Though, he's a Tory. He doesn't see the need to justify treating the poor like shit. He just unquestioningly believes that the poor exist just so "people" like him can treat them like shit.
Hmm, most of them have a vestige of a conscience which they have to placate in some way.
Though, he's a Tory. He doesn't see the need to justify treating the poor like shit. He just unquestioningly believes that the poor exist just so "people" like him can treat them like shit.
I've heard somewhere within the last few days that Cummings isn't actually a member of the Conservative Party. He's just employed as an adviser and gofer. It looks as though that includes doing his boss's dirty work, and being somebody that those who want to find excuses for his boss can blame as an evil counsellor.
Conscience, humanity, integrity, concern for other humans, or even any minimal niceness etc doesn't though appear to have much, if any, part in his personality.
Though, he's a Tory. He doesn't see the need to justify treating the poor like shit. He just unquestioningly believes that the poor exist just so "people" like him can treat them like shit.
Hmm, most of them have a vestige of a conscience which they have to placate in some way.
[citation needed]
That was brilliantly funny, but can we keep a sense of perspective here? I'm a long way from being a Tory, but I know many who are decent, caring, principled individuals. Demonising folk who disagree with us doesn't really help the situation.
I'm a long way from being a Tory, but I know many who are decent, caring, principled individuals. Demonising folk who disagree with us doesn't really help the situation.
Decent, caring, principled individuals who voted for the bedroom tax, austerity, the Hostile Environment, tax cuts for the rich, fracking, fewer nurses, police officers, selling public assets, and now a known liar and serial cheat for PM. I'm sure the cognitive dissonance they feel is painful, and my heart bleeds for them, but those of us who didn't vote for this bunch of charlatans nor the clusterfuck they've unilaterally imposed on the country rather hope they'll rediscover some semblance of their humanity when we have an election in about six weeks time.
Boris has said that if any Tory rebels vote to block a no deal Brexit he will effectively sack them by not allowing them to be reselected for their constituency. More dictator type actions
In a stopped-clock kind of way, I'm not sure he's wrong. One of the many factors in the current deadlock is Tory MPs who will vote against their government's principal policy but not vote to replace the government.
Boris has said that if any Tory rebels vote to block a no deal Brexit he will effectively sack them by not allowing them to be reselected for their constituency. More dictator type actions
In a stopped-clock kind of way, I'm not sure he's wrong. One of the many factors in the current deadlock is Tory MPs who will vote against their government's principal policy but not vote to replace the government.
Like Piffle and Mogg and others did against May? Hypocrites the bunch of them, and Bevan's comment about Tories being lower than vermin seems too generous by far.
I'm a long way from being a Tory, but I know many who are decent, caring, principled individuals. Demonising folk who disagree with us doesn't really help the situation.
Decent, caring, principled individuals who voted for the bedroom tax, austerity, the Hostile Environment, tax cuts for the rich, fracking, fewer nurses, police officers, selling public assets, and now a known liar and serial cheat for PM. I'm sure the cognitive dissonance they feel is painful, and my heart bleeds for them, but those of us who didn't vote for this bunch of charlatans nor the clusterfuck they've unilaterally imposed on the country rather hope they'll rediscover some semblance of their humanity when we have an election in about six weeks time.
Assuming it's in any way real, I'm reminded of this- which is doubly ironic given the voting record of her husband - I think there are a fair few Tories like this, who have no idea of the state of the public realm and/or have a kind of vague 'I'd speak to the manager' notion that if someone needed help they'd be able to get it. Whether they are decent or caring I couldn't tell - but they are a danger to much of the rest of society.
It sounds like a wind-up, "astonished to learn that there are poor people, who struggle to get benefits. I thought they all loll in bed watching Sky, smoking and drinking".
That was brilliantly funny, but can we keep a sense of perspective here? I'm a long way from being a Tory, but I know many who are decent, caring, principled individuals. Demonising folk who disagree with us doesn't really help the situation.
This is a good point. I try very hard not to demonise people with whom I disagree. I do not always succeed. However, let's look at this stepwise - and I am referring here to Conservative MPs who are either ardent or - for party/career reasons - reluctant but willing supporters of No Deal:
I do not believe that there are any MPs who do not really know the consequences of No Deal. If they really do not then they are guilty of dereliction of duty. Yellowhammer is not a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention. If you speak to anyone with any knowledge of trans-national trade in Europe then Yellowhammer was anything but news. MPs must have had this information for a long time.
