Church Covid-19 workarounds

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  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    Hosting

    Please ensure in this thread that any aspersions or other aspidistra be not cast on the sacramental theologies of our sisters and brothers in Ship.

    /Hosting (from a Far Country with closed borders in which I'm stuck)
  • I think that where we have disagreements with others,it is often through misunderstanding of the ideas of others.
    We know that in the early days of the Church the eucharist was celebrated by as many Christians together as possible - the chief celebrant (bishop) would be surrounded by his presbyters(priests) with deacons and lay people.
    In course of time the Western church prohibited concelebration, favouring the celebration of Mass by one priest at a time. This led later to the so-called 'private' Masses.
    Since the Second Vatican Council the Catholic Church has emphasised more the corporate nature of eucharistic worship where the whole community comes together and plays its part in the celebration. The Eastern Church has, as far as I know, always had concelebration.
    It was indeed as a reaction to the 'private' Masses, that many reformed Western church introduced rules that there had to be a certain minimum number of communicants present for the celebration to take place.
    While in one sense we can say that 'private' Masses are a thing of the past in the RC Church there is nothing which does not allow a priest to celebrate Mass without other people being present AND COMMUNICATING,if the situation warrants it.
  • TukaiTukai Shipmate
    Moving away from the specifics of communion to the more general question posed in the OP: how to worship without physically gathering.
    This Sunday , with indoor gatherings of 100 people or more effectively banned in Australia, our church circulated by email what would have been the order of service for this morning, including sermon and hymns, and invited us all to go though the service at home, ideally at what would have been the normal time of morning service.
    Two parts of the service seemed especially appropriate at this time of pandemic:
    (1) the opening hymn: "Be thou my vision, O Lord of my heart" - reminding us of what should be our priority in life.
    (2) a prayer (actually a poem by Lynn Ungar) , whose theme is
    "What if you thought of it as the Jews consider the Sabbath— the most sacred of times? Cease from travel. Cease from buying and selling.....And when your body has become still, reach out with your heart. Know that we are connected in ways that are terrifying and beautiful. Know that our lives are in one another’s hands."
  • DardaDarda Shipmate
    We usually have three Sunday services of different styles so our (UK Anglican) Rector decided he would not try to replicate one of these. Instead, he chose to email us all a link to a half hour YouTube video recorded in his kitchen. He suggested we watch it at a convenient time on Sunday. This was a combination of prayer, Bible readings and thoughts (mini sermons?) on those readings. He also included practical updates and information. No hymns (he said he would spare us his singing), but some suggested YouTube links to different musical offerings. This worked for me, although I appreciate that some of our more liturgically minded members may have preferred the streaming of a "standard" service.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    Online service for me this morning. We were all encouraged to source our own communion elements to take communion at home, which I thought worked well (obviously this only works if you are strict memorialists).

    In my house at least, the quality of the wine was considerably improved from usual. 😋
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    We are not on full on lock down - yet. As we are a small congregation with a large building we are still meeting, but all social events is cancelled for the time being. However, we are doing things differently. For a start, there is no communion service this week, as that requires folks to gather in the chancel. It will just MP, then Litany and Ante-Communion this evening. The plate will not be passed, it will be sitting on a little table at the front of the nave (most people come in the side door) and folks are encouraged to space themselves out.

    If we were bigger, and had more high risk people we would have cancelled, but at the moment it is still a case of weighing the risk factors, and make a decision accordingly.

  • Our neighbouring charismatic-evo church has the technology, so I've just watched part of their first live stream, and I have to say they've done it rather well.

    I wondered how they would arrange it, and found that there was a cast of four (AFAIK - I didn't watch the whole hour's worth) - leader, and three members of the 'praise band', all spaced at least 2 metres apart.

    I've advised FatherInCharge to speak with their tekkies...as FInC woulkd like to live stream a service (presumably him celebrating a 'private' Mass).

    Earlier today, I watched the C of E's online service led by ++Justin from Lambeth Palace Chapel, recorded earlier in the week. Again, an excellent job, with a thoughtful little homily, and the Gospel reading we at Our Place usually have on Mothering Sunday (Mary at the foot of the Cross).

    I do miss being in 'real' church, though - and it's only Week 1...
    :grimace:

    @PDR, I wish we had the option to stay open, but we don't - we have few really high-risk folk, and they're staying at home, anyway, and we have the room in which to spread ourselves out. But no - it's Not Allowed.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    My take after a second attempt this morning - which was clunky but nonetheless gathered around 80 people in total, more than double last week - is that getting this right is about much, much more than trying to transpose an in-the-flesh service and routine online.

