Back several decades when I was in my first parish we had a mid week Eucharist. Yes, at times the priest would offer some commentary on the lessons (always 3). But, perhaps blending traditions of clergy interpretting the word, and individuals reading and making up their own mind, we would at times ask the small congregation what they'd heard, what they'd thought the lessons were saying. Sort of a mini Bible study group in place of one person's words. It was refreshing, especially to hear some deep throughts from those one never expected to speak.
The Bible is the living Word of God? Surely it's the written word, that points to the living Word?
But when read aloud ........
Well first there is interpretation going on in the reading of the passage. Even when the individual has just got up to read and looked at the passage. Yes I have done it, no it is not my preference and I would much prefer to prepare prayerfully for doing this.
Secondly, I really do believe in the power of pastoral visiting and prayer for the congregation and see these as essential parts of sermon preparation. Remember the Word in the Bible is like the Church i.e the universal church, the Word in the sermon is like this church i.e. the particular church. In other words the hearers of the Sermon should have the question "What is the Word saying to me and this Congregation?" while listening to the sermon. The idea that just reading the Bible somehow will make up for those parts of sermon preparation seems to me dubious.
Zappa wrote a long post on January 4th, commencing: "I must say I get sick of constant whingeing about "the sermon." ...". Can I just say, "Amen" to it! Thank you.
The Bible is the living Word of God? Surely it's the written word, that points to the living Word?
But when read aloud ........
Well first there is interpretation going on in the reading of the passage. Even when the individual has just got up to read and looked at the passage. Yes I have done it, no it is not my preference and I would much prefer to prepare prayerfully for doing this.
Secondly, I really do believe in the power of pastoral visiting and prayer for the congregation and see these as essential parts of sermon preparation. Remember the Word in the Bible is like the Church i.e the universal church, the Word in the sermon is like this church i.e. the particular church. In other words the hearers of the Sermon should have the question "What is the Word saying to me and this Congregation?" while listening to the sermon. The idea that just reading the Bible somehow will make up for those parts of sermon preparation seems to me dubious.
I agree. Pastors should have their people in mind when preparing the sermon.
The Bible is the living Word of God? Surely it's the written word, that points to the living Word?
But when read aloud ........
Well first there is interpretation going on in the reading of the passage. Even when the individual has just got up to read and looked at the passage. Yes I have done it, no it is not my preference and I would much prefer to prepare prayerfully for doing this.
Secondly, I really do believe in the power of pastoral visiting and prayer for the congregation and see these as essential parts of sermon preparation. Remember the Word in the Bible is like the Church i.e the universal church, the Word in the sermon is like this church i.e. the particular church. In other words the hearers of the Sermon should have the question "What is the Word saying to me and this Congregation?" while listening to the sermon. The idea that just reading the Bible somehow will make up for those parts of sermon preparation seems to me dubious.
I agree. Pastors should have their people in mind when preparing the sermon.
I'd imagine there are very few who don't think they do.
The Bible is the living Word of God? Surely it's the written word, that points to the living Word?
But when read aloud ........
Reading the Bible aloud doesn't make the Bible magic.
There are several times where Scripture talks about Scripture being alive. I take that to refer to the extraordinary way in which God uses the written word. Those times when a passage seems directed straight at you, even though you know it's hundreds of years old, and millions of others have read the same words before. (And bearing in mind all the potential pitfalls.)
The Bible is wonderful because God chooses to speak to us through it. It isn't magic, and its not on a par with God's full revelation of himself - the incarnate Word.
Please would someone help me track down the score for the Salve, Regina?
I have looked and looked and only been able to find the simple version but I'm looking for the more beautiful version that I've come across a few times. All I have been able to find is this, which is a variation on the one I know but different enough to be very jarring.
I have it in a version adapted to French, (which is very beautifully harmonised) but I'm looking for the original version for the Latin text, so I can apply the same harmonies.
Thank you, @Robertus L . I am familiar with this but it it is this one that I'm after, sung at one of the parishes of my jurisdiction (in French) here.
Thanks for this, @Alan29 . This looks like the same version I was able to find on Gregobase (linked above). I had never heard it until your link, nor had I realised it is the version in the Liber. I assume, then, that this is the more commonly-known version and is the variant I'm likely to find online.
I might write to the German monastery linked above and ask if they can send me a scan or photo.
