As a Baptist (and so from a tradition which doesn't have a high view of formal liturgy or set services), I think that the writer talks a lot of sense, though I don't agree with everything he says. I absolutely agree that watching the service on a screen takes us away from the living and sensory experience of being part of a group worshipping together: however I do have this feeling that many Christians in the Western context don't fully embrace the sense of the communal even when they worship in church: it is a multi-individual experience rather than a collective one; even though they realise they are worshipping in a congregation their response is still very much one of "What I get out of it". Although I would prefer the writer to have used inclusive language, I very much like his observation: "Although it may produce feelings of deep emotion in the believer, the goal of the Liturgy is to call mankind to a higher and nobler reality".
I'm not sure that viewing a service online is as passive and detached as the writer makes out - otherwise why can we be moved to tears by watching a film or a tragic news item on the television? I might naughtily suggest that one can physically be in church yet with one's mind "miles away"! I don't agree with his criticism of the Internet per se: yes, it has clearly been used in revolting and obscene ways, but as a medium it is in itself neutral. One might equally say that, as paintings down the centuries have been used to depict evil or promote violence, one should not have icons in church but worship in a bare Quaker meeting house!
I think all of us, from every tradition, accept that "virtual church" is not the real thing ... but surely it is better than nothing? We should be grateful to God that we have this medium, a product of the last decade or two, available to us.
I had never watched a service online until last week, one conducted by a minister who is a good friend. I felt the connection of friendship and trust and was able to talk with him the next day about it. I'll do it again tomorrow with another friend, but won't try it with anyone I'm not already connected with. What little is left of our liturgy is not the hands-on kind, so it's a bit different for us.
The computer monitor is a bit like a one-way mirror, I suppose. Or is it like being in a big theatre and looking down from the gods through opera glasses, where the performer hardly knows you are there?
Here's a strong indictment of live streaming services in the Orthodox context. How do those of you from other traditions respond to it?
Hmmm. I would agree that watching a streamed liturgy isn’t a replacement for or as good as being physically present. But I can’t help wondering if his insistence that those watching a streamed service are merely watching rather than participating (as best they can) betrays some prejudice, or some assumption that tuning in via computer must mean watching rather than participating. I’m not at all sure that’s true for everyone, especially those quite used to interacting in virtual meetings and the like.
I will admit, acknowledging full well that it is likely highly unfair of me to have the thought, that when I read this:
The answer is because in viewing a liturgical service in this manner, one additional barrier—the screen—stands between the viewer and the celebrant of the service.
my first thought was “Interesting statement from one in a tradition where part of the service is screened from the congregation by an iconostasis.”
Hmmm. I would agree that watching a streamed liturgy isn’t a replacement for or as good as being physically present. But I can’t help wondering if his insistence that those watching a streamed service are merely watching rather than participating (as best they can) betrays some prejudice, or some assumption that tuning in via computer must mean watching rather than participating.
For all of our on-line liturgies a PDF of the Order of Service is provided, complete with the Propers. I know that I respond when appropriate, and I feel sure that the majority of others do as well. Of course it's not like being physically present, but it really does give a feeling of community knowing that many of the people I love -- as well as total strangers -- are all joining in. Last Sunday we used Zoom, so we could actually see who was participating (names only, no faces). There were some technical difficulties, so we're switching to YouTube tomorrow. (Morning Prayer and Compline are on Facebook, available even to those of us who are not on Facebook.)
We do the same, Pigwidgeon. The email that contains the link to the streamed service also has a PDF of the bulletin, including the words to all hymns, so that those at home can participate as much as possible.
We do the same, Pigwidgeon. The email that contains the link to the streamed service also has a PDF of the bulletin, including the words to all hymns, so that those at home can participate as much as possible.
Yes, and I can belt out the hymns without worrying about offending the people near me.
I just had a telephone call from my favorite 90-year-old parishioner (checking to see how I was doing!). She's been participating in the daily offices and looking forward to tomorrow's YouTube service.
My NF church is not live streaming but we are getting sent links to a recording of the sermon, worship songs, prayers and children’s worship and story. The church has decided to work through the book of James as part of our theme of community. Normally when we do a book like this we have sermons on parts of the book and are expected to read the in between bits at home but the church has, instead, sent an email ‘thought for the day’ 3 times this week on the bits in between which has been really nice; they are presented by different people from the church in their own homes, mostly the leadership team but also lay people, and it’s good to hear different familiar voices. Them being at home and not in the church/office seems to give a feeling of solidarity.
My bible study group is meeting via Zoom, but I haven’t made it yet as I was unwell last week. We usually eat together so we’re meeting over dinner. We also have a very active WhatsApp group.
This week our pastor got the livestreaming working right, and we got a hymn led by his wife, who is a lovely singer, and a prayer and sermon from the pastor, with people checking in on Facebook live to show they were online, so there was at least a sense of community. There was also a Zoom Bible study discussion earlier in the morning, but I didn't join in on that so I'm not sure how that went.