    Apart from the difficulty of those left behind by poor bandwidth / tech savviness (not always those one might expect), I suspect the quality of meaningful online fellowship will not increase with more time spent doing it and that there will be a diminishing rate of return.

    I feel like this is one of those moments where the breakthrough involves turning the traditional concept we're used to on its head somehow. I just haven't worked out what that involves yet.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    I feel like this is one of those moments where the breakthrough involves turning the traditional concept we're used to on its head somehow. I just haven't worked out what that involves yet.

    I haven't tried online church yet, by my general experience with online meetings is that you get a certain amount of community with up to about a dozen people, then it breaks.

    Small groups of people saying morning prayer together over video could be a thing...
  • Having tried a few online services, I find that, even when they are well done, I don't feel as though I'm actually participating...

    This may just be due to my lack of imagination, but I find it easier to simply read (out loud) the texts of daily prayer on the C of E website.

  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    RC - no public worship allowed at all, but churches are open for an hour every day for private prayer.
    I went along this morning. There were about a dozen all spread out. As I am the musician for our parish I quietly played some familiar comforting hymns that people could hum to (no books) or quietly sing the choruses of - a few Taize things too. Some people quietly got on and prayed, others dipped in and out, gently singing or humming.
    Same again next week, judging by the positive reactions.
    Hard times for all.
  • Our Place (much smaller - backstreet A-C) had half-a-dozen or so in and out during the Open Hour (1030am-1130am), I am told.

    Our organist was present, and did much as @Alan29 describes, though I wasn't there myself, so can't say what she played.

    Madam Sacristan (a Franciscan tertiary) said her SSF Morning Office out loud, so that peeps could at least join in with the Lord's Prayer.

    FatherInCharge put the Blessed Sacrament on the altar, in Its monstrance, for the hour, but with none of the usual Benediction prayers, hymns etc.

    No 'private' Mass was said during the hour, so maybe FInC is saying it at home.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    Having tried a few online services, I find that, even when they are well done, I don't feel as though I'm actually participating...

    This may just be due to my lack of imagination, but I find it easier to simply read (out loud) the texts of daily prayer on the C of E website.

    I have the same problem, @Bishops Finger - virtual worship at best feels like looking through the window, and at worst, incredibly "plastic" in the sense of phoney/artificial. I popped over the church for MP this morning and had 3-4 as I expected. We sang an office hymns, and made an attempt at Plainsong for the Venite, the Benedictus es, and the Jubilate, and did OK, but it was not Westminster Abbey! I would expect 8 to 10 this evening. What happens next at church depends on what happens next with the coronavirus.
  • I'm glad it's not just me! Looking Through The Window describes it exactly...
    :wink:

    Keep on keeping on - it's all you can do, but, as you say, dependent on what happens next...
  • I wonder if it is familiarity but I find with St Matthew's that I do feel I am worshipping. That in part is because for those of us who are used to a said Mass 90% of it is very familiar. I find myself making the responses and crossing myself automatically. This has a negative side. Saturday's Mass was painfully familiar. So often at that one, it is just Fr, the Sacristan and me. You only saw Fr but I heard the Sacristan's voice as well. It almost felt I was there but I was not and that jarred.
  • Having seen that our esteemed Archbishop of Canterbury was going to be leading worship on BBC Radio 4 this morning I thought I'd tune in. Oh dear. Apart from some beautiful, if slightly soulless, singing from 4 of St Martin's Voices it was trite, formulaic, predictable dull and, well, left me feeling it might be a spoof dreamt up by Hislop and Ingrams.

    Rather than an "Act of Worship" that clearly isn't (if you see what I mean), I think it would be better if they went for some decent prayers interspersed with recordings of decent music.
  • I'm glad it's not just me! Looking Through The Window describes it exactly...
    :wink:

    Keep on keeping on - it's all you can do, but, as you say, dependent on what happens next...

    The SEC service was quite good this morning. The chapel is tiny enough that the field of view is not far off what you'd get sitting there. Take a wee look and see if it helps with the window thing.
  • Having tried a few online services, I find that, even when they are well done, I don't feel as though I'm actually participating...

    We did morning prayer today with 30 people on zoom, with pretty much everyone taking a turn at reading something. You can't recite in unison with live mics, because of the delay in zoom, but you can mute and recite along with whoever is leading that bit.