I have emailed the monastery but I'm still searching online. It seems there are a number of variations on the more solemn melody (none of them so far the one that I want). In my searching, I came across this beautiful troped version, which I thought I would share.
Lent begins for some of us tomorrow (Ash Wednesday). How many of you will be having a (possibly Eucharistic) service with Ashing during the day?
We are having just a 730pm Mass (with hymns, and Imposition of Ashes), but at least two other local Anglican churches are holding their services during the morning, at 930am/10am. Our Cathedral is offering a said Eucharist at 1pm, and a sung Eucharist at 530pm (in the Evensong slot!).
I ask because ISTM that Ash Wednesday is a rather arbitrary day on which to begin Lent (yes! I know it has a long history, but Lent itself has not always been of the same length). I wonder whether there is any legitimate reason not to begin Lent on the First Sunday, when attendance is likely to be higher than during the week.
Such a service (which need not be Eucharistic, if a priest is not available) would include the now-customary Imposition of Ashes, along with the penitential material provided by Common Worship in the C of E.
I daresay that there are rural/multi-church benefices, where such an arrangement is necessary, and IIRC the red book Lent, Holy Week, and Easter (1986) made suitable provision.
IOW, I'm probably not going to be at our 730pm Mass tomorrow, mainly for health reasons, but will make for a morning or lunchtime service elsewhere instead. I'd rather be with our own congregation, but...
Depending on what happens tomorrow, FatherInCharge may decide to make some alterations next year!
Lent begins for some of us tomorrow (Ash Wednesday). How many of you will be having a (possibly Eucharistic) service with Ashing during the day?
In these parts, it’s common for Catholic and Episcopal (and some other) churches to have three services on Ash Wednesday—one early in the morning that people can go to on their way to work, another at lunchtime (which often draws folks who aren’t members of that parish but who work nearby), and then one in the evening.
We have just the evening service, which this year will be a joint service with a sister congregation and the local Presbyterian campus ministry group. In the past, when I knew getting to the evening service at our church would be difficult for me due to family schedules and obligations, I’ve gone to the lunchtime Eucharist at the Episcopal church a block from my office.
We will be having Penitential Office and Communion at 5:30pm, which seems to work for my folks. Somewhat reluctantly I do ashes because we do palms on Palm Sunday, and the ex-RCs and ex-Piskies expect them. Attendance will, in all likelihood, be close to what we get at the main service on a Sunday.
Well, I did suggest to FatherInCharge that he might do well to have a lunch-time service (no hymns), but I think he wanted to see how the evening service went this year.
It seems Right and Proper to hold at least one (said) service on Ash Wednesday, but would the sky fall in, or would we have to spend an extra million years in Purgatory, if we did away with Ash Wednesday, and had all the stuff with ashes on the following Sunday?
Yes, under such circumstances, doubtless we would do the same.
Which sort of underlines my point - is Ash Wednesday really necessary? I agree that, with having it on a weekday, more opportunities to attend church/be ashed are possible, even if one attends a church other than one's own - the more, the merrier!
There are four (Anglican) churches in our Local Ministry Group, and the practice is for one to host an Ash Wednesday service. The churches are all within a couple of miles of each other. Last year, Our Place held a Eucharist with imposition of ashes mid morning. This year, another church is holding an evening service. This is advertised as a Eucharist, but no mention of ashes so I will have to see what happens on the night.
@ BishopsFinger. Yes!
Several years ago I filled in on Lent I for an ill colleague at a neighboring parish. He'd planned the full penitential rite as the entrance rite. I thought it odd, but it actually seemed a smoother flow, and allowed more people to participate. Ashes were not included, but were optional after the postlude for those who must have them. I've encouraged the Lay Reader at the parish I serve twice a month to give that a try -- penitential rite, readings, comment on lessons, prayers and dismissal.
It seems not uncommon nowadays for neighbouring churches to hold joint services on Ash Wednesday, and/or Ascension Day, but we're not in a Group, Team, or Cluster (yet!).
In all fairness, we do try to avoid clashing with each other as to various services and events, but ISTM that there is scope for Our Place, along with the four other local C of E parishes, to do something similar to what @Darda describes. We have a long-established, but now rather tired, tradition of joint evening worship on the Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, of Holy Week, but, frankly, this only really results in peeps being 'churched out' by Maundy Thursday!
