Arguing on the Ship - no, really?

135

Comments

  • fineline wrote: »
    Hmm...I think the purpose of Ship of Fools is not to edify as such. Putting yourself forward as an edifier seems a bit of a presumptuous stance to take - it presumes you are in a position to improve our morals. Here we discuss and debate and enourage and chat, depending on the board, but I don't think we have an edification board!
    I believe that any who devoutly study the bible in Godly fashion can & will, if allowed, edify those whom they encounter. To me it's not a matter better than but of God at work
  • tclunetclune Shipmate
    sionisais wrote: »
    I haven't seen it here but wasn't the sub-heading for The Ship of Fools "The Website of Religious Unrest"? How do you do that without arguments?
    I wonder if BJ might have been troubled more by the nature of the argumentation than the fact of it. My sense is that some years back, the Ship was much more careful to attack an argument than to attack the person making it. Now, it is bog standard Ship-ese to claim that someone saying or doing something disapproved of by the poster has to be a racist/sexist/homophobe/what-have-you. My sense is that there has been a definite coarsening of the discourse on this board. It was never conflict-free, but it was noticeably more gentile in days past. Or so ISTM.
  • Mr ClingfordMr Clingford Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    tclune wrote: »
    ...My sense is that there has been a definite coarsening of the discourse on this board. It was never conflict-free, but it was noticeably more gentile in days past. Or so ISTM.
    Make of that what you will...
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I dunno. I still think someone’s programming a talkbot with the back catalogue of Banner of Truth.
  • tclunetclune Shipmate
    tclune wrote: »
    ...My sense is that there has been a definite coarsening of the discourse on this board. It was never conflict-free, but it was noticeably more gentile in days past. Or so ISTM.
    Make of that what you will...

    Oops!
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    I dunno. I still think someone’s programming a talkbot with the back catalogue of Banner of Truth.

    Alexa - edify us now!

  • Iron sharpens iron. If you've ever been anywhere near a forge, it's very hot and the sparks are flying.

    And of course, the proper Rabbinic tradition is to answer every question with another question. Anything else is milquetoast.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    I believe that any who devoutly study the bible in Godly fashion can & will, if allowed, edify those whom they encounter. To me it's not a matter better than but of God at work

    And this is LESS arrogant? You have just claimed God is working through you and not through us.
  • Brother JudeBrother Jude Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    mousethief wrote: »
    I believe that any who devoutly study the bible in Godly fashion can & will, if allowed, edify those whom they encounter. To me it's not a matter better than but of God at work

    And this is LESS arrogant? You have just claimed God is working through you and not through us.

    Did I not say that God works through any who devoutly study His word? And if I did does this then mean that you are declaring yourself to not devoutly study, in a Godly way, and therefore are excluded from such statement?
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Messianic Jew or real Jew? Conservative, Reform, or Orthodox?

    Conservative.

    I converted after leaving Christianity, then my, now ex wife, wife said that she couldn't be Jewish so it fell by the wayside for the sake of the marriage & children

    So.. you left temporarily and came back. Why did you leave in the first place and if your marriage dissolved what's now stopping you from going back?

    I'm sorry to hear about your marriage.
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    @RooK, does the choir of angels sing in four-part harmony, or in eight-part? And are there descants?

    Everyone knows polyphony and harmony are of infernal origin.

    Angels sing in monophony.

    AFF
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Messianic Jew or real Jew? Conservative, Reform, or Orthodox?

    Conservative.

    I converted after leaving Christianity, then my, now ex wife, wife said that she couldn't be Jewish so it fell by the wayside for the sake of the marriage & children

    So.. you left temporarily and came back. Why did you leave in the first place and if your marriage dissolved what's now stopping you from going back?

    I'm sorry to hear about your marriage.

    I felt called to return to Christ & as such am endeavoring to seek out my own salvation. Over the course of my life I have practiced Christianity, protestant if it matters, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, & Asatru. I ran from Jesus for a long time but here I find myself again
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Messianic Jew or real Jew? Conservative, Reform, or Orthodox?

    Conservative.

    I converted after leaving Christianity, then my, now ex wife, wife said that she couldn't be Jewish so it fell by the wayside for the sake of the marriage & children

    So.. you left temporarily and came back. Why did you leave in the first place and if your marriage dissolved what's now stopping you from going back?

    I'm sorry to hear about your marriage.

    I felt called to return to Christ & as such am endeavoring to seek out my own salvation. Over the course of my life I have practiced Christianity, protestant if it matters, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, & Asatru. I ran from Jesus for a long time but here I find myself again

    Funny how you can run but not hide.

