Corny Choruses

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  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    edited November 2019
    Firstly Shine Jesus Shine fits well into its original context. It is part of March for Jesus and therefore written to sound good in the street, which it does. Also this is a song not a chorus.

    Secondly by Days if Elijah do you mean These are the Days of Elijah ? As a recall I have never sung those lines in that song.
    There are of course many awful hymns. There has to my knowledge not been a thread on that. Not on their own anyway. I may start one.
  • I believe that the Wesleys set out to write hymns for every possible occasion, including for a woman to sing while giving birth. Their hymns that survive are magnificent; there must be hundreds of others that weren't and haven't.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited November 2019
    Hugal wrote: »
    Firstly Shine Jesus Shine fits well into its original context. It is part of March for Jesus and therefore written to sound good in the street, which it does. Also this is a song not a chorus.

    Secondly by Days if Elijah do you mean These are the Days of Elijah ? As a recall I have never sung those lines in that song.
    There are of course many awful hymns. There has to my knowledge not been a thread on that. Not on their own anyway. I may start one.

    I believe the original thread was Horrible Hymns and Crappy Choruses.

    Hymns tend to be awful in a different and more forgettable way, IME.
  • I believe that the Wesleys set out to write hymns for every possible occasion, including for a woman to sing while giving birth. Their hymns that survive are magnificent; there must be hundreds of others that weren't and haven't.

    [serious face]This. The hymns that are in the Hymnal are the result of 100+ years of selection, quietly getting rid of the 90% that are crap and keeping the 10% that are good.

    There is no such filter for the latest Hillsong album, God have mercy on our souls.[/serious face]
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    Hugal wrote: »
    Firstly Secondly by Days if Elijah do you mean These are the Days of Elijah ? As a recall I have never sung those lines in that song.
    There are of course many awful hymns. There has to my knowledge not been a thread on that. Not on their own anyway. I may start one.

    Yep. "These are the days of your servant David / rebuilding a temple of praise". Second verse IIRC. Which, ahem, doesn't quite match the Bible.
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    I believe that the Wesleys set out to write hymns for every possible occasion, including for a woman to sing while giving birth.

    When I was giving birth I didn't have any breath for singing.

  • Yep. "These are the days of your servant David / rebuilding a temple of praise". Second verse IIRC. Which, ahem, doesn't quite match the Bible.
    I think it's a reference to the "tabernacle of David" (1 Chr 16) where David returned the Ark to Jerusalem and set up worship there. Which in contemporary charismatic circles is often used as grounds for setting up 24/7 worship today.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Albums are different to years of selection. There are lots of songs on my Spring Harvest albums that have not survived. If anything we get rid of songs quicker these days. We sing very few songs from two years ago let alone over 20 like Shine Jesus Shine.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    If anything we get rid of songs quicker these days.

    There is a very good reason for this.
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    I believe that the Wesleys set out to write hymns for every possible occasion, including for a woman to sing while giving birth. Their hymns that survive are magnificent; there must be hundreds of others that weren't and haven't.

    [serious face]This. The hymns that are in the Hymnal are the result of 100+ years of selection, quietly getting rid of the 90% that are crap and keeping the 10% that are good.

    There is no such filter for the latest Hillsong album, God have mercy on our souls.[/serious face]

    I've often endorsed this hypothesis. However, it does not account for All Things Bright and Beautiful.
  • Shine Jesus Shine is, I suppose, a hymn, but it does have a chorus:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nA1jb6cbGzk
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    As I said Shine Jesus Shine was not written as a Church hymn or sing or whatever you want to call it. It was written for the street. It was picked up and brought into general worship. You are asking it to be something it is not if you see it as a hymn. I have starts an Evolution if Church Music thread in Purg so I don’t derail this thread
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    If anything we get rid of songs quicker these days.

    There is a very good reason for this.

    And the same applies to all music.
  • Moo wrote: »
    I believe that the Wesleys set out to write hymns for every possible occasion, including for a woman to sing while giving birth.

    When I was giving birth I didn't have any breath for singing.