@Nick Tamen Well, yes, Ash Wednesday allows us to have 40 days of Lent and can echo Jesus' time of prayer and temptation and the 40 years of wandering of the Hebrew people after the Passover and flight from Egypt.
I can feel a real and strong value in that -- the echo of 40 and 40 and 40 again links us with both of those events. So our journey in the spirit may resonate with that freedom from bondage, and Jesus' temptation to a different bondage. But, IMHO it takes well prepared preaching and careful education to make that resonance really sing in the life of the congregation. That thought that "their journey is my journey" has real power, and offers hope. But, seldom have I heard that preaching or education, or provided it myself, (mea culpa) to create that resonance for the people I walk with. And so "why 40 days" becomes a valid question, as Bishops Finger notes.
@Nick Tamen Well, yes, Ash Wednesday allows us to have 40 days of Lent and can echo Jesus' time of prayer and temptation and the 40 years of wandering of the Hebrew people after the Passover and flight from Egypt.
I can feel a real and strong value in that -- the echo of 40 and 40 and 40 again links us with both of those events. So our journey in the spirit may resonate with that freedom from bondage, and Jesus' temptation to a different bondage.
Totally agree. with what I have extracted from your post and add Moses' 40 days on the mountain.
Back a few posts, St Sanity will have 3 services with ashing - early morning, midday and then evening. The midday will cater for those working nearby. Not many at the early morning, a reasonable number at midday and varying numbers in the evening. As the forecast is for thunderstorms later in the day, probably not that many this year for the evening service.
Well, I did suggest to FatherInCharge that he might do well to have a lunch-time service (no hymns), but I think he wanted to see how the evening service went this year.
It seems Right and Proper to hold at least one (said) service on Ash Wednesday, but would the sky fall in, or would we have to spend an extra million years in Purgatory, if we did away with Ash Wednesday, and had all the stuff with ashes on the following Sunday?
Us wee piskies are authorised to move the imposition of ashes to the Sunday (or indeed any of the intervening days) under the new "experimental" rites. There is also provision for ashing to be conducted by a lay person in the context of a service of the word. Both provisions reflect the fact that in much of Scotland the distances required for priests to travel between congregations make the timing of Eucharistic worship a matter of flexibility. https://www.scotland.anglican.org/wp-content/uploads/A-Rite-for-the-Beginning-of-Lent-B.pdf
St Quacks is having an evening service. (Full sung Mass). Fr Duck has cancelled the usual Wednesday morning low Mass, to get people to come out, and tbh the core congregation tend to do so. For me though evening services are rather awkward because I'm normally on bedtime duty.
We had a service of Healing and Reconciliation tonight, which was a bit of an innovation, and Mr Dragon informs me it went quite well. (It was then followed by pancakes.) I was at home with the Dragonlets.
Frs Duck and Duckling will be at the railway station (which is in the parish) tomorrow from about 7.30 to offer ashes to anyone who wants them when they are passing through.
I'm not sure what the other Anglo-Catholic parishes locally are doing: there may be a morning service, but atm we have the problem that St Quack's is the only one with an Incumbent, so it involves getting the local retired clergy to come out. (And none of them are really doable on public transport from us.) Checking the websites of the various local churches informs me that I am basically out of luck on suitable service options, as they're all either in the evening or clash with work.
Of course, to make it 40 days you have to exclude Sundays. Does anyone give themselves a weekly break from their Lenten discipline in this way? I understand the logic behind it, but it feels odd.
Of course, to make it 40 days you have to exclude Sundays. Does anyone give themselves a weekly break from their Lenten discipline in this way? I understand the logic behind it, but it feels odd.
We do (Western Orthodox).
It's written into our fasting rule. The fast is not kept on Sunday as this is always a celebration of the Resurrection. Therefore, it's a feast day and never a fast day. Those intending to receive Holy Communion still keep the customary fast, of course, but only up to the point of receiving. Otherwise, Sundays are not kept as a day of fasting.
The rule of abstinence is also slightly relaxed on the Sundays of Lent. So fish and wine may be taken. Otherwise, meat, poultry, and dairy are still avoided.
That way, the lenten discipline isn't abandoned altogether but neither is the weekly celebration of the Resurrection of the Lord disregarded. It's all about balance.
