Church Covid-19 workarounds

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  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    https://saintmarks.org/worship/live-stream/

    Link to St Mark's Cathedral, Seattle who are livestreaming Compline at 9.30pm on Sundays from the Nave of the cathedral.
    I just watched and it was very moving to hear Psalm 91 and the Tallis (Lamentations of Jeremaiah). Then to see them recessing out through all that emptiness.

    (Insane to pray Compline at 6.30am but...)
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7E-LYc1wivk33iyt5bR5zQ

    Vatican News channel on YouTube have the Daily Mass celebrated by Pope Francis from Casa Santa Marta and the Angelus (Angeluses, Angeli) as well
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    Galilit wrote: »

    Oh thanks so much, Galilit! I'm busy putting together a list of online Catholic resources for those housebound in our local faith communities.
  • Thanks @Galilit!

    Yes, it seems odd to pray Compline at silly o'clock in the morning, but I'm sure Our Lord and His Blessed Mother understand...
    :wink:
  • Most of our congregation may well be choosing to self-isolate quite soon, because of age and medical condition. Or at least choose attending church as one of those things to refrain from in order to reduce contact with others; for all the (slightly) younger among us might continue to meet for worship.

    After service on Sunday we began to form a rough plan to keep in phone contact with possible self-isolators, offering grocery drops, and also reassuring those who might run out of cash, or are worried about money to get what they need, can be subbed by church funds. I'm currently drawing up a list of regular attenders, and we'll mailshot them to say we can be used as a potential contact for help, if possible. Most, of course, have grown up children or good neighbours, but some don't or are geographically distant from their next of kin.
  • AngusAngus Shipmate Posts: 34
    The Angel admonished the recluse: "Seest thou this toilet paper? Thou shalt not hoard it, nor any like unto it! Nor shall ye Hyde it in any barns or stores! Nor secrete away it or any kind like it in barren places nor under big stones!

    Recluse: "Nay, but mayhaps I shall wax diarrhoeal, having thereby great need of it."

    Angel: "Though fool, that is not even a symptom! Do thou better henceforth,".......
  • We are doing much the same thing, though (as I've said before) we don't have very many older people. There are others, such as myself, with ongoing health issues, but so far, so good. There does seem to be, as I have said, a fairly cheerful atmosphere of 'let's get on with it, and do the best we can'.

    Meanwhile, IF we continue to hold services, they may have to be mostly A Service Of The Word (no Communion) conducted by me*, or by our younger churchwarden, or by a Reader from another church.

    There won't be quite enough clergy to go round, if the over-70 retired PTOs have to be put under house-arrest, so each of our Deanery's parishes (most of which are MOTR, with Parish Eucharist most Sundays) may need to have just one Sunday Eucharist each month.

    *assuming that my own Elf is spared - but who can tell? We may ALL be Laid Low On A Bed of Sickness™ soon...
  • Galilit wrote: »
    https://saintmarks.org/worship/live-stream/

    Link to St Mark's Cathedral, Seattle who are livestreaming Compline at 9.30pm on Sundays from the Nave of the cathedral.
    I just watched and it was very moving to hear Psalm 91 and the Tallis (Lamentations of Jeremaiah). Then to see them recessing out through all that emptiness.

    (Insane to pray Compline at 6.30am but...)

    St. Mark's has been livestreaming audio of their Sunday evening Compline for decades. It's beautiful on the radio, even more so in person.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    Yes, I've been listening regularly for a few years
  • Looks like the island is going Full Madagascar, so suspending services is now on the cards.
  • Not quite sure what you mean by 'Full Madagascar' - Googling comes up with some sort of animated film for kiddies - but I hope you DON'T have to have services suspended.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    @Bishops Finger: Shut Down Everything. Which is about to become reality here by all accounts.
  • After discussion yesterday, our place now has a plan A and a plan B ... hoping we don't need to consider plan C.

    Plan A: continue as close to normal as possible, which means: asking those who don't feel well to stay home, no handshaking, asking people to wash hands as they enter the building and leave afterwards, no common cup for communion, no passing of collection plate or plate/tray for communion down the line of chairs (which also means more space between chairs to allow the server, me, to hold the plate/tray where congregants can take the elements), wiping down the plastic covered hymn books (and not using those without covers).

    Plan B: if the advice is for those over 70 to remain at home then the three congregations will hold a single service primarily for the younger members (which would be about a dozen) at our place (it's the building that takes least energy to heat, and has toilets for hand washing conveniently at the front door), keeping all the measures above in place.

    Plan C would be needed if several of the elders and/or the minister come down with covid-19 such that we struggle to have anyone lead worship at all.

