Advice to Brother Jude: quit digging. Seriously, the more you contest this the more trouble you get yourself into. You've said 'sorry' once, you can't seem to stop yourself from adding justifications which only get people more upset... just walk away from the thread and go play in the Circus or Heaven or something. Take it as a learning experience. But quit digging.
Right you are. With the way this thread has gone it would seem to me that it may be better found in the Dead Horse section, with me as the dead horse.
Right you are. With the way this thread has gone it would seem to me that it may be better found in the Dead Horse section, with me as the dead horse.[/quote]
Oh, pleeeeeease! Spare us the melodrama and get over yourself.
Actually I thought he actually made a funny. I hope so. I thought it a good effort. And it would be nice to think that he has a bit of humor in his repertoire.
I took it as a bit of both - humour (even down to the old-fashioned British expression - and see, I bet Brits don't find the 'right you are' as odd as your young American buddies might, Jude, so it won't be such a communication difficulty here) but to make a bit of a melodramatic point.
Though I don't think you are being flogged, Jude. People are being real and direct with you. Not everyone may believe your intentions were purely kind and humble, but that's okay, and it doesn't mean people think you were wholly nasty and proud either. We don't tend to see things in such black and white terms here. If you keep posting in the forums, people will get to know you more.
Actually I thought he actually made a funny. I hope so. I thought it a good effort. And it would be nice to think that he has a bit of humor in his repertoire.
Yes - I saw it as a wry comment rather than a flounce.
‘Right you are’ is a very common expression round here.
Thank you, Brother Jude, for sharing of your history and situation. I would think that took courage, and am grateful you took that risk. It blesses me to hear your openness.
It took courage for me to move from lurker to Shippie. After I made some early posts one Shippie commented that my posts sound like sermons, and possibly long ones at that. I took that off hand comment to heart, and thrice and four times blessed be s/he for making it! Now I try to keep in mind Robert Farrar Capon’s comment that at times it seems that St. Paul ignored the promptings of the Holy Spirit to put down his pen and go to sleep. I learn over and over again that I am only as wise as God’s grace makes me, and that I do not always need to speak, so will end with that thought.
Hi Brother Jude, this is only the second thread I have posted on - I was greatly moved by your recent posts ... plus the fact my vicar gave a sermon (sorry, I am new to the CoE, "message") this morning that was as my American colleagues would say "awesome".
Put simply, please stay.
This is a place of immense wisdom, learning, conflict and requires great humour and patience. I lurked here for far too long, but you will be ... appreciated.
I am a trier and one thing I know is that we are all in this together, and Christianity comes in many flavours. I value those flavours, don't believe in super-Christians or even "mature Christians". Reading here doesn't challenge my faith so much as my personal preconceptions!
Babywombat "I learn over and over again that I am only as wise as God’s grace makes me, and that I do not always need to speak" ... Amen
I have just read the last few pages of this thread. I had been avoiding it.
It is almost 20 years since the greatest disaster of my life, and almost 19 years since a vivid conversion experience reoriented me. The power of my experience led me not only back to the Bible and church, but to seek a liberal Christian education and to try to become a minister. Eventually, it became clear that I was unsuited to such a role, and instead I practice my Christianity as a Disability Support Worker. I'm more or less suited to that, my weakness being my laziness.
It was my experience that my Christianity was intense in the period immediately after my conversion, but that eventually I became more balanced in my approach. These days my mental health is on track, work and home are on track, and everything looks rosy. I'm free to colloquially obsess about my first love, politics.
I see some of that certainty and intensity in Brother Jude, and I wish him well on his journey, in life and on the ship.
For me, if someone is not seeking material aid or I don't intend to donate, it just doesn't matter if their persona here varies from who they are in real life. Of course there are different considerations for staff, but for me, I interact with people here at face value. Anything else is too hard, and what if I'm wrong and they are on the level about their vulnerability? That said, people have different life experiences. YMMV
I have read some of this with some confusion. The Ship is an uplifting place. It allows space for genuine discussion. You don’t have to
Pretend to be someone you are not. Hell is a place for arguments and rants. It functions well as a venting space and helps keep more serious boards from getting bogged down.
