Gamma "Fucking clever than yow" Gamaliel - over here...

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Comments

  • RooK wrote: »

    Deny it, lie to yourselves. It's amusing.

    Just repeating something doesn't make it true.

    That's the way you use the word, almost everyone else couldn't give a shit about your linguistic dogmatism.
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    As my dear Mater used to say, "The question is not 'Can I,' but 'May I.' The answer is that you may not." She was right, in that particular context.

    Precisely - in the specific context of someone making a point about a specific useage of words.

    In my family, it was my grandfather who was the pedant. On one notorious occasion he wrote to the national weather forecaster to complain about them talking on the TV* about a "bit of rain". He told them it was a liquid and so could not in any sense be a bit.

    I don't think he got a reply.

    The point being that his attempt to try to regulate how other people used words had zero weight outside of his own orbit.

    * Also television not TV or tele.
  • I liked the earlier nod to the word "subjective." In language, the only thing that's objective is usage statistics. In other words, descriptive grammar.
  • I rarely hear "may" now, I suspect it is disappearing in local dialects and registers. It's odd to see people talking about grammatical correctness, without referring to dialect and register, no such thing. I suppose Standard English is losing its prestige, well, hot news, that's been happening since the 50s, maybe.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I have been amusing myself imagining God reacting differently to prayers that use 'may' and prayers that use 'can' - sending the 'can-ers' to the back of the queue, or to stand in the corner. It would make a fun cartoon. The Lord's Prayer uses neither - just a demand, 'Give us this day our daily bread.' Not even a 'please'. I'm reminded of Karen Armstrong's book, The Spiral Staircase, where she is exploring different religions, and travelling to different countries. I think it may have been Israel where she was told by the local guides to quit the English politeness words and just speak plainly, as that's how they do it there, and the politeness words were just getting in the way. She was taken aback, but found it oddly liberating.
  • I just mentioned it to my wife, who is well posh, and she thought that she hadn't heard "may" since the 60s, which is what I thought. Going, going, gone.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    'May' is still used, but in different ways. For instance, posh people say 'May I?' when they are about to grab something or do something - they are not actually asking permission, and no one gives it. They just say it as if to distract from the fact that they are barging in. Kind of like when people say 'No offence, but...'

    I also hear people say 'May I suggest...' when they are going to suggest it regardless - sometimes in a snide way. It's often used to be passive aggressive, a kind of faux polite, maybe. Which may (see, I use 'may', in another kind of way) be why people avoid using it seriously.
  • magnilomagnilo Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    magnilo wrote: »
    I’ll just leave this here.

    @Gamma Gamaliel

    Using so many words to say so little of substance with such a consistent lack of civility must require a great deal of effort.

    Goodnight.

    Eh?

    There's a flounce for you, bach.

    I don't think I put that much effort into my responses to your posts in Kerygmania but then you also don't appear to have put that much effort into understanding the point I was actually making.

    The only point that I could discern didn’t add anything positive to the conversation about Pharoah: it was just a long-winded and sugar-coated put-down. I didn’t like it.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    @fineline: "I do hope that you don't mind me interrupting - but might I perhaps be so bold as to offer a tiny suggestion which, dare I say, could possibly make a small contribution to this debate? Of course, you must feel free to ignore it: I am well aware that far more able minds than mine have already given us their valuable and learned opinions". [Devil]
  • magnilo wrote: »
    magnilo wrote: »
    I’ll just leave this here.

    @Gamma Gamaliel

    Using so many words to say so little of substance with such a consistent lack of civility must require a great deal of effort.

    Goodnight.

    Eh?

    There's a flounce for you, bach.

    I don't think I put that much effort into my responses to your posts in Kerygmania but then you also don't appear to have put that much effort into understanding the point I was actually making.

    The only point that I could discern didn’t add anything positive to the conversation about Pharoah: it was just a long-winded and sugar-coated put-down. I didn’t like it.

    Fair enough, but there was a point about context which you appeared to overlook. IMHO of course.

