Appropriateness for SoF

13

Comments

  • anoesisanoesis Shipmate
    I have yet to see what it offers as a forum that Facebook doesn't, other than the Christian element.
    Speaking purely for myself, one of the main things it offers is that it isn't facebook, and isn't trying to be.
    I think your ideal member is someone who is community-minded.
    Honestly - you cannot swing a cat, here, without thwacking a dozen introverts in the face. There is a much higher proportion of persons of the inherently internal/self-sufficient/slightly socially maladapted sort, than you would encounter out on any given street. But it is a safe place to be so. Also, the great joy of the ship is that you go to it - you interact with others, as and when you feel able/inclined, to the level you feel comfortable with. And if you're not in that place, you can just not visit. No-one spams you, if you haven't logged in for a while, no-one's pissy with you if you return, not having participated for quite some time. Yes, it's a community - one of the best ones I know. But don't know that I'd say it is largely composed of particularly community-minded individuals...
  • [quote="anoesis;c-122672"
    Honestly - you cannot swing a cat, here, without thwacking a dozen introverts in the face. There is a much higher proportion of persons of the inherently internal/self-sufficient/slightly socially maladapted sort, than you would encounter out on any given street. But it is a safe place to be so. Also, the great joy of the ship is that you go to it - you interact with others, as and when you feel able/inclined, to the level you feel comfortable with. And if you're not in that place, you can just not visit. No-one spams you, if you haven't logged in for a while, no-one's pissy with you if you return, not having participated for quite some time. Yes, it's a community - one of the best ones I know. But don't know that I'd say it is largely composed of particularly community-minded individuals...[/quote]

    Thank you. That does make me feel less of a square peg.

    Basically, I feel a bit awkward here and some people are critical of my motives for being here and I seem to have rubbed some people up the wrong way. So I'm trying to figure out where the issues are and work out whether I can fit in or if it really isn't for me.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I think of the Like button as a kind of constructive feedback.
    Eutychus wrote: »
    No, it's the kind of thing to encourage sycophancy.

    Both are true. Like all tools it can be used or misused.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    I'm trying to figure out where the issues are and work out whether I can fit in or if it really isn't for me.

    You could try not pushing your luck as to whether the "Pending" thread tips into qualifying as being more about homework than about the more general question your OP raised.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Suspended
    edited March 2019
    Eutychus wrote: »
    You could try not pushing your luck as to whether the "Pending" thread tips into qualifying as being more about homework than about the more general question your OP raised.

    I wasn't aware that I was.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Well, the hosts haven't reacted yet, and it's their call in the first instance, but in view of the more specific direction the thread has taken recently, I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

    If your interest is in fitting in, I suggest branching out a bit more.
  • Erik the SwiftErik the Swift Shipmate Posts: 3
    I've heard the ship likened to a pub a number of times (including on this thread) and I quite like it as an analogy. I like the image of an informal gathering of people who have chosen to come here, stay here and have ended up getting to know people they may not normally meet. Quite a large part of the ship is the understanding of people that you build up over time, through many, many small interactions which on the face of it may seem insignificant. There are people here who I have never met yet who I feel connected to. I have wept at their troubles and their passing and celebrated their achievements. And I am someone who very rarely posts (although I visit almost every day and have been a member for 10+ years).

    But it seems as if you are coming in and wanting a quick solution to your problem. You've wandered into the pub and started asking people about some potentially quite deep stuff with the impression that once you've got your answers you'll be off. Now some people are happy with that but I think there is a risk some people could end up feeling used. It's great that you're honest about your motivations but not everyone is going to feel comfortable with them.

    The thing is, the act of observing changes the thing that is being observed. I think if you want a more authentic, truer picture of people's faith you need to engage with them fully. Pull up a chair, grab a pint and join the discussion. You don't need a faith to be here. There are plenty of people with no faith/lost faith/gained faith/unsure faith. There are probably very few things everyone here would agree on. But the problem is that that is slow. And I get the impression you are looking for a quick answer so you can move on. There will be some quick answers here but they may not be the full answer.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    Well, the hosts haven't reacted yet, and it's their call in the first instance, but in view of the more specific direction the thread has taken recently, I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

    If your interest is in fitting in, I suggest branching out a bit more.