Jesus was many things but nice was not one of them. He argued with religious leaders, tipped over the tables of the traiders in the temple and treated women in a way that did not fit with social norms (in a positive way). We need to be like him if we claim to be his followers.
Agreed Simon Toad, but Brother Jude seems not to understand the ship. It is already as he suggests just not in a way he seems to understand it. Argument and discussion and the occasional emotional out break are all part of who we are in Jesus. Yes we need to be angry at all h correct things and we are only human so not the perfect God, but I also think BJ is confusing being Christian with being nice. It is not.
I think we are in danger of being in furious agreement, and to avoid that dreadful outcome, I think I identify with following Paul following Jesus. It's probably the Mick in me, the need for an intermediary. I guess its Paul's obviously flawed humanity and struggle towards truth that does it for me. I also hate the idea of perfection.
I we are in furious agreement. Yes we are not perfect, yes we need to try and follow Jesus, but Jesus wasn’t nice. We would rather be comfortable than aggravate the situation. Jesus was not like that. I think BJ is in the nice camp.
Comments
Right you are. With the way this thread has gone it would seem to me that it may be better found in the Dead Horse section, with me as the dead horse.
Oh, pleeeeeease! Spare us the melodrama and get over yourself.
Remains to be seen if that is a possibility at all.
Though I don't think you are being flogged, Jude. People are being real and direct with you. Not everyone may believe your intentions were purely kind and humble, but that's okay, and it doesn't mean people think you were wholly nasty and proud either. We don't tend to see things in such black and white terms here. If you keep posting in the forums, people will get to know you more.
Yes - I saw it as a wry comment rather than a flounce.
‘Right you are’ is a very common expression round here.
It took courage for me to move from lurker to Shippie. After I made some early posts one Shippie commented that my posts sound like sermons, and possibly long ones at that. I took that off hand comment to heart, and thrice and four times blessed be s/he for making it! Now I try to keep in mind Robert Farrar Capon’s comment that at times it seems that St. Paul ignored the promptings of the Holy Spirit to put down his pen and go to sleep. I learn over and over again that I am only as wise as God’s grace makes me, and that I do not always need to speak, so will end with that thought.
Put simply, please stay.
This is a place of immense wisdom, learning, conflict and requires great humour and patience. I lurked here for far too long, but you will be ... appreciated.
I am a trier and one thing I know is that we are all in this together, and Christianity comes in many flavours. I value those flavours, don't believe in super-Christians or even "mature Christians". Reading here doesn't challenge my faith so much as my personal preconceptions!
Babywombat "I learn over and over again that I am only as wise as God’s grace makes me, and that I do not always need to speak" ... Amen
It is almost 20 years since the greatest disaster of my life, and almost 19 years since a vivid conversion experience reoriented me. The power of my experience led me not only back to the Bible and church, but to seek a liberal Christian education and to try to become a minister. Eventually, it became clear that I was unsuited to such a role, and instead I practice my Christianity as a Disability Support Worker. I'm more or less suited to that, my weakness being my laziness.
It was my experience that my Christianity was intense in the period immediately after my conversion, but that eventually I became more balanced in my approach. These days my mental health is on track, work and home are on track, and everything looks rosy. I'm free to colloquially obsess about my first love, politics.
I see some of that certainty and intensity in Brother Jude, and I wish him well on his journey, in life and on the ship.
For me, if someone is not seeking material aid or I don't intend to donate, it just doesn't matter if their persona here varies from who they are in real life. Of course there are different considerations for staff, but for me, I interact with people here at face value. Anything else is too hard, and what if I'm wrong and they are on the level about their vulnerability? That said, people have different life experiences. YMMV
Pretend to be someone you are not. Hell is a place for arguments and rants. It functions well as a venting space and helps keep more serious boards from getting bogged down.
Jesus was many things but nice was not one of them. He argued with religious leaders, tipped over the tables of the traiders in the temple and treated women in a way that did not fit with social norms (in a positive way). We need to be like him if we claim to be his followers.
But we do, as Christians™ need to at least try to follow Jesus.
Not easy. I know whereof I speak.
Furious agreement I think.