St Quacks is having an evening service. (Full sung Mass). Fr Duck has cancelled the usual Wednesday morning low Mass, to get people to come out, and tbh the core congregation tend to do so. For me though evening services are rather awkward because I'm normally on bedtime duty.
A nearby Baptist church prepared Ash Wednesday “kits” for families with younger children who might have trouble getting to church on Ash Wednesday evening. (Bear in mind that Wednesday night church activities, often including supper and prayer meeting, have long been the norm for Baptist churches in these parts.)
As I understand it, the kits include ashes and age-appropriate activities and prayers.
And @Robert Armin, yes, depending on the particular discipline I’ve chosen some years, I have given myself a break on Sundays. But not all years.
Lent begins for some of us tomorrow (Ash Wednesday). How many of you will be having a (possibly Eucharistic) service with Ashing during the day?
We won't be as we don't have our own building and are rather restricted by concerns other than liturgical correctness at the moment.
So we didn't do Vespers this evening. Instead, we incorporated some elements of this evenings propers into Vespers last Saturday evening for Quinquagesima, most notably, the mournful Ecclesiastical Psalm bidding farewell to the alleluia:
Alleluia! Alleluia!
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down and wept, when we remembered Zion.
Alleluia!
On the willows in the midst of it we hung up our instruments.
Alleluia!
For there those who captured us asked us for songs and those who led us away called for a tune.
Alleluia!
'Sing us some of the songs of Zion', they say, but how shall we sing the Lord’s song in a foreign land?
Alleluia!
If I forget you, O Jerusalem, may my right hand be forgotten. May my tongue stick to my throat if I do not remember you.
Alleluia!
If I do not set Jerusalem foremost, as in the beginning of my happiness.
Alleluia!
The use of Psalm 136 in this way sung to znamenny chant is astoundingly moving. I can happily send it to anyone who'd like it.
Then, we closed with:
Deacon: Alleluia! Close and seal up this word!
Alleluia! May it rest in the secret place of your heart until the appointed time,
and when the day is come, you will say with great joy:
People: Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
This coming Saturday evening, we'll have Vespers for the First Sunday of Lent, followed by the rite of Mutual Forgiveness and the imposition of Ashes. Then, after a lenten supper together, we'll close with Compline.
As for breaking your fast on Sundays, if I've given up something like chocolate or alcohol, having a bit makes it harder to go back on the wagon, as it were. But maybe that's only me.
@Nick Tamen ...echo Jesus' time of prayer and temptation and the 40 years of wandering of the Hebrew people after the Passover and flight from Egypt....But, IMHO it takes well prepared preaching and careful education to make that resonance really sing in the life of the congregation.
Even if someone in the congregation doesn't realize the 40-day connection, there are two other symbols that IMHO would be distorted by having the start of Lent on Sunday:
1. The nature of Sunday as a celebration of the Resurrection. It seems "off" to me that we would start a period of self-reflection & penance on the day of the week that should be the least self-focused & the most joyous. Sunday is about thinking of what Jesus' victory over death did for us despite our failings, not fretting over those failings (as much as that has its place for a conscientious person).
2. Part of Lent is about getting out of any "ruts" of sin or complacency that we tend to naturally fall into in our lives. Starting that journey by going to church on a day that is not the "typical church day" is a good way to start that "snapping out of it." Offering a service on Not-Sunday also gives parishioners the chance to make any inconvenience they might suffer as a result of the irregular time their first ascetic offering of the season.
Today I expect will:
1) be taking part in Ashes to Go
2) be at an informal Eucharist where I may well be ashed
3) be at a sung mass where I will be ashed.
The 'Ashes to Go' is an experiment by the Chaplaincy to see whether taking Ashing in the public space engages us with people who probably would otherwise not even guess that the Chaplaincy existed.
@Nick Tamen ...echo Jesus' time of prayer and temptation and the 40 years of wandering of the Hebrew people after the Passover and flight from Egypt....But, IMHO it takes well prepared preaching and careful education to make that resonance really sing in the life of the congregation.
Even if someone in the congregation doesn't realize the 40-day connection, there are two other symbols that IMHO would be distorted by having the start of Lent on Sunday:
1. The nature of Sunday as a celebration of the Resurrection. It seems "off" to me that we would start a period of self-reflection & penance on the day of the week that should be the least self-focused & the most joyous. Sunday is about thinking of what Jesus' victory over death did for us despite our failings, not fretting over those failings (as much as that has its place for a conscientious person).
