ThunderBunk, go fuck yourself.

135678

Comments

  • Ruth wrote: »
    Not men. Just you.

    Aren't you petty.
  • You are criticising women for voicing contrary opinions. It's not a good look.
  • Marvin the MartianMarvin the Martian Admin Emeritus
    KarlLB wrote: »
    No-one's saying it's inoffensive. However, it seems to be far less offensive than it is in the US.

    Indeed. Our American friends appear to be suggesting that on their side of the pond it carries the same level of offensiveness as "nigger". And while "cunt" is very much an offensive word that wouldn't be used in polite company in the UK - it is, after all, a swear word - it's not even close to being considered that bad.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    Not men. Just you.

    Aren't you petty.

    Nope, just pointed.
  • Do women ever call each other cunt in the UK or in other places where it isn't a really bad word? I know children who have told their parents to fuck off and that they're assholes. Would a child ever call a parent a cunt?
  • Yes, not all children, but some. Certainly the kids I've worked with will refer to their parents as cunts if they are annoyed with them. Not sure about calling them to their faces, but I've heard parents calling their children little cunt to their face and behind their backs.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    Not men. Just you.
    Is this one of those Private Randleman things?

  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    You are criticising women for voicing contrary opinions. It's not a good look.

    No that is not what I was doing but I can almost see how it could look that way. Maybe in this thread all the men need to shut up and just let the women handle it. Apparently it's okay for a man to say "I don't give a fuck how it makes you feel, I'll use whatever word I want" but not to say "This word really wounds this person, so even if it doesn't wound you, that doesn't make it inoffensive."
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    What mousethief said.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    edited June 2019
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Personally, I would like shipmates to consider how the words they use might be received by those with whom they’re communicating. Nothing more really. No Admin involvement, no “enforcement” other than a willingness to listen when someone raises an issue. ...
    That's really what I was asking, too. In the case of The Word In Question, I really do have a visceral reaction to it, and I really do have trouble getting back on track after encountering it.
    ... I think this happens most of the time already. But there are occasions when the response seems to veer into something along the lines of “well, there’s no need to find that offensive” or “you’re wrong to think that’s offensive.” I don’t think that sort of response is helpful. ...
    No, it's not. It's certainly not considerate.

    I trust that we can all agree that Huia is incredible.

    @RooK wrote
    Clearly the vast majority of participants on the Ship are generally polite in their expressions, and all this is point-scoring pedantry.
    Not on my part. I am, at this point, just sorry I stirred it.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    mousethief wrote: »
    ...Apparently it's okay for a man to say "I don't give a fuck how it makes you feel, I'll use whatever word I want" but not to say "This word really wounds this person, so even if it doesn't wound you, that doesn't make it inoffensive."
    I appreciate your sentiments on this, mousethief.

  • Thank you, @Rossweisse.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Apparently it's okay for a man to say "I don't give a fuck how it makes you feel, I'll use whatever word I want”
    I don’t think that’s the sentiment being expressed. After all, how much does the word in question really get used on the boards anyhow?

    Humour me, anyway. When you say, “If some people react negatively to a word, then the courteous thing to do is use some different word, and if one must use the word (say as in a direct quotation of somebody else's speech), it is courteous to censor it.”, what would your response be to people who react negatively to your frequent use of other swear words? This isn’t trying to catch you out - I’m just trying to understand what on the surface seems hypocritical.
  • @goperryrevs. The Ship has long been a place where swear words abound, and the f-bomb is as welcome here as any heretic or catechumen. Every now and then somebody breezes through who is opposed to swear words entirely and lectures us on ITTWACW. We have a few regulars who studiously refrain from using such words but have mostly acclimatized themselves to it.

    This hardly compares to this word that has elicited the response it has in a couple of our shipmates. The relative rarity of this word has not rendered it nearly innocuous as the f-word, and I believe makes the really quite polite requests that we refrain from using it -- it in particular -- stand out starkly, in contrast to blanket protests about naughty words in general.

