Rublev

BoogieBoogie Shipmate
edited April 2019 in Hell
@Rublev

You generate a lot of interesting discussion on the boards.

But please, please could you start discussing the topic? Put your point of view rather than just asking questions as if we are your students.

You deserve the reactions on this thread. It shows what happens if everyone responds as you do - it isn’t a discussion at all.

I don’t intend to respond on there again until you start engaging with the topic as you expect us to.

It gets annoying over time tbh.

🙄🙄
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Comments

  • Boogie, you're a star. Well done.

    (and is Rublev the returning Svtlana92?)
  • I have so often almost started this thread!
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    I think this gets to the nub of it:
    I don't know the answer to that one. But maybe someone can think of a good one.

    @Rublev, your many OPs give the impression that the above perfectly summarises your thought process prior to posting.

    You appear to have the sort of question I might ask myself while cleaning my teeth, or during a boring moment in church, but rather than think about it yourself for a while, you move straight on to inviting other people to do your thinking for you.

    This comes across as lazy, and is the kind of approach that lies behind the Ship's dislike of homework threads. It will not earn you any respect here.

    On the other hand, I also suspect you of being a bit disingenuous. I suspect that you actually do have rather more thoughts about your many OPs than you let on, but that for x reasons you don't want to share them.

    This comes across as superior, and won't earn you any respect here either.

    I'm convinced you have interesting things to contribute, but I wish you'd say them straight up and defend them instead of merely changing subjects, or indeed starting whole new threads, every time you're challenged. Interaction is what it's all about here.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    @Eutychus said - On the other hand, I also suspect you of being a bit disingenuous. I suspect that you actually do have rather more thoughts about your many OPs than you let on, but that for x reasons you don't want to share them.

    Yes, I feel that @Rublev is not really engaging with us, not being herself.

    I don’t see it as superior but I do see it as insincere and distant. Yep - disingenuous is the word.
    I'm convinced you have interesting things to contribute, but I wish you'd say them straight up and defend them instead of merely changing subjects, or indeed starting whole new threads, every time you're challenged. Interaction is what it's all about here.

    Yes - and the endless questions! Your OPs are good and have sparked some interesting discussions. But you throw in question bombs and stand back. It’s boring and annoying imo.
    @Rublev said on the thread I linked to - I am interested in discussing theological questions. Blessed is the one who takes no offense at me.


    ARRRRRGH!

    I’m not offended, I’m booored!

    🙄🙄
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    To me, there's an important question that underlies this. Is the underlying argument that if Jesus could be angry, then it's OK for me to be angry, shout at people and kick the cat?

    And if not, why not? What's the difference?

    If the difference is whether the anger is righteous or not, if I'm angry, shout at the television and kick the cat because I'm angry with the news and the government's callousness towards the poor or the immigrant, is that more OK than being angry because I got up with a headache?

    As has been cynically but truthfully said, what most of the people who shout 'I want justice' really mean, is that they want their lawyers to achieve 'an injustice but in my favour'.
  • O-ka-ay - so this comment here:
    Rublev wrote: »
    My views on hell calls are common knowledge. I don't post on those threads.
    makes me wonder where those views have been posted before.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    @Rublev started a Styx thread on the topic, though TBH it isn’t entirely clear to me what her view was at the start or at the end of the thread, nor that she was not going to post on Hell threads.
  • That thread too left me with feelings that I recognised this poster's style, but I can't quite track it down. The disruptive questioning reminds me of Eddie, and wide-eyed innocent naivety has tones of Audrey or Svtlana92.

    It's why I haven't been engaging on those threads, the behaviour makes me feel as if I'm being played.
  • Rublev wrote: »
    Blessed is the one who takes no offense at me.

    Does this strike anyone else as being just a little messianic?
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Rublev wrote: »
    Blessed is the one who takes no offense at me.

    Does this strike anyone else as being just a little messianic?

    Nailed it. Isn't that what Jesus often did? Raise lots of questions, get discussion going, and let "his" people work it out for themselves?
  • TBH after reading through some of Rublev's posts and the tutor type questioning I now ignore any discussions (s)he initiates, and spend much more time away from the Ship then I once did.

    I find it insulting to raise a question with the questioner not revealing their own thoughts -- and it feels like a homework post rather than a discussion, or a smug show of superiority, expecting others to guess at just what the correct answer might be. I do not choose to dance to such tunes in the hopes of getting it 'right'.