    I didn't find Him, He found me.

    AFF
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    fineline wrote: »
    Hmm...I think the purpose of Ship of Fools is not to edify as such. Putting yourself forward as an edifier seems a bit of a presumptuous stance to take - it presumes you are in a position to improve our morals. Here we discuss and debate and enourage and chat, depending on the board, but I don't think we have an edification board!
    I believe that any who devoutly study the bible in Godly fashion can & will, if allowed, edify those whom they encounter. To me it's not a matter better than but of God at work

    I agree that we can and do - iron sharpens iron, as Doc Tor says - though that is quite different from it being what we seek to do. It's something God does through us, as we seek to humbly love him and love each other, and be real with each other. In my experience, those who set out with edification of others as their goal tend to be a stumbling block, because it is an inherently arrogant stance to take. The focus of Christ's teaching is to love and serve, and certainly the Christians who have had most influence in edifying me have been those who are humble, loving and honest, with no explicit intentions of edifying me, but more walking alongside me. Those with the intention of edifying are often rushing ahead of God with their own agenda.

  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Messianic Jew or real Jew? Conservative, Reform, or Orthodox?

    Conservative.

    I converted after leaving Christianity, then my, now ex wife, wife said that she couldn't be Jewish so it fell by the wayside for the sake of the marriage & children

    So.. you left temporarily and came back. Why did you leave in the first place and if your marriage dissolved what's now stopping you from going back?

    I'm sorry to hear about your marriage.

    I felt called to return to Christ & as such am endeavoring to seek out my own salvation. Over the course of my life I have practiced Christianity, protestant if it matters, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, & Asatru. I ran from Jesus for a long time but here I find myself again

    Ok. So imagine you met yourself, speaking as you have here, when you were a druid.

    Do you think you'd have found the claims you make a) stimulating b) uplifting c) unintelligible or d) annoying.

    Because I can tell you I've been one thing my entire life and I find your bogus characterisation of my faith a right royal pain in the arse.
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Messianic Jew or real Jew? Conservative, Reform, or Orthodox?

    Conservative.

    I converted after leaving Christianity, then my, now ex wife, wife said that she couldn't be Jewish so it fell by the wayside for the sake of the marriage & children

    So.. you left temporarily and came back. Why did you leave in the first place and if your marriage dissolved what's now stopping you from going back?

    I'm sorry to hear about your marriage.

    I felt called to return to Christ & as such am endeavoring to seek out my own salvation. Over the course of my life I have practiced Christianity, protestant if it matters, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, & Asatru. I ran from Jesus for a long time but here I find myself again

    Funny how you can run but not hide.

    I didn't find Him, He found me.

    AFF

    Well said
  • Over the course of my life I have practiced Christianity, protestant if it matters, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, & Asatru. I ran from Jesus for a long time but here I find myself again

    One ex-shipmate was a boneheaded fundamentalist Orthodoxen, until he discovered atheism, and became a boneheaded fundamentalist Atheist.

    You can run from Jesus. You can't run from yourself.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    All this wooly pretension at god-bothering is making me nauseous.

    If the sum of one's contribution is an appeal to authority, they should just fuck the fuck off.
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    My opinion is that man's understandings of sin only matters insofar s their acknowledgment f those sins &, hopefully, subsequent repentance. In my mind only God's understanding of sin ultimately matters

    And how would you/we know what that is?

    Would it not be by reading His Word & by meditating upon it?

    If that worked there would not be 100,000 different churches with different theologies.

    I would suggest that there is a vast gulf between genuine seeking of God and His Way and of human arrogance

    I would suggest you're not the only person who knows this, and that it doesn't answer my point.

    How do you know you are genuinely seeking God and those other people aren't? Do you fail to realize they feel may as sure that they are true skewers and you are the arrogant one? And that none of us is in a place outside the conflict that we might objectively determine which of us is right?

    Is it not true that one can tell another by their fruits? If the fruits are bland and lacking seeds what then shall we conclude?

    What if they are bitter and inedible? What if they look tasty but end up being mush inside?

    As to the former is not God's truth sometimes bitter? What do you say the latter is?

    Son, you don't know God's truth from a lump of lard.
  • RooK wrote: »
    All this wooly pretension at god-bothering is making me nauseous.

    If the sum of one's contribution is an appeal to authority, they should just fuck the fuck off.