    TLDR: The word in question is not a general part of the ship's vocabulary, it's not woven into the history and fiber of the deck and rigging and hull the way other epithets are. So a request to refrain from it is a different beast from general distaste for coarse language.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Some old-timers recall that according to Erin, you were the first person to ever use it on the Ship.
  • Curiosity killedCuriosity killed Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    But this whole furore started from a post that included the word you're all finding so offensive in a verbatim report, in quotation marks, not addressed to anyone, in Hell. It wasn't just dropped into conversation generally anywhere.
    mousethief wrote: »
    This hardly compares to this word that has elicited the response it has in a couple of our shipmates. The relative rarity of this word has not rendered it nearly innocuous as the f-word, and I believe makes the really quite polite requests that we refrain from using it -- it in particular -- stand out starkly, in contrast to blanket protests about naughty words in general.

    The whole point of this argument is that mileages do vary. In my world it is ubiquitous and almost as innocuous as other swear words, dropped into conversations. Those are the worlds of education of children who have fallen out of the school system, on the street around me and my daughter's world of heavy engineering. When working with challenging kids, picking up on their language comes a poor third after building a relationship and engaging them in education, meaning I am inured to most bad language not addressed directly at someone. I found your opening post offensive because some of the abusive words used are not common here and it was addressed to someone.

    Here there was a report on this morning's mainstream news saying someone had misspoken Jeremy Hunt's name again in a broadcast, one of the front-runners in the leadership contest. It is becoming an easy slip because that's what he's called in many circles. Seriously, if you don't believe me do the Twitter search suggested above.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Zacchaeus wrote: »
    Saying that "cunt" isn't all that offensive in the UK is a bit decontextualized. Who, when, where? In some contexts, it could get you in trouble, in others, it might be banter. But I use it very rarely.

    I have been looking at the posts that say it is not that offensive in the UK - It must be contextual - because in my part of the world it is see as very offensive and one of the worst swear words, much more offensive than the 'f' word.
    Zacchaeus wrote: »
    Saying that "cunt" isn't all that offensive in the UK is a bit decontextualized. Who, when, where? In some contexts, it could get you in trouble, in others, it might be banter. But I use it very rarely.

    I have been looking at the posts that say it is not that offensive in the UK - It must be contextual - because in my part of the world it is see as very offensive and one of the worst swear words, much more offensive than the 'f' word.
    But this whole furore started from a post that included the word you're all finding so offensive in a verbatim report, in quotation marks, not addressed to anyone, in Hell. It wasn't just dropped into conversation generally anywhere.
    mousethief wrote: »
    This hardly compares to this word that has elicited the response it has in a couple of our shipmates. The relative rarity of this word has not rendered it nearly innocuous as the f-word, and I believe makes the really quite polite requests that we refrain from using it -- it in particular -- stand out starkly, in contrast to blanket protests about naughty words in general.

    The whole point of this argument is that mileages do vary. In my world it is ubiquitous and almost as innocuous as other swear words, dropped into conversations. Those are the worlds of education of children who have fallen out of the school system, on the street around me and my daughter's world of heavy engineering. When working with challenging kids, picking up on their language comes a poor third after building a relationship and engaging them in education, meaning I am inured to most bad language not addressed directly at someone. I found your opening post offensive because some of the abusive words used are not common here and it was addressed to someone.

    Here there was a report on this morning's mainstream news saying someone had misspoken Jeremy Hunt's name again in a broadcast, one of the front-runners in the leadership contest. It is becoming an easy slip because that's what he's called in many circles. Seriously, if you don't believe me do the Twitter search suggested above.

    There's a whole Roger Mellie story based on that...
  • This one? - it's a link to a Viz screenshot, so may well be NSFW depending on work place.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    Once you're told a word isn't all that offensive, taking offense is optional. I'm not going to start dropping the word "cunt" into my everyday speech, but I'm not going to be offended when I see it used by a Brit on the Ship.

    I am. Regardless of the fact that it can mean the nastiest kind of person, and in truth I have used it on myself in that way, it is a sexual assault word; its use by a heterosexual male in public is a form of verbal sexual assault, actual intimidation.

    Oh no... the thread lasted long enough to summon Martin.

    Ok, I'll bite. Why do the men in question have to be heterosexual?

