Centrality of the Eucharist?

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Comments

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    An 1130am service sounds like a very Good Idea (and would suit me admirably).

    In these present Troublous Times, and given that it looks as though Holy Week, Easter, and Pentecost services may all have to be abandoned, we might usefully consider our plans for Advent and Christmas already!

    (Meanwhile, I live in hope. Our parish pilgrimage to Walsingham in early May is clearly a no-no, but I have had thoughts about a possible Walsingham Day in August, if public worship is allowed again by then, and pulling out all the stops for an Assumptiontide Mass... :wink:)
  • Our Patronal Festival and accompanying bunfight will be kyboshed, but there is possibly an outside chance of Corpus Christi happening if the country can get a grip on things, as 12 weeks from today is June 15th and we would mark it on Sunday 14th. If we are back then that would be most apt. As long as we are back before Ordination season starts as Fr Duckling needs to be Priested, and that will be a big do anyway. (St Quacks has a bit of a reputation for catering).
  • O yes - we would probably celebrate CC then, too. As you say, a good day on which to start up again. We live in hope!
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    Pendragon wrote: »
    Our Patronal Festival and accompanying bunfight will be kyboshed, but there is possibly an outside chance of Corpus Christi happening if the country can get a grip on things, as 12 weeks from today is June 15th and we would mark it on Sunday 14th. If we are back then that would be most apt. As long as we are back before Ordination season starts as Fr Duckling needs to be Priested, and that will be a big do anyway. (St Quacks has a bit of a reputation for catering).
    I doubt if the June ordinations will go ahead. This diocese suggests that curates will be paid, albeit still laity, from then but ordained in September.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    angloid wrote: »
    I doubt if the June ordinations will go ahead. This diocese suggests that curates will be paid, albeit still laity, from then but ordained in September.
    At least one diocese already did that.

  • CyprianCyprian Shipmate
    angloid wrote: »
    Pendragon wrote: »
    Our Patronal Festival and accompanying bunfight will be kyboshed, but there is possibly an outside chance of Corpus Christi happening if the country can get a grip on things, as 12 weeks from today is June 15th and we would mark it on Sunday 14th. If we are back then that would be most apt. As long as we are back before Ordination season starts as Fr Duckling needs to be Priested, and that will be a big do anyway. (St Quacks has a bit of a reputation for catering).
    I doubt if the June ordinations will go ahead. This diocese suggests that curates will be paid, albeit still laity, from then but ordained in September.

    I think Manchester has gone down the same route.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    Enoch wrote: »
    angloid wrote: »
    I doubt if the June ordinations will go ahead. This diocese suggests that curates will be paid, albeit still laity, from then but ordained in September.
    At least one diocese already did that.

    Funnily enough that happened when I was ordained back in 1987. Except that was because of bomb threats in opposition to the ordination of women to the diaconate.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Clearly, the ordination of women to the diaconate - and then the priesthood! - has brought about the current Plague.

    Or so some might say...
    :innocent:
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    If we hold services next week (we are not on compulsory lock down so far) we probably will not be having HC. To be honest, I am not distressed by that yet, but I imagine I will be getting a little twitchy if things have not eased up a little by Easter. Communion is central to my understanding of Christian worship, but I do not have to receive, or even attend the Eucharist every week.

    However, I am definitely not looking forward to having to suspend public worship altogether, if it comes to that. That will distress me quite badly. We are fortunate in that we have a large building and a small congregation, which means the restrictions on numbers, and the requirement to engage in social distancing are not sufficiently restrictive to shut us down yet.

    What rather spoils things on the social distancing front, and, I confess, also makes me even less inclined to shut down completely, is the fact that although 'non-essential' retail stores have been asked to close down many are still open. For example, the local video gaming store is still open, which if nothing else raises a question as to what the word essential means to some folks. My fear is that if people do not heed the advice that they are being given some draconian measures will be implemented that will throw up all sorts of other issues which, this being the USA, folks will still be fighting about in the courts when we have all half forgotten Covid-19.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Zappa wrote: »
    Enoch wrote: »
    angloid wrote: »
    I doubt if the June ordinations will go ahead. This diocese suggests that curates will be paid, albeit still laity, from then but ordained in September.
    At least one diocese already did that.

    Funnily enough that happened when I was ordained back in 1987. Except that was because of bomb threats in opposition to the ordination of women to the diaconate.