    I have commented on several other threads. I am not responsible for the direction Pending is taking. All I'm doing is responding to people's comments/observations.
  • I've heard the ship likened to a pub a number of times (including on this thread) and I quite like it as an analogy. I like the image of an informal gathering of people who have chosen to come here, stay here and have ended up getting to know people they may not normally meet. Quite a large part of the ship is the understanding of people that you build up over time, through many, many small interactions which on the face of it may seem insignificant. There are people here who I have never met yet who I feel connected to. I have wept at their troubles and their passing and celebrated their achievements. And I am someone who very rarely posts (although I visit almost every day and have been a member for 10+ years).

    But it seems as if you are coming in and wanting a quick solution to your problem. You've wandered into the pub and started asking people about some potentially quite deep stuff with the impression that once you've got your answers you'll be off. Now some people are happy with that but I think there is a risk some people could end up feeling used. It's great that you're honest about your motivations but not everyone is going to feel comfortable with them.

    The thing is, the act of observing changes the thing that is being observed. I think if you want a more authentic, truer picture of people's faith you need to engage with them fully. Pull up a chair, grab a pint and join the discussion. You don't need a faith to be here. There are plenty of people with no faith/lost faith/gained faith/unsure faith. There are probably very few things everyone here would agree on. But the problem is that that is slow. And I get the impression you are looking for a quick answer so you can move on. There will be some quick answers here but they may not be the full answer.

    Thank you. The issue is one of time management more than anything else. I only have limited time online and lots to do. I understand why some people would feel used.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Colin Smith

    Having arrived late "to the party" (largely because in RL I was at another party) I'm going to add a few words about the purpose and ethos of Purgatory, and why homework threads depart from both purpose and ethos.

    The purpose is well explained in the introductory note to the Purgatory forum. Here is the key extract from the Purgatory Guidelines
    Pull up a chair, get your brain in gear, and prepare for some serious time in Purgatory. This is where your ideas, views and beliefs can be refined and made fit for Heaven! Purgatory is our serious discussion space – where theological, ethical, political, social and cultural issues are discussed from a Christian perspective. All views are welcome – orthodox, unorthodox, radical or just plain bizarre – so long as you can stand being challenged.

    Since all discussions are started by an opening post (OP), the OP gives the initial scope for the discussion. Issues are framed. The discussion does not have to remain within that frame, it can branch out as the discussion develops. But the purpose is definitely not to help any Shipmate to do homework, complete a novel. The purpose is to air and discuss the issues themselves.

    Now you have been very honest both here and in the OP, as this post makes clear
    The discussion here is actually about how I can get what I want while keeping everyone happy.

    That's where you cross the normal Purgatory line. Your primary purpose is not to engage in serious discussion but to collect information to help you shape a character in a novel. As others have observed you could have done do covertly and we might never have known. But you would have. And now we know you have this purpose, you have created a problem of credibility for yourself. Is Colin really interested in this discussion, or is he simply information gathering for his primary purpose?

    And that is where the ethos comes in. Serious discussion of issues requires sincere engagement in the serious discussion process. That is the expectation. We may not always live up to it, and the 10Cs and guidelines are pretty tolerant re enforcement of that expectation. But the expectation is that folks will engage with the discussion for the sake of the discussion, not for any other motive.

    Both purpose and ethos support the same basic idea, to protect the process of serious discussion and prevent it being misused for reasons of personal agenda. You can see those principles being articulated in Commandments 8 and 9 from the 10Cs
    8. Don’t crusade – Don’t promote personal crusades. This space is not here for people to pursue specific agendas and win converts.

    9. Don’t advertise or spam – Don’t advertise your site or product, or lift email addresses to spam our members.

    Obviously "homework" is neither about crusading or advertising, but the same principle is at work. Crusading, advertising and doing homework are all about using the forum for purposes other than serious discussion.

    I suppose we could have added "homework" into Commandment 9 but we never have. The general principle is left to Hosts and Admin to apply. Serious discussion is about issues, not personal agenda.

    Like RooK, I tip my hat to you for your personal honesty, but I hope you can see how you crossed the line, and why we have it.

    But the Styx exists precisely to discuss whether our lines make sense, whether they might be modified in the light of experience. Personally I don't this line should be modified, but in the end that's not my call. It's down to Admins after considering the arguments and representations here.
  • I vote for leaving the "No Homework" rule intact, and enforcing it strictly. I don't come here to be a rat in somebody's maze.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I vote for leaving the "No Homework" rule intact, and enforcing it strictly. I don't come here to be a rat in somebody's maze.

