Sri Lanka church attacks

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Comments

  • The5thMary wrote: »
    When I heard about Notre Dame Cathedral and all the wailing and crying, I was completely unmoved. Whoop-de-doo, a BUILDING burned. Am I evil? No. I'm just tired of people putting much more importance on a structure and billionaires rushing forward to donate their money so a stupid building can rise from the ashes. Meanwhile, in other news, children are still being sold into sexual slavery and made into suicide bombers or being starved to death. La di da, oh well, someone else's problem.

    Do you really want everyone to have the same set of values?
  • The5thMary wrote: »
    When I heard about Notre Dame Cathedral and all the wailing and crying, I was completely unmoved. Whoop-de-doo, a BUILDING burned. Am I evil? No. I'm just tired of people putting much more importance on a structure and billionaires rushing forward to donate their money so a stupid building can rise from the ashes. Meanwhile, in other news, children are still being sold into sexual slavery and made into suicide bombers or being starved to death. La di da, oh well, someone else's problem.

    Do you really want everyone to have the same set of values?

    A sense of proportion ought to be universal. Should human life come before property or vice versa? Discuss.
  • sionisais wrote: »
    The5thMary wrote: »
    When I heard about Notre Dame Cathedral and all the wailing and crying, I was completely unmoved. Whoop-de-doo, a BUILDING burned. Am I evil? No. I'm just tired of people putting much more importance on a structure and billionaires rushing forward to donate their money so a stupid building can rise from the ashes. Meanwhile, in other news, children are still being sold into sexual slavery and made into suicide bombers or being starved to death. La di da, oh well, someone else's problem.

    Do you really want everyone to have the same set of values?

    A sense of proportion ought to be universal. Should human life come before property or vice versa? Discuss.

    But our values are subjective. I might say that the loss of my property is more immediately important to me than the deaths of people in a far away country. Notre Dame means more to me than the deaths of people in an act of terrorism in a country I know little about.

    As Mel Brooks said: "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
  • DooneDoone Shipmate
    5th Mary - thank you 🙏
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    This will be 'Islamist' terrorism on the soft underbelly of Western culture. My Muslim boss and colleagues will be aghast, being Westernized to various degrees, but they will feel wounded by the term Islamist. They always claim that such suicide-mass murderers are apostate and nothing to do with Islam and why don't we identify Christian terrorists? I nod and say I understand. Is there another term they would find acceptable?

    Instruments of Satan? A title appropriate to all who do evil acts such as this, however they try to justify it to themselves.
  • Meanwhile, drone operators holed up in a bunker in Nebraska don't seem to be regarded as "Christian terrorists". A little gander v goose observation.
  • Pots and kettles, too, perhaps....?

  • Martin, I poo-poohed your Islamist suggestion in my mind. I shall now acknowledge that you were right there also.
  • IS have form for claiming things that weren't done by them.

    Sure, they've also got form for atrocities like this, but I'd still wait for third-party verification.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    Raptor Eye wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    This will be 'Islamist' terrorism on the soft underbelly of Western culture. My Muslim boss and colleagues will be aghast, being Westernized to various degrees, but they will feel wounded by the term Islamist. They always claim that such suicide-mass murderers are apostate and nothing to do with Islam and why don't we identify Christian terrorists? I nod and say I understand. Is there another term they would find acceptable?

    Instruments of Satan? A title appropriate to all who do evil acts such as this, however they try to justify it to themselves.

    He gets a really bad press. This is IS. Was your acronym intended? The intel has been out there for three weeks.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Raptor Eye wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    This will be 'Islamist' terrorism on the soft underbelly of Western culture. My Muslim boss and colleagues will be aghast, being Westernized to various degrees, but they will feel wounded by the term Islamist. They always claim that such suicide-mass murderers are apostate and nothing to do with Islam and why don't we identify Christian terrorists? I nod and say I understand. Is there another term they would find acceptable?

    Instruments of Satan? A title appropriate to all who do evil acts such as this, however they try to justify it to themselves.

    He gets a really bad press. This is IS. Was your acronym intended? The intel has been out there for three weeks.

    Whether Satan, IS, Al-Quada or some little known home-grown outfit, it was still done by men acting out of self-deceit, as is always the case with evil.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    sionisais wrote: »
    Meanwhile, drone operators holed up in a bunker in Nebraska don't seem to be regarded as "Christian terrorists". A little gander v goose observation.

    Most probably nominally Christian or Christian cultural heritage counter-terrorists. Some could be Christianist I suppose. Crusaders.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    Today I caught a comment on the news that it was in response to the attacks on the two mosques in Christchurch - but I don't know how accurate that is.