    Don't worry, it sounds like he won't be staying long before hitching a ride to the next stop on his spiritual tube map.
  • Brother JudeBrother Jude Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Messianic Jew or real Jew? Conservative, Reform, or Orthodox?

    Conservative.

    I converted after leaving Christianity, then my, now ex wife, wife said that she couldn't be Jewish so it fell by the wayside for the sake of the marriage & children

    So.. you left temporarily and came back. Why did you leave in the first place and if your marriage dissolved what's now stopping you from going back?

    I'm sorry to hear about your marriage.

    I felt called to return to Christ & as such am endeavoring to seek out my own salvation. Over the course of my life I have practiced Christianity, protestant if it matters, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, & Asatru. I ran from Jesus for a long time but here I find myself again

    Ok. So imagine you met yourself, speaking as you have here, when you were a druid.

    Do you think you'd have found the claims you make a) stimulating b) uplifting c) unintelligible or d) annoying.

    Because I can tell you I've been one thing my entire life and I find your bogus characterisation of my faith a right royal pain in the arse.

    What faith would this be? Christianity? More specifically Catholicism or Protestantism? Or is it Judaism? Surely it must be one of these. Is it an inaccurate characterization? What about this characterization is offense to you? Is this too many questions?
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    fineline wrote: »
    Hmm...I think the purpose of Ship of Fools is not to edify as such. Putting yourself forward as an edifier seems a bit of a presumptuous stance to take - it presumes you are in a position to improve our morals. Here we discuss and debate and enourage and chat, depending on the board, but I don't think we have an edification board!
    I believe that any who devoutly study the bible in Godly fashion can & will, if allowed, edify those whom they encounter. To me it's not a matter better than but of God at work

    There are a fair number of folks here who I'd say "devoutly study the bible in Godly fashion" besides praying sincerely and often. Some in that number have been speaking to you here. Even ones with rough tongues. Try to be edified.
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Messianic Jew or real Jew? Conservative, Reform, or Orthodox?

    Conservative.

    I converted after leaving Christianity, then my, now ex wife, wife said that she couldn't be Jewish so it fell by the wayside for the sake of the marriage & children

    So.. you left temporarily and came back. Why did you leave in the first place and if your marriage dissolved what's now stopping you from going back?

    I'm sorry to hear about your marriage.

    I felt called to return to Christ & as such am endeavoring to seek out my own salvation. Over the course of my life I have practiced Christianity, protestant if it matters, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, & Asatru. I ran from Jesus for a long time but here I find myself again

    Ok. So imagine you met yourself, speaking as you have here, when you were a druid.

    Do you think you'd have found the claims you make a) stimulating b) uplifting c) unintelligible or d) annoying.

    Because I can tell you I've been one thing my entire life and I find your bogus characterisation of my faith a right royal pain in the arse.

    What faith would this be? Christianity? More specifically Catholicism or Protestantism? Or is it Judaism? Surely it must be one of these. Is it an inaccurate characterization? What about this characterization is offense to you? Is this too many questions?

    Why should I tell you anything?
  • Jesus always got to know people and made it clear they were loved / accepted before doing anything else. There's a lot to be said for the "demonstrating Christianity by not being a complete arse school of evangelism".
  • Lyda wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    Hmm...I think the purpose of Ship of Fools is not to edify as such. Putting yourself forward as an edifier seems a bit of a presumptuous stance to take - it presumes you are in a position to improve our morals. Here we discuss and debate and enourage and chat, depending on the board, but I don't think we have an edification board!
    I believe that any who devoutly study the bible in Godly fashion can & will, if allowed, edify those whom they encounter. To me it's not a matter better than but of God at work

    There are a fair number of folks here who I'd say "devoutly study the bible in Godly fashion" besides praying sincerely and often. Some in that number have been speaking to you here. Even ones with rough tongues. Try to be edified.

    Have I not already been?
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    I don't know. Have you?
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I believe that any who devoutly study the bible in Godly fashion can & will, if allowed, edify those whom they encounter. To me it's not a matter better than but of God at work

    And this is LESS arrogant? You have just claimed God is working through you and not through us.

    Did I not say that God works through any who devoutly study His word? And if I did does this then mean that you are declaring yourself to not devoutly study, in a Godly way, and therefore are excluded from such statement?

    I don't exactly know why, but this made me laugh out loud. A lot.
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Messianic Jew or real Jew? Conservative, Reform, or Orthodox?

    Conservative.

    I converted after leaving Christianity, then my, now ex wife, wife said that she couldn't be Jewish so it fell by the wayside for the sake of the marriage & children

    So.. you left temporarily and came back. Why did you leave in the first place and if your marriage dissolved what's now stopping you from going back?