2. Part of Lent is about getting out of any "ruts" of sin or complacency that we tend to naturally fall into in our lives. Starting that journey by going to church on a day that is not the "typical church day" is a good way to start that "snapping out of it." Offering a service on Not-Sunday also gives parishioners the chance to make any inconvenience they might suffer as a result of the irregular time their first ascetic offering of the season.
The most "enjoyable" thing about Ash Wednesday for me is the rather amusing discord between the modern (post-mediaeval) way of doing ashes and the traditional Gospel of the day (Matthew 6: 16ff.)
The most "enjoyable" thing about Ash Wednesday for me is the rather amusing discord between the modern (post-mediaeval) way of doing ashes and the traditional Gospel of the day (Matthew 6: 16ff.)
Our ashes are sprinkled on the head, in keeping with the rubrics. (I understand anecdotally this is the majority practice in most of the non-anglophone world too, although I'm happy to be corrected.) It's in the act of receiving the ash that we have our minds moved to penitence. The ash then simply falls off or blows away, which serves as a further reminder of our mortality, in keeping with the words used at the imposition.
Where does the practice come from of leaving a lasting mark on the face, and moreover of mixing the ash with oil or some other substance in order to facilitate this?
The most "enjoyable" thing about Ash Wednesday for me is the rather amusing discord between the modern (post-mediaeval) way of doing ashes and the traditional Gospel of the day (Matthew 6: 16ff.)
Which is one reason I always wipe the ashes off immediately after the service.
I like the idea of sprinkling the ashes on the head, which I too understand to be the practice in most of the world.
The most "enjoyable" thing about Ash Wednesday for me is the rather amusing discord between the modern (post-mediaeval) way of doing ashes and the traditional Gospel of the day (Matthew 6: 16ff.)
Which is one reason I always wipe the ashes off immediately after the service.
I like the idea of sprinkling the ashes on the head, which I too understand to be the practice in most of the world.
Yes, the paradox mentioned by @PDR struck me too! I wipe the oily ash off asap, although today I waited until I got home, having put on my Cap in the meantime. The oily ash is now on the inside of my Cap.
It sometimes strikes people as odd, too, that the Ash Wednesday Gospel is NOT the bit about Our Lord's sojourn in the wilderness...
A straightforward said Eucharist with Ashing at the Cathedral today, with about 30 present (which may sound a bit thin, but filled the Lady Chapel nicely). It was quite refreshing, in a way, to attend a service where I didn't have to do anything, except receive what Our Lord was giving me.
I have been known to put tissues/wet wipes by the door with a notices saying
when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that your fasting may be seen not by others but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. (Matt 6.17, 18)
Had the Cathedral been so minded as to provide such facilities, I would not now have an oily patch in my Cap...
FatherInCharge does take the trouble to ask people to keep any Lenten discipline they may decide upon between themselves and God, in line with Our Lord's instructions.
One or two people will, I know, nevertheless go out of their way to proclaim that they have given up CHOCOLATE (or whatever). If asked what I'm giving up for Lent, I put on a serious expression, and piously reply that I have given up asking people what they're giving up for Lent...
@Nick Tamen ...echo Jesus' time of prayer and temptation and the 40 years of wandering of the Hebrew people after the Passover and flight from Egypt....But, IMHO it takes well prepared preaching and careful education to make that resonance really sing in the life of the congregation.
Even if someone in the congregation doesn't realize the 40-day connection, there are two other symbols that IMHO would be distorted by having the start of Lent on Sunday:
1. The nature of Sunday as a celebration of the Resurrection. It seems "off" to me that we would start a period of self-reflection & penance on the day of the week that should be the least self-focused & the most joyous. Sunday is about thinking of what Jesus' victory over death did for us despite our failings, not fretting over those failings (as much as that has its place for a conscientious person).
2. Part of Lent is about getting out of any "ruts" of sin or complacency that we tend to naturally fall into in our lives. Starting that journey by going to church on a day that is not the "typical church day" is a good way to start that "snapping out of it." Offering a service on Not-Sunday also gives parishioners the chance to make any inconvenience they might suffer as a result of the irregular time their first ascetic offering of the season.