    Jacinda Ardern, the NZ Prime Minister didn't think it was.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Notre Dame is part of Western secular culture and is familiar from many films and stories. ...
    Notre Dame is first and foremost a Roman Catholic cathedral, in which assorted religious services were (and, one hopes, will be again) observed in the course of every day. That it has become a part of Western culture in general is a positive, but it's secondary to its primary purpose.
    I feel something for its destruction that I do not feel for the death of hundreds of people in a part of the world I know very little about.
    I'm sorry for you if you can't feel the loss of fellow human beings, slaughtered in such horrible circumstances.
    That you are a Christian and they are Christian gives you a particular connection with them, but Christianity no longer binds people in the way it once did.
    There may well be a "particular connection," but I have also felt terrible pain for the sufferings of the Yazidis and other victims of Islamic State, regardless of background. We are all closely connected.


  • Martin54 wrote: »
    sionisais wrote: »
    Meanwhile, drone operators holed up in a bunker in Nebraska don't seem to be regarded as "Christian terrorists". A little gander v goose observation.

    Most probably nominally Christian or Christian cultural heritage counter-terrorists. Some could be Christianist I suppose. Crusaders.

    Just as the attackers in Sri Lanka were most probably nominally Muslim or Muslim cultural heritage. The track record of self-proclaimed Muslim attackers tends to point to them being less than devout as well as ignorant of their own claimed faith. Rather like, I suspect, the drone operators. But I'm sure the latter are ok because they're "just following orders".
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Notre Dame is a cultural treasure I agree. That said it may have been built and designed by humans but it is dedicated to God and Mary the mother of Jesus. It is a place of worship. It is also a representation of Paris. In many minds it is part of the Parisian mind. To the people of Paris it has special significance
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    sionisais wrote: »
    Meanwhile, drone operators holed up in a bunker in Nebraska don't seem to be regarded as "Christian terrorists". A little gander v goose observation.

    Most probably nominally Christian or Christian cultural heritage counter-terrorists. Some could be Christianist I suppose. Crusaders.

    Just as the attackers in Sri Lanka were most probably nominally Muslim or Muslim cultural heritage. The track record of self-proclaimed Muslim attackers tends to point to them being less than devout as well as ignorant of their own claimed faith. Rather like, I suspect, the drone operators. But I'm sure the latter are ok because they're "just following orders".

    That is true of most foot-soldiers. They have folk religion or - if irregular - are fundamentalist converts from criminality, higher education. The groomers are far more motivated by a sense of injustice that gets clothed in righteousness. IS are a direct product of unjustified, failed Western intervention in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria (both sectarian) and Libya. Thank God the Arab Spring failed in Egypt - as it has everywhere else. I'm amazed that there is so little terrorism.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    sionisais wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Raptor Eye wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    This will be 'Islamist' terrorism on the soft underbelly of Western culture. My Muslim boss and colleagues will be aghast, being Westernized to various degrees, but they will feel wounded by the term Islamist. They always claim that such suicide-mass murderers are apostate and nothing to do with Islam and why don't we identify Christian terrorists? I nod and say I understand. Is there another term they would find acceptable?

    Instruments of Satan? A title appropriate to all who do evil acts such as this, however they try to justify it to themselves.

    He gets a really bad press. This is IS. Was your acronym intended? The intel has been out there for three weeks.

    Whether Satan, IS, Al-Quada or some little known home-grown outfit, it was still done by men acting out of self-deceit, as is always the case with evil.

    Absolutely. It's far too sophisticated to be home-grown. 9 suicide bombers is a lot to recruit and manage, needing at least 4 officers on the ground. This was planned for months. What evil - real and imagined - drives such men - very mainly - to such evil?
  • Especially as - apparently - they came from good backgrounds and were well-educated. We're not dealing with desperate and marginalised urban poor here, it seems.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    9 suicide bombers is a lot to recruit and manage, needing at least 4 officers on the ground.
    That's weirdly specific.

  • Yes. @Martin54 , where do you get that information from? I take your point about 9 being a large number......
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Raptor Eye wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    This will be 'Islamist' terrorism on the soft underbelly of Western culture. My Muslim boss and colleagues will be aghast, being Westernized to various degrees, but they will feel wounded by the term Islamist. They always claim that such suicide-mass murderers are apostate and nothing to do with Islam and why don't we identify Christian terrorists? I nod and say I understand. Is there another term they would find acceptable?