    I'm sorry to hear about your marriage.

    I felt called to return to Christ & as such am endeavoring to seek out my own salvation. Over the course of my life I have practiced Christianity, protestant if it matters, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, & Asatru. I ran from Jesus for a long time but here I find myself again

    Ok. So imagine you met yourself, speaking as you have here, when you were a druid.

    Do you think you'd have found the claims you make a) stimulating b) uplifting c) unintelligible or d) annoying.

    Because I can tell you I've been one thing my entire life and I find your bogus characterisation of my faith a right royal pain in the arse.

    What faith would this be? Christianity? More specifically Catholicism or Protestantism? Or is it Judaism? Surely it must be one of these. Is it an inaccurate characterization? What about this characterization is offense to you? Is this too many questions?

    Why should I tell you anything?
    Why shouldn't you? Is it not you making claims as to the fault you have found in my words? Why bring such accusations as that of "bogus characterization", yet not then shed light as to the nature of such assertion? If it be true do you think I will not listen & heed such brotherly admonition?
  • Tubbs wrote: »
    Jesus always got to know people and made it clear they were loved / accepted before doing anything else. There's a lot to be said for the "demonstrating Christianity by not being a complete arse school of evangelism".

    Have I proclaimed o be an evangelist, let alone a complete butt of an evangelist? Is such determination based upon the sharing of my convictions and the fact that I seek to offer satisfactory basis for those convictions? Would it be better that I not back up such statements? Or better that I simply not speak at all?
  • Lyda wrote: »
    I don't know. Have you?

    I would say yes. As example you added what I forgot to in your statement. That being the need for continuous prayer. Would I lie & say that I need no such reminder? My prayers are often but certainly not "without ceasing"
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2019
    Is there another Thread on the Ship currently so replete, nay, overflowing, with such Sanctimonious Tosh*?

    Are there indeed Times when Silence is Golden, & does this appear to be such a Time?

    May I pass Peanuts to anyone?
    :wink:

    (*Who, unlike the Reverend Oleaginous Gloop**, is NOT a character from one of the late Mr. Trollope's Novels. Though perhaps he should be the Perpetual Curate of the parish of St Admonition-in-the-Mud?)

    (**Neither is he, actually. Did you know that I made him up?).
  • Is there another Thread on the Ship currently so replete, nay, overflowing, with such Sanctimonious Tosh*?

    Are there indeed Times when Silence is Golden, & does this appear to be such a Time?

    May I pass Peanuts to anyone?
    :wink:

    (*Who, unlike the Reverend Oleaginous Gloop**, is NOT a character from one of the late Mr. Trollope's Novels. Though perhaps he should be the Perpetual Curate of the parish of St Admonition-in-the-Mud?)

    (**Neither is he, actually. Did you know that I made him up?).

    So by your standard it would be better if I just not speak? Am I then to be the Pharisee announcing my greatness that all may hear & bear witness?
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    I find that in BJ's way of posting, he's trying to rile people up rather deliberately.
  • LeRoc wrote: »
    I find that in BJ's way of posting, he's trying to rile people up rather deliberately.

    Snigger.

    Maybe he's a Viz-reading windup merchant.
  • Is there another Thread on the Ship currently so replete, nay, overflowing, with such Sanctimonious Tosh*?

    Are there indeed Times when Silence is Golden, & does this appear to be such a Time?

    May I pass Peanuts to anyone?
    :wink:

    (*Who, unlike the Reverend Oleaginous Gloop**, is NOT a character from one of the late Mr. Trollope's Novels. Though perhaps he should be the Perpetual Curate of the parish of St Admonition-in-the-Mud?)

    (**Neither is he, actually. Did you know that I made him up?).

    So by your standard it would be better if I just not speak? Am I then to be the Pharisee announcing my greatness that all may hear & bear witness?

    Well, yes. If the Cap fits, wear It.

  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    LeRoc wrote: »
    I find that in BJ's way of posting, he's trying to rile people up rather deliberately.

    Why not? Many of us are speaking snottily to him. He uses the weapons he has at hand.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Seriously, Brother Jude, the point of Purgatory is debate. It's not about leaving things there in the hopes that they'll edify people, and refusing to argue, because you think arguing is unbiblical. That is not an equal form of discussion. We present our views, listen to other views, decide if we agree or disagree, or if we are not sure, and we talk about what we disagree on. Not as a hostile thing, but to explore ideas. None of us can fully understand God, and other people's ideas can make you think and reconsider your own ideas. But it's not about entering a discussion, putting your thoughts out there to edify people, and then refusing to engage them in discussion if they argue.
  • Brother Jude:

    I think one snag in reading your posts is that (sorry) they sound like Paul's letters in the Revised Standard Version of the Bible. And IMHO that doesn't really fit well in modern conversation.

