to understand what's going on. The stakes are very high in sport and people do God knows what.
Various actors and singers coming out as non-binary, the latest is Sam Smith, "I'm neither male nor female", and duly mocked by Piers Morgan. I don't really know what this feels like, but then I don't know what anything feels like, in re
Is there no controversy with trans men competing in men's sporting events?
In almost every sport, the women can't outperform the men, so trans men don't have a competitive advantage from being trans. There have been high school wresting matches where boys have refused to wrestle with girls (citing modesty-related issues) but I don't know of an instance where a cis boy has refused to compete with a trans boy. There's probably an overlap between boys who don't want to touch girls and boys who think trans boys are girls, so I can see it being possible.
I've missed a lot of pages of this thread and there are too many posts to catch up.
Anyway, as briefly mentioned at the top of this page, there is a discussion currently about transgender athletes.
I'm not sure how to think about this issue. On the one hand, I can see it is about equality and fairness. On the other, I can also see that mascaline bodies are not just about testosterone, and it doesn't seem very controversial to suggest that someone who has gone through puberty as a male will have developed a particular bone and muscle structure distinct from a person who went through puberty as a woman.
On the other other hand, it seems equally uncontroversial that genetics are a significant factor in the achievement of elite athletes, so it seems a tad bizarre to be saying that "this kind" of genetic accident is perfectly fine but "this kind" is not.
One suggestion might be that sports become integrated and classified (in some way) like in the Paralympics. So "the best" compete against whoever is the best in their class.
But then that does seem quite a messy process. And presumably would see female athletes relegated down the ranks.
Maybe in time it is all just going to become a free-for-all with an emphasis on the best and most exciting competition rather than what the people look like, what body modifications they have had or (shock, horror) what chemicals they've taken.
This is mean difference (averages) and variation question. To consider this statistically, we know that on average that hormonal male body frames and muscle mass exceed that of hormonal female. A formerly hormonal male body can become hormonally female. For some sports it perhaps that this may equate those born female and those who take drugs/hormones to be female. However there are sports where a body which was formerly subject to male hormones will have developed in adolescence to adulthood an advantage from exposure to the male hormones. The question becomes whether this developmental advantage during maturation is reversed or equated because of taking female drugs/hormones.
The problem with the general free-for-all you propose is that for many sports we would have biological males and possibly the addition of hormonal males dominating and there would not be much for female and hormonal female athletes to compete in at all. The fight in female sport for equity with male is ongoing and has been very long. The sports I am familiar with in this regard are CIS (Canadian Interuniversity Sport) basketball, volleyball, curling, and national/international curling. There's no question at all that in these sports men have a competitive advantage. I suspect that that in some sports not, though cannot specify what these might be.
I did a search through my university access for actual research on this question a week or two ago. There isn't much at all available.
If a transgender female has hormone treatment early enough that male puberty never really happens for her, she might still have some advantages over cisgender females in athletics from having been born with a male body, but would it be significantly less than the advantages a transgender female who had hormone treatment after puberty would have? Should this be taken into consideration in deciding whether or not a transgender woman can compete in female athletic events?
I agree that we should keep having separate female athletic events, although it will never be 100% clear how to define who should be allowed to compete and the definition will probably continue to change over time.
However, I think that all people, women included, should be able to compete in "men's" sporting events if they wish to and can demonstrate enough talent.
Bollocks to that. Nobody has done a long term study of trans athletes, although the Olympics are supposed to be. Performance can be reduced, but it's not an exact science, and there are anomalies. Court case on Semenya coming soon, although she is not trans.
There have been high school wresting matches where boys have refused to wrestle with girls (citing modesty-related issues) but I don't know of an instance where a cis boy has refused to compete with a trans boy.
Has the possibility ever arisen? It would be very rare given the small proportion of the population which is trans.
Bollocks to that. Nobody has done a long term study of trans athletes, although the Olympics are supposed to be. Performance can be reduced, but it's not an exact science, and there are anomalies. Court case on Semenya coming soon, although she is not trans.
