Colin Smith's novel...
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
...appears in bits in several posts in Heaven, with Mr Smith asking for reactions/comments on his writing. Surely, this is a Homework Thread?
I have no personal axe to grind, but from this, and other threads, I get the distinct impression that the Ship is being used by this gentleman for research purposes.
I have no personal axe to grind, but from this, and other threads, I get the distinct impression that the Ship is being used by this gentleman for research purposes.
Comments
I hope Your People drive a hard bargain with His People.
And if that host post isn't clear enough, the Styx is the place to post any questions about that, on this thread.
Not critique the work of literature in question, and yes @mousethief, I'm looking at you.
Eutychus
SoF Admin
I did not ask for any feedback. All I wrote was “I hope it entertains more than it annoys” Therefore not a homework post.
Heaven guidelines. "Communal writings – the Ship of Fools Song Book, a progressive novel, or your holiday planning guide." That appeared to cover what I was doing.
Copyright. Ship of Fools reserves the right to use any material posted on the Ship for it's own purposes. But that does not mean I have surrendered my right to do as I see fit with my work.
IOW, we are ALL under authority here.
They have not been in touch.
It's 345pm here, and my lunch is about ready to be taken out of the oven.
BTW, your Heaven thread has been closed. Go and have a look.
Yes, you're still free to do what you want with your own words. Even though I'm neither a lawyer nor publisher, it seems fairly obvious to me that if you come to publish that elsewhere then there could be potential legal complications if the copyright on part of what you want to publish is also held by someone else. As a rule, I try to avoid doing things which might result in needing to get a lawyer involved at some point in the future. On the other hand, if you're posting extracts as a teaser to make us consider buying the whole work then I also direct you to our rules regarding advertising.
I know it's closed.
Overall, my experience on the Ship has been odd. I rather assumed that if a writer wanted to depict Christians and their relationship with faith and the church then Christians might want him to get it right. That has certainly been the case elsewhere. On the Ship, however, there seems to be an objection to the very idea of someone using the Ship for their own ends.
It's also an odd position to take when everything here, bar the private forums, is accessible to non-members.
Thank you. I had misunderstood the guidelines. The copyright issue does not concern me. The work is not for sale so I am not advertising.
We were "in touch" right from the moment a host intervened on the thread on question.
We certainly aren't going to take the initiative to sound out every registered user about their posting intentions. We expect users to read the 10 Commandments, FAQs, and Guidelines, and generally expect them to behave like responsible adults.
It's not unusal for people to message H&A's for advice, including potential copyright issues, if they're not sure about posting something and we are happy to provide it (within reasonable limits).
As I understand it, the fact that something isn't for sale doesn't mean copyright isn't a potential issue. And advertising definitely isn't restricted to things that are for sale. Neither is self-publicity. Both are covered by Commandment 9.
Apologies. I meant I have not been messaged.
I was not advertising and I was not engaging in self-promotion. I was responding to a couple of direct attacks on my writing (which no one here had read) by Rossweise and Doc Tor. I wanted to show that I can write believable Christian characters. I also hoped other readers might find it amusing. There were no other reasons. I have read the ten commandments and do not believe I break any of them.
Your characters may well be amusing, and believable, but this, it seems is, not the place in which to establish that!
Am I missing something here?
What is more, you placed the copyright symbol after each excerpt: in other words, you were attempting to assert your ownership rights over work fixed on a medium that belongs to Ship of Fools. This despite your claim above that copyright was not an issue for you.
These boards don't exist for you or anyone else to post 2500 consecutive words of anything, still less to try and foist (allegedly) copyrighted material on us. They exist to have online discussions.
I agree with your point. I would also say this is not the place to attack someone's ability to write fiction, as Rossweisse and Doc Tor did, without having read any of it.
Anyway, I won't be posting any more extracts. I do have a blog but nothing from this particular novel is on it.
I've also concluded that those who dislike the idea of a non-Christian coming here to find out and ask questions will never approve of what they have done with the information gained.
The irony is, if I wanted to mock Christians and Christianity I could do so without bothering to ask Christians anything.