  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    As someone whose natural way of exploring issues is to ask lots of questions, to hear the variety of views, to then process and think about them, and ask more questions, I do kind of get Rublev's approach. And I feel aware that not everyone can always express themselves in a personable way - it can be difficult to focus both on exploring the issues, following trains of logic, and also on choosing words and 'soft language' to ensure your friendly intentions are conveyed, that you are expressing your humanity and self-awareness, so that people can feel comfortable with you. I was once told on the old Ship that I sounded like my faith was purely intellectual, not emotional or spiritual. I would disagree, but find it very hard to put emotional and spiritual into words.

    So I don't feel so annoyed by Rublev's posts as some seem to, but equally I do sometimes get the impression of what Eutychus said - of disingenuousness, that Rublev has answers and explanations already in mind that she wants to impart to us after we've shared our suggestions. Though Rublev knows I think this, as I already said it to her before, in one of her threads. I do get the impression she was on the old Ship, but she has never said she wasn't or claimed to be new, and if someone wants to make a new start on the new ship, with a new name, then why not?

    Something I do feel quite strongly is that many of the topics Rublev raises are very interesting, and could potentially lead to some really in-depth discussions, but unfortunately they don't because she starts so many. If I were starting a topic I was really interested in exploring, I'd want to spend several days engaging in it, asking deeper questions - not just starting it off, dipping in, and then starting many more completely different topics. Obviously everyone's different and has a different approach, but personally, I think this is a shame, because I enjoy such discussion when they are more in-depth, and when the person asking is more involved.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    O-ka-ay - so this comment here:
    Rublev wrote: »
    My views on hell calls are common knowledge. I don't post on those threads.
    makes me wonder where those views have been posted before.

    In the thread Rublev started about Hell calls and how she doesn't like them, and sees them as destructive and bullying. You saw that thread, Ck. You posted on it.

  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    I'll respond to that Fineline. I've never posted on the ship before. And I haven't done theology online before. I'm more used to writing articles for the church magazine. So my approach is more academic than conversational. Which I can see would work much better if I could learn how to do it. When I encountered the ships theology forums I was delighted to find an opportunity to explore my questions, engage in deep theological reflection and take part in debates. It has made me a much better theologian because people will challenge anything that is not waterproof. I hear what you are saying and I will put a sock in it.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I am not asking you to put a sock in it, Rublev. Personally, I hope you stay. I think the questions you ask are interesting. Is there a way you can post them less often, and be more involved with each one, so they can get more response, and be more developed? If you want to, that is. It feels to me that the questions aren't getting the in-depth discussion they deserve, and which potentially would be interesting for you.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    See, responding in Hell doesn't have to be so bad. I'm glad you weighed in. All most people are asking is that along with the questions you ask, you throw in some (at least tentative) answers of your own. A problem easily remedied it would seem.
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    Doc Tor tried to explain hell to me, but I didn't really understand. I will run my future posts by one of the hosts first. I'm sure they will help me to outline them in the right way for a good discussion.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Rublev wrote: »
    Doc Tor tried to explain hell to me, but I didn't really understand. I will run my future posts by one of the hosts first. I'm sure they will help me to outline them in the right way for a good discussion.

    That’s unnecessary and a bit extreme - and a bit much work for the hosts imo.

    I’m also glad you weighed in, and well done @fineline - level headed and balanced as ever - for coaxing you here. :smile:

    Hell is for getting personal, personal criticism, questions etc - not allowed on other boards. Personal doesn’t have to be hellish - and I hope my OP wasn’t. It wasn’t meant to be. I like your discussion pieces, they add value to the Ship.

    Two things I’d like -

    For you post what you think instead of just asking us what we think.

    For you to leave a few days between OPs so that discussion can really get going on the ones you’ve started.
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    Yes, I will do just as you advise.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Rublev wrote: »
    Blessed is the one who takes no offense at me.

    Does this strike anyone else as being just a little messianic?

    Nailed it. Isn't that what Jesus often did? Raise lots of questions, get discussion going, and let "his" people work it out for themselves?

    I think it was supposed to be a joke!
  • Rublev wrote: »
    I'll respond to that Fineline. I've never posted on the ship before. And I haven't done theology online before. I'm more used to writing articles for the church magazine. So my approach is more academic than conversational. Which I can see would work much better if I could learn how to do it. When I encountered the ships theology forums I was delighted to find an opportunity to explore my questions, engage in deep theological reflection and take part in debates. It has made me a much better theologian because people will challenge anything that is not waterproof. I hear what you are saying and I will put a sock in it.
    How would you define a good theologian? Or a better one?