So what is the correct way to describe a Member of Parliament who is willing to risk the health and wellbeing of our society and especially the most-vulnerable for either idiological or party or career reasons?
This is a question of the actions of MPs - they are behaving in a totally irresponsible and careless way. This is not demonstrating any empathy or even a sense of justice for those who will suffer as a consequence.
How should I describe such MPs? (I know that they're not all Tories but still). I haven't even got into all the evils (and yes, I mean that word) of Austerity over the past decade.
Though, he's a Tory. He doesn't see the need to justify treating the poor like shit. He just unquestioningly believes that the poor exist just so "people" like him can treat them like shit.
Hmm, most of them have a vestige of a conscience which they have to placate in some way.
[citation needed]
That was brilliantly funny, but can we keep a sense of perspective here? I'm a long way from being a Tory, but I know many who are decent, caring, principled individuals. Demonising folk who disagree with us doesn't really help the situation.
Though, it's looking like ABdPJ is all set to start expelling the decent, caring, principled individuals from the party, starting with those MPs who are willing to put country first and do all they can to resist leaving the EU without a deal.
For a long time I have wished that MPs could be compelled to spend some months (while Parliament is in recess? ) living on Universal Credit. I would do it as a straight "Wife Swap" style swop with one of their constituents. So any concerns about "a drain on the public purse" would be irrelevant : the Universal Credit claimant lives on the MP's salary, the MP on UC. Then we could see how they do at living on it or getting a job. No "don't you know who I am" or old boy network cheating to get the UC claimant a job, just give him the other guys CV and address book and tell him to get on with it. Call it public education.
So Boris wants to expel those MPs who intend to do what he did? Is that right?
Yep.
I refuse to get hopeful but there is increasing evidence that this is going to backfire. He was meant to meet 21 potential rebels today who were asking for evidence of what he was doing to make a deal. He cancelled the meeting.
What I can't remember is whether he can do this. The local constituency parties have the power to choose their candidates not central office, but presumably their is a veto?
Though, he's a Tory. He doesn't see the need to justify treating the poor like shit. He just unquestioningly believes that the poor exist just so "people" like him can treat them like shit.
Hmm, most of them have a vestige of a conscience which they have to placate in some way.
[citation needed]
That was brilliantly funny, but can we keep a sense of perspective here? I'm a long way from being a Tory, but I know many who are decent, caring, principled individuals. Demonising folk who disagree with us doesn't really help the situation.
I do not believe that there are any MPs who do not really know the consequences of No Deal. If they really do not then they are guilty of dereliction of duty.
Stephen Barclay, Secretary of State for Departure from the European Union, was just a few days ago tweeting that we need to start talks now to keep just in time imports and exports for the car industry running smoothly in the event of No Deal.
So Boris wants to expel those MPs who intend to do what he did? Is that right?
Yep.
I refuse to get hopeful but there is increasing evidence that this is going to backfire. He was meant to meet 21 potential rebels today who were asking for evidence of what he was doing to make a deal. He cancelled the meeting.
What I can't remember is whether he can do this. The local constituency parties have the power to choose their candidates not central office, but presumably their is a veto?
AFZ
I don't think there's anything stopping him from withdrawing the whip from any unruly MPs. But, then they'd still be MPs but just sit as independents ... and, what's then to stop them voting however they like? While ABdPJ will have lost his majority of one.
I also don't know what powers the local party has to select their candidates. But, presumably putting forward someone who, if elected, wouldn't be given the whip and so sit as an independent would put a certain amount of pressure to select someone else who would sit as a Conservative.
However, he will probably win an election, or am I being gloomy?
Blair has warned about the "elephant trap" of an early election. Given he's been wrong about everything since he left office, this gives me hope that Johnson might lose.
He's actively driving a wedge into the Tory Party, whether he sacks MPs and actively discourages local associations to select them, or simply creates a "hostile environment" for the more reasonable Tory MPs in the hope that they'll chose not too stand for the Tories again. How many seats become vulnerable if the standing Tory MP finds themselves unable to stand and they don't support the new Tory candidate - or even stand themselves as an independent? In those circumstances several local activists may decide that they're not going to campaign for the official candidate, and the voters will see right through it and some desert the Tories for another party or stay at home. The more he seeks to divide the party rather than bring the party together the worse his chances come the election.
Is it possible that if the Tories who get de-selected stand as Independents, that might split the Tory vote and open the doors to Farage's Brexit Company Limited?
And if Farage's shower aren't a proper political party, can they legitimately stand anyway?