    No plan needed if the government tell us we can't meet at all. We wish each other well (without shaking hands) and hope to see each other sometime after the emergency has passed. And, keep in touch by phone with all our members - only about a third of whom have email.
  • Not quite sure what you mean by 'Full Madagascar' - Googling comes up with some sort of animated film for kiddies - but I hope you DON'T have to have services suspended.

    It's a reference to the computer game Pandemic and its derivative, the goal of which is to infect the entire world with your carefully designed pathogen. Many attempts are thwarted by Madagascar, which in-game is connected to the rest of the world via a single sea port, which seemingly gets shutdown very quickly. This has led to the following meme (in various forms):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j7JGlMCy1o
    This has led to many nerds, including myself, referring to the widescale shutdown of a local area or country as going "Full Madagascar"
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Eutychus wrote: »
    @Bishops Finger: Shut Down Everything. Which is about to become reality here by all accounts.

    Thanks @Eutychus - but sorry to hear it, anyway.
    After discussion yesterday, our place now has a plan A and a plan B ... hoping we don't need to consider plan C.

    Plan A: continue as close to normal as possible, which means: asking those who don't feel well to stay home, no handshaking, asking people to wash hands as they enter the building and leave afterwards, no common cup for communion, no passing of collection plate or plate/tray for communion down the line of chairs (which also means more space between chairs to allow the server, me, to hold the plate/tray where congregants can take the elements), wiping down the plastic covered hymn books (and not using those without covers).

    Plan B: if the advice is for those over 70 to remain at home then the three congregations will hold a single service primarily for the younger members (which would be about a dozen) at our place (it's the building that takes least energy to heat, and has toilets for hand washing conveniently at the front door), keeping all the measures above in place.

    Plan C would be needed if several of the elders and/or the minister come down with covid-19 such that we struggle to have anyone lead worship at all.

    No plan needed if the government tell us we can't meet at all. We wish each other well (without shaking hands) and hope to see each other sometime after the emergency has passed. And, keep in touch by phone with all our members - only about a third of whom have email.

    Plan A for us to date (as of today, this still stands, as far as the C of E is concerned).

    Plan B is to continue as per Plan B, but minus our older folks, or those reluctant to come to church (and who will be ministered to/kept in the loop by other means).

    Plan C is to hold Services Of The Word, probably without Communion, using whatever resources we can muster locally (priests to celebrate the Eucharist might be in short supply!).

    Plan D is to close down altogether, BUT ONLY IF INSTRUCTED SO TO DO, and to keep in touch as well as we can by phone, email, Facebook, website etc.

    I feel a deep reluctance for Plan D, but, if it is inevitable, will have to comply - not for my own sake, but for that of others.
    :disappointed:
  • Our plan B may include no communion; our congregation has a tradition of weekly communion, hence we're doing what we can to maintain that (even if it means ditching for a while the tradition of the common cup), whereas both of the other congregations have a tradition of only having communion once a month. If we need plan B then most of the gathered congregation (possibly I'd be the only exception) wouldn't be from a tradition of always celebrating communion when we meet - and, it may be simplest just to not celebrate communion. We would probably have someone to preside if we continued to have communion, in addition to the minister there's a retired minister (who probably wouldn't be present under plan B as he's over 70) and at least two Elders over 70 years of age authorised to preside (with other Elders slightly older).
  • IF services continue, I think we all - from whatever tradition - may have to accept some changes in practice.

    This will be more difficult for some than for others, of course, and may well lead to more far-reaching changes in the future, once the crisis is past (and assuming our churches survive in some form or another).
  • How are folk interpreting the latest government guidance to avoid social interaction and non-essential travel?
  • DooneDoone Shipmate
    Z
    How are folk interpreting the latest government guidance to avoid social interaction and non-essential travel?

    Very good question! It’s very vague really, as people will interpret it in many different ways I suspect.
  • How are folk interpreting the latest government guidance to avoid social interaction and non-essential travel?

    In terms of church and worship life, I now await the advice from the Episcopal authorities.
  • As do we. I anticipate the cancellation of Holy Week and Easter...
    :grimace:
  • BTW, an email just received from FatherInCharge tells me that he is cancelling our Lent Study Group meetings (Tuesday evenings after Mass), mainly because the retired priest leading the Group has decided to restrict his movements (very sensible).

    FInC now awaits any further direction from Head Office...
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Small groups are as if not more dangerous than people scattered in pews.
  • Just so.

