Toad by name, Toad by nature

135

Comments

  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    It is hilarious to hear English complain about Yank tourists given the English behaving badly on holiday reputation.

    Is that an accurate report about the character of every English person travelling abroad, or merely a lazy generalisation?
    Neither.

  • I'm going for the latter, tbh. Quacks like duck.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    I was rarely a tourist during our three years in England. The Gulf War was going on and my husband worked literally from dark to dark. It had been my bright idea to live off base in a real English village, but with no car, no TV, dollars that were only worth half a pound, most days it was just me, the radio and the neighbor's cats. Don't get me wrong, I still loved a lot about it. The Cotswolds are beautiful to look at and I became quite attached to The Archers.

    We did manage to go see Warwick Castle one time. A British woman sidled up to me, assuming I was British because I had learned to dress in grayish colors and keep my mouth shut; she began talking about the obnoxious group of Americans up ahead, how they were blocking the walk and wearing their Mickey Mouse clothes and horrid trainers. I just nodded, but I had passed them earlier and noticed their French accents. I wonder if the reason Brits think Americans are all loud and pushy is that they think all the quiet ones are British?

    Movies? I can't feel responsible for all the war movies made by American production companies to sell to American men. I'm a Merchant Ivory girl myself.

    Lilbuddha's right, Americans love Brits. I never heard a bad word about any of the British tourists we used to see when we lived in Washington D. C. Which is probably one reason we were so surprised to find the special relationship didn't work both ways.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    I'm going for the latter, tbh. Quacks like duck.

    Listen you fucking muppet. I didn't make any generalisation in the bit you quoted. If you read for comprehension, you'd have noticed that. The only duck sound you heard was your voice trying to escape from your tightly clenched arse.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    As I said I live in South Wales and to be honest day to day no one cares I am English.
    I think there may be at least one day a year when people may remember - days like these.
  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    I'm going for the latter, tbh. Quacks like duck.

    Listen you fucking muppet. I didn't make any generalisation in the bit you quoted. If you read for comprehension, you'd have noticed that. The only duck sound you heard was your voice trying to escape from your tightly clenched arse.

    That quote again in full...
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    It is hilarious to hear English complain about Yank tourists given the English behaving badly on holiday reputation.

    Some English? All English? What behaviour in particular? Could you be more explicit?

    Or you could, you know, apologise.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    We each have our own faults when abroad. I'm sure Americans hate our habits when we're there, just as we aren't fond of their bad habits when there.
    Americans love Brits. Even to the extent that a black Brit is elevated above being black.

    In general true. It's the accents. Brits visiting the US don't have a reputation for having any particular habits.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    I'm going for the latter, tbh. Quacks like duck.

    Listen you fucking muppet. I didn't make any generalisation in the bit you quoted. If you read for comprehension, you'd have noticed that. The only duck sound you heard was your voice trying to escape from your tightly clenched arse.

    That quote again in full...
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    It is hilarious to hear English complain about Yank tourists given the English behaving badly on holiday reputation.

    Some English? All English? What behaviour in particular? Could you be more explicit?

    Or you could, you know, apologise.
    Read. The. Fucking. Sentence.
    Simple thing for even such a simple mind.
  • I'm really sorry Twilight had such a hard time over here. Of course, the Cotswolds and Warwick Castle aren't necessarily representative, but still ...

    I don't know who brought the tourist thing up. FWIW, I've seen US tourists who've embodied every stereotype of Americans abroad and then some, and others who have been the epitome of charm, courtesy and respectful appreciation of whatever it is they've come to see. I've also seen US visitors treated with the utmost courtesy and respect.

    I'll also admit to schadenfreude when I've seen or heard of certain types of American visitor put firmly in their place, whether in France, Spain or the UK. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of occasions - such as those Twilight cites, where a barbed response is entirely undeserved.

    As far as the Special Relationship goes, it strikes me that at various times, people on both sides of the Atlantic wonder whether it's one-sided.

