Church Covid-19 workarounds

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  • This advice just in from the presbytery: "Follow Pontius Pilate's example, and wash your hands".
  • Heh.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Other local church websites OTOH seem not to have noticed that there's anything amiss...
    :flushed:

    Quite a few local churches here did not have up to date information on their websites. I lament the lack of local inter-church communication.

    We're trying to coordinate an interfaith prison chaplaincy response locally. I've discovered that agreeing on which platform to use (Zoom, Skype, Facebook, WhatsApp...) is about as hard, and divisive, as agreeing on the meaning of Communion.
  • I guess that the Baptist Union will follow suit.
    They got in early this morning and have posted several useful updates since. Of course, the BU can't actually tell any church what to do, but they can advise that Sunday services "should not now take place".

    URC is taking the same line as the BU
  • Hmm. I wonder how many churches will (inadvisably) rebel against their denomination's 'guidance'?

    FatherInCharge says he wants to have the church open each day, but, although I applaud his zeal, I think this may not be a Good Idea. If it gets into a settled pattern, people MAY expect some sort of public worship, which Is Not To Be Done.

    Mind you, I doubt if anyone will appear anyway - we have virtually no 'passing trade' - but I would not like to hear of him being hauled off to Jug by the Virus Police...
  • Sty Quack's is working out how to implement the instructions around private prayer and Fr Duck still offering the Eucharist, but services are cancelled. I think that we're about 50/50 on whether the congregation are on line in some form.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    @Pendragon, the Archbishops' letter was somewhat ambiguous as regards the Eucharist.

    I don't think they envisage the Eucharist being celebrated publicly in church (which would run contrary to the guidelines), but clergy can still, I suppose, consecrate 'privately' in order to make sure that enough of the Blessed Sacrament is available for home Communion visits.

    FatherInCharge wants to be in church twice daily - morning and late afternoon - during which time he'll no doubt say his Office, BUT he's 72 later this year, and really should be thinking about self-isolation. If the church is open (say) a couple of times a week, there are others who could be responsible, and who could say their Office if they wished.

    I have entreated Father, very seriously, to get in touch as soon as possible with our Provincial Episcopal Visitor*, and abide by his ruling.

    *Our 'Special Needs' Bishop, as we call him...
    :wink:

    Of course, if we go into complete lockdown, like France, the problem will be solved for us!
    :grimace:
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    I keep saying this, but you should plan that way now. A few days ago, we had the Italian situation on our doorstep, and while I think I was some way ahead of the crowd in terms of behaviours, now I feel thoughtless and lacking in foresight. It's denial. Stop all means of spreading now - and that includes home visits except in extreme circumstances.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    I keep saying this, but you should plan that way now. A few days ago, we had the Italian situation on our doorstep, and while I think I was some way ahead of the crowd in terms of behaviours, now I feel thoughtless and lacking in foresight. It's denial. Stop all means of spreading now - and that includes home visits except in extreme circumstances.

    I think I'm kind of expecting that to be the next thing. I don't see how we can avoid it.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    @Eutychus you are right about denial. I'm sure FatherInCharge is finding it very difficult indeed to get his head round the rapidly-changing situation.

    To be fair to him, he has said that he will now cease home visits (and he's been very punctilious about visiting), unless someone is indeed in extremis...

    Frankly, I wish, in a way (and yes, I know - be careful what you wish for!) that we did have no option but to close the church completely. I won't be surprised if this happens before the weekend, anyhow.

    At least then we could concentrate on simply keeping in touch by whatever means, posting stuff on TwitFace, our website, and so on, without having to worry about possibly infecting one another.

    Not everyone is on the Electric Interweb Thingy, I know, but most of us at Our Place have at least a telephone (and FInC has been collecting phone numbers - with permission - for some days).
  • Anselmina wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    I keep saying this, but you should plan that way now. A few days ago, we had the Italian situation on our doorstep, and while I think I was some way ahead of the crowd in terms of behaviours, now I feel thoughtless and lacking in foresight. It's denial. Stop all means of spreading now - and that includes home visits except in extreme circumstances.

    I think I'm kind of expecting that to be the next thing. I don't see how we can avoid it.

    The BU have already advised Not To except in extreme circumstances
  • Fr Duck is fortunately c40ish, so he doesn't have to worry about blanket social distancing. I suspect most home visits will stop as several are in residential homes anyway.

  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    I think Mystery Worship is about to take on a new dimension.
  • As in MW reviews of various service broadcast options?
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Pendragon wrote: »
    Fr Duck is fortunately c40ish, so he doesn't have to worry about blanket social distancing. I suspect most home visits will stop as several are in residential homes anyway.

    Yes he does. He can spread the virus unawares as well as catch it, especially going from house to house. Pastoral leaders need to be really aware of the pitfall of believing they are "playing the hero" and "living out their calling" when in fact they may be part of the problem. I know this is a real dilemma but beware over-spiritualising the realities here.
  • This.