    It's more threatening.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    Once you're told a word isn't all that offensive, taking offense is optional. I'm not going to start dropping the word "cunt" into my everyday speech, but I'm not going to be offended when I see it used by a Brit on the Ship.

    I am. Regardless of the fact that it can mean the nastiest kind of person, and in truth I have used it on myself in that way, it is a sexual assault word; its use by a heterosexual male in public is a form of verbal sexual assault, actual intimidation.

    Oh no... the thread lasted long enough to summon Martin.

    Ok, I'll bite. Why do the men in question have to be heterosexual?

    It's more threatening.

    In what way? Are gay men weak and effeminate and incapable of being threatening?
  • TubbsTubbs Admin
    edited June 2019
    mousethief wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    You are criticising women for voicing contrary opinions. It's not a good look.

    No that is not what I was doing but I can almost see how it could look that way. Maybe in this thread all the men need to shut up and just let the women handle it. Apparently it's okay for a man to say "I don't give a fuck how it makes you feel, I'll use whatever word I want" but not to say "This word really wounds this person, so even if it doesn't wound you, that doesn't make it inoffensive."

    No one is saying the word isn’t offensive. Just disagreeing on how to best to deal with it’s use.

    With complete and utter credit to Doc Tor, let me present a scenario:

    Everyone on the Ship agrees certain words are unofficially out of bounds. Including that one.

    Those involved in this discussion are a small group of active, current shipmates. How do the proposers of this new convention want it shared with all current and future Shipmates? (Who may not agree or post first and read the FAQs later).

    At which point does someone entreat the H&As to change custom into law? After several attempts to tell some newbies they can't use that word in any circumstances resulting in multiple threads, a rash of Junior Hosting and some difficult conversations backstage. That’s when.

    While you are at liberty to ask people not to use particular words, there will be no extra, official sanctions on anyone who does. And, in absence of official sanctions, the Crew will take a dim view of anyone who decides to fill that gap.

    The Crew won’t be involving themselves in disputes over whether someone’s response to a cease and desist request is appropriate unless it breaches the 10 C’s either.

  • Eutychus wrote: »
    Some old-timers recall that according to Erin, you were the first person to ever use it on the Ship.

    I find this very hard to believe given how Erin tossed f-bombs around like rose petals.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    Once you're told a word isn't all that offensive, taking offense is optional. I'm not going to start dropping the word "cunt" into my everyday speech, but I'm not going to be offended when I see it used by a Brit on the Ship.

    I am. Regardless of the fact that it can mean the nastiest kind of person, and in truth I have used it on myself in that way, it is a sexual assault word; its use by a heterosexual male in public is a form of verbal sexual assault, actual intimidation.

    Oh no... the thread lasted long enough to summon Martin.

    Ok, I'll bite. Why do the men in question have to be heterosexual?

    It's more threatening.

    In what way? Are gay men weak and effeminate and incapable of being threatening?

    Sorry?
  • Marvin the MartianMarvin the Martian Admin Emeritus
    mousethief wrote: »
    @goperryrevs. The Ship has long been a place where swear words abound, and the f-bomb is as welcome here as any heretic or catechumen. Every now and then somebody breezes through who is opposed to swear words entirely and lectures us on ITTWACW. We have a few regulars who studiously refrain from using such words but have mostly acclimatized themselves to it.

    This hardly compares to this word that has elicited the response it has in a couple of our shipmates. The relative rarity of this word has not rendered it nearly innocuous as the f-word, and I believe makes the really quite polite requests that we refrain from using it -- it in particular -- stand out starkly, in contrast to blanket protests about naughty words in general.

    TLDR: The word in question is not a general part of the ship's vocabulary, it's not woven into the history and fiber of the deck and rigging and hull the way other epithets are. So a request to refrain from it is a different beast from general distaste for coarse language.

    So whether one should be courteous and refrain from using words that others say they find offensive depends on how often (and by how many people) said words have been used?
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    mousethief wrote: »
    @goperryrevs. The Ship has long been a place where swear words abound, and the f-bomb is as welcome here as any heretic or catechumen. Every now and then somebody breezes through who is opposed to swear words entirely and lectures us on ITTWACW. We have a few regulars who studiously refrain from using such words but have mostly acclimatized themselves to it.