    This. And there is another shipmate, whose frequent threads in Kerygmania have had me thinking he is saying to himself (pretty sure it is a he) "Let's see what they do with this one" in the way a research scientist might say with the tests set for mice.
  • Cathscats wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I vote for leaving the "No Homework" rule intact, and enforcing it strictly. I don't come here to be a rat in somebody's maze.

    This. And there is another shipmate, whose frequent threads in Kerygmania have had me thinking he is saying to himself (pretty sure it is a he) "Let's see what they do with this one" in the way a research scientist might say with the tests set for mice.

    That seems to me to be different. One can always choose not to participate.

    The distinction, I think, is where someone is directly using the other people's typed thoughts as a resource for their own material benefit.

    Imagine an online code-cracking contest. One might join a group of excited people to crack it together, just for the fun of it. Or one might join a group in order to gain enough information that you can personally win the prize.

    I don't think asking lots of questions is necessarily the latter scenario, and am not sure how we'd know for sure if it was. But that's quite different if the person is telling you that this is what they are doing.
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    Cathscats wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I vote for leaving the "No Homework" rule intact, and enforcing it strictly. I don't come here to be a rat in somebody's maze.

    This. And there is another shipmate, whose frequent threads in Kerygmania have had me thinking he is saying to himself (pretty sure it is a he) "Let's see what they do with this one" in the way a research scientist might say with the tests set for mice.

    That seems to me to be different. One can always choose not to participate.

    You are right, and I do.
  • As @Barnabas62 said earlier, the Commandments and Guidelines exist to try and promote the highest possible quality of discussion here. We recognise that there are several ways people can act to the detriment of that aim. But, maybe it's best if we don't open out this thread into all of those, and rather concentrate on the specific question of "homework threads".
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    I thought it was evident from the themes of my posts that I am a woman. And I am not writing any essays or researching a book. I am on a personal Star Trek mission to explore the known limits of theology and discover what and where they are. It's not about what you might do with it but where it might lead and what it might reveal. And I'm always pleased when someone offers a completely different view or opinion because it can open up whole new vistas of thought. Participation is optional but you might have fun joining in as and when you are interested.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    I vote for leaving the "No Homework" rule intact, and enforcing it strictly. I don't come here to be a rat in somebody's maze.

    Or have a homework board?

  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Maybe the 8th Day could be used to trial homeowrk threads.
  • Caissa wrote: »
    Maybe the 8th Day could be used to trial homeowrk threads.

    Or corral them. I doubt they would get much response, least of all from those able to contribute in a meaningful way.
  • Caissa wrote: »
    Maybe the 8th Day could be used to trial homeowrk threads.

    If any Shipmates want to explore this, details of how to put an application in for the 8th Day board are here.

    But I can't see the policy changing anytime soon for the reasons given in @Barnabas62's excellent post. The Ship is a place for serious discussion and to promote "Christian Unrest". Getting others to do your work for you isn't unrestful IMO.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    @Tubbs said - The Ship is a place for serious discussion and to promote "Christian Unrest". Getting others to do your work for you isn't unrestful IMO.

    Not the whole Ship. The circus, heaven, All Saints - none of these are for serious discussion. They have other purposes.

    ‘Doing your work for you’ isn’t what @Colin Smith was after. He wanted to explore his ideas with us. I agree that a discussion board (Purgatory, Eccles etc) isn’t the place. But the Ship could accommodate this kind of query somewhere, surely?

    There’s nothing unrestful about blocking out enquiring minds.
  • Not a meaningful application of the criterion. There's nothing unrestful about blocking unsolicited advertisements either. That doesn't mean that unsolicited advertisements are unrestful. In like manner, using us to write your novel isn't unrestful, and could have a detrimental effect on unrestfulness.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    Boogie wrote: »

    There’s nothing unrestful about blocking out enquiring minds.

    Ok - so please explain where it would end. How does anyone moderate it, and what happens if someone's thoughts subsequently end up in a book or a doctoral thesis?

    The present situation is imperfect (someone could, theoretically cut-and-paste ideas from here) but then the threads are both culled regularly and are unlikely to directly address the query of a lurker who wanted to was using it for his own purposes.

    For example someone might, vaguely, learn something about Kant from recent threads - but it is fairly clearly less than he'd get from an OP that just asked "What is Kant on about when he said X?"

    It's not an immoral question and obviously nothing wrong with writing about it for money.

    But hard to see how it could be accommodated here.