    I'm sorry to hear you were so spiritual. Have asked for prayer? ;)
  • "Jesus' Love is Very Wonderful". I heard it again the other day and it brought back grim memories of the really bad all-age services we had at the church I used to go to. They didn't attract families -it was usually just the regular congregation, only fewer of them, as a lot of people didn't like them. I was in the choir, but I eventually gave up on them too, and just as well, as one Sunday the curate, desperate to get the middle-aged and elderly congregation to do the actions, made the choir get out of their seats and do the actions at the front of the church to encourage them. One of my friends in the choir was head of a university department, and she was not amused at having to be part of the chorus line!
  • Margaret wrote: »
    "Jesus' Love is Very Wonderful". I heard it again the other day and it brought back grim memories of the really bad all-age services we had at the church I used to go to. They didn't attract families -it was usually just the regular congregation, only fewer of them, as a lot of people didn't like them. I was in the choir, but I eventually gave up on them too, and just as well, as one Sunday the curate, desperate to get the middle-aged and elderly congregation to do the actions, made the choir get out of their seats and do the actions at the front of the church to encourage them. One of my friends in the choir was head of a university department, and she was not amused at having to be part of the chorus line!

    Death is too good for some people.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Hugal wrote: »
    ...We sing very few songs from two years ago let alone over 20 like Shine Jesus Shine.
    And if I had anything to say about it, all copies of SJS would have been shredded, burnt, and buried long ago.

  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    edited November 2019
    You do realise Rossweisse that that response shows exactly how powerful Shine Jesus Shine is as a worship song. If it was meh you along with everyone else would have forgotten by now.
  • Jengie Jon wrote: »
    You do realise Rossweisse that that response shows exactly how powerful Shine Jesus Shine is as a worship song. If it was meh you along with everyone else would have forgotten by now.

    Hmm - I raise those dirges "Lord we lift your name on high" and "And now O Father mindful of the love" as evidence that utter dross doesn't always get weeded out.
  • When last did you hear a rant on either of them?

    Well "Lord We lift your name on high" is newer than Shine, Jesus, Shine and has not really got out of a specific group of charismatics. "And now O Father mindful of your love it fits within quite a specific type of church and has never got into more general use. I must I suppose admit I have had it set as a penance!
  • "Lord We lift your name on high" is a great hit in prison. Still. It's the Gospel, simply explained.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Here's another one from the 60s that some Shipmates will remember well, but which you probably have not heard for a long time.

    I bet you didn't know cut flowers can sing, though they don't seem to be very good at it and despite the compère, they don't seem to be having a very Merry Christmas.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    edited November 2019
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I raise those dirges "Lord we lift your name on high" and "And now O Father mindful of the love" as evidence that utter dross doesn't always get weeded out.
    There's always someone with no taste who likes them. In the case of And Now O Father, me.

  • I have never heard of And Now, O Father, Mindful. Perhaps I should track it down and introduce it.
    (Evil laugh goes here).
  • Which perhaps demonstrates that there's no commonly accepted definition of what's dross.
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I raise those dirges "Lord we lift your name on high" and "And now O Father mindful of the love" as evidence that utter dross doesn't always get weeded out.
    There's always someone with no taste who likes them. In the case of And Now O Father, me.

    And me. The words resonate with me. I like my theology of atonement layered with love and tied to the Eucharist.
  • Jengie Jon wrote: »
    "Lord We lift your name on high" ... has not really got out of a specific group of charismatics.
    Very common in Baptist circles.

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited November 2019
    Dafyd wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I raise those dirges "Lord we lift your name on high" and "And now O Father mindful of the love" as evidence that utter dross doesn't always get weeded out.
    There's always someone with no taste who likes them. In the case of And Now O Father, me.

    And me. The words resonate with me. I like my theology of atonement layered with love and tied to the Eucharist.

    It's the tune I can't abide.
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    Enoch wrote: »
    Here's another one from the 60s that some Shipmates will remember well, but which you probably have not heard for a long time.

    "Go tell it on the mountain" has been around a long time. It is a Negro spiritual.