Absolutely. These days, when I'm not in parish ministry but an " 'ead office" job, I find it even more powerful to change the routine, take myself off to an ir- or less regular liturgical event, to have no control over the liturgy, and to be touched by God in whatever eventuates. My eccentric local church was attended by the normal tiny gaggle of people, not many wise, not many noble (not many at all - we are a dozen or so most Sundays and were about 2/3rds of that) we were ashed, made eucharist, and my heart was strangely warmed.
[edited to add: and yes, I have long believed the ashes should be removed as we go out into the world. I have never added oil - dunno if they did last night. But I removed them. And by telling you that I have already broken the spirit of Jesus' saying, for I have advertised my spiritual practices ]
on an entirely nother but not unrelated matter ... just occasionally I see priests wear their stoles outside their chazziez. What the actual? Is this a thing? I think Fr Whatisname in Ballykisangel did, in fact. ¿Qué?
Comments
But when read aloud ........
Well first there is interpretation going on in the reading of the passage. Even when the individual has just got up to read and looked at the passage. Yes I have done it, no it is not my preference and I would much prefer to prepare prayerfully for doing this.
Secondly, I really do believe in the power of pastoral visiting and prayer for the congregation and see these as essential parts of sermon preparation. Remember the Word in the Bible is like the Church i.e the universal church, the Word in the sermon is like this church i.e. the particular church. In other words the hearers of the Sermon should have the question "What is the Word saying to me and this Congregation?" while listening to the sermon. The idea that just reading the Bible somehow will make up for those parts of sermon preparation seems to me dubious.
I agree. Pastors should have their people in mind when preparing the sermon.
Reading the Bible aloud doesn't make the Bible magic.
There are several times where Scripture talks about Scripture being alive. I take that to refer to the extraordinary way in which God uses the written word. Those times when a passage seems directed straight at you, even though you know it's hundreds of years old, and millions of others have read the same words before. (And bearing in mind all the potential pitfalls.)
The Bible is wonderful because God chooses to speak to us through it. It isn't magic, and its not on a par with God's full revelation of himself - the incarnate Word.
I have looked and looked and only been able to find the simple version but I'm looking for the more beautiful version that I've come across a few times. All I have been able to find is this, which is a variation on the one I know but different enough to be very jarring.
I have it in a version adapted to French, (which is very beautifully harmonised) but I'm looking for the original version for the Latin text, so I can apply the same harmonies.
I'd be grateful for any help.
http://gregorian-chant-hymns.com/hymns-2/salve-regina-simple.html
Thank you, @Robertus L . I am familiar with this but it it is this one that I'm after, sung at one of the parishes of my jurisdiction (in French) here.
Thanks for this, @Alan29 . This looks like the same version I was able to find on Gregobase (linked above). I had never heard it until your link, nor had I realised it is the version in the Liber. I assume, then, that this is the more commonly-known version and is the variant I'm likely to find online.
I might write to the German monastery linked above and ask if they can send me a scan or photo.
We are having just a 730pm Mass (with hymns, and Imposition of Ashes), but at least two other local Anglican churches are holding their services during the morning, at 930am/10am. Our Cathedral is offering a said Eucharist at 1pm, and a sung Eucharist at 530pm (in the Evensong slot!).
I ask because ISTM that Ash Wednesday is a rather arbitrary day on which to begin Lent (yes! I know it has a long history, but Lent itself has not always been of the same length). I wonder whether there is any legitimate reason not to begin Lent on the First Sunday, when attendance is likely to be higher than during the week.
Such a service (which need not be Eucharistic, if a priest is not available) would include the now-customary Imposition of Ashes, along with the penitential material provided by Common Worship in the C of E.
I daresay that there are rural/multi-church benefices, where such an arrangement is necessary, and IIRC the red book Lent, Holy Week, and Easter (1986) made suitable provision.
IOW, I'm probably not going to be at our 730pm Mass tomorrow, mainly for health reasons, but will make for a morning or lunchtime service elsewhere instead. I'd rather be with our own congregation, but...
Depending on what happens tomorrow, FatherInCharge may decide to make some alterations next year!
We have just the evening service, which this year will be a joint service with a sister congregation and the local Presbyterian campus ministry group. In the past, when I knew getting to the evening service at our church would be difficult for me due to family schedules and obligations, I’ve gone to the lunchtime Eucharist at the Episcopal church a block from my office.