So what you're saying is anyone is free to slag off someone's creative work sight-unseen, but that person cannot reply by actually showing the work in question to prove they are wrong.
The reason it was 2500 words is those scenes cover the Easter Vigil, which happened last night. It seemed appropriate to take the action right through to dawn.
You were perfectly entitled to call your critics to Hell.
What you're not allowed to do is post huge walls of text in response, still less attempt to copyright it.
As has been suggested, keep your walls of text on a blog. This is not the right place for them, still less for you to attempt to copyright text you post here.
'This place' being Hell which is exactly the only place on the entire ship where you can do that. If you'd like to continue this line of thought, you know the way.
@Colin Smith , as @Eutychus says, just be careful that you don't, in so trawling, breach others' copyright.....
When you first joined the ship, you made a thread asking if it was appropriate to post your fiction here, and we all had a long discussion where people explained in detail the purpose of the threads we have here, the concept of community, the fact that it would be more appropriate to post your fiction in a writers group, etc.
That would also work. But I'm tired of fighting battles and this is getting to be a distraction.
Plagiarism should always be avoided.
But ISTM that the wearisome lengths of the extracts pointed to something outside the Ship's guidelines. I make no comment as to the accuracy, interesting (or not) nature etc. etc. of those extracts.
Yes, it was hell. I don't see that as an excuse.
As I said, I posted the work in response to attacks. I don't believe there is ever an excuse for personal attacks.
In other words, your own work is more important to you than adapting to others' legitimate expectations ("fighting battles"). That kind of explains why you're having trouble fitting in.
Is there a particular reason why your presence here should be a battle, or that you need to fight?
Is this a question of you having difficulty understanding the rules?
Or is it more that there is a discrepancy between what you would like this community to be, in your ideal world where communities are Colin-Smith-shaped (and believe me, I'd love a fineline-shaped community too!), and the reality of what the community actually is?
Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.....
It is fair to say that I am uncommonly self-centred and am not inclined to meet society or family's legitimate expectations, whatever they might be.
It's not funny, not welcoming, and not accommodating, and you are already in my little black book because of it.
Right, so you disagree with the existence of, and reasoning behind, the Hell forum. Did you see the thread Rublev started, asking the purpose of Hell, from a similar viewpoint? People elaborated in detail on why it was decided to have such a forum. You may or may not agree, but it will show you the history and the thinking behind it, and the fact that it's not about to change just because some people don't like it. Also worth bearing in mind that it is possible to be a member of this community (if you wish to be) and never post in Hell, even if you are called to Hell. You can avoid it altogether.
In Ship hosting terms, the bolded part above constitutes a personal attack.
And it's by you.
Word to the wise noted, and taken on board.
Sorry about that - I seem to have Too Much Time on my hands....
I have difficulty with the community aspect, not least because I have never regarded myself as, or wanted to be a member of a community. Having lived in eight counties and some twenty towns, villages and cities, in the last 25 years I have rarely been anywhere long enough to become part of the community.
As "communities" go, I rather prefer the competing voices of Facebook. Of cpurse, Facebook groups can gather around shared interests, but no one in the group offers much in the way of commitment. And no, I think I'd hate a community that was "Colin-Smith-shaped".
Yes, I wish I had never posted in hell. I didn't even notice the thread I was commenting on was in hell. The idea that different rules of behaviour apply in different places is completely new to me. I act and speak the same way anywhere I go online.
-RooK
Styx Host
Ah okay. Since you are not interested in being part of a community, does it then actually matter to you if certain members of the community get annoyed with you, misunderstand you, or make derogatory comments about your writing ability without having read your work?
There are of course a lot of Christian groups on Facebook. In terms of posting your novel, I wonder if you might find an audience there.
Good manners are good manners everywhere. I'm not after an audience. I joined the Ship hoping I could get some advice on depicting Christians and Christianity. It hasn't worked out as I hoped.
I am coming to the point where I think I shall write as I see fit and if some Christians don't like it, sobeit.
Okay.