    Residential/care homes may well refuse access, anyway, except in cases of in extremis. I guess the same applies to hospitals/hospices, and stringent precautions will apply to all.

    For people who are housebound, but not terminally ill (at least with COVID-19), they might have to abstain from Communion for a month or two (perhaps more), so no flitting from house to house with the Sacrament. There are other ways of keeping them in the loop.

    Our Diocesan Bishop is emphasising the need for clergy (and lay ministers) to take good care of their own health, whilst looking out for the pastoral care of their flocks.
  • @Eutychus I was specifically referring to Fr Duck himself not being in one of the groups required to isolate themselves, unlike most retired clergy.

    He's not going to go against the official advice - there's too much to lose falling out with the diocese, let alone accidentally killing off a fair chunk of the congregation. I suspect that for some of our parishioners the congregational network will be invaluable for phone contact with people and ensuring that they can get hold of supplies.
  • I'm having great difficulty in persuading FatherInCharge to go along with the guidelines. He insists on being in church twice a day, every day, to say Morning/Evening Prayer, and also on celebrating the Eucharist (we have St Joseph on this coming Thursday, The Annunciation on Wednesday week), despite the fact that 'public worship' is now a no-no.

    Our Diocesan's latest letter says that a few peeps gathering for prayer is OK, and that this gathering might be 'eucharistic' - which is all very well, but seems to rather go against the idea of suspending public worship! Trouble is, FatherInCharge is over 70, should be self-isolating, and actually got himself thrown out of a hospital ward this afternoon, having somehow breached security.

    If he doesn't calm down, and change his approach, I have told him that I will inform the Archdeacon, and the Bishops, for their attention, and further guidance.
  • The OCA* Archbishop of "The West" (a very large chunk of western continental USA) has shut down all services for at least 2 weeks. Our former church is under his omiphoron, although our new diocese (Greek) isn't faring much better.


    *OCA = Orthodox Church in America, rump of what was the North American arm of the Russian church before the Revolution. It's a long story.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    Last I heard here was that the Governor had gone as far as he can towards forbidding meetings of 50+. If the advice stays the way it is now then we will be having services on Sunday on the same basis as last week, which was:

    1. If you are in a vulnerable group or showing symptoms stay at home.
    2. Space yourselves out.
    3. Wash your hands.
    4. There will be no intinction.
    5. If you are nervous of the chalice, you may receive in one kind.
    6. There will be no coffee time after the service.

    I have no intention of suspending services altogether unless the Commonwealth goes into lock down, though we may not be having the Eucharist if things get real bad.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    This reminds me of two consecutive posts on social media by one of my regional chaplain colleagues. Last week, she posted "isn't all this an over-reaction?". This week she posted the news that one of the chaplains in her region was in a coma with Covid-19. Get with the programme.
  • Much wry laughter at our place at ++Justin's expressed expectation that clergy will "continue" to go into church daily to say offices and celebrate communion. MP said daily at our place by laity but HfD priest conspicuous by his absence.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    I don't know what an HfD priest is but clearly he has got with the programme.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    I don't know what an HfD priest is but clearly he has got with the programme.

    "House for Duty" aka "we want a full time priest, can't afford one, but still expect our priest to work all hours even though they're not getting paid". Given, pro rata, a HfD priest probably should do no more than 20 hours or so a week I'm not entirely surprised that praying the office publicly has fallen off the bottom of what is undoubtedly a long list.
  • We are now shut down. A couple of the organisations using the building may still be meeting, until the advise changes such that they aren't permitted to meet we feel it's not in our remit to tell them to stop - especially as for one of those groups this is his livelihood and so stopping the group will mean no income. Probably they'll find few people coming and will effectively shut down anyway. Those groups who pay us a rent for use of the hall will only pay us if they're using the hall. We've told the cleaner not to come in, but will continue to pay her.

    We'll experiment with stuff and see what sort of on-line "gathering" we might manage on Sunday. We might have bent GDPR, but the minister is providing each of the Elders a list of members and others who have connections to the church including phone numbers with the intent that we'll be calling them a couple of times a week to check up on how they're doing - and, also to do things like read worship material provided online to them (for those without internet access, or who simply want to hear a voice). Previously I've supplied my home phone number as a point of contact, as I'm still going into work I've also supplied my mobile number so I can be contacted at any time.

  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    "House for Duty" aka "we want a full time priest, can't afford one, but still expect our priest to work all hours even though they're not getting paid". Given, pro rata, a HfD priest probably should do no more than 20 hours or so a week I'm not entirely surprised that praying the office publicly has fallen off the bottom of what is undoubtedly a long list.
    Ah. Like the time one of our friends missed "NS" in tiny letters on a Church Times advert to be vicar of the CoE church in Versailles, which turned out on arrival to mean "Non Stipendiary"...

