Anglican Church of North America
Hookers_Trick
8th Day Host, Admin Emeritus
I was intrigued to discover whilst reading the recent MW Report on Grace Church that if one clicks on the 'denomination' link it takes one to all reports for that denom, so I read all the reports filed for ACNA.
I was surprised to discover, for an ecclesial grouping that seems mainly to have come about over concerns of the Episcopal Church USA's 'regrettable' liberalism, what they mainly seem to share in common is heterophilia and over-head projectors.
And a quick nose around their website seems to indicate whilst the 1662 BCP is 'authorised' for use, their newly promulgated Pray Book 2019 is wholly in modern language -- including the unfortunate 'We believe' in the Credo that even the Roman Catholic Church restored to 'I'.
What's going on here? Are these Anglican versions of Con Evos? The preaching style in the reports seems very evangelical.
Discuss!
I was surprised to discover, for an ecclesial grouping that seems mainly to have come about over concerns of the Episcopal Church USA's 'regrettable' liberalism, what they mainly seem to share in common is heterophilia and over-head projectors.
And a quick nose around their website seems to indicate whilst the 1662 BCP is 'authorised' for use, their newly promulgated Pray Book 2019 is wholly in modern language -- including the unfortunate 'We believe' in the Credo that even the Roman Catholic Church restored to 'I'.
What's going on here? Are these Anglican versions of Con Evos? The preaching style in the reports seems very evangelical.
Discuss!
Comments
In the UK there are lots of churches called things like "Christ Church X Y Z" and their leaders describe themselves as 'Anglican Vicars' but they have nothing to do with the CoE although they are part of the Anglican Communion. They are very much Gospel Coalition types as far as I can tell. 'Grace' in a church name is often indicative of that.
This is probably a tangent, but my understanding is that while the singular "I believe" has been the liturgical tradition in Eastern Orthodoxy and in the Western Church (with the exception of translation of the ICET), the text of the creed as adopted by the Ecumenical Councils is the plural "We believe."
In the ordinary CofE I would reckon being 'all services 1662' and 'having overhead projectors' would be two non-intersecting circles on a Venn diagram.
Also con evo Anglican churches in evangelical dioceses tend to have a much stronger relationship with the church hierarchy. Evangelical bishops tend to have a close relationship with evangelical churches locally, certainly that's the case in my own evangelical diocese.
My observation of the Ordinariate, which is perhaps unfair but has been reasonably extensive, is that they aim to be liturgically both more Anglican than the Anglicans and more Roman than other Latin-Rite Catholics. Predictably, I actually rather like the resulting liturgies, but they do give the impression of trying quite hard to make an impression.
I see they have a parish here in Phoenix. Guess what will be happening soon?
BTW, the home page of the website of the Anglican Mission in America displays the following error message: "Incorrect slider name. Please make sure to use a valid slider slug." Rest assured, there is an infinite list of things that Miss Amanda would rather do than use an invalid slider slug.
Yes but there is at least this one in Sheffield which claims to be Anglican but not CofE. It may or may not be in the same grouping as the Newcastle one. It comes out of a CofE parish (Christ Church Fulwood) who are Conservative Evangelical but it seems to now be entirely independent.
Christ Church Central, Sheffield, certainly has some 'anglican' features - the 1662 BCP, the 39 Articles - without at the same time being part of the mainstream C of E.
Just spotted this. How better to deter peeps from your website/church than by ordering them to use a Valid Slider Slug?
I note, however, that Miss Amanda, as one might expect, is Not To Be Put Off.
Here in Detroit there's a real anomaly, though: Mariner's Church, which used to be part of my diocese but split off many years ago (over the ordination of women, I think). It now styles itself as an "independent Anglican Church." I wonder where they get episcopal oversight? I guess I don't wonder enough to have looked into it. But I think "independent Anglican" is an oxymoron for sure! IIRC, they use the '28 BCP.
Another visit to the ACNA website raises another conundrum. Their dioceses in some cases are huge and in almost all cases over-lapping. Is ACNA a confederation of extra-mural Anglicans? Several dioceses, for example, seem to overlap all over North Carolina.
And on liturgical matters: much of their web presence asserts the centrality of 1662, but I would be surprised to find any of them actually use it liturgically (it's hard enough to find in England!).
I even once shared a Prayer Book with Archbishop Simmons of the Anglican Church of the Americas at Mattins in Christ Church, Oxford. This was during the International Patristics Conference, at which exotic religious figures are known to abound. I did not then recognize him as the author a respectable book on Arnobius of Sicca, which I had in fact read.
Should. But the precedent of Donnie Robinson consecrating Dudley Foord was treated with lots of ooohs and aaahhhs and some hand-wringing, and that seems to be about the end of it.
As an aside, Robinson was not in a good way for quite a while before he died, his mind having gone badly. He had no idea that he was in a church, let alone there because it was Marie's funeral and he was wearing purple because he was an archbishop. A sad end. He was nearly as popular throughout the whole diocese as Harry Goodhew.
Your understanding is correct. However, this is only because the Symbol was originally written as a conciliar statement. All of the decrees of the councils are in the plural form: we decree, we anathematise, we believe, &c. They were statements of the gathered fathers of the councils.
It isn't necessarily a precedent for the liturgical use of the text.