    But anyway, the discussion appears to have moved on. I'll be interested to see how it unfolds, both from your side and others.
  • magnilo wrote: »
    magnilo wrote: »
    I’ll just leave this here.

    @Gamma Gamaliel

    Using so many words to say so little of substance with such a consistent lack of civility must require a great deal of effort.

    Goodnight.

    Eh?

    There's a flounce for you, bach.

    I don't think I put that much effort into my responses to your posts in Kerygmania but then you also don't appear to have put that much effort into understanding the point I was actually making.

    The only point that I could discern didn’t add anything positive to the conversation about Pharoah: it was just a long-winded and sugar-coated put-down. I didn’t like it.

    Fair enough, but there was a point about context which you appeared to overlook. IMHO of course.
    I don’t think I did overlook your point. You lampooned my engagement with the OP as anachronistic and then lauded yourself for having moved on to ‘closer’ - by which you clearly mean better and more intelligent - readings of the texts in question. Well done you.
    But anyway, the discussion appears to have moved on. I'll be interested to see how it unfolds, both from your side and others.
    Good. Me too.

  • I think you misunderstood my point about anachronisms but we can let that slide.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    RooK wrote: »

    Deny it, lie to yourselves. It's amusing.

    Just repeating something doesn't make it true.

    That's the way you use the word, almost everyone else couldn't give a shit about your linguistic dogmatism.

    Thanks for attempting to oblige, yon hypocritical vomit-licker. However, your inability to even try to refute me smears you with self-applied taunting. Indeed, your dedication to making yourself be a goatse-class ass in every possible post means that I hardly even have to point it out, which is extremely inconsiderate.

    Maybe we should create a stupider, more belligerent version of Hell where participants are required to be overtly shitty all the time. I like the name "Golgotha". We could use it as a sort of lowest-common-denominator board for you, romanlion, deano -er thatcherite, and the like to roll around in. You're welcome.
  • Okay, I'm going to make a ruling here.

    Now that magnilo and GG have an active beef, we're going to drop the 'may' vs 'can' debate, because it's deader than a dead horse, and leave the field clear for them.

    If you really feel the need (and I hope you don't) open a new thread.

    DT
    HH
  • I’ve had my say. It didn’t really yield the desired result. End of story.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    ...@Rosseweisse. Like the suddenly very cuddly and fluffy Rook, I can be a fan of yours. You rock.

    However, in this instance I feel you've been unnecessarily harsh, pedantic and indeed snobbishly patronising towards KarlLB and that's brought out the worst in me. Hence my Pond War sniping and intemperate language. ...
    No, as noted in the "Table Manners" thread, Karl has been beating up on me for a long time. I just got tired of his assumptions and constant hostility, and hit back.

    Thank you for the kind words!


  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Bullshit. We had a frank exchange of views on a Hell thread (whodathunkit) in which you gave as good as you got and you've been unable to let it lie ever since, leading to your snide comment about my daughter, poor unfortunate soul that she is with such a father. But terrible bully I am I didn't bring it here; I registered my offence and moved on. You came down here and raised it again.

    Like I indicated in the table manners thread, buy yourself a mirror.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    I think you meant to say "As I indicated..." ;-)
  • magnilo wrote: »
    I’ve had my say. It didn’t really yield the desired result. End of story.

    Well you got an apology of sorts and an undertaking that I'd devote interested attention to your posts in future?

    What more did you want? Blood? My car keys? My daughter's hand in marriage?
  • I'll take door #2, thanks. How much mileage?

    [I'm sure your daughter is lovely but I don't swing that way]
  • magnilo wrote: »
    I’ve had my say. It didn’t really yield the desired result. End of story.

    Well you got an apology of sorts and an undertaking that I'd devote interested attention to your posts in future?

    What more did you want? Blood? My car keys? My daughter's hand in marriage?

    Well, that’s a very generous - if rather weird offer - but after careful consideration I think I’ll settle for your apology “of sorts”, thanks.
  • You're welcome.