  • We are also shut down, but are permitted a small, family-only funeral next week. It will be a contrast to the three hundred or more we had on Monday at another such service. But wise. And I will spread the family out as well. And sanitise them! No visiting but by phone, no meetings to attend (had a small - no over 70s - Session meeting last night to approve the accounts then left saying "See you sometime") no schools work - they are no longer allowed visitors - my online stuff should get quite polished. And maybe I will write my magnus opus and learn Gaelic.
  • I'm having great difficulty in persuading FatherInCharge to go along with the guidelines. He insists on being in church twice a day, every day, to say Morning/Evening Prayer, and also on celebrating the Eucharist (we have St Joseph on this coming Thursday, The Annunciation on Wednesday week), despite the fact that 'public worship' is now a no-no.

    Our Diocesan's latest letter says that a few peeps gathering for prayer is OK, and that this gathering might be 'eucharistic' - which is all very well, but seems to rather go against the idea of suspending public worship! Trouble is, FatherInCharge is over 70, should be self-isolating, and actually got himself thrown out of a hospital ward this afternoon, having somehow breached security.

    If he doesn't calm down, and change his approach, I have told him that I will inform the Archdeacon, and the Bishops, for their attention, and further guidance.

    He's a danger to everyone including himself. When/if this blows over you may want to question why he flies in the face of reasonable advice to keep yourself and thus others, safe. Do you want a hero as a Minister or a plodder?
  • Or a dead man?
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Well, quite. I can't fault his desire to serve God, and the parish, but he needs (for all our sakes) to quickly 'get with the programme'.

    A live plodder is OK...dead hero? No, thanks.
  • BTW - I've just heard from FatherInCharge. Today is his day off, so he has shut down his computer, and is going off to see an old friend who has heart trouble...! Not the best idea in the world, but hopefully all will be well.

    Tomorrow, he will contact our Bishops (Diocesan, and Episcopal Visitor) for clarification about the issues I have raised.

    Meanwhile, our Treasurer (whose family - she has a husband + two teenagers - is practising 'social distancing') urges FInC to self-isolate, as she likes the idea of being able to occasionally visit church for prayer and reflection, rather than have anything untoward happen to her Vicar.
  • DardaDarda Shipmate
    Our Rector included the following in his email to church members: "I guess it puts us in the same boat as many Christians around the world who can't meet together for worship for various reasons. Maybe this time when we can't gather together will help us understand the pain they feel all the time."
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    FatherInCharge seems to be confused. The real need is safety for his parishioners and his friends.

    Meeting socially is not a priority. For spiritual help he should be educating himself how to do it online and by telephone.

    I agree with you, @Bishops Finger - reporting him will save lives.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    I don't know what an HfD priest is but clearly he has got with the programme.

    House-for-Duty.

    This is an arrangement where a priest, sometimes retired but not exclusively so, is given the parsonage house rent and maintenance free in return for taking services and undertaking other parish duties depending on the individual terms of her/his arrangement with the parish, Archdeacon and Bishop.

    The duties are carried out according to "sessions", each of which is deemed to be of four hours. For example, a HfD priest contracted for 5 sessions at a church with services at 8am and 10am on a Sunday (which counts as one session) is expected to do a further 16 hours of parish work.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    I don't know what an HfD priest is but clearly he has got with the programme.

    "House for Duty" aka "we want a full time priest, can't afford one, but still expect our priest to work all hours even though they're not getting paid". Given, pro rata, a HfD priest probably should do no more than 20 hours or so a week I'm not entirely surprised that praying the office publicly has fallen off the bottom of what is undoubtedly a long list.

    Actually ours does not visit, doesn't do anything with baptism and wedding couples other than book the date, has given responsibility for confirmation preparation to the churchwardens; the churchyard working group manage the graveyard and make all preparations for funerals, and I make all musical decisions for all services. Parishioners who live close to the church, half of whom aren't either churchgoers or on the electoral roll, lock and unlock the building every day and we have a rota of us who say Morning Prayer daily.

    There is a gate at the bottom of the vicarage drive which is firmly closed most of the time.

    Yes, some parishes take advantage of HfD priests but in many cases its the other way round.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Actually ours does not visit, doesn't do anything with baptism and wedding couples other than book the date, has given responsibility for confirmation preparation to the churchwardens; the churchyard working group manage the graveyard and make all preparations for funerals, and I make all musical decisions for all services. Parishioners who live close to the church, half of whom aren't either churchgoers or on the electoral roll, lock and unlock the building every day and we have a rota of us who say Morning Prayer daily.

    You need to rewrite all of that in the past tense, or will need to very soon. You're still not getting this, unlike your HfD, apparently.
  • Future tense. I for one intend for the church to continue beyond this crisis, and for a resurrection of our corporate activities.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Oh I (we) are "getting this" - I was referring to the reality pre Corvid-19.