    At the risk of a tangent, it's interesting that someone so committed to an idiosyncratic reading of the Bible etc could be prepared to kill and maim to make a point.
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    PDR wrote: »
    If we hold services next week (we are not on compulsory lock down so far) we probably will not be having HC. To be honest, I am not distressed by that yet, but I imagine I will be getting a little twitchy if things have not eased up a little by Easter. Communion is central to my understanding of Christian worship, but I do not have to receive, or even attend the Eucharist every week.

    However, I am definitely not looking forward to having to suspend public worship altogether, if it comes to that. That will distress me quite badly. We are fortunate in that we have a large building and a small congregation, which means the restrictions on numbers, and the requirement to engage in social distancing are not sufficiently restrictive to shut us down yet.

    What rather spoils things on the social distancing front, and, I confess, also makes me even less inclined to shut down completely, is the fact that although 'non-essential' retail stores have been asked to close down many are still open. For example, the local video gaming store is still open, which if nothing else raises a question as to what the word essential means to some folks. My fear is that if people do not heed the advice that they are being given some draconian measures will be implemented that will throw up all sorts of other issues which, this being the USA, folks will still be fighting about in the courts when we have all half forgotten Covid-19.

    I am sorry that this is going to be very direct, but I think it is a matter of life and death.

    A retailer being stupid is no reason for a church to emulate such behaviour - this isn’t about wiggling past rules, it’s about stopping people dying. Think about what you wrote!

    You can’t have HC. Far better if the church closed before it is forced to. With 8164 cases, all churches in the UK are closed and the country is on lockdown. The US case count, 55231 (at the time of posting) is a higher ratio per capita than the UK, on far lower testing proportions - and rising much faster. By Sunday, the US will have more cases than any other nation (including China).

    This is not going to be over by Easter; it has been deeply irresponsible of the president to suggest that.

    Your church can show moral leadership by closing now, and saving lives.

  • Gee D wrote: »
    Zappa wrote: »
    Enoch wrote: »
    angloid wrote: »
    I doubt if the June ordinations will go ahead. This diocese suggests that curates will be paid, albeit still laity, from then but ordained in September.
    At least one diocese already did that.

    Funnily enough that happened when I was ordained back in 1987. Except that was because of bomb threats in opposition to the ordination of women to the diaconate.

    At the risk of a tangent, it's interesting that someone so committed to an idiosyncratic reading of the Bible etc could be prepared to kill and maim to make a point.

    More lying than actual killing. Calling in a bomb threat when no bomb is present is a pretty effective disruptive technique, as it can often take hours to search a building sufficiently to be safe.
  • @PDR, if you do close the church, is there any way you could continue some form of online worship? This depends on your IT resources (and those of your congregation).

    There are a couple of threads on this board with some possibly helpful ideas.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    It would be difficult for two reasons. Firstly, our IT resources are extremely limited - for example, there is no phone or internet connection at the church. Secondly, as a group we tend to be a bit tech challenged. I could probably manage to put together a sound only feed, but that would about it.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Cameron wrote: »
    PDR wrote: »
    If we hold services next week (we are not on compulsory lock down so far) we probably will not be having HC. To be honest, I am not distressed by that yet, but I imagine I will be getting a little twitchy if things have not eased up a little by Easter. Communion is central to my understanding of Christian worship, but I do not have to receive, or even attend the Eucharist every week.

    However, I am definitely not looking forward to having to suspend public worship altogether, if it comes to that. That will distress me quite badly. We are fortunate in that we have a large building and a small congregation, which means the restrictions on numbers, and the requirement to engage in social distancing are not sufficiently restrictive to shut us down yet.

    What rather spoils things on the social distancing front, and, I confess, also makes me even less inclined to shut down completely, is the fact that although 'non-essential' retail stores have been asked to close down many are still open. For example, the local video gaming store is still open, which if nothing else raises a question as to what the word essential means to some folks. My fear is that if people do not heed the advice that they are being given some draconian measures will be implemented that will throw up all sorts of other issues which, this being the USA, folks will still be fighting about in the courts when we have all half forgotten Covid-19.

    I am sorry that this is going to be very direct, but I think it is a matter of life and death.

    A retailer being stupid is no reason for a church to emulate such behaviour - this isn’t about wiggling past rules, it’s about stopping people dying. Think about what you wrote!

    You can’t have HC. Far better if the church closed before it is forced to. With 8164 cases, all churches in the UK are closed and the country is on lockdown. The US case count, 55231 (at the time of posting) is a higher ratio per capita than the UK, on far lower testing proportions - and rising much faster. By Sunday, the US will have more cases than any other nation (including China).

    This is not going to be over by Easter; it has been deeply irresponsible of the president to suggest that.

    Your church can show moral leadership by closing now, and saving lives.