For those that might remember, Farage said that his 'party' would produce a manifesto and some policies after the EU elections. As far as I've been able to trace, he still hasn't done so. If there is an election here, he's already appointed quite a lot of potential candidates.
Apparently, since June you have been able to apply to be a candidate in any forthcoming UK election. To be considered, you have to send him a non-returnable £100 deposit. There have been complaints from people who say they sent in the £100 and have heard no more. This comes from this man's research.
Is it possible that if the Tories who get de-selected stand as Independents, that might split the Tory vote and open the doors to Farage's Brexit Company Limited?
And if Farage's shower aren't a proper political party, can they legitimately stand anyway?
PM. I will not hand over power to Corbyn.
Hammond: we are handing over power to parliament.
PM. You are handing over power to a junta that includes Corbyn.
It's the use of "junta" that's amazing, as this normally describes the taking of power by force. Boris is a journalist, and his language is inexact and bombastic.
Don't forget that his predecessor, Queen Margaret (Thatcher), took us to war against an unspeakable Junta (the one in Argentina, back in 1982)...
Is Piffleglum going to mobilise the Forces against Corbyn? That'll be interesting, especially if the call to arms comes on a Friday afternoon.
(IIRC, according to the Asterix books, the Romans only managed to conquer Britain, because the British had packed up for the weekend at around 4pm on Friday... )
So, if tomorrow's bill is passed that probably prevents No Deal. It looks well written. Johnson has arranged for a new Queen's Speech and he does not now have a majority to get that through - so, assuming he wins his legal cases and this all goes ahead an election is almost certain.
I am sad that he'll probably manage to avoid breaking the record for the shortest time serving as Prime Minister but the only thing I really care about at this precise moment is avoiding No Deal. There's a helluva lot that we need to fix but that's numbers 1, 2 and 3 on the list.
I know that having Mr Johnson in number 10 is enraging to many - most? - people but that shouldn't mean that one supports, never mind applauds, the current shennanigans in Parliament and the attempt to prolong the Br**it torture ad infinitum, because that is what will happen.
These are dangerous times. If the LibDem-anyone else alliance manages, with the connivance of the Speaker, to wrest control of the order paper from the government, and then use that to override the Act that was passed in January 2017, then a large swathe of the electorate is going to draw the lesson that prolonged demonstration and agitation is the best way to get what one wants, while the other, larger swathe, will learn that MPs only see fit to obey Acts of Parliament when it suits them. That is dangerous.
Those who seek to have the UK remain in the EU may well rejoice, but they are laying the foundations of the collapse of respect for Parliament and the Acts that it passes.
Those who seek to have the UK remain in the EU may well rejoice, but they are laying the foundations of the collapse of respect for Parliament and the Acts that it passes.
I think the blame for that can be laid squarely at the feet of those who pledged to hold such a poorly-thought out referendum on this topic in the first place, for purely party political ends.
Those who seek to have the UK remain in the EU may well rejoice, but they are laying the foundations of the collapse of respect for Parliament and the Acts that it passes.
I think the blame for that can be laid squarely at the feet of those who pledged to hold such a poorly-thought out referendum on this topic in the first place, for purely party political ends.
Comments
Internet win for today
Conscience, humanity, integrity, concern for other humans, or even any minimal niceness etc doesn't though appear to have much, if any, part in his personality.
That was brilliantly funny, but can we keep a sense of perspective here? I'm a long way from being a Tory, but I know many who are decent, caring, principled individuals. Demonising folk who disagree with us doesn't really help the situation.
Some of us are, I guess, pinning slight hopes on those MPs of his own party who do not wholly support Johnson.
Would that there were more of them...
Decent, caring, principled individuals who voted for the bedroom tax, austerity, the Hostile Environment, tax cuts for the rich, fracking, fewer nurses, police officers, selling public assets, and now a known liar and serial cheat for PM. I'm sure the cognitive dissonance they feel is painful, and my heart bleeds for them, but those of us who didn't vote for this bunch of charlatans nor the clusterfuck they've unilaterally imposed on the country rather hope they'll rediscover some semblance of their humanity when we have an election in about six weeks time.
In a stopped-clock kind of way, I'm not sure he's wrong. One of the many factors in the current deadlock is Tory MPs who will vote against their government's principal policy but not vote to replace the government.
Like Piffle and Mogg and others did against May? Hypocrites the bunch of them, and Bevan's comment about Tories being lower than vermin seems too generous by far.
