Liturgical colours

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Comments

  • As I discern my calling to the priesthood I’ve learned I can’t be unbending in my ACness, but no vestments is just beyond the pale. That’s a church that has totally conformed to the world, in my estimation.
  • john holdingjohn holding Ecclesiantics Host, Mystery Worshipper Host
    Just remember that vestment-less eucharists are not uncommon in England, or so one reads (yeah even here on the Ship) and in some streams of the CofE are almost the norm.
  • Just remember that vestment-less eucharists are not uncommon in England, or so one reads (yeah even here on the Ship) and in some streams of the CofE are almost the norm.

    One cannot be silent in the face of horror.
  • As much as I love Anglicanism, sometimes it’s a bit too broad of a tent.
  • Perhaps this thread needs resurrecting: Decently habited, or clothes make the cleric.

    Meanwhile, I'm still trying to get my head around the idea of a hunter's camouflage stole. :open_mouth:

  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Perhaps @ECraigR the priest you were complaining about was not celebrating in civvies but in a set of total camouflage vestments? 😝
  • @ECraigR this particular visitor felt as if they had come to a private club event-- careful observation was necessary to figure out who was the celebrant

    I can well imagine that! And therein is the risk we take in relaxing the standard/expected vesture and ritual. We may mean well, as I assume that priest did, perhaps trying to create greater closeness with her people. But there are, I think better ways to do that which would not confuse a visitor or even a long term parishioner. IMHO it brought more attention to her than if she'd vested simply.

    In some ways it is the reverse of my current situation. I do fill in work for parishes without settled clergy. My liturgical preference is AC, full vestments, genuflections, kissing of the altar, etc. Not many parishes in this diocese wanting that! It is incumbant on me to first ask what their "usual" is, or was when they last had settled clergy, and then to follow that as best I can. They come to church to worship and be fed and not be stymied by what the heck the priest is fussing about. And therein for me is the reminder that we come to serve, and not be the center of attention, whether it is by AC fuss or going vestmentless.

  • @Enoch Egads! I think you’re right! Although the purpose of doing so eludes me.

    @BabyWombat You make some really good points and well-founded observations. I just can understand not putting priests on pedestals, although my natural inclination is to do so, but totally agree that going vestmentless is a step too far. Of course, at my last parish calling my priest by her first name felt too far for me as well, but I got over it.

    Had I gone I probably would have tried making some polite conversation in the hopes of learning why she made the decision to go without vestments, but unfortunately my friend didn’t, so it’s all just airy speculation.
  • When I was at university 15 year ago the Anglican chaplain didn't appear to own a green stole - he had purple and white ones that he wore with a cassock-alb in the relevant seasons, but the rest of the time he just wore a coloured clerical shirt and a tweed jacket. He was definitely lower end of the Anglical spectrum. The Free Church chaplain always wore a cassock for services though, and of course the Roman Catholic did, but I can't remember if he had a chasuble.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    PDR wrote: »
    @ECraigR - the no vestments at all routine is the sort of thing that would have jangled the nerves of my very proper Low Church rector in my second curacy. We always wore cassock, surplice, and tippet for services, and it also went with the territory that we followed the BCP with great precision, ignoring the more catholic options. I came from a more High Church tradition, so that was a learning curve for me, but I learned to appreciate it. I have learned to be flexible when it comes to ceremonial over the years, but no vestments is going a bit far for me.

    Traditional low church Anglicanism in the Sydney I grew up in - black cassock, surplice and scarf, usually black but no complaints about seasonal change.
  • Cassock, surplice, and scarf at least distinguishes the priest from the lay people. I think that’s increasingly important in a secular world, but I know some disagree with that line of thought.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    edited October 2019
    ECraigR wrote: »
    Cassock, surplice, and scarf at least distinguishes the priest from the lay people. I think that’s increasingly important in a secular world, but I know some disagree with that line of thought.

    There is a certain variety of Evangelical who tends to think of vestments as being too hierarchic and churchy, and ditch them accordingly. I can see the argument when one is dealing with small groups, and folks who already know you, but for the main Sunday services it seems a bit mixed signals. I kick against the 'no vestments' thing because I hold to the line of thought "if you don't like the uniform don't join the regiment." It can also come across as a bit Uriah Heap-ish to me.

    My background was fairly Anglo-Catholic, but it was modern catholic, not the old-fashioned sort. It was basically Vatican II/Novus Ordo type ceremonial, and the then modern CofE rite. It hung together well, and was not in the least bit precious, but it is a much more MOTR way of doing things. You don't seem to find that sort of Anglo-Catholicism much on either coast in the USA. I don't know the former biretta belt.

    My first training incumbent was one of those who still did the old style Anglo-Catholic services - English Missal, etc., then I was transferred to a very traditional Evangelical/Low Church parish where black-and-white and 1662 were the rule. I was odd to start with, so the experience did not make me any worse!
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    I remember attending an RC Mass in Amsterdam 30 or so years ago which was led from the lectern by a succession of lay folk with no priest in sight. Come the offertory and an elderly gentleman in civvies got up from among the congregation and took his place at the altar, still in civvies. At the pax he wandered back to his place and lay folk continued until the end. It was all very reverent and prayerful.
    This was the normal Sunday morning Mass in the local church.
    I doubt it happens now. Things are much more controlled.
    At the time I felt it reduced ministerial priesthood to the man with the magic hands who was wheeled on only when needed, and then popped back in the box. Can't say I liked it much.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Perhaps this thread needs resurrecting: Decently habited, or clothes make the cleric.

    Meanwhile, I'm still trying to get my head around the idea of a hunter's camouflage stole. :open_mouth:

    Try brain bleach.

    Meanwhile, yes here in the shaky isles many clergy celebrate in civvies, even on a Sunday :cry:

  • Alan29 wrote: »
    I remember attending an RC Mass in Amsterdam 30 or so years ago which was led from the lectern by a succession of lay folk with no priest in sight. Come the offertory and an elderly gentleman in civvies got up from among the congregation and took his place at the altar, still in civvies. At the pax he wandered back to his place and lay folk continued until the end. It was all very reverent and prayerful.
    This was the normal Sunday morning Mass in the local church.
    I doubt it happens now. Things are much more controlled.
    At the time I felt it reduced ministerial priesthood to the man with the magic hands who was wheeled on only when needed, and then popped back in the box. Can't say I liked it much.

    Yes, perhaps more appropriate on the revived Decently Habited thread, but IIRC the RCC in The Netherlands went through a time of radical change some 40 years ago, with the abolition of many parishes, the establishment of specific chaplaincies, and so on. I am told that, at one point, it was quite difficult to find an ordinary Sunday Mass in Amsterdam, and other major cities.

    Perhaps what @Alan29 describes was part of that transformation (which may, or may not, have worked)?

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