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Dafyd wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I raise those dirges "Lord we lift your name on high" and "And now O Father mindful of the love" as evidence that utter dross doesn't always get weeded out.
    There's always someone with no taste who likes them. In the case of And Now O Father, me.

    And me. The words resonate with me. I like my theology of atonement layered with love and tied to the Eucharist.

    It's the tune I can't abide.

    The one by Orlando Gibbons (Song 1) is the better of the two provided in our hymnbook, IMHO, but it does, I think, need to be sung not-too-slowly!
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Which perhaps demonstrates that there's no commonly accepted definition of what's dross.

    Quite so.

  • Since we've reached the time of year when we rehearse this sort of stuff, can I nominate 'Do you see what I see?' as a contender for some sort of Worse Than Rutter Award?

    The tune is rather nice, but the words are as though someone got a big jar of sentimental clichés and tipped them out randomly across the page. The nadir being:
    A child, a child shivers in the cold,
    Let us bring him silver and gold

    Yes, because the Christ-child is actually Smaug the Dragon and likes nothing better than to snuggle up to a heap of silver and gold.
  • So what does that everyone think of Lord of the Dance?
  • So what does that everyone think of Lord of the Dance?

    A certain other shipmate, whom I haven't seen post for a while, once revealed that when he sang it in school assemblies his classmates used to replace the word 'dance' with the word 'wank' - thus adding another entry to the list of Hymns I Cannot Sing ...
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    edited November 2019
    I like it. I think the criticism of anti-Semitism lies in a misinterpretation of the phrase ‘the holy people’.

    On a very different note he is also the writer of the widely misattributed Youth of the heart (lyrics) set to music by Donald Swann whom I think he met when they we’re both with the Friends' Ambulance Unit, serving in Egypt, Palestine and Greece.

    (Carter also wrote "Julian of Norwich" (sometimes called "The Bells of Norwich"), based on words of Julian of Norwich, "One More Step Along the World I Go", "When I Needed a Neighbour", "Friday Morning" (lyrics - and a surprising singer), and "Every Star Shall Sing a Carol".)
  • I'm no great fan of the Shiny Jesus song, but I'll concede that once in a while it can be good exercise for the lungs and not a bad way to energise a service, as long as there's something more substantial to follow.

    Has anyone here read Hellsong: The Music of Hillsong - In Praise of Folly by Lance Goodall? I like the title, but judging by the reviews it might be a bit extreme.
  • The bad reputation of certain church movements shouldn't be confused with their worship output. Not all Hillsongs music is "Jesus-is-my boyfriend" and much has quite standard theological content (at least by Pentecostal standards). The same even goes, dare I say it, for Bethel output.
  • Has anyone here read Hellsong: The Music of Hillsong - In Praise of Folly by Lance Goodall? I like the title, but judging by the reviews it might be a bit extreme.

    This gives a flavour: looks as if it's as much about the church as the music. https://boldlions.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/hellsong-print-sample-20jan17.pdf
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Dafyd wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I raise those dirges "Lord we lift your name on high" and "And now O Father mindful of the love" as evidence that utter dross doesn't always get weeded out.
    There's always someone with no taste who likes them. In the case of And Now O Father, me.

    And me. The words resonate with me. I like my theology of atonement layered with love and tied to the Eucharist.

    It's the tune I can't abide.

    I'm pretty tolerant when it comes to tunes, and my instincts tend toward the melancholic so I'm fine with the tune too.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    The bad reputation of certain church movements shouldn't be confused with their worship output. Not all Hillsongs music is "Jesus-is-my boyfriend" and much has quite standard theological content (at least by Pentecostal standards). The same even goes, dare I say it, for Bethel output.

    I'd say that Hillsongs musical output is actually surprisingly good given the source - Bethel less so.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    The bad reputation of certain church movements shouldn't be confused with their worship output. Not all Hillsongs music is "Jesus-is-my boyfriend" and much has quite standard theological content (at least by Pentecostal standards). The same even goes, dare I say it, for Bethel output.

    I'd say that Hillsongs musical output is actually surprisingly good given the source - Bethel less so.