    As for what we do now, he won't discuss or decide because he doesn't have a session today; and he's taking "off" his scheduled session tomorrow morning because he took a funeral yesterday morning.

    As I said, HfD varies from place to place, depending not just on parish (and I agree that some are unreasonable in their demands and expectations) but on the priest.
  • We are very fortunate, even though we are having to try to restrain our HfD at the moment... :grimace:
    Future tense. I for one intend for the church to continue beyond this crisis, and for a resurrection of our corporate activities.

    This.

    Though there will be changes, no doubt...

  • When Our Lord rose, He could walk down the road having an extensive conversation with two friends who didn't recognise Him until the evening meal.

    The Church could come out of this the same but unrecognisable.
  • When Our Lord rose, He could walk down the road having an extensive conversation with two friends who didn't recognise Him until the evening meal.

    The Church could come out of this the same but unrecognisable.

    Oddly enough, I find that to be an exciting thought.
  • When Our Lord rose, He could walk down the road having an extensive conversation with two friends who didn't recognise Him until the evening meal.

    The Church could come out of this the same but unrecognisable.

    Really hoping for this. If it did it might change my plans to retire before I need to.
  • I'd been working on a sermon for our Joint Pastorate service that should have been next Sunday (we had joint services every 5th Sunday, and that was due to be the spring Synod meeting which the minister would be at) before this all blew up. With the OT being Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones and Gospel the raising of Lazarus, and our Pastorate approaching a decision on our future structure (we can't continue as three different charities given our falling and ageing numbers) my thoughts for that sermon had been on institutional resurrection - that our individual churches would need to "die" because only then could our bones be rejoined and we could be resurrected as something new.

    Those thoughts are still running around in my head, and are coming out here. Last week I added a bit to my draft sermon to reflect the current situation, for we have now in a sense died for the duration - none of our normal activities can happen, neither Sunday worship in our three congregations nor even visiting each other for a cuppa and a natter. When we rise again we won't be the same - hopefully we won't be short of any members, but we'll have found new ways to fellowship and worship, new ways to serve our congregations and communities, our faith will have been tested and we'll have new perspectives on what is or isn't important in our church lives.

    I think I'll rework my sermon draft a bit, pick up a few more of those ideas and work it into something to be read rather than preached (which also means it can be a bit longer if the congregation don't need to be in their seats listening to me drone on). See if the minister wants it put on our website next week for when we would normally have gathered.
  • DooneDoone Shipmate
    Sounds a good idea to me and very appropriate.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    Other local church websites OTOH seem not to have noticed that there's anything amiss...
    :flushed:

    Quite a few local churches here did not have up to date information on their websites. I lament the lack of local inter-church communication.

    We're trying to coordinate an interfaith prison chaplaincy response locally. I've discovered that agreeing on which platform to use (Zoom, Skype, Facebook, WhatsApp...) is about as hard, and divisive, as agreeing on the meaning of Communion.

    It's good to encourage someone to set up a deanery Facebook Page, so that information and suggestions can be shared there.

    Ours also has an existing 'Distance Prayer' weekly session for those who are housebound, and anyone else who wants to join in.

    Suddenly there are a lot more housebound people.
  • When Our Lord rose, He could walk down the road having an extensive conversation with two friends who didn't recognise Him until the evening meal.

    The Church could come out of this the same but unrecognisable.

    They recognised him in the Breaking of the Bread. Who knows? Perhaps the Lord's Supper/Communion/Eucharist/Mass might become a unifying factor, rather than a divisive one...

  • Meanwhile, somewhat ironically, in view of what I've just said, FatherInCharge is inviting individuals to a 'Private Mass' in church tomorrow, to celebrate the Feast of St Joseph.
    :confounded:

    My patience is exhausted, so I have snitched on FInC to our Diocesan (also to the Archdeacon, but he's n/a for a few days...).
  • DooneDoone Shipmate
    A
    Meanwhile, somewhat ironically, in view of what I've just said, FatherInCharge is inviting individuals to a 'Private Mass' in church tomorrow, to celebrate the Feast of St Joseph.
    :confounded:

    My patience is exhausted, so I have snitched on FInC to our Diocesan (also to the Archdeacon, but he's n/a for a few days...).

    Good Lord! Well done @Bishops Finger you’ve definitely done the right thing!
  • I hate to be a snitch, but needs must...
    :disappointed:
  • Our current plan is having the church open for a couple of hours in the middle of the day for prayer, although most of the daily Mass attenders should be self isolating. Everything else is cancelled. Mass is private, although I suspect that Fr Duck will do it in church as the vicarage is so close. The readings and prayers will be posted as most people don't have their own missal to read along at home. I'll be doing Sunday school activities at home with a bit of help from the internet.
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