    This hardly compares to this word that has elicited the response it has in a couple of our shipmates. The relative rarity of this word has not rendered it nearly innocuous as the f-word, and I believe makes the really quite polite requests that we refrain from using it -- it in particular -- stand out starkly, in contrast to blanket protests about naughty words in general.

    TLDR: The word in question is not a general part of the ship's vocabulary, it's not woven into the history and fiber of the deck and rigging and hull the way other epithets are. So a request to refrain from it is a different beast from general distaste for coarse language.

    So whether one should be courteous and refrain from using words that others say they find offensive depends on how often (and by how many people) said words have been used?

    A certain level of "swearing" is part of the culture here. When noobs complain about that they are told to suck it up. Use of the c-word is not part of the culture here. I'm amazed so many people are having such a hard time seeing the distinction. It's like everybody has come down with a total case of black-or-white thinking. Or the tu quoque death spiral is in the air.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    It's almost as if the leadership is being bloody fuckin' obtuse, eh Mousethief?
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Some old-timers recall that according to Erin, you were the first person to ever use it on the Ship.

    I find this very hard to believe given how Erin tossed f-bombs around like rose petals.

    The word in question began with c, not f.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    We now have a culture that defines which words can be used? Sounds scary.
  • quantpolequantpole Shipmate
    People who have been involved in editing wikipedia may recall the furore surrounding a certain British editor who was rather liberal in his use of swear words. There was a whole arbitration case pretty much about his use of the C-word. It really is amazing both how differently the word was used either side of the pond, but also the differences in swearing in general. It appears to be far more common in the UK, and is also used in more varied contexts.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    @goperryrevs. The Ship has long been a place where swear words abound, and the f-bomb is as welcome here as any heretic or catechumen. Every now and then somebody breezes through who is opposed to swear words entirely and lectures us on ITTWACW. We have a few regulars who studiously refrain from using such words but have mostly acclimatized themselves to it.

    This hardly compares to this word that has elicited the response it has in a couple of our shipmates. The relative rarity of this word has not rendered it nearly innocuous as the f-word, and I believe makes the really quite polite requests that we refrain from using it -- it in particular -- stand out starkly, in contrast to blanket protests about naughty words in general.

    TLDR: The word in question is not a general part of the ship's vocabulary, it's not woven into the history and fiber of the deck and rigging and hull the way other epithets are. So a request to refrain from it is a different beast from general distaste for coarse language.

    Thanks MT.

    Ok, so this is how it looks to me. Offence/offensiveness is this massive spectrum with hyper-sensitive people at one end and don’t-give-a-shits at the other end. Like everyone, you occupy a space within that.

    The bit I struggle with is your apparent certainty that where you sit in that spectrum is exactly the right place to be, and anyone not in that space is wrong. Someone who is in one direction further is beyond the pale and an asshole for having the temerity of defending the use of the c-word, and someone in the other direction is a noob who can be fairly readily dismissed and told to suck it up and get with the culture here.

    The point of “don’t easily offend, don’t be easily offended” is that it does its best to make all those different people get along. But the point isn’t that there is a correct point to be in that spectrum, and that you, Mousethief, have discovered that place and can look down on anyone who occupies a different place on it.

    I’d also note that your response to being challenged is pretty much the equivalent of a lot of UK posters: “that’s just the way it is here.” As an appeal to some moral stance on offence, it’s not really enough. But it’s natural. If it’s not good enough for UK posters to say “we hear that word all the time, that’s just the way it is here.*”, why is it good enough for you to say, “people swear on the Ship all the time, that’s just the way it is here.”?

    I’m not so convinced that there is some objectively accepted cultural stance on swearing here on the Ship. Maybe you’re lucky that for where you fall in the spectrum the Ship is generally in the Goldilocks zone. For me, although I occasionally use swear words, I don’t think I’d ever use any as an attack on a person. I wouldn’t call anyone a ******* or a **** or a **** *******. It’s way too aggressive for me. I struggle to see it so much here in Hell (your OP being a shining example of it). But I’ve learned to accept it here. I also see a big difference between using words aggressively and quoting them, which is why Karl’s original post was pretty innocuous to me compared to your OP, which I genuinely found much more offensive. I do think it’s sad that people from church backgrounds where they’re not used to a culture that has swearing at all are put off the Ship, and although it’s Not A Christian Website, it’s a shame that people probably don’t stick around because it’s too much for them.

