Holy Week experiences

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  • I recently resigned my pastoral position (bleh-- long, sad story), so for the first time in 10 years I was free to sample widely. Next year I hope to be re-rooted somewhere, so we decided to take full advantage of the opportunity:

    Maundy Thursday with the Presbyterians
    Easter vigil with the Episcopalians
    Easter service on Saturday with the Pentecostals (which for scheduling reasons ended up prior to the vigil, but, hey)
    Easter Sunday at a post-post evangelical new church development

    Enjoyed it all in it's wild diversity. A full sampler platter.
  • OblatusOblatus Shipmate
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    ]
    Both Smokey Mary's (oh, all right, "St. Mary the Virgin") in NYC and Church of the Ascension (O higher than the seraphim...) in Chicago have Anglo-Catholic traditions and excellent choral programs. How odd that neither have them have Tenebrae.

    Quite right. I've never experienced Tenebrae at Ascension, although I'd bet it's been done at least once in the past (don't know when). I should ask around for a reason: my guesses would be that it might be one thing too many among the richness of our Holy Week (and the busy preparations thereof). Another might be that Holy Wednesday (the most popular evening for Tenebrae, it seems) was for years the rehearsal night for the Maundy Thursday liturgy...it was moved only this year to Palm Sunday after High Mass.

    We will, however, have a Great Paschal Vespers on the afternoon of the Second Sunday of Easter (Low Sunday). With choir. Y'all come. April 28 at 4pm Central time.
  • *cries*
    Our Easter Sunday was the usual hymn sandwich. The visiting minister doesn't even do lighting the paschal candle. Our former minister taunted me with a photo of theirs.
  • Isla WhiteIsla White Shipmate Posts: 1
    My son's mother-in-law came with the rest of the family for Easter. She's a staunch Roman Catholic so we took her to the local church. During communion, there was a elderly man sitting in the front row who was unable to get up. As each person went forward to be given a wafer, he held out his hands, then had to withdraw them as the person brushed past him to go to where an assistant was holding the cup. When I reached the priest, I stood back and indicated the man. The priest stepped down and gave him a wafer, but the assistant did not take the cup to him.
    The amount of wine and wafers was too small for the number of people waiting in queue. When the wafers began to run out, an assistant searched for more in something that looked just like a safe fixed to the wall behind the altar. When she couldn't find anything, a second assistant looked. Still nothing, so the priest had a look. He then gave a key to one of the assistants. She went off and came back with a small round golden container. The priest took out a couple of wafers and broke them into tiny pieces - just enough for all those who had been patiently waiting for ages to have a piece. Incredibly, when the service was over, he produced 2 whole wafers which he put in the safe. So it was more important to do that than to give them to the congregation!
    At the same time, as the wine had also run out, an assistant did the 'washing up' in full view of everyone. She tipped the wafer crumbs from the plate into the cup, poured in water and drank it all. This was despite the fact that none of those who were still waiting were given anything to drink. She then wiped the cup and put it away - not very hygienic.
    It made me think of Martha being more concerned with housework than listening to Jesus. Here the Marthas were stopping the Marys taking part. Not Impressed!
  • Pretty rammed service am. Dedicated 2 children, baptised 4 adults by immersion. Breakfast, cake church full. O happy day!
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    Re CAKE - I agree that Simnel Cake is for Mothering Sunday, but somehow we missed out on it this year. Father NewPriest decreed that it should be provided for Easter Day, which it was, and very tasty, too.
    :yum:

    We had CHOCOLATE as well, of course.
    :yum:

    @Isla White - sounds as if they were trying to use the Reserved Sacrament (normally kept in the 'safe' on the altar), but simply didn't have quite enough, hence the tiny fragments. I guess the priest kept 2 wafers back for emergency use with anyone sick or dying. Perhaps the small container was the pyx in which a few wafers are so kept?

    RCs and most Anglicans believe that the Sacrament is equally valid if received in only one kind i.e. the wafer or the wine, and some people only receive the wafer in any case. I do think that the washing-up should be done at the credence table, or a side altar, if possible, though, especially if peeps are still coming up for Communion.