    I can understand why Twilight might get the impression that we are a bunch of ungrateful bastards though.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Twilight wrote: »
    The U. S. has downsized our presence in England since we were there in 1993. The Upper Heyford base is now RAF. We were only ever there by invitation and request. We were always ready to leave anytime your government had thought we were making things more, rather than less, dangerous for you.

    While we were there we visited a cemetery that contained the graves of over 10,000 American soldiers killed there during WWII. We heard an Englishwoman snarl, "Americans act like they won the war when all they did was help out a little." Was that you?

    I don't know any American who thinks we won WWII single handed and I don't know any who expect thanks or appreciation from any of you for "helping out a little." I was only surprised that so many, like you, are so angry at us for it.

    Whereas here, most still remember with gratitude the way in which the US came to our defence in WW II when Churchill wanted to dump us in favour of keeping the Indian Empire, as he saw it (in his vision, the Indians had little part in it).
  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    I'm going for the latter, tbh. Quacks like duck.

    Listen you fucking muppet. I didn't make any generalisation in the bit you quoted. If you read for comprehension, you'd have noticed that. The only duck sound you heard was your voice trying to escape from your tightly clenched arse.

    That quote again in full...
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    It is hilarious to hear English complain about Yank tourists given the English behaving badly on holiday reputation.

    Some English? All English? What behaviour in particular? Could you be more explicit?

    Or you could, you know, apologise.
    Read. The. Fucking. Sentence.
    Simple thing for even such a simple mind.

    They're playing your song again.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Doc, I reckon you are in the wrong. Lilbuddha didn't make a generalisation about the behavior of Brits on holiday, she referred to the reputation of Brits on holiday. I think you owe her an apology.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Some Americans speak and act LOUDLY on holidays. It means that if they say stupid things, you hear it. Also, some Europeans (like Danes I think) learn to speak English with an American accent, and speak it very well. So Americans cop their stupidity as well.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    Doc, I reckon you are in the wrong. Lilbuddha didn't make a generalisation about the behavior of Brits on holiday, she referred to the reputation of Brits on holiday. I think you owe her an apology.

    But she didn't say "unjustified reputation". If I'd posted about Germans putting their beach towels out on the sun loungers, or some other lazy national stereotype, I'd be taken to task, and rightly so.

    I'm presuming the behaviour she's talking about is getting drunk and vomiting in the street. Something I've never done while abroad. Or at home. So, yes. What reputation is that, and why should I have to share it?
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Doc, I reckon you are in the wrong. Lilbuddha didn't make a generalisation about the behavior of Brits on holiday, she referred to the reputation of Brits on holiday. I think you owe her an apology.

    But she didn't say "unjustified reputation". If I'd posted about Germans putting their beach towels out on the sun loungers, or some other lazy national stereotype, I'd be taken to task, and rightly so.

    I'm presuming the behaviour she's talking about is getting drunk and vomiting in the street. Something I've never done while abroad. Or at home. So, yes. What reputation is that, and why should I have to share it?
    You utter hypocrite.
    ETA: Thank you, though. You reply drained my anger towards you. Your reply is so pathetic that I can only feel pity.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Doc, I reckon you are in the wrong. Lilbuddha didn't make a generalisation about the behavior of Brits on holiday, she referred to the reputation of Brits on holiday. I think you owe her an apology.

    But she didn't say "unjustified reputation". If I'd posted about Germans putting their beach towels out on the sun loungers, or some other lazy national stereotype, I'd be taken to task, and rightly so.

    I'm presuming the behaviour she's talking about is getting drunk and vomiting in the street. Something I've never done while abroad. Or at home. So, yes. What reputation is that, and why should I have to share it?

    but if you referred to Germans' reputation, you would subject to context be in the right, and the criticism wrong. I think you might be on a hair trigger, and should withdraw your comment.

  • Everyone and every nation has the capacity to be jerks when travelling. Having spoken to Canadians in widely disparate parts of the world rather sharply.

