Celebrity Death Pool - thumbs up or down?

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Comments

  • I remain intrigued by this difference. Why are many of you comfortable with speculating about the deaths of strangers, but not about Shipmates? When does someone stop being my neighbour?

    Well, I'd sort of quit this argument, but since you're asking...

    In the theological sense, nobody stops being a neighbor ever. In the practical sense, the more likely someone is to be affected (or even notice!) something I do, the more necessary it is for me to walk carefully, for the sake of kindness. So if we were running a death pool in the presence and notice of people featured IN the death pool, I would be concerned about anyone among them who might be disturbed by it--and would therefore refrain. Not because the death pool is innately evil, and not because it is innately a sin to participate. Only because if it bugs you (O person-featured-in-the-death-pool), it bugs you, and I prefer not to cause you angst for the sake of a game.

    However (and this is the big however)--

    In my judgment, the chances of the actual existing death pool coming to the attention of any of the people named in it is vanishingly unlikely (they're big names, after all, and who are we?!). The chances of them being actually disturbed by it are even lower. And I have no doubt whatsoever that if any one of them actually showed up on the thread in question and complained, that we would all of us voluntarily refrain from ever mentioning that person again in the game. In fact, it would probably shut down the death pool altogether, because it would indicate that someone had actually noticed--and people here are mostly kind.

    So it comes down to a judgment call. On balance, I (and you did ask for opinions!) think it better to allow people to have their pleasure, even if it's slightly grim, than to forbid them to do anything that might under some remote contingency disturb some remote person somewhere. Because really, you could argue that half the things we do and say here should be outlawed on the same cause. Nobody is responsible for preventing every human being's possible offense under every circumstance; we are only responsible for using good sense about likely cases.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate

    In the theological sense, nobody stops being a neighbor ever. In the practical sense, the more likely someone is to be affected (or even notice!) something I do, the more necessary it is for me to walk carefully, for the sake of kindness.

    Or as it was put by Lord Atkin, in one of the great judgments of the House of Lords (working as the ultimate court of appeal for the UK):

    Who, then, in law, is my neighbour? The answer seems to be – persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as being so affected when I am directing my mind to the acts or omissions which are called in question.
  • I suppose it's no good my revealing that I am really Princess Di, hiding from the press all these years?
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    .
  • I suppose the death pool also allows for "Good Riddance" and "so young" comments - specifically about those who would have scored us highly.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    fineline wrote: »
    ... My observations of the 'Celebrity Deathpool' threads in recent years is they are now used more to comment on, and express sadness about, the death of a celebrity - a way of marking their death, and their life ... I will go to this thread when I hear of a celebrity's death, to see what people have written, to feel the shared loss ...
    I couldn't have put my thoughts better than that, Fineline.

    One of the reasons I'm OK with CDP is that, as others have said, the chances of any of the celebs coming across it are vanishingly slim; but I find the idea of a death-pool where the people concerned are part of the community that reads it tasteless in the extreme.
  • Piglet wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    ... My observations of the 'Celebrity Deathpool' threads in recent years is they are now used more to comment on, and express sadness about, the death of a celebrity - a way of marking their death, and their life ... I will go to this thread when I hear of a celebrity's death, to see what people have written, to feel the shared loss ...
    I couldn't have put my thoughts better than that, Fineline.

    One of the reasons I'm OK with CDP is that, as others have said, the chances of any of the celebs coming across it are vanishingly slim; but I find the idea of a death-pool where the people concerned are part of the community that reads it tasteless in the extreme.
    It is not just the celebrities themselves, it can be people who knew them. I have known a few and as I recall, I am not the only one.
    But the press, and the inevitable comment section spew, are a larger issue.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    It is not just the celebrities themselves, it can be people who knew them. I have known a few and as I recall, I am not the only one.
    But the press, and the inevitable comment section spew, are a larger issue.

    I'm pretty sure that, by definition, celebrity deaths will be commented on, in the press and elsewhere. This will be true regardless of what position the Ship takes on the issue.
  • That is what I thought I said. In the general scheme of things, SOF is insignificant.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    I suppose it's no good my revealing that I am really Princess Di, hiding from the press all these years?

    I suspected as much all along, Robert. Your avatar reminds me of the time she danced with the Royal Ballet.

    Thumbs down for me. We may have threads that are silly, irreverent or ridiculous. We may fight among ourselves in Hell or rip apart the deserving famous, but we're rarely deliberately mean. It's been years since anyone here told me to, "F-off and die." (What happened to Spiffy?)

    So whether any famous person comes along and catches us at it, or whether or not Erin liked it, I think it's unworthy of us.
  • I typically click on the Celebrity Death Thread to see who it is that’s died, not because I play the game. (I don’t.)

    But I have to say this recent post in the thread made me wince enough that I thought it worth bumping this thread.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I typically click on the Celebrity Death Thread to see who it is that’s died, not because I play the game. (I don’t.)

    But I have to say this recent post in the thread made me wince enough that I thought it worth bumping this thread.

    Argh - who are the Circus hosts? I agree that this is unacceptable, but want to raise it with the hosts, not here.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I typically click on the Celebrity Death Thread to see who it is that’s died, not because I play the game. (I don’t.)

    But I have to say this recent post in the thread made me wince enough that I thought it worth bumping this thread.

    Argh - who are the Circus hosts? I agree that this is unacceptable, but want to raise it with the hosts, not here.
    it is a game about people dying. I'm not sure that the post in question bends taste to a significant degree.
    Not seeing a difference between the common "Yea. they died so I got points" and this "I wish they'd die so I can get points"

  • Twilight wrote: »
    What happened to Spiffy?