    The CofE's 1662 Prayer Book makes provision for the priest to quietly consecrate more bread/wine as required, if the congregation is larger than anticipated, without repeating the whole service! I don't know if the RCs have a similar practice - perhaps an RC Shipmate could elucidate?
  • As BF has explained many RCs will only receive Holy Communion under the form of bread. It is more than possible that the assistant with the cup would know that the man did not usually receive from the cup.

    As BF has indicated ,the 'safe' on the wall is a very important part of any Catholic church.

    Normally there would be a plentiful supply of consecrated wafers in the 'safe'.Since you probably were not at other liturgies over the Easter period you probably would not know that the 'safe' is emptied on the Thursday before Easter and only on Easter Sunday are Hosts replaced within the tabernacle (to use now Catholic speak)


    At the same time there is often a greater number than usual at Mass on Easter Sunday and it may have been difficult to estimate how many Hosts should be consecrated for the Easter Sunday Mass. It seems that your son's mother-in-law and perhaps you yourself were helping to swell the usual numbers.


    It is extremely important in Catholic rites to have some of the Blessed Sacrament reserved in the tabernacle in order to be able to take this ,when needed to the sick and dying.


    To answer the particular question which BF put,there is no provision in RC rites for a priest to consecrate more Hosts. Hosts are only consecrated when a full eucharistic liturgy of both Word and Sacrament is celebrated.


    It is customary in Roman Catholic rites for the 'washing-up' to be done at the altar at the end of Communion. For reasons which I won't go in to it 'had' to be done at the altar by the priest before the 1960s.Now that there are many lay people who assist in the distribution of Communion and also in the 'purification of the chalices' you will see things done sometimes in slightly different ways.

    Surely that staunch Catholic of Isla White's son's mother-in-law would have been able to tell Isla White these things as a quid pro quo for her very kind gesture in taking her to church.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    At St Sanity, ablutions are done at the credence table - patens rinsed, with the water draining into chalices, the same with the ciboria, then the water is swirled around and drunk (with back turned to the congregation!) None too hygienic at all, which is why there is a thorough washing up afterwards in the vestry.

    That seems standard practice here.
  • Went to Easter Eucharist in the posh church in the posh town with the posh people, most of whom sat for the Eucharistic Prayer (3 women, hubby and me were the die-hard standees). Decent sermon based on Mary’s encounter with Jesus in the garden, and the welcome we all have to meet the risen Lord. Organist and trumpeter in overdive. The choir attempted Randall Thompson’s acapella Alleluia, but lost their pitch quite quickly. After final hymn all were welcomed in singing Handel’s Hallelujah chorus (and a raucous bunch we were!). And then we were treated to a very energetic version of the Widor Toccata as we walked out to the balmy sunshine.
  • Which Mass do you want to hear of...

    First Mass of Easter
    • Lucernarium
      • Priest blesses the fire
      • Paschal Candle is lit
    • Procession
    • Exsultet
    • Liturgy of the Word
      • Four OT Bible readings
      • Gloria (with the ringing of bells
      • collect
      • Epistle
      • Gospel
      • Sermon - five minutes long
    • Baptismal Liturgy
      • Litany of the Saints
      • Blessing of Baptismal Waters
      • Renewal of Baptismal Promises
      • Intercessions
    • Liturgy of the Eucharist
      • Offertory hymn- At the Lamb's high feast we sing
      • Eucharistic prayer including Sanctus
      • Lord's prayer
      • Peace
      • Agnus Dei
      • communion - hymn: The Strife is o'er
    • Post Communion
      • Prayer
      • Blessing
      • Dismissal
      • Hymn - Jesus lives! thy terrors now
    • Parish Party - Prosecco, crisps and chocolate cake
    Yes it was after 11pm when I got home.

    Then there was the main Easter Sunday Mass but I did not attend but it had baptisms and a lot of hymn singing along with an affirmation of faith with sprinkling and finished with the Regina Caeli. It was followed with prosecco and nibbles

    Finally evening mass was a simplified version of the morning mass without most of the hymns and no baptism. We did have again an affirmation of faith and sprinkling and Fr has started the shrine candles lit for the evening mass and it was followed with simnel buns.