It seems Right and Proper to hold at least one (said) service on Ash Wednesday, but would the sky fall in, or would we have to spend an extra million years in Purgatory, if we did away with Ash Wednesday, and had all the stuff with ashes on the following Sunday?
Which sort of underlines my point - is Ash Wednesday really necessary? I agree that, with having it on a weekday, more opportunities to attend church/be ashed are possible, even if one attends a church other than one's own - the more, the merrier!
Several years ago I filled in on Lent I for an ill colleague at a neighboring parish. He'd planned the full penitential rite as the entrance rite. I thought it odd, but it actually seemed a smoother flow, and allowed more people to participate. Ashes were not included, but were optional after the postlude for those who must have them. I've encouraged the Lay Reader at the parish I serve twice a month to give that a try -- penitential rite, readings, comment on lessons, prayers and dismissal.
In all fairness, we do try to avoid clashing with each other as to various services and events, but ISTM that there is scope for Our Place, along with the four other local C of E parishes, to do something similar to what @Darda describes. We have a long-established, but now rather tired, tradition of joint evening worship on the Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, of Holy Week, but, frankly, this only really results in peeps being 'churched out' by Maundy Thursday!
I can feel a real and strong value in that -- the echo of 40 and 40 and 40 again links us with both of those events. So our journey in the spirit may resonate with that freedom from bondage, and Jesus' temptation to a different bondage. But, IMHO it takes well prepared preaching and careful education to make that resonance really sing in the life of the congregation. That thought that "their journey is my journey" has real power, and offers hope. But, seldom have I heard that preaching or education, or provided it myself, (mea culpa) to create that resonance for the people I walk with. And so "why 40 days" becomes a valid question, as Bishops Finger notes.
Totally agree. with what I have extracted from your post and add Moses' 40 days on the mountain.
Back a few posts, St Sanity will have 3 services with ashing - early morning, midday and then evening. The midday will cater for those working nearby. Not many at the early morning, a reasonable number at midday and varying numbers in the evening. As the forecast is for thunderstorms later in the day, probably not that many this year for the evening service.
Us wee piskies are authorised to move the imposition of ashes to the Sunday (or indeed any of the intervening days) under the new "experimental" rites. There is also provision for ashing to be conducted by a lay person in the context of a service of the word. Both provisions reflect the fact that in much of Scotland the distances required for priests to travel between congregations make the timing of Eucharistic worship a matter of flexibility.
https://www.scotland.anglican.org/wp-content/uploads/A-Rite-for-the-Beginning-of-Lent-B.pdf
We had a service of Healing and Reconciliation tonight, which was a bit of an innovation, and Mr Dragon informs me it went quite well. (It was then followed by pancakes.) I was at home with the Dragonlets.
Frs Duck and Duckling will be at the railway station (which is in the parish) tomorrow from about 7.30 to offer ashes to anyone who wants them when they are passing through.
I'm not sure what the other Anglo-Catholic parishes locally are doing: there may be a morning service, but atm we have the problem that St Quack's is the only one with an Incumbent, so it involves getting the local retired clergy to come out. (And none of them are really doable on public transport from us.) Checking the websites of the various local churches informs me that I am basically out of luck on suitable service options, as they're all either in the evening or clash with work.
We do (Western Orthodox).
It's written into our fasting rule. The fast is not kept on Sunday as this is always a celebration of the Resurrection. Therefore, it's a feast day and never a fast day. Those intending to receive Holy Communion still keep the customary fast, of course, but only up to the point of receiving. Otherwise, Sundays are not kept as a day of fasting.
The rule of abstinence is also slightly relaxed on the Sundays of Lent. So fish and wine may be taken. Otherwise, meat, poultry, and dairy are still avoided.
That way, the lenten discipline isn't abandoned altogether but neither is the weekly celebration of the Resurrection of the Lord disregarded. It's all about balance.
As I understand it, the kits include ashes and age-appropriate activities and prayers.
And @Robert Armin, yes, depending on the particular discipline I’ve chosen some years, I have given myself a break on Sundays. But not all years.
We won't be as we don't have our own building and are rather restricted by concerns other than liturgical correctness at the moment.