    TLDR: we’re all different, and should do our best to accommodate each other. There’s no objective ‘correct’ stance on swearing, and we should be mindful of that.

    * Ironically, today in an office environment, someone used the word in question to me casually in conversation, which made me inwardly smirk and think of this thread.
  • Just to note, when I say I didn’t find Karl’s post offensive, I mean I didn’t find his use of language offensive. I was upset on his behalf, because the insult was aimed at him, but he was merely quoting what was shouted at him.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    I don't think swearing is the only issue. I think the use of the term in question as an insult is an example of the objectification of women. In a patriarchal society, that is much worse than calling someone a "prick".
  • Maybe in the US and Canada, but I’m not convinced that’s the case in at least parts of the UK. Hence the very different reactions depending on where people come from. Here; prick, twat, dick, c***, etc: pohtato potahto. Especially in Glasgow.
  • My take is that using the C word is to give a dignity to the person/ thing they don't deserve - or as an old mate would say, "No, they're not a 'C', a 'C' is useful."

    As in Jeremy Cu - Hunt?
  • agingjbagingjb Shipmate
    I don't use taboo words in writing, but then I'm old fashioned.

    Why? I find their use to lack charity - cue sounding brass and tickling cymbals.

    Then again, when I think Christian (dangerous here with perpetual threat of ITTWACWS), I do try to post conscious of the presence of the Holy Spirit - which is hard.

    As, I am sure many others do, in their own way; but I prepare my flounce.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    FWIW the term I find most offensive for female genitalia is ‘gash’ and the term I find most unpleasant is ‘piss flaps’

    I dislike people swearing at me in anger, though how seriously I take it depends on social and relational context, tone of voice and what I know about the mental state of the speaker. But all things being equal, same contexts, tone of voice, mental state etc ‘stupid cow/bitch/cunt’ feel much the same to me - but cunt is at least not also comparing me to an animal.

    I think the way some men refer to women that I find most offensive - that I’ve really only encountered as reported speech - is in the form ‘look at the state of that’ or ‘I wouldn’t fuck it’. Because it is so objectifying and dehumanising. (Or possibly - though I’ve only seen this in fiction - ‘do that and I’ll fucking spay you’.)

    What I find oddest, and I have only heard someone do this once, is when people use cunt as adjective or adverb - as in ‘you can’t be cunting well serious’ or ‘that was a cunty thing to do’. (A female professional colleague in a work meeting describing something they were unhappy about.)
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    What is also fun to consider is how the connotations of vulgarities aren't exactly taught in a formal manner.

    When I was a youngster and encountered cunts for the first time, I was lead to understand that they were a variant of pussy, twat, and vagina. Which made stochastic sense considering the dicks, pricks, wangs, and cocks I had also encountered. In my naive estimation, I probably assumed that they were all approximately equal in valency ("naughty"), thanks to the black-and-white reasoning of ignorance. I do recall eventually figuring out that pussy had a certain cowardly tilt to it, vagina was awkwardly correct, cunt was strongly disliked, and twat was just funny. These variations never made a lot of sense to me, as all the dicks, pricks, wangs, and cocks were all just same sort of thoughtlessness.

    It was an embarrassingly long time later that I came to realize how fundamentally sexist that difference was. So I don't like using it. Partially because I simply don't think there's anything about being female that can be remotely construed as insulting - and therefore of no snarky value. But also because I'm an adult living in 2019 and I should fucking know better.

    So, I don't really use the word cunt much. Or nigger. Or retard. But that isn't to say that they don't have their uses. I used one them above to describe one facet of how we might experience words in a non-standardized way - and I hope that usage was more amusing than upsetting.

    Can we move the fuck on now?
  • TubbsTubbs Admin
    edited June 2019
    Caissa wrote: »
    It's almost as if the leadership is being bloody fuckin' obtuse, eh Mousethief?