  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    I am not sure it has to be moderated. I am sure that people have used questions and posts on The Ship for homework. All the current policy does is stop individuals who are being explicit about their intentions.
  • Caissa wrote: »
    I am not sure it has to be moderated. I am sure that people have used questions and posts on The Ship for homework. All the current policy does is stop individuals who are being explicit about their intentions.

    Why do you think that's a bad thing?
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Because the policy does not prevent the actions it is designed to prevent.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    Caissa wrote: »
    Because the policy does not prevent the actions it is designed to prevent.

    I do feel rather middle aged these days, but as far as I recall these rulings have frequently - nay perhaps almost always - applied to OPs that have refrained from saying that it was a homework thread.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Colin Smith

    Having arrived late "to the party" (largely because in RL I was at another party) I'm going to add a few words about the purpose and ethos of Purgatory, and why homework threads depart from both purpose and ethos.

    The purpose is well explained in the introductory note to the Purgatory forum. Here is the key extract from the Purgatory Guidelines
    Pull up a chair, get your brain in gear, and prepare for some serious time in Purgatory. This is where your ideas, views and beliefs can be refined and made fit for Heaven! Purgatory is our serious discussion space – where theological, ethical, political, social and cultural issues are discussed from a Christian perspective. All views are welcome – orthodox, unorthodox, radical or just plain bizarre – so long as you can stand being challenged.

    Since all discussions are started by an opening post (OP), the OP gives the initial scope for the discussion. Issues are framed. The discussion does not have to remain within that frame, it can branch out as the discussion develops. But the purpose is definitely not to help any Shipmate to do homework, complete a novel. The purpose is to air and discuss the issues themselves.

    Now you have been very honest both here and in the OP, as this post makes clear
    The discussion here is actually about how I can get what I want while keeping everyone happy.

    That's where you cross the normal Purgatory line. Your primary purpose is not to engage in serious discussion but to collect information to help you shape a character in a novel. As others have observed you could have done do covertly and we might never have known. But you would have. And now we know you have this purpose, you have created a problem of credibility for yourself. Is Colin really interested in this discussion, or is he simply information gathering for his primary purpose?

    And that is where the ethos comes in. Serious discussion of issues requires sincere engagement in the serious discussion process. That is the expectation. We may not always live up to it, and the 10Cs and guidelines are pretty tolerant re enforcement of that expectation. But the expectation is that folks will engage with the discussion for the sake of the discussion, not for any other motive.

    Both purpose and ethos support the same basic idea, to protect the process of serious discussion and prevent it being misused for reasons of personal agenda. You can see those principles being articulated in Commandments 8 and 9 from the 10Cs
    8. Don’t crusade – Don’t promote personal crusades. This space is not here for people to pursue specific agendas and win converts.

    9. Don’t advertise or spam – Don’t advertise your site or product, or lift email addresses to spam our members.

    Obviously "homework" is neither about crusading or advertising, but the same principle is at work. Crusading, advertising and doing homework are all about using the forum for purposes other than serious discussion.

    I suppose we could have added "homework" into Commandment 9 but we never have. The general principle is left to Hosts and Admin to apply. Serious discussion is about issues, not personal agenda.

    Like RooK, I tip my hat to you for your personal honesty, but I hope you can see how you crossed the line, and why we have it.

    But the Styx exists precisely to discuss whether our lines make sense, whether they might be modified in the light of experience. Personally I don't this line should be modified, but in the end that's not my call. It's down to Admins after considering the arguments and representations here.

    I apologise for having misunderstood the purpose of 'purgatory' and in fact misunderstood the purpose of SoF as a whole. My assumption when I joined was that it was a potential resource. That was wrong. Given that my actual question has been answered in the 'no' I don't really see I can add anything more. In fact, if I had the power I would delete my opening post and with it the entire thread.
  • Boogie wrote: »

    ‘Doing your work for you’ isn’t what @Colin Smith was after. He wanted to explore his ideas with us. I agree that a discussion board (Purgatory, Eccles etc) isn’t the place. But the Ship could accommodate this kind of query somewhere, surely?

    There’s nothing unrestful about blocking out enquiring minds.



    The bit in bold would have been my ideal.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    The fact that so many individuals responded on the thread in question indicates either that they do not support the "no homework: rule or that they did not consider Mr. Smith's inquiry to be "homework".
  • Caissa wrote: »
    The fact that so many individuals responded on the thread in question indicates either that they do not support the "no homework: rule or that they did not consider Mr. Smith's inquiry to be "homework".