    There is another side to this. The parish is financial fragile, so if we do close the church now, and the closure is protracted then the reality is that we probably will not reopen.
  • GarasuGarasu Shipmate
    Do you have to do it from the church? Presumably you have internet access from wherever you're logging in?
  • PDR wrote: »
    Cameron wrote: »
    PDR wrote: »
    If we hold services next week (we are not on compulsory lock down so far) we probably will not be having HC. To be honest, I am not distressed by that yet, but I imagine I will be getting a little twitchy if things have not eased up a little by Easter. Communion is central to my understanding of Christian worship, but I do not have to receive, or even attend the Eucharist every week.

    However, I am definitely not looking forward to having to suspend public worship altogether, if it comes to that. That will distress me quite badly. We are fortunate in that we have a large building and a small congregation, which means the restrictions on numbers, and the requirement to engage in social distancing are not sufficiently restrictive to shut us down yet.

    What rather spoils things on the social distancing front, and, I confess, also makes me even less inclined to shut down completely, is the fact that although 'non-essential' retail stores have been asked to close down many are still open. For example, the local video gaming store is still open, which if nothing else raises a question as to what the word essential means to some folks. My fear is that if people do not heed the advice that they are being given some draconian measures will be implemented that will throw up all sorts of other issues which, this being the USA, folks will still be fighting about in the courts when we have all half forgotten Covid-19.

    I am sorry that this is going to be very direct, but I think it is a matter of life and death.

    A retailer being stupid is no reason for a church to emulate such behaviour - this isn’t about wiggling past rules, it’s about stopping people dying. Think about what you wrote!

    You can’t have HC. Far better if the church closed before it is forced to. With 8164 cases, all churches in the UK are closed and the country is on lockdown. The US case count, 55231 (at the time of posting) is a higher ratio per capita than the UK, on far lower testing proportions - and rising much faster. By Sunday, the US will have more cases than any other nation (including China).

    This is not going to be over by Easter; it has been deeply irresponsible of the president to suggest that.

    Your church can show moral leadership by closing now, and saving lives.

    If I close the church now, the reality is we probably will not reopen.
    As the cartoon @"Alan Cresswell " shared on another thread yesterday said, closing the building is not the same as closing the church. You’re not closing the church, or at least you shouldn’t be. The church is just operating differently.

    Perhaps this is an opportunity for you and/or some in your congregation to become more tech savvy—or tech savvy enough. It can only benefit you in the long run, and really, a lot of it isn’t that hard.

  • PDR wrote: »
    Cameron wrote: »
    PDR wrote: »
    If we hold services next week (we are not on compulsory lock down so far) we probably will not be having HC. To be honest, I am not distressed by that yet, but I imagine I will be getting a little twitchy if things have not eased up a little by Easter. Communion is central to my understanding of Christian worship, but I do not have to receive, or even attend the Eucharist every week.

    However, I am definitely not looking forward to having to suspend public worship altogether, if it comes to that. That will distress me quite badly. We are fortunate in that we have a large building and a small congregation, which means the restrictions on numbers, and the requirement to engage in social distancing are not sufficiently restrictive to shut us down yet.

    What rather spoils things on the social distancing front, and, I confess, also makes me even less inclined to shut down completely, is the fact that although 'non-essential' retail stores have been asked to close down many are still open. For example, the local video gaming store is still open, which if nothing else raises a question as to what the word essential means to some folks. My fear is that if people do not heed the advice that they are being given some draconian measures will be implemented that will throw up all sorts of other issues which, this being the USA, folks will still be fighting about in the courts when we have all half forgotten Covid-19.

    I am sorry that this is going to be very direct, but I think it is a matter of life and death.

    A retailer being stupid is no reason for a church to emulate such behaviour - this isn’t about wiggling past rules, it’s about stopping people dying. Think about what you wrote!

    You can’t have HC. Far better if the church closed before it is forced to. With 8164 cases, all churches in the UK are closed and the country is on lockdown. The US case count, 55231 (at the time of posting) is a higher ratio per capita than the UK, on far lower testing proportions - and rising much faster. By Sunday, the US will have more cases than any other nation (including China).

    This is not going to be over by Easter; it has been deeply irresponsible of the president to suggest that.

    Your church can show moral leadership by closing now, and saving lives.

    There is another side to this. The parish is financial fragile, so if we do close the church now, and the closure is protracted then the reality is that we probably will not reopen.

    The people are the church. Their welfare is of top priority.

    If there's ever a time to put our trust in God, it's now.