    I've also enjoyed interacting with people from a wide range of places. (Some of them think they can out drink a Canuck.) The rudest tourist ever in my experience was from Singapore. Which I told my father about as that's where he grew up.

    Back to Simon and Robert. I like you both. Both assets to the ship.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Cheers NP. I was a real jerk to a cop in Slovenia. My wife saved the situation, bless her. When you travel you are always in unfamiliar territory and often burning the candle at both ends.
  • I can't believe that I've read through his thread... You, all, are a bunch of assholes. Lilbuddha, where the fuck does Buddha come into your persona? Really? Explain that. Your resort to "read for comprehension" is a repetitive, condescending non-response. Just fuck off. The rest of you - get your act in order. This is the most pointless pond war that I've ever witnessed on the Ship. All of you, just fucking grow up and find something better to do with your time. I'm flouncing off to lurk in Kerygmania, where I might actually learn something useful or interesting, rather than staying here, which only confirms my already dour opinion of humans.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Re attitudes of Americans towards Brits and other UK folk:

    Yes (broad brush), we tend to like you; and yes, it's partly to do with the accents. Particularly English accents, but lots of us like Irish and Scots accents, too. I'm not sure about Welsh accents, 'cause we don't get much chance to hear them. (Well, actor Richard Burton was popular; but I don't think he used much of a Welsh accent on screen.) Welsh choirs are wonderful, though. I'm not sure about the liking of some of the other accents (e.g., Manx, Faroes, etc.), because we probably only hear them on the occasional travel show.

    There was a bit about this on the US sitcom "Big Bang Theory". Penny is interested in a British guy. Leonard, her sometime boyfriend, is not happy about it. A friend suggests to Leonard that Penny likes the accent. Leonard says, bitterly, "Oh, they all do!!!"--"all" referring to American women.

    Many, many Americans love and are hooked on UK TV and movies: "Britcoms", dramas, mysteries, Downton Downton Downton, documentaries, history, info about royals (both present and past), etc. Mostly shown on PBS. I've heard that the SF Bay Area--probably Northern California, actually--has the most devoted viewers of all of that.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    I'm going for the latter, tbh. Quacks like duck.

    Listen you fucking muppet. I didn't make any generalisation in the bit you quoted. If you read for comprehension, you'd have noticed that. The only duck sound you heard was your voice trying to escape from your tightly clenched arse.

    That quote again in full...
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    It is hilarious to hear English complain about Yank tourists given the English behaving badly on holiday reputation.

    Some English? All English? What behaviour in particular? Could you be more explicit?

    Or you could, you know, apologise.
    Read. The. Fucking. Sentence.
    Simple thing for even such a simple mind.

    Let your own simple mind understand that "English" complaining is your lazy way of not naming the specific Shipmates (who happen to be English) that you were meaning to refer to.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Faroes aren't and never have been part of the UK - they're a self governing territory within the Kingdom of Denmark, so have closer ties to Scandinavia than us.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Faroes aren't and never have been part of the UK - they're an independent nation with closer ties to Scandinavia than us.

    The Faeroes are part of the Kingdom of Denmark.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    orfeo wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Faroes aren't and never have been part of the UK - they're an independent nation with closer ties to Scandinavia than us.

    The Faeroes are part of the Kingdom of Denmark.

    You were quick. I've corrected my earlier error following a niggle at the back of my mind after I'd posted.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Sheer chance because I was already here, and relatively well versed in matters Danish.

    Mind you, I gather that the Faroese are quite clear that they are not Danish.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    I should add there's a stereotype/reputation of "the Ugly American", the sort of tourist some on this thread have mentioned, who wants everything to be American and doesn't care about the local people and culture.

    Then again, some mainland Americans behave that way in Hawai'i, too. The worst I've heard: a white, mainland couple was in a department store, bumped into a Hawai'ian woman, and asked her to dance the hula! :anguished: Worse, it was one of the Trask sisters--activists for Hawai'ian sovereignty. The article didn't state what happened after that, but I wish I'd seen it.