  • Surely that's a question for Purgatory?
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Rublev, I think it was 2006 when I joined the Ship, and I didn't get the point of Hell at all. We had a chat room back then, and I'd ask there, and also asked on another site that had some of the same people, and people explained to me several times in different ways, and I still didn't really get it. Not because I think Christians should always be nice to each other, and not because I'm afraid of confrontation or being challenged, but simply because sometimes it seemed like a playground for people to be bullies, and have fun getting out all their favourite insults. And I do still think that was part of it, and sometimes still is, though much less than it used to be.

    What confused me most was that people were advised not to go into Hell if they were new, and were told it was like putting a bullseye on your chest and you had to wear bullet-proof underwear, and I had no idea what that meant. Thing is, for me, the only way I could start to understand it was post there myself, without any metaphorical bullet-proof underwear, because I had no idea what putting on such metaphorical underwear entailed. And I could only post in the way I write, not a different Hell-type style, and I honestly expected to be told to leave the Hell board for not doing Hell properly! So you are not alone in not getting Hell, and I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of.

    As for Keryg, I never posted there in the old Ship, because I didn't understand it either. I didn't know what the word meant (still don't) and thought it referred to some posh high church tradition of which I was unaware. Although I was happy and comfortable discussing Bible passages in church groups (evangelical churches - and I was very aware that many people here seemed to sneer at evangelicals and our 'little cuppies' for communion!). I thought there was a different, fancy way of doing it here - and because there was a thread on Greek and Hebrew script, I thought I must be the only one reading the Bible in English translation. I'm saying all this because I imagine maybe there are others who might feel the same, and also to show that it can be difficult to understand how the Ship works, especially if you are from a different sort of church tradition, and that is okay. And I don't see it as terrible if people post a bit differently and don't really get how the Ship works - it can take a while.

    Anyway, I was just thinking about my first post in Keryg about a Bible passage - I think it is this thread. I haven't done many. I wasn't sure if it was the right board, or if it was okay to post that sort of question, or if it was okay to post if I'm not a Bible scholar. And I also didn't know what I thought of the passage - that is why I was posting it, because I was confused and wanted to hear other people's thoughts. And people didn't mind that I didn't know - maybe the fact that I expressed that I found it confusing helped people see why I was asking, so they didn't think I was testing them with a school-type question or anything. I'm saying this because I think it's okay to not know what you think, and to ask because you want to hear views, but maybe it is helpful to actually say you are finding it confusing. Gives people some context why you are asking, more of a sense of you as a person.

    I hope that helps. I think people's reactions to your posts have made me remember how very confusing I found the Ship for many years.
  • Rublev wrote: »
    I'll respond to that Fineline. I've never posted on the ship before. And I haven't done theology online before. I'm more used to writing articles for the church magazine. So my approach is more academic than conversational.

    There's your problem. The ship is a discussion site, not an academic site. Conversation is what we do.
  • Mark Betts wrote: »
    Ohher wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Rublev wrote: »
    Blessed is the one who takes no offense at me.

    Does this strike anyone else as being just a little messianic?

    Nailed it. Isn't that what Jesus often did? Raise lots of questions, get discussion going, and let "his" people work it out for themselves?

    I think it was supposed to be a joke!

    If so, then it wasn't funny given the context. People who act messianically can't post jokes about having a messiah complex. Poe's Law and all.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    Love Fineline's post above. It reminded me of my first time here when I was arguing a point with Sarkycow in Purgatory and a moderator told me if I wanted to keep talking to her I should call her to Hell. So, trying to be obedient to the moderator, I did call her to Hell and everyone was horrified and shocked.

    I was happy to see the question about Jesus getting angry, because I've worried over it quite a bit myself. So I was getting a bit angry miffed when the thread was interrupted over and over and over again to repeatedly ask Rublev what he thought.

    It seemed obvious to me that he wasn't sure where he came down on the subject and that's why he wanted to hear the topic discussed.

    Next, several people had to tell him his posting style didn't conform to the usual style on the ship. Gasp! Get the plank.
  • Twilight wrote: »
    It seemed obvious to me that he wasn't sure where he came down on the subject and that's why he wanted to hear the topic discussed.

    If this were the first thread she did this on, rather than the 20th, that might not have irked so many people. Her M.O. seems to be to start threads without ever saying what she thinks, and then before actually weighing in, to start another. And over, and over, and over.
    Next, several people had to tell him his posting style didn't conform to the usual style on the ship. Gasp! Get the plank.

    Get over yourself, Robin Hood.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    Not one of your better analogies, MT.