    Climacus, I don't have any sons and the offer wasn't intended for you. No, you can't have my car keys either.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited November 2018
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I do not live in the north of England. I prefer proper grammar as it is generally understood, and for good manners. "Can I have" is generally considered rude...

    ...and before Karl or another bully starts up again, I understand that your mileage may well vary.

    Spot on. I like "Might I....". If that makes me old, happy to be ga-ga. And punters love it.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    And here we go again.
    Happy now? ;)

    No, because
    Then, some kids started reading LOTR and The Simarillion which I always saw as the novelistic equivalent of 1970s pomp-rock and the concept album. (...)

    So for better or worse, whatever its merits or demerits I tend to relegate LOTR to adolescent 5th and 6th form territory. (...) That's one reason to avoid the elves.

    I couldn't care less whether you think LOTR is good or bad. Tastes differ. No problem. I don't consider myself a LOTR geek, though I love the book.

    No, what's wrong here, again, is you blundering into a thread and taking a massive dump on it, telling everyone there what a load of crap it all is, and finishing with "I'll get me coat", which implies you are not interested in defending your views, just in one-shot snide posting.

    @mousethief was absolutely spot on in his reply.

    I implored you to stop before you made yourself any more insufferable, and what do you do? You double down. The post quoted above isn't conciliatory for all the parts I've quoted above. Especially the swipe at prog rock, your views on which are well-known and your comments on which have been extensively dealt with before on this very thread. That's not conciliation, it's inflammation and you know it. In the face of people trying to actually generate some reasoned debate out of your post, you can't do anything better than yank their chains.

    For goodness sake stop being so childish.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    He's really an arse on that thread.
  • GG, if you are drunk, please don't post.

    I'm happy to discuss with you Crime and Punishment but there is absolutely no point in you continuing to tell everyone that you think LOTR is juvenile.

    It's a point of view, but you've made it and there is nothing to be gained in saying it again.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    I regret disagreeing with @mr cheesy earlier in this thread. It seems he may have been right.
  • I don't have the excuse of being drunk. So I can't use that one.

    I dunno. There's something about LOTR and Prog that brings out the worst in me. I can't blame that though. I am responsible for my actions.
  • I don't have the excuse of being drunk. So I can't use that one.

    I dunno. There's something about LOTR and Prog that brings out the worst in me. I can't blame that though. I am responsible for my actions.

    Look, I'm offering you a way out; stop pissing people off in the LOTR thread and start posting about Dostoyevsky instead.

  • OK I don't have to try to be nice here.

    GG you have the manners of an orangutan and the discerning taste of the football hooligan who, when I confronted him shagging his girlfriend against my garden wall in Spain, promptly emptied his innards all over her shoes.

    And I am probably insulting the orangutan.

    You are the worst type of attention whore and don't think I didn't recognize that cheap shot about Trump in the LOTR thread. Fortunately, I am not American and could not care less what you think I resemble.

    You have zero respect or appreciation for anything and anyone, and that says everything that needs to be said about your self esteem and your talent envy.

    It seems to me that since this is a Christian website people have been cutting you big slack because of your recent bereavement.

    Well I am not.

    I have news for you my friend. In the past eighteen months I lost my daughter, my father and my mother, and somehow I manage not to be an asshole to everyone on the Ship.

    Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you talentless piece of shit.

    AFF


  • balaambalaam Shipmate
    Two threads where we are discussing Gamma Gamaliel, this and one the LOTR one which has been hijacked from the subject to talking about the attention seeker.

    GG get back under your bridge.
  • OK I don't have to try to be nice here.

    GG you have the manners of an orangutan and the discerning taste of the football hooligan who, when I confronted him shagging his girlfriend against my garden wall in Spain, promptly emptied his innards all over her shoes.

    And I am probably insulting the orangutan.

    You are the worst type of attention whore and don't think I didn't recognize that cheap shot about Trump in the LOTR thread. Fortunately, I am not American and could not care less what you think I resemble.

    You have zero respect or appreciation for anything and anyone, and that says everything that needs to be said about your self esteem and your talent envy.