    I am wondering if FInC will now consider cancelling the Friday evening Stations of the Cross - the logistics here mean that a small group has to gather quite closely together, in order to actually see the Stations (rather small Edwardian framed prints a-hanging on the aisle walls).
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    My advice is to get used to what is soon going to be compulsory.
  • You're probably right - and I may have to do so sooner than expected.

    Latest government guidance advises peeps on steroids (in my case, twice-daily hydrocortisone) to practice as much social distancing as possible, even if we're under 70.
    :grimace:
  • https://gov.scot/news/people-advised-to-limit-social-contact/ The First Minister appears to have specified 'religious gatherings' as social contact for the general public to 'avoid'. Advisedly.

    Presumably the College of Bishops are now drafting their response and guidance for clergy and congregations.

  • Nothing new from the C of E yet (I've just checked), but I think we'll probably be closing down within the next day or so.

    I'll have a look at the websites of our neighbouring parishes, but it does look as though very little will be available in the way of church services for the next few weeks...
    :disappointed:
  • BTW, the English government's advice doesn't seem to specifically mention 'religious' gatherings, unless I've missed something.

    The Scottish government's point still applies, though.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Here's the "guidance" from the RC bishops of England and Wales
    1. It is likely you will need to suspend distribution under both kinds (the host to be given on the hand only).
    a. When giving communion in the hand seek to ensure you place the host in the hand of the recipient in such a way that you do not touch their hands.
    2. Suspend the physical sign of peace
    3. Remove holy water stoups
    4. Public veneration of relics and the Cross on Good Friday should NOT be by kissing or physically touching them
    5. Advise those most vulnerable (elderly, people with weakened immune systems and long term conditions like cancer, diabetes and heart disease) to refrain from large parish gatherings and stay at home.
    6. Cease use of shared hymn books and missals which could help transmit the virus
    7. Ask everyone attending Mass to sanitise their hands as they come into church using sanitized gel dispensers (make these available in porches or entrances).
    8. Ensure everyone maintains good hygiene especially at Mass and parish gatherings

    Our Holy Week planning meeting was cancelled - the PP thinks we will close within a week or two.
  • Pretty well what our Head Office is advising, too.

    No word yet, though, as to whether we ought to shut up shop or not - given our small numbers, it may be OK for those not self-isolating to continue to meet, but taking all the precautions required.

    A neighbouring parish has had to close its Wednesday 'Place of Welcome', which is understandable, but means that they can't minister at first hand to the vulnerable and lonely people who have been using the facility. AIUI they are busily working on ways of keeping in touch by means of 'Place of Welcome Mark 2'...
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    I would really advise y'all to get ahead of the curve. The rate of spread is exponential. Every day you keep being in contact with people is potentially increasing the spread through the congregation exponentially.
  • Advice from the Church of Scotland is due again today. Yesterday's advice was out of date by the time it was sent. I lay in bed and thought of my congregations. One of them, and it is quite lively, has only 1 regular attendee who is not over 70 or otherwise needing to keep away. Meanwhile the 91 year old beadle is saying "What's for you will no go past you" which is so very unhelpful and untheological. But short of ordering her to say home (in sheltered housing, where she could infect many others) my only other option is to close the church for worship. Not for personal prayer - indeed I am even now going to put in the first of a series of devotionals to help people to that end. It would be nice of someone took the decision about worship for me...
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    My experience is that institutional decisions are taking too long to arrive. Individual leadership right now is having the agility and courage to do the right thing even when it goes against the grain of so much we value.
  • The SEC has suspended all activities that involve people meeting together, including all public worship, house groups and meetings.

    The Church of Scotland has yet to announce its new advice, but consensus is building locally for suspension.
  • I daresay the C of E will follow the SEC soon - as of 1030am today, they were 'examining the latest advice from the Government and Public Health England', prior to the next update.

    @Eutychus - I hear what you say, and I fear that you are right. It really, really, does go against the grain to close down, but it may well be the best thing to do.

    I have to wait to see what FatherInCharge decides, as it's not up to me, but I'm sure it will be possible for the church to be kept open for an hour each day, in case anyone wants to come in for private prayer. We have suitable devotional material available, as @Cathscats suggests.

    Kyrie eleison.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    I'm sure it will be possible for the church to be kept open for an hour each day, in case anyone wants to come in for private prayer.

    This was possible here as of Sunday, and is no longer possible as of midday today.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Well, yes - the same may happen here, of course, in which case we will have to go with the flow.
    :disappointed:

    TBTG for the Electric Interweb Thingy!
  • For those who have access to the Electric Interweb Thingy.