    I talked to Spiffy either last week or the week before, and she was alive and well.
  • BakerBaker Shipmate
    As the person currently running the DeathPool, here is how I look at it.

    To give some background, I manage three DP's, and play in two others. I've never felt oogy about it, because if I was an eligible celebrity, I'd be happy that people remembered me.

    You know, I somehow didn't know that Shipmates were considered fair game.

    That's something that can be changed. In the other DP's I play members of the board where it appears are specifically excluded. As are minors. Also, if a person on death row dies by legal execution, they don't give points. I remember when Saddam Hussein was hung, and when Timothy McVeigh died by lethal injection, the people who selected them didn't get the points. Now, if they'd been murdered by a fellow prisoner, that would have been a different story.

    Also, even if a player or board member was IRL someone famous, as a fellow member they could not be picked, if their status IRL was known.

    I would recommend that folks who are uncomfortable with the game simply ignore it. I've seen subjects on this board that made me a tad uncomfortable, so I simply don't comment on them.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Baker wrote: »
    You know, I somehow didn't know that Shipmates were considered fair game.

    Are they? I suppose if they're "well-known" they could be. The first rule says to pick 13 well-known people, and the second rule defines "well-known":
    2. The definition of "well-known" is that their deaths will be reported by at least one major news outlet. Examples outlets include (but are not limited to) The Guardian, CNN, IMDB, VeloNews, The Beano, The Austin Chronicle, and the Church Times.
  • I believe an ex-shipmate who got a newspaper obit was mentioned by their bereaved spouse, though that might have been in the Goodbye's thread.
  • We often have threads in AS to mark the passing of Shipmates, past and present, which get moved to Glory when a decent period of time for people to have their say has passed. Also, obituary threads for other significant public figures, or a more general RIP thread. There are no lack of opportunities for those who don't play the Death Pool game to mark the passing of others.
  • Just don't place bets on me. Or Rossweisse. I won't be amused.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Thank you, @Robert Armin.
  • I'll set the orneries on anyone who tries it!
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    edited August 2020
    I agree with Robert Armin and Rossweisse that Shipmates (whether or not we know who they are in RL) should be explicitly excluded as Death Pool candidates. I see Shippies as friends, and I'd be very uncomfortable about speculating on their demise.
    I believe an ex-shipmate who got a newspaper obit was mentioned by their bereaved spouse, though that might have been in the Goodbye's thread.
    I think that was David, and it was mentioned on the British thread. I don't think he'd have counted as a celebrity though - you could have knocked me over with a feather when I heard about the Torygraph obit.
  • As far as I am aware noone participating in the thread has ever suggested including a shipmate - unless I have missed something ?
  • As far as I am aware noone participating in the thread has ever suggested including a shipmate - unless I have missed something ?
    The idea was discussed in the OP of this thread.

  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Yes, by someone who is anti the concept of the thread and therefore doesn’t participate in it. I don’t think anyone has ever suggested or tried to include a shipmate in their pool in the last 15 years I’ve been on the ship - why do we suddenly have an urgent concern that this is likely to happen ?

    (Sorry I realise my reference to the thread was ambiguous, I meant no one on the circus thread, to my knowledge, has ever done this.)
  • I don't think we do. I think it is just an unfortunate series of tangents.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    As far as I am aware noone participating in the thread has ever suggested including a shipmate - unless I have missed something ?
    The idea was discussed in the OP of this thread.

    Ah, that was probably me then. Apologies if I've spread gloom and despair. I used Shipmates as an example, assuming we would all find the idea horrendous. Personally I find it equally horrendous to speculate about the rest of the population, but I accept not everyone sees the world as I do.
  • As far as I am aware noone participating in the thread has ever suggested including a shipmate - unless I have missed something ?

    I don't believe a shipmate has ever been included. I can think of at least one shipmate (sadly no longer a frequent poster) whose RL identity is known to most of us, and who would expect to find his obituary in the national press (and so be a qualified runner, under the current rules.) Fortunately, I believe him to be in robust health...
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Piglet wrote: »
    I think that was David

    #2 is gone?!
    Well, fuck me.
  • NicoleMR wrote: »
    I've never been in favor of it. I think it's crass.

    Thank you! I have always hated it, as well.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    I'll confess to some confusion here. Are we actually talking about deep-sixing a thread because some posters disapprove of it (which is an altogether different issue from avoiding discussions capable of getting the Ship into legal hot water)?

    The thread could be seen as crass, even offensive; I get that and can see why some might object to the existence of the thread itself, but then I can see why people might object to many more threads than this on this site. Thing is, though, participation or skimming or even skipping anything whatever on this site is entirely voluntary and up to individual users, every syllable. What's wrong with leaving things as they are? Those who dislike / disapprove of the thread, its content, its existence (take your pick) are perfectly free, as they've always been, to steer clear of it.

    Very true! And...having thought about it for a few minutes more, there are some threads which I find pointless but are quite popular. Who died and put me in charge of deciding the fate of a long running and popular thread? I have just as much power in my little fingers to scroll past threads that do not interest me and no one would be the wiser.

  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    RooK wrote: »
    Piglet wrote: »
    I think that was David

    #2 is gone?!
    Well, fuck me.

    Sorry, RooK - I think we might be at cross-purposes. I was referring to my late husband, who was on the Old Ship as daviddrinkell, and who died last year. As he posted under his own name, I've referred to him as "David" since he died.
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