    I will admit I haven't encountered him much before so, yes, too much of anything can be irritating.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    I think you’ll find Rublev is not he but she.
  • @mousethief It was Rublev's 54th new thread - To put that in context, I've started 33 threads, Marvin who set up all the board rules has started 15, Eutychus has started 34 threads and Barnabas62, who is a host on two boards, has started 33 threads.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    Twilight wrote: »
    I will admit I haven't encountered him much before so, yes, too much of anything can be irritating.
    Rublev has started 54 threads since she got here 67 days ago. In many if not most of those 54 threads, a number of shipmates—including hosts in their hostly capacity—have encouraged her to not just drop questions like a professor testing the class, but rather to acclimate to the Ship, to engage in the discussions and offer her own thoughts and views—not just in her own threads but elsewhere as well.

    She’s had plenty of mostly friendly feedback on how many are reacting to her posting style, and has pretty much ignored it all. Under the circumstances, what happened in this thread was inevitable sooner or later.

    ETA: cross-posted with @Curiosity killed.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    @mousethief It was Rublev's 54th new thread - To put that in context, I've started 33 threads, Marvin who set up all the board rules has started 15, Eutychus has started 34 threads and Barnabas62, who is a host on two boards, has started 33 threads.

    Wow! LOL. I've started one discussion since the new ship opened. I just realized this forum doesn't list "started by" next to the thread titles, just last person to post. I think that's why I hadn't noticed how many she started.
  • Twilight wrote: »
    Not one of your better analogies, MT.

    Oh really. Name one of my other analogies.
  • Look, I was glad to see Rublev show up and start Keryg threads, because I love that board and it's echoingly empty much of the time. But I get the distinct impression that Rublev starts a thread with a question while holding in reserve a "correct interpretation" which she intends to spring on us after we have proven our cluelessness. Being the bitch that I am, I have taken great joy in derailing that strategy by providing the most complete and academic answer that I can. Now you all know my deeply, deeply UnChristian™ motives for writing terrible long screeds on Rublev's threads. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa...
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    mousethief wrote: »
    Twilight wrote: »
    Not one of your better analogies, MT.

    Oh really. Name one of my other analogies.

    Ooh! I love playing "miss (direct) the point".
    I'm going to go with "Betty". Your analogies often sound like a Betty to me.
  • RooK wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Twilight wrote: »
    Not one of your better analogies, MT.

    Oh really. Name one of my other analogies.

    Ooh! I love playing "miss (direct) the point".
    I'm going to go with "Betty". Your analogies often sound like a Betty to me.

    I knew Twilight wouldn't think of that angle. If I have to be side-slapped, I suppose you will do.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    I'm just amazed that Mousethief has the nerve to show up on this thread and join the complaints about someone posting too much.

    @Rublev, please, explain your username! I thought you were a man because I was thinking maybe Ruben Levi, now all I've got is Ruby something or is it about money?
  • Rublev is more than welcome to disregard your question if they feel answering is going to reveal too much personal information, or is a private matter, or for no reason at all and you're a dick.

    DT
    HH
  • Twilight wrote: »
    I'm just amazed that Mousethief has the nerve to show up on this thread and join the complaints about someone posting too much...
    Way to miss the issue
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Rublev already did explain her user name a while back.
  • FWIW, Rublev's icon:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_(Andrei_Rublev)

    Make of that what you will, of course, but that was my first thought on seeing the name on the Ship.
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    I have a Rublev icon of the Trinity on my mantelpiece. So when I registered for the ship and was asked for an avatar name it was the first thing that came to mind. I think that other shipmates have avatars with much more imaginative names. My favourite one is Arethosemyfeet.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Heh, that is similar to the way I choose usernames. I had a fineline pen on my desk.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    I’m named after my first dog - no surprise there! 🐶
  • And I'm named for a local ALE.....
    :grin:
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    Oh thanks Rublev! I like "Arethosemyfeet", too. My all time favorite is a shipmate who has an avatar of a "so ugly she's cute" nun and the name "Left at the Altar."

    I chose Twilight because we had signature lines at the time and mine was the passage about, "Now we see as through a glass darkly..." Also, I'm in my twilight years. Also, it's one of my favorite songs. That was before the Twilight books and movies.

    Oh, and I'm a woman too. Doc Tor just likes to call me a dick because he thinks I am one and because he knows how much I hate it. It is my gender right to be called a bitch!
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    I haven't got a signature line. I shall have to meditate about one.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Rublev wrote: »
    I haven't got a signature line. I shall have to meditate about one.

    Alas, sig lines were a feature of our old vessel. his newer version no longer provides that option.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    I miss them. :disappointed:
  • As for name's Mark isn't my name. But there's a couple of clues there
This discussion has been closed.