Meanwhile, in the "what not to do if you don't want your online service to go viral" category, there's this.
...I will admit, acknowledging full well that it is likely highly unfair of me to have the thought, that when I read this:
The answer is because in viewing a liturgical service in this manner, one additional barrier—the screen—stands between the viewer and the celebrant of the service.
my first thought was “Interesting statement from one in a tradition where part of the service is screened from the congregation by an iconostasis.”
My NF church is not live streaming but we are getting sent links to a recording of the sermon, worship songs, prayers and children’s worship and story.
Bishop has all churches closed, and I just heard several have offered the space to the county if needed, for staging areas, testing, or if need be beds. That makes me proud of the church.
By the wonders of YouTube I’ve been “attending” Sunday morning services broadcast by the parish church, at first from the Abbey itself (with large cutout nuns in the choir stalls - they were made by local children to mark a huge anniversary this year) and then from the homes (and gardens) of the vicar and curate. The singing was led by a member who is a professional soprano and was wonderful. Communion was almost upstaged by the vicar’s dog who wandered into the garden.
I’ve been hosting Compline, just a few times so far, for a Facebook group “Compline at Nine”, where most nights someone will host, so we get a variety of styles. So that non-Facebook people aren’t excluded I’ve started to do livestream and zoom simultaneously - this is fairly easily possible on a laptop with zoom settings, but unfortunately my laptop speaker and camera are low quality. So I’ve dug out an old iPad and will use that for one alongside the newer iPad for the other.
If a lit...tile bit jerki...ly from time to ... time.
You.....are....corr...ect.
Last eve....ning's lo...cal church lead...ers meet...ing was in just...such...a...style.
Phew!
(And the rather subdued lighting in the Ark made my image appear to be that of a Hideous Visage, as of a Foul Fiend, looming through the gloom of the room... I'll have to see what I can do about that - the lighting, I mean, as there's not much I can do about the Hideous Visage, other than wearing a Bag over my head whilst on camera)
Watched two services on line this morning. Local Methodist, the sound was much improved from last week but most of them time I had only colorful lines across the screen. I felt good to be able to greet others as they joined in via the comment area, made me feel I was part of the service with my friends, otherwise I might have tuned out with no video showing. I then watched the Cathedral service on line from Grace in San Francisco. It was very well done with clear auto and video, but feeling less connected.
Hmmm...It's still working for me, but if you go to their website at https://www.standrewshespeler.ca/ and look at Sunday 19th, it should be visible. It's a Canadian website - I don't know if that affects its visibility in the UK.
It’s a picture (of I’m sure a famous painting I can’t identify) of three of the disciples examining the wound in the risen Jesus’s side. The disciples and Jesus all have medical masks on, and the caption says “John 20:19–31 (Revised Covid Version).”
Attended our church meeting this morning for the first time since I was unwell (my church is what was called New Frontiers, these days called Relational Mission). Service was half hour long on zoom, with worship song, communion, prayers and some quite Anglican sounding liturgy. We have a good tech team so this was managed very smoothly with worship from a separate front room presented in a nicely informal manner. Led by a lay member of the church (our services are often led and preached by non elders/ministers) and she had a welcoming manner which was well pitched. Probably about 200 computers linked in, many of which were families/couples, so good attendance. Our normal church attendance in house is about 400 or so including children across the two morning services.
Sermon (we’re doing a Psalm series), family activity, more worship, in separate recordings to listen to on demand. I will just listen to the sermon this afternoon.
Either side of the live zoom was an hour or so of chat where we were assigned into break out rooms which we could leave and get reallocated if we wanted to move around. We chatted for over an hour afterwards, mostly with people we knew and it was good to catch up with people and share stories and pray for each other. I really enjoyed it.
Church is sending out two ‘thoughts for the day’ during the week, the first few weeks they were short bible studies on the series of James to fit in with the Sunday sermons, this week podcasts from church members. Our weekly local prayer/bible study small group is meeting on Zoom too. It’s good to have the continuing human contact there.
I came across the Easter Day 2020 service from Canterbury Cathedral most of which was presented by the Archbishop of Canterbury who also preached the sermon. The service was interspersed with several beautifully sung prerecorded hymns. The entire service was very moving and yet full of joy. I can highly recommend it to Anglicans.
This Sunday, I was very pleased with the BBC Sunday Worship from St. David's Cathedral - a lovely balance of pre-recorded hymns mixed with up-to-the-minute coronavirus-aware introduction / prayers / sermon. And didn't the readings just happen to be appropriate this week! (wherever you were)
I don’t think it was the service that was MWed. I think it was the one here. But no one was in the cathedral; the ABC was preaching from his home, I assume Lambeth Palace.
I suppose it might be because Anglican cathedrals do have the skills, and resources, required - but yes, of course, so do other churches, of various denominations!