Assuming it's in any way real, I'm reminded of this- which is doubly ironic given the voting record of her husband - I think there are a fair few Tories like this, who have no idea of the state of the public realm and/or have a kind of vague 'I'd speak to the manager' notion that if someone needed help they'd be able to get it. Whether they are decent or caring I couldn't tell - but they are a danger to much of the rest of society.
This is a good point. I try very hard not to demonise people with whom I disagree. I do not always succeed. However, let's look at this stepwise - and I am referring here to Conservative MPs who are either ardent or - for party/career reasons - reluctant but willing supporters of No Deal:
I do not believe that there are any MPs who do not really know the consequences of No Deal. If they really do not then they are guilty of dereliction of duty. Yellowhammer is not a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention. If you speak to anyone with any knowledge of trans-national trade in Europe then Yellowhammer was anything but news. MPs must have had this information for a long time.
So what is the correct way to describe a Member of Parliament who is willing to risk the health and wellbeing of our society and especially the most-vulnerable for either idiological or party or career reasons?
This is a question of the actions of MPs - they are behaving in a totally irresponsible and careless way. This is not demonstrating any empathy or even a sense of justice for those who will suffer as a consequence.
How should I describe such MPs? (I know that they're not all Tories but still). I haven't even got into all the evils (and yes, I mean that word) of Austerity over the past decade.
AFZ
Yep.
I refuse to get hopeful but there is increasing evidence that this is going to backfire. He was meant to meet 21 potential rebels today who were asking for evidence of what he was doing to make a deal. He cancelled the meeting.
What I can't remember is whether he can do this. The local constituency parties have the power to choose their candidates not central office, but presumably their is a veto?
AFZ
What were you saying about demonising folk?
Polls are all over the place. No idea.
AFZ
Of course in 20 years time they'll be doing their own version of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3fP15F6szA
[link contains truly dark German satire]
I also don't know what powers the local party has to select their candidates. But, presumably putting forward someone who, if elected, wouldn't be given the whip and so sit as an independent would put a certain amount of pressure to select someone else who would sit as a Conservative.
Blair has warned about the "elephant trap" of an early election. Given he's been wrong about everything since he left office, this gives me hope that Johnson might lose.
https://bbc.co.uk/news
And if Farage's shower aren't a proper political party, can they legitimately stand anyway?
Apparently, since June you have been able to apply to be a candidate in any forthcoming UK election. To be considered, you have to send him a non-returnable £100 deposit. There have been complaints from people who say they sent in the £100 and have heard no more. This comes from this man's research.
Good question. 🤔🤔
It smacks of the apocryphal magazine ad, 'How to raise $1 million? Send $1 to.....'
I thought that, once upon a time, people of unsound mind were also excluded. That, clearly, is no longer the case.
PM. I will not hand over power to Corbyn.
Hammond: we are handing over power to parliament.
PM. You are handing over power to a junta that includes Corbyn.
It's the use of "junta" that's amazing, as this normally describes the taking of power by force. Boris is a journalist, and his language is inexact and bombastic.
It can be found at Jason Groves Twitter.
Is Piffleglum going to mobilise the Forces against Corbyn? That'll be interesting, especially if the call to arms comes on a Friday afternoon.
(IIRC, according to the Asterix books, the Romans only managed to conquer Britain, because the British had packed up for the weekend at around 4pm on Friday...
Interesting times, indeed.
I am sad that he'll probably manage to avoid breaking the record for the shortest time serving as Prime Minister but the only thing I really care about at this precise moment is avoiding No Deal. There's a helluva lot that we need to fix but that's numbers 1, 2 and 3 on the list.
AFZ
19th November. If No Deal is averted, this is next on my wishlist. And logic dictates that one makes the other more likely.
AFZ
These are dangerous times. If the LibDem-anyone else alliance manages, with the connivance of the Speaker, to wrest control of the order paper from the government, and then use that to override the Act that was passed in January 2017, then a large swathe of the electorate is going to draw the lesson that prolonged demonstration and agitation is the best way to get what one wants, while the other, larger swathe, will learn that MPs only see fit to obey Acts of Parliament when it suits them. That is dangerous.
Those who seek to have the UK remain in the EU may well rejoice, but they are laying the foundations of the collapse of respect for Parliament and the Acts that it passes.
I think the blame for that can be laid squarely at the feet of those who pledged to hold such a poorly-thought out referendum on this topic in the first place, for purely party political ends.
He. David Cameron. The political Leopold Alcox https://g.co/kgs/oq696p
As for restoring it, I think a General Election is the way forward, Brexit or no Brexit.