    Yes, that’s obviously why. None of the Ship’s management, or any of the other contributors to this thread, have first-hand experience of sexism.

    Please, male posters, tell us again what the problem is and how it needs to be fixed. And, when we disagree, there’s no need to listen to us or acknowledge our right to hold a different POV. Just tell us again. And again. We’re bound to agree with you eventually.

    The Admins have said several times that the Crew will not be wandering around the boards armed with The Big Book of Swears and Other Naughty Words, telling people off when they use one. You’re all adults. You decide what words you want to use. If someone else doesn't like them, they can have a quiet word. You sort things out between yourselves.

    But, as you seem to be struggling to understand, would it help if one of the Male Crew members said it instead of me or @Ruth?
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Stochastic? As in apparently random, arbitrary?
  • The bit I struggle with is your apparent certainty that where you sit in that spectrum is exactly the right place to be, and anyone not in that space is wrong.

    Stop making it about me. It's not about me it's about those women who have expressed offense at the word. But if you make it about me, then you don't have to deal with them, do you?
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Eutychus wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Some old-timers recall that according to Erin, you were the first person to ever use it on the Ship.

    I find this very hard to believe given how Erin tossed f-bombs around like rose petals.

    The word in question began with c, not f.

    Oh you mean I have seen the error of my ways and changed my mind? How dare I. Fuck you and your tu quoque. You're not trying to advance the conversation, just score cheap points. Shove it up your ass, Eutychus.
  • goperryrevsgoperryrevs Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    mousethief wrote: »
    Stop making it about me. It's not about me it's about those women who have expressed offense at the word. But if you make it about me, then you don't have to deal with them, do you?

    Those women have been a lot more reasonable than you have, and by starting this thread, you made it about you. And there are other women (hi, @Tubbs and @Ruth and @Curiositykilled etc.) with their own perspectives too.
  • by starting this thread, you made it about you.
    Or at least, the way you started it.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    Doing a quick search through Ye Olde Shippe™ (Hell and Limbo) I found a couple dozen instances of the c word. They were mostly directed at UK politicians, and in most of those cases the use of this word went unchallenged. There have been reactions when someone called another Shipmate the c word directly.
  • by starting this thread, you made it about you.
    Or at least, the way you started it.

    What makes it about me is people like you continuing to say it's about me instead of actually engaging with the people who matter. Tiresome.
  • What's tiresome is your avoidance of actually engaging with Ruth and Tubbs and CK, except to call them names.

    You've already been called on that several times, and it's just getting embarrassing in its obviousness.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    My favourite was in 2013 quetzalcoatl calling mousethief a 'cunt-brain', who then hurled insults back at him in what I think was a joking exchange. No-one objected to the c word, definitely not mousethief.

    I don't have a strong opinion either way about the use of the c word on the Ship. But we all know how bad the archive and search functions were on YOS™. The fact that I found around 30 instances quickly rather weakens the argument "the word is alien to the Ship's culture".
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    It occurs to me that mousethief is in an unenviable position.

    At first blush, it appears to be an egregious case of White Knighting. Which was only mildly irritating, until he started snapping at various women with opinions he deemed to be incorrect. So, awkwardness there.

    BUT, and this is the tricky part, the people with the most responsibility for addressing disparities of privilege are the members of the privileged type. The banal ability to decide whether or not to participate in topics about changing sexism is a huge (yuuuuge) piece of male privilege. To consistently decide to be involved for improvement is commendable, technically. I'm a wee bit proud of our rodent-stealing comrade. Despite, you know [gesticulates up-thread], stuff.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    by starting this thread, you made it about you.
    Or at least, the way you started it.

    What makes it about me is people like you continuing to say it's about me instead of actually engaging with the people who matter. Tiresome.
    You really are a f***ing c***, aren't you?
  • mousethief wrote: »
    by starting this thread, you made it about you.
    Or at least, the way you started it.

    What makes it about me is people like you continuing to say it's about me instead of actually engaging with the people who matter. Tiresome.
    You really are a f***ing c***, aren't you?

    And again you are trying to make it about me. You too are a tiresome bore.
This discussion has been closed.