    I was delighted so many were willing to share and that some were even curious about what I was writing.
  • Caissa wrote: »
    The fact that so many individuals responded on the thread in question indicates either that they do not support the "no homework: rule or that they did not consider Mr. Smith's inquiry to be "homework".

    Or that most people are naturally disposed to talk about themselves if asked.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    edited March 2019
    Caissa wrote: »
    The fact that so many individuals responded on the thread in question indicates either that they do not support the "no homework: rule or that they did not consider Mr. Smith's inquiry to be "homework".

    Let's see how many petition here for the no homework rule to be changed, explaining why they think the current rule is restrictive of, or inconsistent with, the aim of serious discussion.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Cathscats wrote: »
    This. And there is another shipmate, whose frequent threads in Kerygmania have had me thinking he is saying to himself (pretty sure it is a he) "Let's see what they do with this one" in the way a research scientist might say with the tests set for mice.

    Once again, the Styx is no place for thinly disguised Hell threads.

    Either name and if you see fit, shame, and do so in Hell, or if you have a grievance or question about host/admin policy, do it here in the Styx, but please don't mix the two.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Caissa wrote: »
    The fact that so many individuals responded on the thread in question indicates either that they do not support the "no homework: rule or that they did not consider Mr. Smith's inquiry to be "homework".

    Let's see how many petition here for the no homework rule to be changed, explaining why they think the current rule is restrictive of, or inconsistent with, the aim of serious discussion.

    Or if anyone can get together an 8th Day board for homework threads.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    8th Day boards are temporary, so that's not really a solution.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    We used to have sigs - which were sometimes adverts for things shipmates were interested in. I can't remember specifically if anyone used them for this kind of purpose ("homework"), but I can't see that it was ever flagged before as the wrong way to use sigs.

    Maybe there could be a thread or board where people could posts a short (say 3 line) description of their interest or project or homework. Shipmates could then DM or contact in some other way to continue to discuss if they are interested.

    No further discussion is needed, just flagging things up for others to take an interest if they want to.

    I'm not sure it would work practically or technically.

    But presumably it isn't totally inconsistent with the way things are done here given that we had sigs (often linking to off-site pages of various types) for such a long time.
  • Ruth wrote: »
    8th Day boards are temporary, so that's not really a solution.

    I realise 8th Day boards are temporary, but they have been used to trial ideas in the past; whether or not there is enough interest to put together a board would be indicative. I was also responding to the suggestion which originally came from @Caissa that the 8th Day board should be used.
  • Homework and research threads are all very well, but one needs an authoritative and credible response for anything that will be published (or even put in front of a Year Seven teachr). I've no doubt such a response can appear her, provided that the question is well-phrased, but it can be a heck of a job separating the wheat from the chaff, and on an internet forum there is a lot of chaff. Even Wikipedia entries need to be verified.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Colin Smith

    Thanks for your reply. No need for an apology, it can take time to learn how this place works. I wish you well with your book and hope you hang around. Ship of Fools contains a pretty diverse range of both Christians and folks of other beliefs. I think we veer to the liberal end of the Christian rainbow, but we disagree a lot! I think you might get some interesting insights by hanging around and participating. But whatever you decide to do, very best wishes.
  • Lyda wrote: »
    SusanDoris wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    Well, male authors write from female perspectives and vice-versa. Young authors write from the perspective of elders. Twentieth century people have written from the point of view of Ancient Romans and medieval monks and eighteenth century gentry. Sometimes writing outside your own box can be stimulating. And doing as Colin Smith is doing by talking to people who have the experience of practicing Christianity is a good way to get a feel for it.

    Two of my favorite authors who wrote on spiritual matters were atheist/agnostic. They were Ursula K. LeGuin and Terry Pratchett. They wrote in ways about the spiritual that a believer might not and were all the better for it.
    Ah, yes, but I wonder - is there a big difference between writing from the first person in such cases instead of the third? I do not know, because I am 100% NOT a writer!!
    I don't think I've ever read Ursula K Le Guin. Is there something shortish of hers you'd recommend? I've heard the name of course, but cannot recall reading anything by her.

