I was on the old Ship during 9/11 and spent most of that day in an internet cafe checking in on Shipmates. In the days that followed, I found much comfort in the thought that prayer for those affected was going on 24 hours a day, in different places around the world. I felt the same when we as a Ship were sharing the last days of our beloved Shipmate Miss Molly.
I was on the old Ship during 9/11 and spent most of that day in an internet cafe checking in on Shipmates. In the days that followed, I found much comfort in the thought that prayer for those affected was going on 24 hours a day, in different places around the world. I felt the same when we as a Ship were sharing the last days of our beloved Shipmate Miss Molly.
Yes, I do completely understand that and, although even when I was a believer I would have thought of families directly, rather than via prayer to god, I would protest strongly if there was an attempt to come anywhere near abolishing religions as, whatever happens in the future, needs to evolve, not be forced.
The music is in a major key, in 6/8 time, all of which fits a melody that goes sort of straight to an emotional response.
The music is in a Major key, depending on which tune you use. The tune St. Clement, possibly the most popular of tunes set to these words, is in a Major Key but is in 3/4 time not 6/8 - and they are not the same thing!!!
Thank you - I didn't realise. When humming it, I automatically went into 6/8 mode! (when I could see, I played the piano.) Since reading your post, I have been trying to think of it in 3/4 time and just can't do it!! That means it starts on the third beat, which makes beat 1 of the next bar on 'day' and the first of the next bar on 'ga... I think it makes it sound rather 'heavy'. I'll listen to a couple of you tubes and see how they sound regarding the defining of the beats.
However, in the 1906 version of English Hymnal and those re-prints in 1933 and 1976 'The day thou gavest' is set to the tune Les Commandemens De Dieu a tune originating in a Genevan Psalter of 1543 and possibly composed but certainly adapted by Bourgeois. St Clement is to be found in the Appendix (No. 16) named by Vaughan Williams as his 'Chamber of Horrors'. Les Commandemens De Dieu is in a Major key but alternates between 3 time and 4 time. By the time the 1984 'New English Hymnal' appears St Clement has taken over from Les Commandemens De Dieu which is used to a setting of words by F. Bland Tucker.
Thank you. I'll spend some time (plenty of that at the moment, I'm afraid!) following up those names this afternoon.
1) SusanDoris - St Clement does begin with an anacrusis.
2) Enoch - I have a copy of the 1906 English hymnal in front of me where Ellerton's words are set to the tune Les Commandemens de Dieu. Read through the words and you will see that the metre is 9.8.9.8. They fit perfectly to both tunes.
The English Hymnal of 1906 is one of the glories of the Anglican tradition. Vaughan Williams, the editor, as well as being one of England's leading composers, was also a scholar (D.Mus Cantab. F.R.C.O.) and his intention for English Hymnal was that it would be a scholarly publication for congregational use, drawing on the best traditions from across Europe and removing from use, tunes that he considered to be poor. In some cases, for various reasons, he was overruled and so the Appendix came into being, -nicknamed, as I said, by him, The Chamber of Horrors - St Clement is, rightly in my opinion, amongst that category.
1) SusanDoris - St Clement does begin with an anacrusis.
2) Enoch - I have a copy of the 1906 English hymnal in front of me where Ellerton's words are set to the tune Les Commandemens de Dieu. Read through the words and you will see that the metre is 9.8.9.8. They fit perfectly to both tunes.
The English Hymnal of 1906 is one of the glories of the Anglican tradition. Vaughan Williams, the editor, as well as being one of England's leading composers, was also a scholar (D.Mus Cantab. F.R.C.O.) and his intention for English Hymnal was that it would be a scholarly publication for congregational use, drawing on the best traditions from across Europe and removing from use, tunes that he considered to be poor. In some cases, for various reasons, he was overruled and so the Appendix came into being, -nicknamed, as I said, by him, The Chamber of Horrors - St Clement is, rightly in my opinion, amongst that category.
So that's where that expression came from! Years ago I remember an organist who used to refer complain bitterly about trips to The Chamber of Horrors at the back of EH. I thought it was just herself being opinionated. Twenty years in the USA have taught me that in the '40 Hymnal the preferred tune is always the first tune, and that congregations nearly always want to sing the Victorian clunker second tune!
Is this better? My apologies if I have used the 'quote' button wrongly.
Two points
1) SusanDoris - St Clement does begin with an anacrusis.
2) Enoch - I have a copy of the 1906 English hymnal in front of me where Ellerton's words are set to the tune Les Commandemens de Dieu. Read through the words and you will see that the metre is 9.8.9.8. They fit perfectly to both tunes.
The English Hymnal of 1906 is one of the glories of the Anglican tradition. Vaughan Williams, the editor, as well as being one of England's leading composers, was also a scholar (D.Mus Cantab. F.R.C.O.) and his intention for English Hymnal was that it would be a scholarly publication for congregational use, drawing on the best traditions from across Europe and removing from use, tunes that he considered to be poor. In some cases, for various reasons, he was overruled and so the Appendix came into being, -nicknamed, as I said, by him, The Chamber of Horrors - St Clement is, rightly in my opinion, amongst that category.
My school used "Songs of Praise" which was the later sequel to EH. I still remember the feel of the cover! Apparently it went through several editions over the years, this was in the 1960s.
We were still using S.o.P. at school in the 1980s, from whence came my basic knowledge of hymns. Looking back on it, I realise it was in a slightly liberal, muscular Christian vein, which fitted well with 'school religion.'
My mother loved The Day Thou Gavest and we sang it at her funeral service. I almost felt her smile of approval.