    It was definitely participatory, and worked OK. I suspect 30 might be about the upper limit for that, though.
  • QohelethQoheleth Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    I see that +London, +Southwark & +Chelmsford are now completely closing all churches. Not even opening for private prayer. Lone Clergy, Readers etc are encouraged to pray and celebrate but behind closed doors.

    http://newsletters.london.anglican.org/linkapp/cmaview.aspx?LinkID=pageid100278292qjt~9ffhzfj~nznjq~znxntx~z~x~f~f~n&fbclid=IwAR3RYH2mDDOSlMOQvDr609GG1_5_X63dtwICHKaj43fk-559rX4r2TXa2Vo
  • QohelethQoheleth Shipmate
    Qoheleth wrote: »
    I see that +London, +Southwark & +Chelmsford are now completely closing all churches. Not even opening for private prayer. Lone Clergy, Readers etc are encouraged to pray and celebrate but behind closed doors.

    http://newsletters.london.anglican.org/linkapp/cmaview.aspx?LinkID=pageid100278292qjt~9ffhzfj~nznjq~znxntx~z~x~f~f~n&fbclid=IwAR3RYH2mDDOSlMOQvDr609GG1_5_X63dtwICHKaj43fk-559rX4r2TXa2Vo

    Chelmsford is also closing all churches in solidarity.
  • Jengie Jon wrote: »
    I wonder if it is familiarity but I find with St Matthew's that I do feel I am worshipping. That in part is because for those of us who are used to a said Mass 90% of it is very familiar. I find myself making the responses and crossing myself automatically. This has a negative side. Saturday's Mass was painfully familiar. So often at that one, it is just Fr, the Sacristan and me. You only saw Fr but I heard the Sacristan's voice as well. It almost felt I was there but I was not and that jarred.

    Yes, we sometimes have just 2 or 3 at our weekday Mass, though Saturday tends to be our best day, usually.

    The service from St M's (I watched a bit of the 6pm Mass today) was well done - it's just the sort of thing we could arrange in our Lady Chapel - but I think Fr's mike needs to be turned up! Maybe he knows, and something can be done about it.
    :wink:

  • I'm glad it's not just me! Looking Through The Window describes it exactly...
    :wink:

    Keep on keeping on - it's all you can do, but, as you say, dependent on what happens next...

    The SEC service was quite good this morning. The chapel is tiny enough that the field of view is not far off what you'd get sitting there. Take a wee look and see if it helps with the window thing.

    I've just watched the SEC service, and yes, it's the best I've seen so far! A minimalist setting such as this is rather more to my taste than some more elaborate locations...

    It did feel as though I was there, and I liked the way the Primus paused at strategic points for 'us' to make the appropriate response.

    Was he using the 1982 Liturgy? And is the grey object on the wall behind the altar a Celtic cross?

    (BTW it's a good job he's no taller, or he would have been banging his head on the ceiling - that chapel really is wee...).
  • Tonight we had Vespers from the Community of the Resurrection, Mirfield.
  • I'm glad it's not just me! Looking Through The Window describes it exactly...
    :wink:

    Keep on keeping on - it's all you can do, but, as you say, dependent on what happens next...

    The SEC service was quite good this morning. The chapel is tiny enough that the field of view is not far off what you'd get sitting there. Take a wee look and see if it helps with the window thing.

    I've just watched the SEC service, and yes, it's the best I've seen so far! A minimalist setting such as this is rather more to my taste than some more elaborate locations...

    It did feel as though I was there, and I liked the way the Primus paused at strategic points for 'us' to make the appropriate response.

    Was he using the 1982 Liturgy? And is the grey object on the wall behind the altar a Celtic cross?

    (BTW it's a good job he's no taller, or he would have been banging his head on the ceiling - that chapel really is wee...).

    A fellow cleric posted - good-humouredly! - on one thread responding to the Primus's service, that it looked as if the chapel had been built around him! He is a tall bloke. But not that tall.

    Yes, it is the 1982 Liturgy, and yes the grey object is a kind of Celtic Cross on a slate-sort-of-thing, by the look of it.

    I wondered if that was attic and he was self-isolating from the rest of the household!
  • I found out that my 'mother church' was live streaming a service, and so I watched it - appropriate for Mothering Sunday! I now live some distance away, but without their nurturing my new faith it may well have never come to maturity so I thank God for them, and appreciate the past bonds which cannot be broken.

    I will be very hungry and thirsty for it I'm sure by the time we can meet for the next real worship service, but fasting is what Lent is all about, and if we're following Jesus we can expect the wilderness sometimes.