    Don't you find the source rather deters you from wanting to use the material? It does me.
  • Hmm ,,, God didn't allow him, as a man of war, to build it the first time; Solomon had to do it instead.

    Add David having been Jody towards Uriah... (Cf Jarhead)
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Enoch wrote: »
    Here's another one from the 60s that some Shipmates will remember well, but which you probably have not heard for a long time.

    I bet you didn't know cut flowers can sing, though they don't seem to be very good at it and despite the compère, they don't seem to be having a very Merry Christmas.
    Not only is it terrible singing, they're completely expressionless. That's pretty bad.

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Don't you find the source rather deters you from wanting to use the material? It does me.

    You have to approach it like blind-tasting wine. I discovered we were singing some Bethel songs after the fact.

    I can totally relate to trauma putting one off certain songs and worship stables for life; that said, I've found I've got over some of my trauma. If the content is acceptable, I'll sing it (I don't think I'm ever going back to full-on charismatic worship praxix personally though).

    It's tempting to be a worship-song purist but then I recall my father-in-law's church which on that basis was stuck with Gadsby's hymnal (which was itself a rather radical step forward from singing just the metrical Psalms, unaccompanied on principle...); the chapel in question is now a wine bar.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    You have to approach it like blind-tasting wine. I discovered we were singing some Bethel songs after the fact.
    Yes. A church musician of my acquaintance refused even to look at the newer version of "Carol Praise" because it came from an Evangelical publishing house and was therefore, ipso facto, full of rubbish.

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Dafyd wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I raise those dirges "Lord we lift your name on high" and "And now O Father mindful of the love" as evidence that utter dross doesn't always get weeded out.
    There's always someone with no taste who likes them. In the case of And Now O Father, me.

    And me. The words resonate with me. I like my theology of atonement layered with love and tied to the Eucharist.

    It's the tune I can't abide.

    I'm pretty tolerant when it comes to tunes, and my instincts tend toward the melancholic so I'm fine with the tune too.

    I like the tune as well, but it is rather forgettable. I imagine that if the congregation isn't confident, it degenerates into a sort of no-you-first mumbling.
  • Ricardus wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Dafyd wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I raise those dirges "Lord we lift your name on high" and "And now O Father mindful of the love" as evidence that utter dross doesn't always get weeded out.
    There's always someone with no taste who likes them. In the case of And Now O Father, me.

    And me. The words resonate with me. I like my theology of atonement layered with love and tied to the Eucharist.

    It's the tune I can't abide.

    I'm pretty tolerant when it comes to tunes, and my instincts tend toward the melancholic so I'm fine with the tune too.

    I like the tune as well, but it is rather forgettable. I imagine that if the congregation isn't confident, it degenerates into a sort of no-you-first mumbling.

    Ah, yes, well. Confidence when singing is not something I've ever been accused of lacking. Other things (perfect pitch, a care for the ears of the person in front, ability to blend into a choir...) yes, but not that.
  • Ricardus wrote: »
    So what does that everyone think of Lord of the Dance?

    A certain other shipmate, whom I haven't seen post for a while, once revealed that when he sang it in school assemblies his classmates used to replace the word 'dance' with the word 'wank' - thus adding another entry to the list of Hymns I Cannot Sing ...

    Same as the version of While Shepherds Watched featured on the 4 dinner Vicar of Dibley Christmas episode?
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Ricardus wrote: »
    I'm pretty tolerant when it comes to tunes, and my instincts tend toward the melancholic so I'm fine with the tune too.
    I like the tune as well, but it is rather forgettable. I imagine that if the congregation isn't confident, it degenerates into a sort of no-you-first mumbling.
    Are we all talking about the English Hymnal tune? (Unde et Memores if I can interpret correctly.) I can hear that in my head, and my memory for tunes is not great.
  • Yes, Unde et Memores it is (well, that's the one I think we're referring to, and it's the one we sang at Our Place this morning).
  • I wouldn't call it a hymn or chorus, but as part of our Rememberance Sunday service this morning, we had 'I had a dream the other night, the strangest dream of all"..
    And if we are thinking about Christmas music, can I add "O Holy night" to the list of vocal monstrosities?
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