And I suppose no one has tried to compare trans women who started hormone therapy before puberty to those who started it afterwards. How much of the bodily development that gives men certain advantages over women in athletics occurs after puberty?
As Gee D said, there probably aren't enough trans athletes to do a comprehensive study. Incidentally, plenty of famous women athletes are asking the Olympics to ban trans women. I doubt if they will, as they have been wrestling with this for 50 years.
I think it's the post-puberty development that gives the advantages to men. Up to a certain age, boys and girls are similar.
Has the possibility ever arisen? It would be very rare given the small proportion of the population which is trans.
Mr. Google tells me that there's a trans boy, Mack Beggs, wrestling in Texas - but by the state of Texas's rules, he has to compete in the girls' competition, and has twice won the state championship. Mr. Beggs wants to wrestle boys.
There are other trans boys wrestling in boys' tournaments in other states, but mostly they're not news - they're just kids on a school wrestling team.
That reminds of the toilet rules in some areas, whereby a muscly, bearded trans male is supposed to go to the women's toilet. In practice, I bet they go to the male toilets, and nobody will notice.
I think it's the post-puberty development that gives the advantages to men. Up to a certain age, boys and girls are similar.
I'm not sure that is so - years of teaching PE in the gym to children of 8 to 9 years showed that there are differences in, for example, the ability to climb ropes and other apparatus. This was confirmed to me by a colleague who had trained at a PE college who claimed that girl's upper body strength was less than that of boys - in a discussion about my own childhood failure to climb ropes.
Well, Simone Biles freaked everyone out by climbing to the top of a rope, at some tender age. But she is exceptional. I thought in athletics, (running), boys and girls have similar times, but now I will go and check.
I think it's premature to draw conclusions about the limits or extremes of human performance for any sex/gender, for social as well as biological factors including drugs. Most girls are pressured from birth to be less physically active and daring, boys are allowed and encouraged, so it's no surprise pre-pubertal differences show up.
Individual cases won't persuade at all, they mean only something about that individual. Which is not really improved from what I found published. They are really not very good indicators of anything.
I found a smattering of articles like this one, which have small samples and are specific to a sport. In this case we have young people who are in good fitness and won't have nearly the social influences to not be active. It shows that for competitive swimmer children that boys strength exceeds that of girls at pre-puberty ages. But what is the real world significance? Dunno. They don't tell us if the boys' coaching is different, whether girls don't do weight training and boys do, number of hours of weekly practice, how long the kids were doing the sport.
This one has the opposite finding with a similarly small sample. We don't know the activity level of the children and if there was any selection bias etc again. We don't know the year to year developmental comparison from the ages studied (11-16) which would be interesting.
Comments
Paris Green (in prison for murder, so not a sex offender) was sent to Cornton Vale (Scotland's prison for women) in 2013. She had consensual PIV sex with other inmates and was moved to the female wing of Saughton jail, where she had consensual PIV sex with other inmates....
However she has had / is due to have gender reassignment surgery, so will be able to remain in a women's prison for the rest of her sentence.
Functionally, a rapist can rape in a prison of either gender - with or without a penis because object rape is a reality. Does it matter which gender a (very rare) trans rapist rapes - or is it more of a concern that a prison is so badly run it is possible for anyone to assault anyone.
There is a two-child cap on benefits. If a woman had two children and conceived a third child in prison, presumably the government would have to lump "conceived whilst a guest of Her Majesty" as a category within the rape clause? Presumably the government would have to guarantee payment of state benefits to any child conceived in prison? Even consensual sex in prison is a grey area in terms of consent.
Sharron Davies has chipped in, but angered gender activists by saying that trans people "wish to be trans". This is a common idea, that gender non-conformity is a decision made by the GNC person. So is cis gender chosen? It reminds me of the "lifestyle" comment that used to made about gays and lesbians.
Anyway, as briefly mentioned at the top of this page, there is a discussion currently about transgender athletes.
I'm not sure how to think about this issue. On the one hand, I can see it is about equality and fairness. On the other, I can also see that mascaline bodies are not just about testosterone, and it doesn't seem very controversial to suggest that someone who has gone through puberty as a male will have developed a particular bone and muscle structure distinct from a person who went through puberty as a woman.
