(For those keeping count, these allegations date to 2003, when Kobe Bryant was 24, and had been married for two years. Wikipedia has a summary here.
My opinion is that calling Kobe Bryant "a very bad person" is excessive. It is clear that he did a very bad thing - if you take his version of events, which is the most favorable to him, then he still did a very bad thing in 2003.
It's also clear that he has done a number of very good things with, for example, charitable work supporting kids.
These things don't cancel each other out - that's not how life works. You don't get to erase bad things by doing a couple more good things.
But if you're describing someone as a "bad person" then I think you need an ongoing pattern of bad behaviour - you need to establish that they are regularly doing bad things. And in the case of Kobe Bryant, I don't think you have that.
Can I just suggest that shipmates read up a bit more on the case before leaping to Kobe's defense. I considered calling Gramps to Hell for his "Here we go again" comment and statement that "restorative justice" has been achieved in some way, which is at best grossly inaccurate.
The civil suit wasn't any kind of victory for the young woman - the criminal case was dropped only a week before it was due to go to trial, because the victim couldn't stand being dragged through the mud by the defense team and the media any more. There was plenty of physical evidence that a brutal assault took place. The girl's blood was found on Kobe's t-shirt and a medical exam found multiple lacerations in her vaginal wall.
Other women have come forward and said Bryant assaulted them in similar situations (see the above articles). They just didn't report it to the police because - for some reason - they figured Kobe would probably get away with it anyway.
This thread is purely for marking the passing of celebrities, with a few anecdotes or remarks about each if people feel so inclined.
The Circus isn't the place for speculation about the rights or wrongs of the celebrities' behaviour; as the charges were dropped against Mr. Bryant, I don't think any further discussion of the subject here is appropriate.
I started a "Restorative Justice" thread in Purgatory earlier this morning because I felt that my contributions here were derailing the topic and the discussion was clearly non-Circus. It is here.
Sadly, that appears to be correct. Some years ago, when he was vicar of Holy Island, which has a village and a parish church on it, I met him. Lovely man.
George Steiner, polymathic critic and scholar, dead at 90. In a strange nexus of coincidence, I returned to his Errata last Thursday, and he died on my birthday.
I'm not sure if that is how you describe being "clipped" by one car and then run over by another whose driver was "distracted" by people trying to slow him down
Her family have confirmed that she took her own life. So sad.
Yes - I have seen that the original article was updated. When I posted, there was a lot of speculation that it was suicide, but no statement, so I wanted to avoid adding to the questions.
It is so sad that someone so young, so talented, should be driven to this - the media hatred directed at her has been vile.
Elsewhere on the Ship folk are debating as to whether or not this thread should exist. I have the perfect solution. For those defending the Death Pool, how about setting up a Ship only version? Several of us have cancer, any of us could be hit by a car, and all our deaths would be reported on the Ship. Why not keep this in house, and speculate on which of us won't make it to the end of the year?
No harm to you, @Robert Armin, but IMHO that's a terrible idea.
The Celebrity Death Pool involves, almost exclusively, people we've never met and with whom we'd be very unlikely to have any interaction, but I see the Ship community as a group of friends. Would you be comfortable with the idea of a Death Pool of your RL friends or family? I certainly wouldn't.
Just my tuppence-worth (and to be clear, that's just me posting as a Shipmate - not Hosting).
Which is my point. If I'm not happy with something being done to me, or members of my family, I don't think I should do it to others.
I've never liked this thread, but in the past have been content to ignore it. Now that I'm thinking about death quite a bit my feelings have changed from dislike to revulsion.
If you read it, the posts are celebrating and marking the deaths of people in the public eye. Removing the game aspect would make it less interesting.
I don't think it is ever done to celebrate death. It is a way for those of us who wish to to mark the passing of people. I feel that is a good thing - they would otherwise get missed.
Comments
He passed away without repetition, hesitation or deviation.
[Edit to add due to page break] BUZZ!
RIP, Mr. Parsons.
(For those keeping count, these allegations date to 2003, when Kobe Bryant was 24, and had been married for two years. Wikipedia has a summary here.
My opinion is that calling Kobe Bryant "a very bad person" is excessive. It is clear that he did a very bad thing - if you take his version of events, which is the most favorable to him, then he still did a very bad thing in 2003.