    Maybe that's your normal style of speaking and posting. But it comes across as making pronouncements in an epistle to people in need of correction.

    Might it be possible for you to write in a more relaxed, casual way? And just be a person in a group of other persons who are all trying to figure life out, and have some fun while doing it?

    Thx. :)
  • LeRoc wrote: »
    I find that in BJ's way of posting, he's trying to rile people up rather deliberately.

    You give me far too much credit. I am genuinely baffled as to the reasoning behind any of the charges that have thus far been leveled at me, be it in this thread or the other two I have thus far participated in. How should I respond to such baseless comments, such as referring to my posts as "Sanctimonious Tosh", or to proclaim a link to evangelical butt, or even to tell me that I am disingenuous in stating I meant no insult? Yet more, what of others telling me that my characterizations are bogus? At what point did it become acceptable to ridicule and to scoff at one's submitted opinions and when asked to justify from whence these accusatory statements come, why can no answer be given?

    I have endeavored to speak openly and honestly. To address in acceptable fashion each reponse, weigh each point of contention, and have ever been willing to admit if I may be shown wrong in my thinking, as those who have actually bothered to converse will surely attest. What then should I do? Shall I return insult for insult? Would it be better if I growl and bear my teeth? I have been that man far too long in life.

    Questioning one's deeply held convictions, the actions which they undertake, or the words which they choose to convey, should this be cause for proper riling?
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I have spoken to you in a clear and honest way, Brother Jude. Not everyone is insulting you, but insults do happen here in Hell, I think sometimes because people feel they are banging their head against a brick wall by trying to talk rationally, when there is no indication that the person has understood them, so they think a quick insult will make the point better, and create some humour. And I suspect sometimes it does, with some people.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I think possibly there may also be a culture clash, as a lot of Brits are here, and Brits tend to not take themselves too seriously, and the insults may therefore be less serious and nasty than you read them. People are trying to connect with you, and you are not connecting. You come across very serious and intense and maybe taking yourself more seriously than others are taking you (or themselves).
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    You are confused @Brother Jude. This is Hell - read the banner at the top.

    “Got a complaint, a rant or a personal argument to settle? Add it to the uproar – so long as you have an infernally thick skin to match. But first, read and become one with the Hell guidelines.”

    I called you here because what I had to say was personal. Hell isn't for discussion and debate - it’s for sorting out personal differences - and can get a little messy.

    Purgatory is for discussion/debate/argument. It isn't for pronouncements or edification. It’s for exploring subjects, agreeing and disagreeing - as @fineline said.

    @LeRoc is talking about your postings in Purgatory (I think). I certainly was.

    Pronouncing that people should pray and seek God - as if that will bring them round to your point of view - is simply annoying. As is saying “The bible also teaches us not to argue amongst ourselves so I'll leave it there.” when you have entered a place which is for arguing!

    Thus my OP.
  • As did I. I explained very clearly why what you said to Mousethief was offensive. You can respond with a reason why you think it wasn’t, but it’s not true for you to say, “when no answer can be given”, when clear answers have been given.
  • Well, maybe our dear Brother does need to take a while to read the small print. There's no harm at all in admitting that that might be the case...
    :wink:
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Brother Jude:

    I think one snag in reading your posts is that (sorry) they sound like Paul's letters in the Revised Standard Version of the Bible. And IMHO that doesn't really fit well in modern conversation.

    Maybe that's your normal style of speaking and posting. But it comes across as making pronouncements in an epistle to people in need of correction.

    Might it be possible for you to write in a more relaxed, casual way? And just be a person in a group of other persons who are all trying to figure life out, and have some fun while doing it?

    Thx. :)

    Some honest feedback. It is appreciated. Sadly I often do talk, write, and type like this. In my humble opinion it is a sure way of getting my point across. My mind naturally goes to the most poetic & descriptive wording. It is who I am.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Brother Jude:

    I think one snag in reading your posts is that (sorry) they sound like Paul's letters in the Revised Standard Version of the Bible. And IMHO that doesn't really fit well in modern conversation.

    Maybe that's your normal style of speaking and posting. But it comes across as making pronouncements in an epistle to people in need of correction.