    We will get through this. The Lord is with us.
  • Anselmina wrote: »
    I'm glad it's not just me! Looking Through The Window describes it exactly...
    :wink:

    Keep on keeping on - it's all you can do, but, as you say, dependent on what happens next...

    The SEC service was quite good this morning. The chapel is tiny enough that the field of view is not far off what you'd get sitting there. Take a wee look and see if it helps with the window thing.

    I've just watched the SEC service, and yes, it's the best I've seen so far! A minimalist setting such as this is rather more to my taste than some more elaborate locations...

    It did feel as though I was there, and I liked the way the Primus paused at strategic points for 'us' to make the appropriate response.

    Was he using the 1982 Liturgy? And is the grey object on the wall behind the altar a Celtic cross?

    (BTW it's a good job he's no taller, or he would have been banging his head on the ceiling - that chapel really is wee...).

    A fellow cleric posted - good-humouredly! - on one thread responding to the Primus's service, that it looked as if the chapel had been built around him! He is a tall bloke. But not that tall.

    Yes, it is the 1982 Liturgy, and yes the grey object is a kind of Celtic Cross on a slate-sort-of-thing, by the look of it.

    I wondered if that was attic and he was self-isolating from the rest of the household!

    Thanks for the info!

    IIRC, the Primus did remark that this was in the loft over his office - it certainly looks as though that is the case, but I rather liked it. Yes, yes - Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's Chapel etc.
  • jay_emmjay_emm Shipmate
    Ultimately I think it's going to have to be some kind of multilayer thing, but that will take time to work out.

    Archive services
    A streamed 15 person service from somewhere good (if that can be done)
    Streamed 2 person morning prayer, look it's still there (covering as many venues as possible)
    Home based 'services'
    [Locked] streamed funerals
    Home talks
    Small groups
    E-mail groups
    Community organising

    I suppose if the things set up for workers (work has gone for MS Teams), have spare capacity and choose to yield their spare capacity Friday-Sunday, then it would be a lot easier. Although it does mean selling your soul to big tech.

    (in theory there's probably enough people to bodge something up if they have clear instructions. But security and privacy requires more than improvising)
  • The irony of this is that it allows me to meet, albeit virtually, with my own denomination, and am fed more, though in different ways, by being able to take part in the Eucharist than I am by the regular diet of Sunday worship in the Church of Scotland. No aspersions cast on the Kirk, but my "spiritual digestion" was formed by Anglicanism and it is still from there that I can most easily draw sustenance.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    The evo free church type who mentored me in the pastorate commented to me many years ago that liturgical elements such as the Lord's Prayer were useful in extreme situations when people didn't have the energy or capacity or health or memory to do much extempore praying of their own, and provide structure when lots of other structures have disappeared, and I have to say I agree.
  • Many years ago I was visiting an old lady in a care home. She was unable to form words of her own, just emitting a series of noises. During our little service I said we would recite the Lord's prayer. All of a sudden it was as if her speech had been restored to her 'Our father who art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy name etc, 'she was able to say . It seemed like a miracle, but when she had finished the prayer she went back to just stuttering.
    Of course it was simply a case of knowing this prayer so well, after decades of saying it, that she did not have to think at all of what to say.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Yes, that's exactly the kind of thing I had in mind.
  • The Spirit will give us the words we need ... quite often the Spirit works through the tradition and liturgy of the Church.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Well, it looks as though ALL churches will be closed - even for private prayer - for at least 3 weeks.

    FatherInCharge has a Cunning Plan to take his one-walk-per-day in the mornings, so as to say Morning Prayer in the church (AIUI, the same privilege of entering the church to pray extends to us Lay Readers, but I live too far away to take advantage of it).

    We await full guidance from Head Office as to who can do what, though.

    FInC lives about 10 minutes' brisk walk away from the church, and it's on his way to Asda, so he could combine it with a shopping trip as necessary (he doesn't have a car).

    O Lord, support us all the day long of this troublous life...
  • Having just read the latest from our Diocesan, it looks as though even just one ordained/licensed person going into the church to say the Office is forbidden, and clergy are liable to disciplinary measures should they disobey...

    Christe eleison.
  • EvangelineEvangeline Shipmate Posts: 27
    Having just read the latest from our Diocesan, it looks as though even just one ordained/licensed person going into the church to say the Office is forbidden, and clergy are liable to disciplinary measures should they disobey...

    Christe eleison.

    That's pretty excessive isn't it? What about clergy who live on the premises?
  • That's what I thought.