    One more thing: most (mainland?) Americans don't ever get a chance to travel outside the US, and even fewer go beyond Canada and Mexico. Partly due to travel expenses. (Look at a map to see how very far we have to go.). And partly because we get very little paid vacation. Some people save their whole working lives to take a short vacation in Hawai'i.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    orfeo wrote: »
    Sheer chance because I was already here, and relatively well versed in matters Danish.

    Mind you, I gather that the Faroese are quite clear that they are not Danish.

    Indeed. Just been down the rabbit hole. They declared independence in 1946 but it didn't take. Bizarrely, the Faroe Islands are not part of the EU, even though Denmark is.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    One more thing: most (mainland?) Americans don't ever get a chance to travel outside the US, and even fewer go beyond Canada and Mexico. Partly due to travel expenses. (Look at a map to see how very far we have to go.). And partly because we get very little paid vacation. Some people save their whole working lives to take a short vacation in Hawai'i.

    Yes, I'm come to realise this over time, partly aided by own trip to the USA. For one thing, the USA is not only vast but quite diverse in and of itself. Having started in southern California, Vermont only seems technically like the same country.

    So that's one thing reducing the desire to travel internationally. But the sheer inability to actually take some leave to travel must be the biggest factor. The looks on people's faces as I explained how I was spending 3 months in North America during a 6-month break from work, still on half pay, were usually complete astonishment.

  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    Sheer chance because I was already here, and relatively well versed in matters Danish.

    Mind you, I gather that the Faroese are quite clear that they are not Danish.

    Indeed. Just been down the rabbit hole. They declared independence in 1946 but it didn't take. Bizarrely, the Faroe Islands are not part of the EU, even though Denmark is.

    Whereas Iceland got away with declaring full independence in 1944.

    People told me I should go to the Faroes after I got a CD from there... I've vaguely wondered just how many Faroese albums exist in the country. Not many.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    I've often meant to ask - with this shortage of paid leave, quite apart from travel how do you guys do stuff? - who looks after the kids during school holidays for example?
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Australians have a bad reputation in Bali, where cheap holidays can be had. One of my mates is mad on the place. He goes there every time he has a break, and is mates with a few locals. I even have an idea that he is getting into the Balinese variant of Hinduism,based on his facebook posts. My other mate, who knows him better, says that's not what's happening but I kind of hope it is, on the basis that getting in touch with his spiritual side would be a good thing.
  • I put my hand up to saying that some American tourists give Americans a bad name and I'll agree that some English tourists give Britons a bad name too. I still have nightmares following being harangued for 20 minutes on all the ills of London as seen by an American who wouldn't let me say anything in return, like "Can I get the manager for you?", with "No, missy, don't you interrupt me!"

    Living for a couple of years in one of the London tourist hot spots it got very wearing not being able to walk more than a few steps before someone else asked directions. Here, with very few visitors, I'd probably offer to show them round and enjoy discussing the local history, but in a busy tourist area it just wasn't possible to help the tourists and do anything else. But some, particularly American tourists, seemed to expect that hospitality would be on offer. And it's true, now, many years later, some tourist hot spots, like Oxford and Piccadilly Circus, have uniformed street guides who are employed to help tourists with any problems (maybe learning the lessons of the Olympics).

    My daughter has a story of an American tourist asking her how to get to the castle in Nottingham and not taking "I don't know" for an answer. It's complicated to travel there by public transport if you don't use the trams and my daughter really didn't know; she was a student there and hadn't been interested in visiting the Castle. She answered politely the first two times: "Sorry, I can't help, but the tourist information is over there and will be able to show you". The third time of asking she got fed up and said, "I don't fucking know, go ask someone else," and she got an affronted response for swearing in front of the tourist's child. But if the woman had two hours in Nottingham and a list of things to see, half an hour queuing in the tourist information bureau might well eat into the list. Because the relatively short distances between things in the UK does not translate into fast travel between them.