    Sorry for the briefer description of the last two I did not bring a service booklet home. Judging by the thickness of the booklet the Easter morning mass was no less elaborate than the First Mass of Easter the previous evening.
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    Yesterday I went to a nearby village Methodist service. When we arrived they were just finishing the Easter Breakfast.
    The service was well prepared, with good hymns and liturgy, both on the screen and on service sheets.
    All was going very well until the Minister turned to the Steward who was due to lead the Intercessions. He got muddled up and thought he should take the collection. This skewed the liturgical responses and rather made nonsense of the next hymn. When he did go to lead the intercessions, he had left his notes in his car, so improvised with comments on the state of the world and what we might do about it, not even biddings for prayer, almost like a mini sermon.
    Fortunately the minister got us all back on track with the Eucharistic prayer.
    The very elderly organist got the wrong tune for the last hymn, so another hiatus ensued, but we got there in the end.

    Apart from visiting adult grandchildren, the congregation are all elderly and used to one another’s idiosyncrasies.

    A good time was had by all!
  • Forthview wrote: »
    To answer the particular question which BF put, there is no provision in RC rites for a priest to consecrate more Hosts. Hosts are only consecrated when a full eucharistic liturgy of both Word and Sacrament is celebrated.

    Thanks, @Forthview, for the clarification. I thought such was the case, but wasn't sure. AIUI, the CofE's Prayer Book provision also extends (possibly by spirit rather than by letter?) to Common Worship.

    Your explanation generally fits the scenario - it does look as though they simply got the expected numbers wrong!

    Our Place (during the recent interregnum) got into the habit of making sure there were enough Hosts in the aumbry each week to cover a Sunday Communion By Extension, should no priest be available at the last minute (which did happen on one or two occasions).



  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    <snip>Thanks, @Forthview, for the clarification. I thought such was the case, but wasn't sure. AIUI, the CofE's Prayer Book provision also extends (possibly by spirit rather than by letter?) to Common Worship.
    <snip>
    Yes. Common Worship. makes provision for supplementary consecration if required. (I used it the other week when we had an unusually heavy call on the gluten free wafers.)
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    I thought it would.
    :wink:

    Trust the CofE to be pragmatic when it comes to numbers (or not)!

    Our ASA varies wildly between 20 and 40 - I doubt if we are unique in the CofE, at least in small urban parishes, though proportions might differ......

    Previous years' service registers, as to those attending on High Days and Holy Days, are not as helpful as one might suppose, as our demographics change month by month......
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    Puzzler wrote: »
    Yesterday I went to a nearby village Methodist service. When we arrived they were just finishing the Easter Breakfast.
    The service was well prepared, with good hymns and liturgy, both on the screen and on service sheets.
    All was going very well until the Minister turned to the Steward who was due to lead the Intercessions. He got muddled up and thought he should take the collection. This skewed the liturgical responses and rather made nonsense of the next hymn. When he did go to lead the intercessions, he had left his notes in his car, so improvised with comments on the state of the world and what we might do about it, not even biddings for prayer, almost like a mini sermon.
    Fortunately the minister got us all back on track with the Eucharistic prayer.
    The very elderly organist got the wrong tune for the last hymn, so another hiatus ensued, but we got there in the end.

    Apart from visiting adult grandchildren, the congregation are all elderly and used to one another’s idiosyncrasies.

    A good time was had by all!

    Never mind - glitches are often to be encountered on High Days and Holy Days, in churches and conventicles of all Perswasions!

    We had one yesterday, when the incense-boat could not be found prior to the Gospel reading, and the thurifer had to rush to the sacristy to top up the thurible.

    The boat was later discovered (by me) hidden in the verdure of the Easter Garden, where it had been placed during the Blessing of the said garden at the beginning of the service......meanwhile, the thurifer had had to resort to the sacristy yet again, to top up the thurible for the Offertory and the Eucharistic Prayer....

    O! Those simple, Bible-based, evangelical services! What FUN and LARKS you're missing!

    (Actually, a visiting young family did, in fact, remark on how enjoyable the service was. I don't think they realised that worship can, sometimes, be FUN!)

  • I’ve been pondering one experience since Good Friday, and am still pondering it. But before I share it, a few bits of context might be helpful.

    First, our Good Friday service is fairly simple: Sentences, hymn, Prayer of Confession and Declaration of Pardon, reading of the Passion (John), Solemn Reproaches of the Cross, one more reading and a final hymn. The reading of the Passion is broken up between two readers, with music between each portion—a verse or two of a hymn, an anthem by the choir, or maybe something else.