    It seems to me that since this is a Christian website people have been cutting you big slack because of your recent bereavement.

    Well I am not.

    I have news for you my friend. In the past eighteen months I lost my daughter, my father and my mother, and somehow I manage not to be an asshole to everyone on the Ship.

    Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you talentless piece of shit.

    AFF


    I'm sorry for you loss.
  • OK I don't have to try to be nice here.

    GG you have the manners of an orangutan and the discerning taste of the football hooligan who, when I confronted him shagging his girlfriend against my garden wall in Spain, promptly emptied his innards all over her shoes.

    And I am probably insulting the orangutan.

    You are the worst type of attention whore and don't think I didn't recognize that cheap shot about Trump in the LOTR thread. Fortunately, I am not American and could not care less what you think I resemble.

    You have zero respect or appreciation for anything and anyone, and that says everything that needs to be said about your self esteem and your talent envy.

    It seems to me that since this is a Christian website people have been cutting you big slack because of your recent bereavement.

    Well I am not.

    I have news for you my friend. In the past eighteen months I lost my daughter, my father and my mother, and somehow I manage not to be an asshole to everyone on the Ship.

    Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you talentless piece of shit.

    AFF


    I'm sorry for you loss.

    Fuck off.

    You are not.

    My God, I was so nice to you. I really felt your pain there, like it was my own, because it was. So fresh and hot and unbearable. Because it was and still is.

    You really got under my skin this time because I developed this appreciation for his work because my darling mother gave me those books. If it were not for her I would be functionally illiterate like my Dad.

    And I did the same for my daughter. and we read them all together, the three of us, and we loved them so much.

    You are SUCH a fuckwad, you filippant trite piece of crap.

    I'm sorry I ever had anything kind to think of you.

    You are NOT sorry.

    Fuck right off and do not ever speak to me again.







  • Crikey. Listen, I am sorry for your loss. As you know, I've recently lost my wife, so I'd have to be a monumentally heartless git if I didn't feel for you. I can't imagine what it must be like to lose a child.

    As far as I am aware you are Canadian so my Trump allusion wasn't aimed at you in the mistaken belief you were American, but I can see why you took it that way. But heck, I can see that I've upset you and I wouldn't have dreamt of doing so had I known the backstory and your recent bereavements.

    FWIW I apologise for causing such distress. I will leave you be but sincerely hope that other Shippies and folk around you can help in some way.

    There's nothing I can say but I will say that.

  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    You don't know how to say nothing. This thread is full of the evidence. One recorded self-imposed silence lasted all of 32 minutes. Now you're trying to backpedal on the LOTR thread. Why can't you listen and step back and think before pressing the "post comment" button. Engage brain BEFORE posting is in the rules.
  • I had no idea AFF had recently lost close relatives. Had I known I would not have posted as I did.
  • One of the reasons why I am back on the Ship is because I need to feel connected. My motivations for remaining attached to this plane are slim, I'm using all my options.

    The way people feel connected is through sharing appreciation for one another and for the things that give us enjoyment.

    We were have a lovely moment of connection where we were sharing appreciation, and in comes GG in his Disco Sucks tee shirt and shits all over the parade.

    STOP DOING THAT.

    You make Baby Jesus cry when you do it. You made me cry.

    You couldn't know the backstory until I gave it to you, but GG, everyone is struggling with something.

    Not shitting on someone's appreciation is a very good way to show respect for their moment and their connection, because you never know where their greatest pain lies.

    This is all I have to say.












  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    @Gamma Gamaliel We've been here before. You display no respect, awareness, or empathy for other posters at all. You assume that if they don't post walls of text about their problems, they don't have any. I'm not minimising your sufferings. I can't begin to imagine them. But I don't come here and assume that just because people don't post about the shit they go through, they're not going through any. Your treat this place far too much as a gallery to play for laughs and not as if there are real people behind the avatars. You frequently confess openly that you're just yanking their chains. You don't stop to think about who might be on the other end of that chain you're yanking. It's puerile and it's deeply frustrating because you seem like you could be a nice bloke. Try listening for once.