I hadn't heard that, and while I was no fan of his, I would wish that on no person.
(Except maybe Deranged Donald and the imbecilic Feckless* Franklin barBilly).
*I would use a stronger alliterative adjective but this is Ecclesiantics and as a Hosty Person™ I'm supposed to set a good example of edifying discourse 😏 😇
ACNA in the Ottawa area is, as far as I can gather, stumbling along. To address a complicated departure dispute, they were allowed to buy an older downtown church (once S. George's but now SS Peter & Paul's), provided the signage relieved passersby of confusion. Another departing congregation uses a theatre on Sunday's and I am told is managing, while a suburban mission has filled a gap where the Anglican Diocese closed down a small congregation. I don't see them as expanding much, but I don't see them disappearing. They have an evangelical take on the BCP but use albs with stoles for most of their services, with an occasional cope thrown in.
I visited the Phoenix parish today. Report is up.
From the latter's website's FAQ page:
Incidentally, thanks are due to Miss Amanda for clarifying the difference between ACNA and AMIA. The 'Anglican' church in America seems almost as fissiparous as 19thC Nonconformity in the UK!
And, without wishing to be uncharitable (really!), does anyone else actually care?
We have several of these little 'Anglican' grouplets in Ukland, and some of them can only number their adherents on the fingers of one hand...whereupon, of course, their Archbishops etc. etc. assume ever more grandiloquent titles...
Someone I know described them as pimples on the bum of the Body of Christ.
FWIW, I got my info from here (pdf). The author of the document, Bishop Eric Menees of the Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin (an ACNA diocese) seems to connect Anglo-Catholics to Sacrament, Charismatics to the Spirit, and Evangelicals to Scripture.
The question is this ...
How does the 'Anglican' aspect play out in the US as it's 'Anglo' connections recede into the dim and distant? Two nations separated by a common language and so forth.
I can see how 'Episcopalian' can hold traction as it's descriptive of a particular ecclesiology, ie 'we have bishops and so aren't Presbyterian or Congregationalist'.
You don't have to be Anglican to be Episcopalian in polity.
Does the 'Anglican' angle - however defined - attract or repel?
The ACNA ordinand I met came from the buckle of the Bible-belt way down in Tennessee. He told me that his church was bulging at the seams with refugees from 'Bible Churches', megachurches and all manner of conservative evangelical or fundamentalist churches who wanted 'more' in terms of liturgy, structure, the church year, ceremony and a sense of mystery etc.
You could have all of that without it being 'Anglican' of course. Wouldn't some Lutherans in the US be able to offer something very similar?
I 'get' Anglican churches in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa and other former colonies like Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria etc - even if it's a form of Anglicanism that might look strange to UK Anglicans.
So it shouldn't be a puzzle to me to find an 'Anglican' emphasis in the US even after all this time since the original 13 States were among His Britannic Majestie's Dominions.
But does the 'Anglican' element consist of? The ACNA ordinand I met was a huge Anglophobe - in quite an old-fashioned way for one so young.
Is a certain studied 'Englishness' part of the equation? A Hollywood or Disney ersatz Mary Poppins thing? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
He was far from Anglophobic.
He seemed big on C S Lewis, Chesterton and the idea - contrary to the Bible Belt churches he described - that it was ok to enjoy a drink, a good meal or a fine cigar.
The AMIA is frequently known as "Anglicans Missing in Action."
For me, being a member of the worldwide Anglican Communion is important; it helps to set us apart from do-it-yourself church bodies. I value our British heritage, while also appreciating our homegrown aspects. (Well, most of them.)
Besides the Apostolic Succession (aka the Historic Episcopate), there's the liturgy. For me and my ilk, there's the Anglican musical tradition. My parish choir has sung at many British cathedrals (for me, the most spiritually important experience was at York Minster), and there is a definite sense of cultural connection.
They probably could, but the geography is off. Lutheranism is strongest in the Upper Midwest and Great Plains, which were centers of German and Scandinavian migration. Not nearly as many German or Scandinavian migrants settled in the South. In contrast, many early settlers of Virginia were Anglicans, including a number of Cavaliers fleeing the fallout from the (English) Civil War. Their descendants established Anglican/Episcopalian churches in the South. So when those "refugees" from evangelical Bible Belt churches go seeking "more", they are more likely to find an Anglican church to wander into.
Perhaps there is a Lutheran mission opportunity here.
Since I'm not Episcopalian, I don't know how much of that is present in Episcopalian/Anglican churches. British cultural products are fairly popular here, so I am not surprised if that appeals to some. Who doesn't like Downton Abbey? (At least the earlier seasons!)
On a deeper level, there are still historical and cultural resonances. We read about Scottish Enlightenment thinkers in school when we studied our Constitution; we did a whole year of British Literature in my high school English class. Even my MAGA-hat-wearing mother, after visiting England while accompanying my father on a business trip, told me that she felt strangely like she had "come home".
Having been raised in a fundamentalist church, I understand the sentiment. It's hard to describe how freeing it is to learn that there is a chance you won't go to Hell for being human, or even--gasp!--for having fun. Not all conservative evangelical churches are like that, of course. But some are.
Others obviously get your point, and because I generally enjoy reading your posts, I'd like to understand it too.
Could you rephrase / explain for me, please?