    When church buildings go into ruins, people are drawn to the ruins.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Arethosemyfeet - I'd read that as meaning that there was in fact a bomb. As you say, even with none there it's pretty disruptive.

    FDR - All churches are closed here for public worship. Weddings, whether church or civil can take place with a maximum of 5 people - the celebrant, the couple and the necessary 2 witnesses. Funerals are limited to 10. Very heavy penalties for those silly enough to try and get around the restrictions.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    Garasu wrote: »
    Do you have to do it from the church? Presumably you have internet access from wherever you're logging in?

    Yes, but it is poor and unreliable. Even when the internet traffic is relatively low it can be quite difficult to stream anything from here without significant interruptions. Needless to say it has been significantly worse the last ten days or so.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    Arethosemyfeet - I'd read that as meaning that there was in fact a bomb. As you say, even with none there it's pretty disruptive.

    FDR - All churches are closed here for public worship. Weddings, whether church or civil can take place with a maximum of 5 people - the celebrant, the couple and the necessary 2 witnesses. Funerals are limited to 10. Very heavy penalties for those silly enough to try and get around the restrictions.

    We are on a blanket restriction of no more than 10.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    We usually have 10 or 12 in the sanctuary party. Now there's no party at all.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    We usually have 10 or 12 in the sanctuary party. Now there's no party at all.

    It is usually just me and whoever is 'clerking.' We tend to be low-key rather than Low Church - there is a difference.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Yes, and a good example is the online Mass from Christ Church St Laurence. Priest, assistant and a cantor (only description I can give of a young man with a good clear voice who sang the usual parts of the service). Oh, and an organist up in the loft and so maintaining a suitable distance.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    Gee D wrote: »
    We usually have 10 or 12 in the sanctuary party. Now there's no party at all.

    Angels and archangels gather with you
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Thanks Zappa - we are together in spirit if not in person.
  • cgichardcgichard Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    @Gee D Our Administrator has just been measuring the larger church hall next to the smaller one where we usually meet, to see if we could meet the 4 sq metres per person rule there. But I think that here in Victoria all places of worship must be closed as of Monday 23 midnight and that would apply to rented space in a church hall as well as to the actual church building. Am I correct?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I don't know about Victoria, in NSW all churches have now been closed for public worship. In Sydney, ++Glenn has said that they're to be closed completely. Regardless of the precise rule, I'd say that safety meant that you closed down completely.
  • In Newcastle, we have been advised that Diocesan Council has formalised the Bishop's notification by suspending the right of entry to all church buildings until the outbreak has receded.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    When I was young, our church had Communion on the first Sunday of the month at the main service and Morning Prayer every other Sunday. Congregation was perfectly happy with this situation. Those who wanted Communion every Sunday could attend the early service. Very few availed themselves of this opportunity. Enter a rector who thought HC was "central. After about a decade of this situation ( HC every Sunday at the main service), when some suggested more frequent MP many of the congregation declared themselves happy with HC every week and opposed any change. In both cases, the reaction of the congregation was simply as a result of habituation.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    We started with HC every other week, and most of the congregation are happy with that. When we went to two services I made communion 1st and 3rd in the morning, and 2nd and 4th in the evening. The one or two who attend both morning and evening services receive communion weekly. Of course, at the moment were completely banjaxed by this stupid virus.
  • I suspeect that if the lockdown carries on for three months there will be some laity who will question why the eucharist should be the only service available when we can go back to church. If social distancing goes on even longer, maybe we can knock The Peace on the head.
  • I suspeect that if the lockdown carries on for three months there will be some laity who will question why the eucharist should be the only service available when we can go back to church. If social distancing goes on even longer, maybe we can knock The Peace on the head.

    That sounds more like your wish fulfilment fantasy than a prediction. More likely most people will desperately miss sharing communion and being able to greet each other in person. I know communion is far more dear to me now I live somewhere it is rarely available even in ordinary times.
  • ….maybe we can knock The Peace on the head.
    Amen to that …. it's theologically ridiculous in that context anyway.

  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    The peace drives me nuts. Even before Covid-19 random physical contact with near strangers was/is something I really cannot handle.
  • PDR wrote: »
    The peace drives me nuts. Even before Covid-19 random physical contact with near strangers was/is something I really cannot handle.

    I sort of like it - it's scripted social interaction with fairly rigid and well-defined bounds.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    Hosting

    Without being mean and nasty in a time of cholera I suggest the peace warrants a separate thread. It's probably a deceased equine but in a Plague Year there are many such signs and wonders as graves opening and horses arising

    /Hosting
This discussion has been closed.