    I've got to admit that the stories and books I'm thinking about are generally third person. Off the top of my head, I enjoyed Friday by Robert Heinlein, a first person story of a woman from the future. Which is funny because he was a pretty old school sexist but the book was still enjoyable to me. Another better one as a first person female is The Fault in Our Stars by John Green

    As to LeGuin, I'd recommend Buffalo Gals, Won't You Come Out Tonight for a very good short story of hers. Also a pretty easy read to see LeGuin in spiritual mode (but no God) is the third book in her "Earthsea" series, The Farthest Shore. She published a good number of short story anthologies that you could browse.
    [/quote]
    With help from Roo K and Colin Smith I am in the right place here to comment on reading some of Ursula LeGuin's work. I wrote this the other day:
    In one of the book discussions the subject of Ursula LeGuin came up and I obviously had to remedy a lack in my life, since I had never read anything of hers! I tried the first of the Earthsea Chronicles' but could not find a connection, even though I listened to the first part. I then ordered (from the NLB) a copy of 'Compass Rose' short stories and have listened to most of the first section. Here again, though, I cannot find a link between the stories and me. The reader is very goodand the use of language is of a high quality, but I find it well, not exactly pretentious, but failing to communicate. This wouldn't matter if some kind of image, or background picture comes to mind, but there is nothing for me. It is not even a black and white, it just is a voice from a blank background. So far, the "characters" have no shape or size, even though with an effort I could work out the latter in two of the stories.

    I think it was mousethief who was particularly recommending the author,
    Well, I got that wrong!! It was you, Lyda, thank you.
    and I would be interested in being guided in what I am missing and why. Unfortunately, the NLB only have about three of her books
    I hope I'm putting it in the right place.

    I look forward to reading your comments on this.
  • Hey! I recommended her too. <pouts>
  • SusanDoris wrote: »
    I tried the first of the Earthsea Chronicles' but could not find a connection, even though I listened to the first part. I then ordered (from the NLB) a copy of 'Compass Rose' short stories and have listened to most of the first section. Here again, though, I cannot find a link between the stories and me.
    I look forward to reading your comments on this.

    I'm wondering why you feel the need for a connection with yourself. I read in order to be taken out of myself and to become someone or something else.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Hey! I recommended her too. <pouts>
    Yes, I thought you did :) thank you!
    SusanDoris wrote: »
    I tried the first of the Earthsea Chronicles' but could not find a connection, even though I listened to the first part. I then ordered (from the NLB) a copy of 'Compass Rose' short stories and have listened to most of the first section. Here again, though, I cannot find a link between the stories and me.
    I look forward to reading your comments on this.

    I'm wondering why you feel the need for a connection with yourself. I read in order to be taken out of myself and to become someone or something else.
    Mmmmm, yes, I can see that's another way of putting it - but I wasn't taken out of myself although I was listening with no bias or barrier.

  • SusanDoris wrote: »
    Mmmmm, yes, I can see that's another way of putting it - but I wasn't taken out of myself although I was listening with no bias or barrier.

    Amazing you can do that. I'd say the vast majority of humans would admit they can't.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    The great gift of reading Le Guin is realizing her capacity for capturing the sense of the alien perspective, such that we can help recognize how circumstance is what makes a perspective alien to us. Her lens of imagined cultural anthropology lets us consider how much our views and selves are intimately tied to personal history. So, not so much stories to escape into as devices that enable us to perceive ourselves in new ways.

    The stories that floored me the hardest were "The Word for World is Forest" and "The Left Hand of Darkness".
  • RooK wrote: »
    The great gift of reading Le Guin is realizing her capacity for capturing the sense of the alien perspective, such that we can help recognize how circumstance is what makes a perspective alien to us. Her lens of imagined cultural anthropology lets us consider how much our views and selves are intimately tied to personal history. So, not so much stories to escape into as devices that enable us to perceive ourselves in new ways.

    The stories that floored me the hardest were "The Word for World is Forest" and "The Left Hand of Darkness".
    thank you - I'll listen on further and see how I find what I am listening to.

  • I haven't read the thread, but I'm looking for an unobtrusive place to post my gloss on like buttons. I have a situation on the Unacceptable Storylines thread in Purg where @Colin Smith did a service for me, in looking up an old song that I didn't want to look up. If there was a like button, I would have liked the post, indicating that I had seen what he'd done.

    On this occasion I determined that I didn't want to interrupt the flow of the thread, which had moved on, just to say thanks. I appreciate that in other moods, I would have barged ahead and done that anyway.

    So what I'm thinking is a button that doesn't say "like" but simply "I have read and understood your post and feel moved to click this button". Obviously it could have a snappier name.

    [running away in a zig-zag pattern]
  • dude. Say "thanks." Everybody likes to be thanked. It's not a flow interruption. And it it were, it would be a GOOD flow interruption.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    What Lamb Chopped said. It's a discussion board. Use your words!
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