It's also clear that he has done a number of very good things with, for example, charitable work supporting kids.
These things don't cancel each other out - that's not how life works. You don't get to erase bad things by doing a couple more good things.
But if you're describing someone as a "bad person" then I think you need an ongoing pattern of bad behaviour - you need to establish that they are regularly doing bad things. And in the case of Kobe Bryant, I don't think you have that.
The civil suit wasn't any kind of victory for the young woman - the criminal case was dropped only a week before it was due to go to trial, because the victim couldn't stand being dragged through the mud by the defense team and the media any more. There was plenty of physical evidence that a brutal assault took place. The girl's blood was found on Kobe's t-shirt and a medical exam found multiple lacerations in her vaginal wall.
Other women have come forward and said Bryant assaulted them in similar situations (see the above articles). They just didn't report it to the police because - for some reason - they figured Kobe would probably get away with it anyway.
This thread is purely for marking the passing of celebrities, with a few anecdotes or remarks about each if people feel so inclined.
The Circus isn't the place for speculation about the rights or wrongs of the celebrities' behaviour; as the charges were dropped against Mr. Bryant, I don't think any further discussion of the subject here is appropriate.
Thank you.
Piglet, Circus host
I started a "Restorative Justice" thread in Purgatory earlier this morning because I felt that my contributions here were derailing the topic and the discussion was clearly non-Circus. It is here.
His work was really important for me at times. I used some of his liturgies to help keep me sane.
For me, he embraced the celtic spirit, without the total romanticism that often comes with it.
Anyone else remember Uriel - who won year after year, and then chose 13 people all over the age of 100!
I remember - I think in fact he chose 13 people over 110, and only lost 3 in the course of the year!
AG
1 Priscilla 23 1 0
1 Sipech 23 1 0
1 Spike 23 1 0
1 Schroedingers Cat 23 1 0
6 McMaverick -3 1 1
2 Priscilla 23 1 0
2 Schroedingers Cat 23 1 0
2 Simon Toad 23 1 0
2 Sipech 23 1 0
6 Eigon 4 1 0
6 Phantom_Flan_Flinger 4 1 0
8 McMaverick -3 1 1
He was of late a climate change campaigner, and (to me) the reports sound suspicious to me. But what do I know. Such a young age.
[Fixed link - la vie en rouge, Circus host]
It does note that she was due to stand trial soon, which makes this suspicious (IMO).
Yes - I have seen that the original article was updated. When I posted, there was a lot of speculation that it was suicide, but no statement, so I wanted to avoid adding to the questions.
It is so sad that someone so young, so talented, should be driven to this - the media hatred directed at her has been vile.
Nine points to me.
The Celebrity Death Pool involves, almost exclusively, people we've never met and with whom we'd be very unlikely to have any interaction, but I see the Ship community as a group of friends. Would you be comfortable with the idea of a Death Pool of your RL friends or family? I certainly wouldn't.
Just my tuppence-worth (and to be clear, that's just me posting as a Shipmate - not Hosting).
I've never liked this thread, but in the past have been content to ignore it. Now that I'm thinking about death quite a bit my feelings have changed from dislike to revulsion.
If you read it, the posts are celebrating and marking the deaths of people in the public eye. Removing the game aspect would make it less interesting.
I don't think it is ever done to celebrate death. It is a way for those of us who wish to to mark the passing of people. I feel that is a good thing - they would otherwise get missed.
Perhaps you need "snark marks" for the benefit of people as unsubtle as I am.
As SC says, the Death Pool is often as much a tribute to the late celebrities - many of us find that we get points when we'd much rather not.
I'm inclined to think that any further discussion of the rights and wrongs of this thread belong in the Styx, rather than here.
Thank you.
Piglet, Circus host
2 Priscilla 23 1 0
2 Schroedingers Cat 23 1 0
2 Simon Toad 23 1 0
2 Sipech 23 1 0
6 Leorning Cniht 9 1 0
6 la vie en rouge 9 1 0
8 Eigon 4 1 0
8 Phantom_Flan_Flinger 4 1 0
10 McMaverick -3 1 1
I've started a Styx thread, but don't know how to link to it.