    And second, we have a wonderful organist/choir director. He is equally at home with a wide variety of musical styles, from traditional sacred choral music to music from Asia, South America and Africa, and lots in-between. And he is a gifted composer. But one thing he does particularly well is to draw out the musical gifts of those in the congregation who aren’t, say, in the choir. If he finds out someone has musical skills of some kind—young people particularly—he looks for ways to draw those gifts into worship. In any given month (or maybe even in any given service), we may have organ, piano, drums (tympani, tumbadoras or djembes), strings, brass, woodwinds, guitars, and more.

    So, I arrived on Good Friday and “suited up” to sing in the choir, then looked over the bulletin while waiting to line up with the choir. That’s when I saw that after the reading of one portion of the Passion, a younger member of the congregation (probably in the 11–13 range) would play “Amazing Grace” on the musical saw. Now, this particular boy has played cello and banjo in church before, and I was actually blown away the first time I heard him play cello—he had been taking lessons for less than a year and sounded much better than some who’ve been taking ten times as long. He’s pretty darned good on a banjo, too. But musical saw? In church? On Good Friday? (And “Amazing Grace,” of all over-done things?)

    So the moment came, and he began to play—not too badly at all. I found myself smiling (inwardly only, I hope) and the thought went through my mind, somewhat jokingly I admit, that I guess it was maybe appropriate enough, given that Jesus was a carpenter, or at least a carpenter’s son.

    And suddenly, how I heard the music changed. Almost immediately, the words of the prayer that I know from the Iona Community (though I have a recollection that it has origins elsewhere) and that I have regularly used in Midday Prayer came to me:
    O Christ, the Master Carpenter,
    who at the last through wood and nails purchased our salvation,
    wield well your tools in the workshop of the world,
    so that we, who come rough-hewn to your bench,
    may here be fashioned to a truer beauty of your hand.

    And as I listened, I felt my heart grow heavy and my eyes moisten just a bit. And after that, the Solemn Reproaches seemed just a bit more reproachful than usual.

    That moment kept returning to me throughout the weekend. Yesterday, on Easter Monday, as it again came to mind, it brought with it—quite out of the blue— the words of George Herbert’s “Easter” ("Rise heart, thy Lord is risen"):
    Awake, my lute, and struggle for thy part
    With all thy art.
    The crosse taught all wood to resound his name
    Who bore the same.
    His stretched sinews taught all strings, what key
    Is best to celebrate this most high day.

    If the cross taught all wood to sing, then why not the tools that formed the cross as well?

    As always, there were many high moments over the course of the Three Days. I would not have expected that the highest and deepest for me would be a middle schooler playing "Amazing Grace" on the musical saw. God moves in mysterious ways indeed.
  • It is good sometimes to have a chuckle at what happens in church and it is amazing when one is deeply moved as something unexpected which happens.
    When one has attended Mass almost daily for well over 60 years it is interesting and instructive to read the comments, such as those of Isla, who may have been attending for the first time.
    One often thinks that everything is quite clear and yet then one realises that it is in fact not always quite clear about what is happening,both as regards the beliefs of the worshippers as well as what is physically taking place before their eyes.
    I have chuckled before (certainly not cruelly !) at the description of 'doing the washing-up'

    I have heard visitors say that before.

    The rubrics ( that is the writing in red with the instructions) say :smile:
    When the distribution of Communion is over,the Priest or a Deacon or an acolyte purifies the paten over the chalice and also the chalice itself,saying quietly :

    'What has passed our lips as food,o Lord,
    may we possess in purity of heart,
    that what has been given to us in time may be our healing for eternity.'


    I am not sure if both Isla and I would understand the story of Jesus at the house of Martha and Mary in the same way. My understanding is that Jesus said to Martha that she should not fret over things which are not necessary to fret over.


    Presumably the extraordinary minister of Holy Communion as well as Isla herself and the staunch Catholic mother-in-law of her son had already listened to the Proclamation of the Gospel,just like Mary sitting at the feet of Jesus.


    Catholic teaching says,rightly or wrongly, that the Lord is present in the Proclamation of His Word,as also in the bread and wine of the Eucharist,as well as in the gathered assembly of the People of God.

    The Assembly together has certain things to do together including, for the woman with the cup, the liturgical cleansing of the sacred vessels. I am not sure what she could have done for those who were 'waiting to have a drink'


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