    Instruments of Satan? A title appropriate to all who do evil acts such as this, however they try to justify it to themselves.

    He gets a really bad press. This is IS. Was your acronym intended? The intel has been out there for three weeks.

    Acronym intended. Satan deserves a bad press, being the father of lies his deception causes all manner of evil.

  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Yes. @Martin54 , where do you get that information from? I take your point about 9 being a large number......

    Cell structures.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Raptor Eye wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Raptor Eye wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    This will be 'Islamist' terrorism on the soft underbelly of Western culture. My Muslim boss and colleagues will be aghast, being Westernized to various degrees, but they will feel wounded by the term Islamist. They always claim that such suicide-mass murderers are apostate and nothing to do with Islam and why don't we identify Christian terrorists? I nod and say I understand. Is there another term they would find acceptable?

    Instruments of Satan? A title appropriate to all who do evil acts such as this, however they try to justify it to themselves.

    He gets a really bad press. This is IS. Was your acronym intended? The intel has been out there for three weeks.

    Acronym intended. Satan deserves a bad press, being the father of lies his deception causes all manner of evil.

    Yeah, but his lethality is nothing compared with God's.
  • Kyrie, eleison.

    Over 200 killed, plus 450+ wounded, in attacks on churches and hotels..but why both?

    They probably figured that way they would get both the local Christians and the foreign visitors.

    I don't understand how people can do this, either. I can only think that the suicide bombers AND their leaders have been filled with hatred and ignorance from the time they were little, or that they fell under the sway of some very evil people.

    I, too, would rather not know why people do this, although knowing why would probably make it easier to fight them.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited April 2019
    The pregnant wife of a Sri Lanka bomber detonated a suicide vest when police raided the affluent family's home in the wake of the terror attacks, killing her own children.
    I have no words.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Steve Chalke does.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Steve Chalke does.

    Serious question, Martin. Does he really? Or is it a book about exploring the issues etc? I'm looking for a good read on this current (though ancient) problem!
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    The Reluctant Fundamentalist is a novel about an ordinary individual's journey into extreme radicalism. But it was written in 2007 so it's a bit dated now.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Anselmina wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Steve Chalke does.

    Serious question, Martin. Does he really? Or is it a book about exploring the issues etc? I'm looking for a good read on this current (though ancient) problem!

    Look within Anselmina. The e-book extract. He identifies the fact that culturally we are missing the point. I read it 3 years ago and it scared me. I'll read it again. Reading the extract again scared me again just now. No he doesn't have the answers, but he does re-frame the questions better than anyone else, in the footsteps of Brian McLaren.

    In Sri Lanka ordinary decent Muslims are scared of Christian reprisal... what a travesty!

    I hear no other liberal, truly inclusive, humanist voices with any grass roots community backing. Do you?

    Only the church can lead in incarnationality. I fear that it can't. Even from the Oasis of Waterloo.
  • This is Steve's blurb about his book: https://tinyurl.com/yyzug2nn
  • Rublev wrote: »
    The Reluctant Fundamentalist is a novel about an ordinary individual's journey into extreme radicalism. But it was written in 2007 so it's a bit dated now.

    A Pilgrim's Progress was written over 300 years ago and still has much to commend it. I wouldn't write something off simply because it isn't bang up to date. A view from a few years ago can have its own virtues.
  • AuthorDiva wrote: »
    Kyrie, eleison.

    Over 200 killed, plus 450+ wounded, in attacks on churches and hotels..but why both?

    They probably figured that way they would get both the local Christians and the foreign visitors.

    I don't understand how people can do this, either. I can only think that the suicide bombers AND their leaders have been filled with hatred and ignorance from the time they were little, or that they fell under the sway of some very evil people.

    I, too, would rather not know why people do this, although knowing why would probably make it easier to fight them.

    Working out how those who are angry, bitter and filled with hate and evil can kill is easy compared to those who can do so without question in comfort and often in complete safety for a good living.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    It's a good living and in the absence of anyone leading in radical incarnationality it's easy to justify: From whence come wars and fightings among you? Lust. Instinct. Me and mine.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    sionisais wrote: »
    Rublev wrote: »
    The Reluctant Fundamentalist is a novel about an ordinary individual's journey into extreme radicalism. But it was written in 2007 so it's a bit dated now.

    A Pilgrim's Progress was written over 300 years ago and still has much to commend it. I wouldn't write something off simply because it isn't bang up to date. A view from a few years ago can have its own virtues.

    It's a first class book and a second rate film.
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