It was Mystery Worshipped, and there are several comments on that board.
I can't find it. I have the Abp in the Lambeth kitchen, but not in his cathedra.
Apologies for any confusion caused inadvertently. The service I referred to, and which was MWed, was indeed the 'Kitchen Table Eucharist' from Lambeth Palace.
I suppose it might be because Anglican cathedrals do have the skills, and resources, required - but yes, of course, so do other churches, of various denominations!
Actually I think it's because the BBC is using old "Songs of Praise" recordings for the hymns and wants to ensure that the "place where they sing" is the same as the place from which the new bit of service is being broadcast. But of course other SoP recordings weren't made in cathedrals! (Most of the hymn singing in "Dechrau Canu", aka the Welsh SoP, comes from chapels, but it's all in Welsh!)
Apart from the first post, all of this has been about how good virtual worship has been. Does anyone have any examples of things going wrong? They would help my people laugh.
Comments
Maybe I'm thinking too parochially - the boundaries have moved...so I'm off to virtual Scotland for Mass on Sunday...
I'm not sure that viewing a service online is as passive and detached as the writer makes out - otherwise why can we be moved to tears by watching a film or a tragic news item on the television? I might naughtily suggest that one can physically be in church yet with one's mind "miles away"! I don't agree with his criticism of the Internet per se: yes, it has clearly been used in revolting and obscene ways, but as a medium it is in itself neutral. One might equally say that, as paintings down the centuries have been used to depict evil or promote violence, one should not have icons in church but worship in a bare Quaker meeting house!
I think all of us, from every tradition, accept that "virtual church" is not the real thing ... but surely it is better than nothing? We should be grateful to God that we have this medium, a product of the last decade or two, available to us.
One day, there will be some sort of Liturgy In Praise Of The Electric Interweb...
Well someone could start by writing a new verse for God of Concrete, God of Steel.
The computer monitor is a bit like a one-way mirror, I suppose. Or is it like being in a big theatre and looking down from the gods through opera glasses, where the performer hardly knows you are there?
I will admit, acknowledging full well that it is likely highly unfair of me to have the thought, that when I read this: my first thought was “Interesting statement from one in a tradition where part of the service is screened from the congregation by an iconostasis.”
Yes, and I can belt out the hymns without worrying about offending the people near me.
I just had a telephone call from my favorite 90-year-old parishioner (checking to see how I was doing!). She's been participating in the daily offices and looking forward to tomorrow's YouTube service.
My bible study group is meeting via Zoom, but I haven’t made it yet as I was unwell last week. We usually eat together so we’re meeting over dinner. We also have a very active WhatsApp group.
Meanwhile, in the "what not to do if you don't want your online service to go viral" category, there's this.
What is an NF church please?
I’ve been hosting Compline, just a few times so far, for a Facebook group “Compline at Nine”, where most nights someone will host, so we get a variety of styles. So that non-Facebook people aren’t excluded I’ve started to do livestream and zoom simultaneously - this is fairly easily possible on a laptop with zoom settings, but unfortunately my laptop speaker and camera are low quality. So I’ve dug out an old iPad and will use that for one alongside the newer iPad for the other.
You.....are....corr...ect.
Last eve....ning's lo...cal church lead...ers meet...ing was in just...such...a...style.
Phew!
(And the rather subdued lighting in the Ark made my image appear to be that of a Hideous Visage, as of a Foul Fiend, looming through the gloom of the room... I'll have to see what I can do about that - the lighting, I mean, as there's not much I can do about the Hideous Visage, other than wearing a Bag over my head whilst on camera)
...it took him about 2 nanoseconds to see the joke.
https://i2.wp.com/www.standrewshespeler.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Untitled.png?w=696&ssl=1
Sermon (we’re doing a Psalm series), family activity, more worship, in separate recordings to listen to on demand. I will just listen to the sermon this afternoon.
Either side of the live zoom was an hour or so of chat where we were assigned into break out rooms which we could leave and get reallocated if we wanted to move around. We chatted for over an hour afterwards, mostly with people we knew and it was good to catch up with people and share stories and pray for each other. I really enjoyed it.
Church is sending out two ‘thoughts for the day’ during the week, the first few weeks they were short bible studies on the series of James to fit in with the Sunday sermons, this week podcasts from church members. Our weekly local prayer/bible study small group is meeting on Zoom too. It’s good to have the continuing human contact there.
I can't find it. I have the Abp in the Lambeth kitchen, but not in his cathedra.
Apologies for any confusion caused inadvertently. The service I referred to, and which was MWed, was indeed the 'Kitchen Table Eucharist' from Lambeth Palace.
Thinking back to that service, no doubt the Abp made a pot of tea and then let it draw while he divested. Probably about the right time.
My own personal preference for online worship is a spoken service (with possibly a pre-recorded hymn at the end).