    Might it be possible for you to write in a more relaxed, casual way? And just be a person in a group of other persons who are all trying to figure life out, and have some fun while doing it?

    Thx. :)

    Some honest feedback. It is appreciated. Sadly I often do talk, write, and type like this. In my humble opinion it is a sure way of getting my point across. My mind naturally goes to the most poetic & descriptive wording. It is who I am.

    No. Telling other people that they are disagreeing with you and therefore by extension God's WORD is not who you are - it a learned behaviour.

    One that we'd all dearly like you to unlearn.
  • fineline wrote: »
    Seriously, Brother Jude, the point of Purgatory is debate. It's not about leaving things there in the hopes that they'll edify people, and refusing to argue, because you think arguing is unbiblical. That is not an equal form of discussion. We present our views, listen to other views, decide if we agree or disagree, or if we are not sure, and we talk about what we disagree on. Not as a hostile thing, but to explore ideas. None of us can fully understand God, and other people's ideas can make you think and reconsider your own ideas. But it's not about entering a discussion, putting your thoughts out there to edify people, and then refusing to engage them in discussion if they argue.

    If you go back to the aforementioned exchange you will see that I did try and have an earnest discussion of the topic and the points I made. With all due respect to the other poster I was met with only responses of, what basically amounted to, You are wrong because you are wrong. If argument is what must be in Purgatory I will gladly oblige, that said, if the argument turns to one of ill conceived notions, where it is obvious that my point is likely not even being read, I will humbly back away and abstain.
  • Except that there's nothing poetic whatsoever in the way you post. It sounds turgid rather than lucid.

    Perhaps that's why some people find it sounds rather sanctimonious.

    At times it reads rather like Sister Monica Jones in the long-running BBC Sunday evening drama, 'Call The Midwife.' She's got Alzheimer's. She tends to put things in an overly flowery way. 'Our answer is in the affirmative ...' when a plain, 'Yes' would suffice.

    Perhaps that's how you genuinely speak and write. It doesn't sound particularly direct and natural. Quite the opposite.

    With the best will in the world you do sound as if you're lecturing everyone in a rather old-fashioned kind of way. And yes, you do sound like a voice-bot channelling back issues of Banner of Truth as someone has perceptively mentioned.

    I wouldn't have issued you a Hell Call myself, but I can understand Boogie's annoyance.

    Just sayin'.

  • Firenze wrote: »
    I am moving to the opinion that Brother Jude is a fictional character in the mould of Holy Willie or Mr Chadband. On the grounds that no one could be that sickeningly pious in RL.

    If by pious you mean devoutly religious, I suppose I could be seen as such in reality, though that is far from my intent; wether here or irl I only seek to edify & to find edifying words amongst those who also seek God.

    If instead you refer to hypocrisy, I strive every day to not be a hypocrite, & God willing, I am not

    And you are qualified to act as an edifier because???

    Not a hypocrite - who knows? I suppose we'll have to take your word for it.

    You seek only to "find edifying words amongst those who also seek God" - WTF do you mean by that?

    I suppose there is a remote chance that in a parallel universe you are the incarnation of Obadiah Slope .... In the immortal words of Private Eye's Lord Gnome "I think we should be told".
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    fineline wrote: »
    Seriously, Brother Jude, the point of Purgatory is debate. It's not about leaving things there in the hopes that they'll edify people, and refusing to argue, because you think arguing is unbiblical. That is not an equal form of discussion. We present our views, listen to other views, decide if we agree or disagree, or if we are not sure, and we talk about what we disagree on. Not as a hostile thing, but to explore ideas. None of us can fully understand God, and other people's ideas can make you think and reconsider your own ideas. But it's not about entering a discussion, putting your thoughts out there to edify people, and then refusing to engage them in discussion if they argue.

    If you go back to the aforementioned exchange you will see that I did try and have an earnest discussion of the topic and the points I made. With all due respect to the other poster I was met with only responses of, what basically amounted to, You are wrong because you are wrong. If argument is what must be in Purgatory I will gladly oblige, that said, if the argument turns to one of ill conceived notions, where it is obvious that my point is likely not even being read, I will humbly back away and abstain.

    I have seen the aforementioned exchange, and I didn't see anyone saying you were wrong because you were wrong. I saw people challenging the basis of your arguments. Maybe in a different style from what you are used to, but in the same way as you want people to accept your style, even though it may come across to them as rude, you need to also accept other people's styles, and look beyond that to what they are saying. People were engaging seriously with you.

This discussion has been closed.