    [x-post]
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    If a group of people shares their apprecation of something they like, and you happen not to like it, don't barge in and say it's crap. This is not rocket science.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I may be totally on the wrong track, but I saw the post that Euthychus quoted as Gamma simply explaining the reason he was so prejuduced against LOTR was because he associated it with the teenagers who raved over it when he was a teen, and that he therefore hadn't really given the book a chance. Which I thought was fair enough reasoning - I've had books I avoided because they were popular with certain crowds at school, amd then was surprised when I later read them to discover they were good. I myself have never got into Tolkien - also found him kind of tedious, but have never really given him a chance, but also don't particularly want to, as there are many other authors I feel more inspired to read - but I do like Dostoevsky.

    I also enjoy Henry James, and he is an author that lots of people say is turgid and tedious - except it never seems to cause a drama, because the people who say that seem far more numerous than the few of us who like him. But I suppose it would be annoying if we had a thread for Henry James fans to talk about him and someone kept posting how they didn't like him.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    It's not his posting about how he doesn't like LOTR. It's him setting himself up as the ultimate arbiter of taste whatever the subject, rubbing salt in the wound by alluding to prog rock for which he did exactly the same thing, hence this thread, and finishing up with "happy now ;)" which is clear provocation and "I'll get me coat" which means "this is a hit-and-run post".

    And then continuing to throw rocks at the participants with every subsequent post. There's not a single one of his contributions on that thread until he was finally put off balance by AFF that doesn't have some sort of jibe, dig, or taunt, when he's already been told how annoying it is. It's chronic. If one wanted to take issue with LOTR there are plenty of reasonable ways to do so and more than one poster has on that thread has done so: but not him.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    I'm not a particular fan of Dostoevsky, and I have trouble listening to most rock and pop of any variety. But I don't see the point of barging into threads where people are discussing their appreciation of something and repeatedly saying how much I dislike it.

    (I do enjoy Henry James, as it happens, although I agree that he has his turgid moments.)

  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    @fineline imagine I turned up in Ecclesiantics on a regular basis and said things like "oh that stupid tat, how girly, I'm surprised you haven't all grown out of dressing up" or "liturgy is soooo boring, I haven't done that since school assembly" or "bunch of papists; but I did go to St Peter's Square once. Happy now? ;)". Because that is what this is like.

    [another x-post]
  • I've made lots of mistakes aboard Ship. This is the biggest.
  • I've made lots of mistakes aboard Ship. This is the biggest.

    Nevertheless he persists.
  • If Gamma is so beyond redemption, why is there six pages of people trying to redeem him?



  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    If Gamma is so beyond redemption, why is there six pages of people trying to redeem him?

    Because people on the ship are ridiculously naive romantics who think they can fix anyone. Well nearly anyone. I'm not sure romanlion, to take one example, had nearly as many hell calls as I did. Then again maybe he deserved them less.
  • that is full on true mousethief. I love being a ridiculously naive romantic.
  • I slept poorly and fitfully and had stressful dreams where I both let people down badly or else was going to turn up for interviews and such unprepared.

    I can't go back and delete my interventions where I've caused offence. What I can do is impose a Self Denying Ordinance and desist from pursuing regular tropes that are likely to upset people. I must be wise hereafter and seek for grace.

    Easier said than done but do it I must. They say it takes 6 weeks to make or break a habit. I must develop that discipline. I can't undo the upset I've caused but with some application and discipline I can avoid repeating this most egregious of errors.

    I resolve never to poke around on a thread involving LoTR, Prog Rock or fantasy computer games and to desist from other well-worn, rutted tropes which are likely to cause offence.

    I'm gutted that I upset AFF particularly given what she's going through. Nothing I can say or do can make amends for that and I'm terribly sorry.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Well, back in the day on the old Ship we got catfished by what's-her-name Buddha. She wrung quite a few tears out of many with her amazing, expanding sob story. At least GG is real and although he sometimes annoys me I still kinda like him.
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