    Most of our congregation don't, and rely on seeing people for all social interaction - including, of course, on Sunday morning as we gather for worship.
  • Pseudo OrganistPseudo Organist Shipmate Posts: 34
    We have a very small congregation of only about 15 people. Nearly all our people are over the age of 70 with 3 people, including one our retired priests, in their late 80’s.
    I was surprised to see so many of them turn out this morning for Stations of the Cross and Mass but I think the time has come to meet less frequently. Our elderly congregation have been so faithful even turning out in full during the recent storms.

    Things may change when the C of E gives us further guidelines, but this morning we have made the decision to stop all midweek services but to try to continue with our Sunday Parish Mass if possible. We have quite a large Victorian building for only 12-15 in the congregation and so the congregation will be instructed to spread out and distance themselves from others. Quite ironic when we have managed to persuade them in recent years to all sit together in the front pews!

    We haven’t had a priest of our own for many years and our 4 retired priests, who take services are all over 75 so we must care for our clergy too. We have already decided that Holy Week services may have to be cancelled or drastically changed.
  • Alas, all public worship is to be suspended. This from the C of E at 130pm or thereabouts today:

    In light of the Government guidance around non-essential contact, the Archbishops of Canterbury and York have issued advice that public worship is suspended until further notice.

    Churches should be open where possible but with no public worship services taking place.


    It remains to be seen, of course, for how long this will last, but I rather fear Holy Week and Easter services will not now take place.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    BTW, the English government's advice doesn't seem to specifically mention 'religious' gatherings, unless I've missed something.
    You have. A question about religious activities was raised in the House after yesterday's statement, and the Health Minister was perfectly clear.

    I have to say that the Baptist Union had updated their advice, with some practical ideas, by 9 o'clock this morning. I also had an email from our local Association (=Diocese) by 10 o'clock. The BU say they will constantly update it during the day, but I haven't checked.

  • An academic point, now that the C of E has suspended public worship - I'm afraid I haven't been following what's been going on in Parliament.
    Enough is enough, IYSWIM

    Does the same suspension of public worship apply to the Church In Wales, BTW?

    I guess that the Baptist Union will follow suit - I can't envisage any mainline denominations daring to oppose the government...

    O well - I probably won't now have to worry about preaching on Palm Sunday (it's my turn), or organising a joint Taize-style service in Holy Week.
  • Everyone can stream here now with a cellphone. SaskTel (a Crown corporation, meaning government owned and run) has removed all data restrictions for all cellphones in the province without extra cost to whatever phone plan you've got. I imagine that everything will move online. They did this I understand because schools, universities and others have all closed and gone to online. It's nice to have non-private telecommunications. SaskTel also openned up a bunch of TV channels that are subscription and cost to free.
  • The SEC has suspended all activities that involve people meeting together, including all public worship, house groups and meetings.

    The Church of Scotland has yet to announce its new advice, but consensus is building locally for suspension.

    The SEC has also said we may open churches for people to use for prayer, observing hygiene-related restrictions, and of course social distancing. One colleague puts that at one person per row, a row apart, should more than one or two come into the building at once.

    Naturally, keeping the building open - if only for a few hours for the odd person to wander in and out of - is attractive to me. But even if providing wipes and issuing instructions about touch and distancing, it still seems like an invitation to gather. I don't think I've ever felt quite so double-minded about what to do before.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Yes - this. I'm still waiting to hear from FatherInCharge as to what he wants to do about this issue, if it remains an option.

    I doubt if we'd ever get more than one or two, at the most, dropping in for prayer at any one time, but...

    I suppose that if (say) I was to get up, and announce to the one or two in church (at the authorised distance) that we could now say The Lord's Prayer together, that would amount to an 'act of public worship'...
    :flushed:

    Not that I mind committing a crime, or a subversive act, In The Name Of The Lord And His Blessed Mother, but there's not just me to consider.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    BTW, I'm still waiting for an update from our Diocesan Office...

    Meanwhile, our local char-evo parish has announced on its website that ALL services, meetings, and groups (their name is Legion) are suspended. They are, however, working on keeping going via the Electric Interweb, as there are quite a few geekstech-savvy types in their congregation.

    Other local church websites OTOH seem not to have noticed that there's anything amiss...
    :flushed:

    The Cathedral has announced, however, that it is closed until further notice. I suspect they have not had to do this since it was founded in AD604.
  • The Church of Scotland has joined the party now and recommended all gatherings for worship be cancelled.
  • I guess that the Baptist Union will follow suit.
    They got in early this morning and have posted several useful updates since. Of course, the BU can't actually tell any church what to do, but they can advise that Sunday services "should not now take place".

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