There's one problem with singing this - unless you are completely unrelated to the person, it is impossible to sing without having to stop to wipe away tears!
The last verse gives the impression that "earth's proud empires" will "never .... pass away" which might imply an endorsement of the imperialist project. But in my view the writer means precisely the opposite: that all human empires will fail but, in contrast, God's will grow and stand for ever.
I would have thought it is quite clear. In contrast to 'earth's proud empires' (which will pass away),the Kingdom of God (not the Church, he doesn't say that) is eternal.
I would have to say I've never seen any ambiguity there ... and in the midst of nineteenth century triumphalism consider it a fine check on colonial arrogance
In "The Day Thou Gavest", the author is expecting another day. It is a goodnight, see you tomorrow, a natural Evensong hymn.
Quite whether you take "The Day" as being the mechanical day, or the events in your day is kind of flexible, although "The darkness falls at thy behest", is mechanical (although the relatively modern author was almost certainly well aware of the direct mechanics, I wouldn't say metaphor, but not sure what I would say).
In "Abide with me", the author isn't. It's not really an Evensong song, although the resonances obviously work better there. There the night is arguably a metaphor.
Yes, and I have been thinking a little more about the date of the hymn's writing, 1870. Although there had been a move for some time towards a more scientific view of nature, it was only eleven years since Darwin's 'Origin of Species' so perhaps there was a perceived need to reinforce faith. but that is of course entirely speculation on my part.
Yes, complete and utter speculation. There was a hymn boom in Anglicanism at the time. This was simply due to the fact that hymns were starting to be allowed in church services. Prior to that, it was metrical canticles and psalms for public worship. Hymns were allowed for private devotion only. Just to make matters complex you also get the hymns from the tent revival meetings but those tend to be far more individual such as It is well with my soul.
By the way, the churches in the late 19th Century in England had less of a problem with evolution than many today. The church was largely dominated by a liberal element who believed in progress and the rolling back of superstition. If scientific evidence said that was how the World was made then that must be how God intended it to be made. Basically they put Protestant religion where you put Atheism. They were not tied to a literal understanding of the first chapter of Genesis as so many of our Evangelical brethren are today.
By the way, the churches in the late 19th Century in England had less of a problem with evolution than many today. The church was largely dominated by a liberal element who believed in progress and the rolling back of superstition. If scientific evidence said that was how the World was made then that must be how God intended it to be made. Basically they put Protestant religion where you put Atheism. They were not tied to a literal understanding of the first chapter of Genesis as so many of our Evangelical brethren are today.
Thank Ellen G. White. The anti-evolution crusade began in the Seventh Day Adventist Church and spread from there. No offense to our residennt SDAs but that's the history/
Comments
I have listened to your post several times, but cannot hear anything except quotes from mine! Am I missing something? Apologies if so.
1) SusanDoris - St Clement does begin with an anacrusis.
2) Enoch - I have a copy of the 1906 English hymnal in front of me where Ellerton's words are set to the tune Les Commandemens de Dieu. Read through the words and you will see that the metre is 9.8.9.8. They fit perfectly to both tunes.
The English Hymnal of 1906 is one of the glories of the Anglican tradition. Vaughan Williams, the editor, as well as being one of England's leading composers, was also a scholar (D.Mus Cantab. F.R.C.O.) and his intention for English Hymnal was that it would be a scholarly publication for congregational use, drawing on the best traditions from across Europe and removing from use, tunes that he considered to be poor. In some cases, for various reasons, he was overruled and so the Appendix came into being, -nicknamed, as I said, by him, The Chamber of Horrors - St Clement is, rightly in my opinion, amongst that category.
So that's where that expression came from! Years ago I remember an organist who used to refer complain bitterly about trips to The Chamber of Horrors at the back of EH. I thought it was just herself being opinionated. Twenty years in the USA have taught me that in the '40 Hymnal the preferred tune is always the first tune, and that congregations nearly always want to sing the Victorian clunker second tune!
That is also what I am seeing. You are not missing anything.
Two points
1) SusanDoris - St Clement does begin with an anacrusis.
2) Enoch - I have a copy of the 1906 English hymnal in front of me where Ellerton's words are set to the tune Les Commandemens de Dieu. Read through the words and you will see that the metre is 9.8.9.8. They fit perfectly to both tunes.
The English Hymnal of 1906 is one of the glories of the Anglican tradition. Vaughan Williams, the editor, as well as being one of England's leading composers, was also a scholar (D.Mus Cantab. F.R.C.O.) and his intention for English Hymnal was that it would be a scholarly publication for congregational use, drawing on the best traditions from across Europe and removing from use, tunes that he considered to be poor. In some cases, for various reasons, he was overruled and so the Appendix came into being, -nicknamed, as I said, by him, The Chamber of Horrors - St Clement is, rightly in my opinion, amongst that category.
I would have thought it is quite clear. In contrast to 'earth's proud empires' (which will pass away),the Kingdom of God (not the Church, he doesn't say that) is eternal.
Reassuring words and very much anti-imperialist.
Yes, complete and utter speculation. There was a hymn boom in Anglicanism at the time. This was simply due to the fact that hymns were starting to be allowed in church services. Prior to that, it was metrical canticles and psalms for public worship. Hymns were allowed for private devotion only. Just to make matters complex you also get the hymns from the tent revival meetings but those tend to be far more individual such as It is well with my soul.
Thank Ellen G. White. The anti-evolution crusade began in the Seventh Day Adventist Church and spread from there. No offense to our residennt SDAs but that's the history/