On the other other hand, it seems equally uncontroversial that genetics are a significant factor in the achievement of elite athletes, so it seems a tad bizarre to be saying that "this kind" of genetic accident is perfectly fine but "this kind" is not.
One suggestion might be that sports become integrated and classified (in some way) like in the Paralympics. So "the best" compete against whoever is the best in their class.
But then that does seem quite a messy process. And presumably would see female athletes relegated down the ranks.
Maybe in time it is all just going to become a free-for-all with an emphasis on the best and most exciting competition rather than what the people look like, what body modifications they have had or (shock, horror) what chemicals they've taken.
From a different angle, and attempting to carefully word this:
Men in prison for sexually abusing kids reportedly have a very rough time in prison, because many of the men have kids. Probably, also, a good many are survivors of childhood sexual abuse as well. I'm not sure whether the targets are specifically pedophiles (sexually attracted to kids), or also molesters (abusing for other reasons, like power and acting out what happened to them).
I'm not remotely saying that trans folks are dangerous to kids. But some people target anyone who's different, especially if they find the person confusing, threatening, or outside what they consider the normal structures of reality. I think that at least some attacks on LGBT folks are motivated by that. (And I'm NOT remotely excusing the attacks.) Thinking of various news stories, some men react very, very badly if approached sexually by another man--even moreso if the person presents herself as a woman, but is suspected/found to be anatomically male. They see it as deception, and/or that they themselves are seen to be gay, or otherwise "deviant".
Plus, AIUI, male prisoners tend to socially divide into groups with very strict boundaries, and an individual has little (if any choice) about joining them. They get at least some protection by joining, and are in extreme danger if they don't.
So I suspect that any trans person, male or female, would encounter horrors in prison, especially if not protected.
Anyone know what Chelsea (formerly Bradley) Manning's experience was in federal prison? Was she in solitary? Tangentially, I think having to be closeted while in the military might have been behind her revealing classified info. She desperately need her secret to be out; but she didn't dare do that. So, consciously or not, that need may have been redirected into releasing other secrets. IMHO, YMMV.
I agree on the study, but it is quite hard at this juncture to see how that could happen. If a trans athlete started winning everything, I'm guessing the protests would get quite loud.
As to the current situation, I'm no expert but I believe that very few trans (as opposed to intersex) athletes have competed at the highest levels - presumably because being an athlete requires a high level of concentration and dedication, which these athletes often can't give if they're constantly fighting battles to compete in the first place.
I'm absolutely no physiologist but I'd guess major surgery and years of taking medication are unlikely to mean that a person is running at peak performance during the narrow window of competition in most sports.
I dunno. Track and field athletics is a weird thing - it is as much about spectacle and how individuals look in spandex as performance.
More than say in track cycling, where people are hidden much more in the uniform.
But then I don't know whether hip shape has a significant impact on cycling speed - I rather guess that it does.
The only trans athlete I recall playing pro tennis was Renee Richards who was knocked out in the first round in the US Open. She also played Martina, and lost.
I guess the above scenario is theoretically possible, but if it happened, the rules would probably be changed, as with Semenya, who is not trans, but supposedly has high testosterone levels. In fact, it would probably lead to a ban.
It is quite hard to get into, but two rules are interesting - first that it is fully integrated and second that each team must have a particular combination of abilities on the court at all times.
We don't *have* to have sports arranged as they are, splitting sexes and defining things.
In fact track and field might be a lot more exciting if it was rearranged to be a team sport with different athletes competing in different disciplines with differently defined criteria.
I guess that one could define athletes by testosterone levels if that really is considered an overwhelming factor in terms of performance.
No such thing as a 24 hour supervised prison. Well, not in the UK. Drugs, phones, all kinds of contraband and activities go on. Apparently not even Big Brother is watching all the time, the things that inmates can get away with.
Stop talking about testosterone
It's possible also that trans women excite greater hostility than trans men, for various reasons. There are plenty of narratives that sporty men will see a chance to make money, do a transition, and collect gold medals as women.
When considering that there could be one category for competition, the following was written from here.