    As it happens Our Chap doesn't live next-door, but I can't see what harm it would do for him (whilst he's walking past the church anyway) to pop in to say his Office. He could do that without opening the main door!
  • yohan300yohan300 Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    The latest government guidance seems to indicate they must shut but can remain open "for solitary prayer" and that "live streaming of a service without audience would be permissible":

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874732/230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf

  • Thanks for that - we may well get revised advice from the Bishop later today.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    The problem is that having a place of worship open for "solitary prayer" invites people to travel unnecessarily, with attendant risks other than contamination. IIRC this policy in France lasted exactly three days.
  • Fair point, although Father's idea was to make the church (and Morning Prayer) the object of his daily walk (10 minutes from his house to the church, along quiet streets).
  • Our building is now closed. Completely. Electricity and gas turned off, mains water turned off. The minister (or, me if she's not able to go out if anyone in her family gets symptoms) will be going in once a week to inspect the fabric so we can spot if anything is wrong (at the instructions of the insurance) a trip she'll try to coordinate with delivering anything any of the members need (food, prescriptions) left at the front door. I suppose if she was to offer a few prayers while there no one is going to complain, but I expect the focus of her spiritual life will be acts of prayer and worship with her husband and daughters, and using the emailed devotions from the denomination (she will also record these on CD to deliver to members without the means of getting them 'live' on their computers)
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Fair point, although Father's idea was to make the church (and Morning Prayer) the object of his daily walk (10 minutes from his house to the church, along quiet streets).

    His daily walk, or others' too?
  • balaambalaam Shipmate
    yohan300 wrote: »
    The latest government guidance seems to indicate they must shut but can remain open "for solitary prayer" and that "live streaming of a service without audience would be permissible":

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874732/230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf

    Audience?

    If the congregation are a mere audience rather than participants in worship there is something amiss.

    At our place, we had planned for a prayer service for the coronavirus crisis on Tuesday and Thursday mornings. Alas, coronavirus and the UK government had other ideas.

    My Twitter feed took an odd turn last night. A Roman Catholic, we mutually follow, who is a Conservative Party supporter and Brexiteer has turned on Prime Minister Johnson for making Sacraments unworkable, whilst followers of a more Liberal or Socialist and Protestant bent are praising Johnson for yesterday evening's statement.

    We live in interesting times. (As in the old curse, "May you live in interesting times.")
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Fair point, although Father's idea was to make the church (and Morning Prayer) the object of his daily walk (10 minutes from his house to the church, along quiet streets).

    His daily walk, or others' too?

    No. He lives, and walks, alone, and I think has (at last!) grasped the nettles of Not Holding Services With Others Present, and of proper social distancing. I doubt if there will be many others out and about in what are normally quiet residential streets, anyway.

    So - he may decide simply to 'walk on by', but checking for security's sake, as the churchwardens can't. One is a teacher, and still at school (they have children of key workers), and the other, who doesn't drive, lives too far away to reasonably walk to church.
    What about spiritual communion ?

    Yes. There is sensible advice about this on the C of E website, to which our own website is linked, and AFAIK Father is going to mention it on his weekly email (which he is able, happily, to send to the majority of our little flock).

  • What about spiritual communion ?

    A practice I have adopted on occasion (and which has some limited precedent for Anglicans in missionary or wartime contexts) and commended to our provost in the hope that it might be more widely deployed in these "interesting" times.
  • DooneDoone Shipmate
    Just received an email from my Diocese with letters from Archbishops and local Bishops - churches now not allowed to open at all! Can’t say I’m surprised, as some people can’t be trusted to follow the rules, but very sad all the same 😢.
  • Same here - though, oddly, the government guidance seems to indicate that churches may be used for 'solitary prayer'.

    But, as @Eutychus has reported, that practice lasted for just 3 days in France!

    Safest, in the long run, to observe canonical obedience, and for the clergy (as Our Chap is doing) to say their Office at home.

    Speaking of which, I understand that Pope Francis has invited all Christians around the world (not just RCs) to say the Lord's Prayer tomorrow (the Feast of the Annunciation of Our Lord to the Blessed Virgin Mary) at 12 noon, wherever they may be.

    Those so inclined might also do well to say The Angelus at that time, given its appropriateness to the occasion!
  • DooneDoone Shipmate
    Indeed! 🕯
  • Or do both.

    Fr Duck has announced that his private Mass will be at 12 noon each day, preceded by the Angelus, and we are welcome to join him in spirit by reading along at home.
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