So we didn't do Vespers this evening. Instead, we incorporated some elements of this evenings propers into Vespers last Saturday evening for Quinquagesima, most notably, the mournful Ecclesiastical Psalm bidding farewell to the alleluia:
The use of Psalm 136 in this way sung to znamenny chant is astoundingly moving. I can happily send it to anyone who'd like it.
Then, we closed with:
This coming Saturday evening, we'll have Vespers for the First Sunday of Lent, followed by the rite of Mutual Forgiveness and the imposition of Ashes. Then, after a lenten supper together, we'll close with Compline.
That's not a facetious question!
As for breaking your fast on Sundays, if I've given up something like chocolate or alcohol, having a bit makes it harder to go back on the wagon, as it were. But maybe that's only me.
Those of us in Byzantine Rite Orthodoxy have a whole week to eat pancakes before the start of Lent.
Even if someone in the congregation doesn't realize the 40-day connection, there are two other symbols that IMHO would be distorted by having the start of Lent on Sunday:
1. The nature of Sunday as a celebration of the Resurrection. It seems "off" to me that we would start a period of self-reflection & penance on the day of the week that should be the least self-focused & the most joyous. Sunday is about thinking of what Jesus' victory over death did for us despite our failings, not fretting over those failings (as much as that has its place for a conscientious person).
2. Part of Lent is about getting out of any "ruts" of sin or complacency that we tend to naturally fall into in our lives. Starting that journey by going to church on a day that is not the "typical church day" is a good way to start that "snapping out of it." Offering a service on Not-Sunday also gives parishioners the chance to make any inconvenience they might suffer as a result of the irregular time their first ascetic offering of the season.
1) be taking part in Ashes to Go
2) be at an informal Eucharist where I may well be ashed
3) be at a sung mass where I will be ashed.
The 'Ashes to Go' is an experiment by the Chaplaincy to see whether taking Ashing in the public space engages us with people who probably would otherwise not even guess that the Chaplaincy existed.
Excellent points, both. Thank you!
Our ashes are sprinkled on the head, in keeping with the rubrics. (I understand anecdotally this is the majority practice in most of the non-anglophone world too, although I'm happy to be corrected.) It's in the act of receiving the ash that we have our minds moved to penitence. The ash then simply falls off or blows away, which serves as a further reminder of our mortality, in keeping with the words used at the imposition.
Where does the practice come from of leaving a lasting mark on the face, and moreover of mixing the ash with oil or some other substance in order to facilitate this?
I like the idea of sprinkling the ashes on the head, which I too understand to be the practice in most of the world.
Yes, the paradox mentioned by @PDR struck me too! I wipe the oily ash off asap, although today I waited until I got home, having put on my Cap in the meantime. The oily ash is now on the inside of my Cap.
It sometimes strikes people as odd, too, that the Ash Wednesday Gospel is NOT the bit about Our Lord's sojourn in the wilderness...
A straightforward said Eucharist with Ashing at the Cathedral today, with about 30 present (which may sound a bit thin, but filled the Lady Chapel nicely). It was quite refreshing, in a way, to attend a service where I didn't have to do anything, except receive what Our Lord was giving me.
Nice one!
Had the Cathedral been so minded as to provide such facilities, I would not now have an oily patch in my Cap...
FatherInCharge does take the trouble to ask people to keep any Lenten discipline they may decide upon between themselves and God, in line with Our Lord's instructions.
One or two people will, I know, nevertheless go out of their way to proclaim that they have given up CHOCOLATE (or whatever). If asked what I'm giving up for Lent, I put on a serious expression, and piously reply that I have given up asking people what they're giving up for Lent...
Absolutely. These days, when I'm not in parish ministry but an " 'ead office" job, I find it even more powerful to change the routine, take myself off to an ir- or less regular liturgical event, to have no control over the liturgy, and to be touched by God in whatever eventuates. My eccentric local church was attended by the normal tiny gaggle of people, not many wise, not many noble (not many at all - we are a dozen or so most Sundays and were about 2/3rds of that) we were ashed, made eucharist, and my heart was strangely warmed.
[edited to add: and yes, I have long believed the ashes should be removed as we go out into the world. I have never added oil - dunno if they did last night. But I removed them. And by telling you that I have already broken the spirit of Jesus' saying, for I have advertised my spiritual practices