It goes on to discuss how it's not reasonable therefore because men have 80% more upper body muscle mass and 55% more in the lower body on average. We don't know if transitioned athletes benefit from prior male hormones in terms of height, muscle memory, but also be disadvantaged from moving a male-hormone-developed physique with a female hormone profile after transitioning. The above-noted article basically says "we don't know"; perhaps in the future this will be known. I suspect it will be sport by sport discussion. I doubt very much that there will be blanket statement about it for all sports.
As for cheating by taking hormones and qualifying for an event for a transitioned gender. Who knows? People do some crazy things in order to win. Here's about a cross country ski athlete caught blood doping . The link is in French, but you don't need to see other than picture/video to understand what's going on. The stakes are very high in sport and people do God knows what.
In almost every sport, the women can't outperform the men, so trans men don't have a competitive advantage from being trans. There have been high school wresting matches where boys have refused to wrestle with girls (citing modesty-related issues) but I don't know of an instance where a cis boy has refused to compete with a trans boy. There's probably an overlap between boys who don't want to touch girls and boys who think trans boys are girls, so I can see it being possible.
This is mean difference (averages) and variation question. To consider this statistically, we know that on average that hormonal male body frames and muscle mass exceed that of hormonal female. A formerly hormonal male body can become hormonally female. For some sports it perhaps that this may equate those born female and those who take drugs/hormones to be female. However there are sports where a body which was formerly subject to male hormones will have developed in adolescence to adulthood an advantage from exposure to the male hormones. The question becomes whether this developmental advantage during maturation is reversed or equated because of taking female drugs/hormones.
The problem with the general free-for-all you propose is that for many sports we would have biological males and possibly the addition of hormonal males dominating and there would not be much for female and hormonal female athletes to compete in at all. The fight in female sport for equity with male is ongoing and has been very long. The sports I am familiar with in this regard are CIS (Canadian Interuniversity Sport) basketball, volleyball, curling, and national/international curling. There's no question at all that in these sports men have a competitive advantage. I suspect that that in some sports not, though cannot specify what these might be.
I did a search through my university access for actual research on this question a week or two ago. There isn't much at all available.
I agree that we should keep having separate female athletic events, although it will never be 100% clear how to define who should be allowed to compete and the definition will probably continue to change over time.
However, I think that all people, women included, should be able to compete in "men's" sporting events if they wish to and can demonstrate enough talent.
Has the possibility ever arisen? It would be very rare given the small proportion of the population which is trans.
And I suppose no one has tried to compare trans women who started hormone therapy before puberty to those who started it afterwards. How much of the bodily development that gives men certain advantages over women in athletics occurs after puberty?
I think it's the post-puberty development that gives the advantages to men. Up to a certain age, boys and girls are similar.
Mr. Google tells me that there's a trans boy, Mack Beggs, wrestling in Texas - but by the state of Texas's rules, he has to compete in the girls' competition, and has twice won the state championship. Mr. Beggs wants to wrestle boys.
There are other trans boys wrestling in boys' tournaments in other states, but mostly they're not news - they're just kids on a school wrestling team.
I'm not sure that is so - years of teaching PE in the gym to children of 8 to 9 years showed that there are differences in, for example, the ability to climb ropes and other apparatus. This was confirmed to me by a colleague who had trained at a PE college who claimed that girl's upper body strength was less than that of boys - in a discussion about my own childhood failure to climb ropes.
I found a smattering of articles like this one, which have small samples and are specific to a sport. In this case we have young people who are in good fitness and won't have nearly the social influences to not be active. It shows that for competitive swimmer children that boys strength exceeds that of girls at pre-puberty ages. But what is the real world significance? Dunno. They don't tell us if the boys' coaching is different, whether girls don't do weight training and boys do, number of hours of weekly practice, how long the kids were doing the sport.
This one has the opposite finding with a similarly small sample. We don't know the activity level of the children and if there was any selection bias etc again. We don't know the year to year developmental comparison from the ages studied (11-16) which would be interesting.
I have never been able to climb a rope. I think it's witchcraft, frankly. I can't even imagine being able to do it.