    I suspect one of the pressures on some American tourists in London and elsewhere is that they are on their once in a lifetime trip, they have a long itinerary which cannot be realistically covered in the time and internal pressure to see these things while they can. So maybe in these cases, what looks to them like locals holding out on them and not being hospitable by not showing them what they are trying to find is adding to that internal pressure.
  • I think that's right, CK.

    Unlike Pangolin Guerre, I don't see this as a Pond War. I wouldn't be at all surprised if US and other tourists get a shitty time in London or Oxford. I've also seen British tourists, from both ends of the social scale, behaving abominably in Europe.

    My impression is that independent travellers who get off the beaten track don't have anywhere near as many problems. I remember an American professor telling me how many of his students had been welcomed in for tea when traveling in Wales, Ireland or Scotland. I doubt that happens as much now as it used to.

    I cringe with embarrassment at some of the things Twilight has shared. I'd love to make it up to Mr and Mrs Twilight in some way.

    It has to be said, though, that some of our arcane habits must be baffling to visitors. I've seen French and German families sat glumly in Cotswolds pubs for instance, wondering when someone would actually come over and serve them. Clue: you order at the bar.

    Overall, I think it's tragic that the most many visitors get to see is Pica-bloody-dilly Circus, Leicester Bleedin' Square, The Houses of Parliament and a hotel bedroom that's too small to lie down in.
  • Nobody drinks like a Canuck?

    Well, if they drink Beer and Tomato Juice, I'm not remotely surprised ...

    There. I've just nudged the Pond War over the 49th Parallel. Happy now?

    I can't say as I've noticed Canadians being big drinkers, not that I've met very many over here. Those I have met have invariably been delightful.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    I can't believe that I've read through his thread... You, all, are a bunch of assholes. Lilbuddha, where the fuck does Buddha come into your persona? Really? Explain that. Your resort to "read for comprehension" is a repetitive, condescending non-response. Just fuck off. The rest of you - get your act in order. This is the most pointless pond war that I've ever witnessed on the Ship. All of you, just fucking grow up and find something better to do with your time. I'm flouncing off to lurk in Kerygmania, where I might actually learn something useful or interesting, rather than staying here, which only confirms my already dour opinion of humans.

    Yes, it is, but I'm desperately grateful for it. My brother just called me and said he had read that the best preventative for Alzheimers is to engage in group discussion. My family has been giving me Alzheimer prevention tips for years, something to do with my history of "daydreams in class" written on every report card and a legend of me putting the butter in the clothes hamper while clearing the table ... just the one time!

    We're enjoying ourselves! Curiosity Killed's stories are turning me to the other side. Have fun in Kerygmania -- they have a reputation down there for making the non-experts feel like idiots.


  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Nevermind, I just took a glance down there at Keryg and saw that woman isn't there anymore. The one with all the M's in her name. It's been years but I still feel the burn.
  • MMMMMM Shipmate
    Please, Miss, not me, Miss, I’ve never spent much time in Kerygmania and would never dream of posting there.

    MMM
  • Nobody drinks like a Canuck?

    Well, if they drink Beer and Tomato Juice, I'm not remotely surprised ...

    There. I've just nudged the Pond War over the 49th Parallel. Happy now?

    I can't say as I've noticed Canadians being big drinkers, not that I've met very many over here. Those I have met have invariably been delightful.

    Hahaha. I love a fellow traveller who takes things as seriously as they should be taken.

    To clarify a red eye (beer and tomato juice) is a fine breakfast drink. Oh to be young again and need this hangover cure!
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    Sheer chance because I was already here, and relatively well versed in matters Danish.

    Mind you, I gather that the Faroese are quite clear that they are not Danish.

    Indeed. Just been down the rabbit hole. They declared independence in 1946 but it didn't take. Bizarrely, the Faroe Islands are not part of the EU, even though Denmark is.
    The Faroe Islands had a short shot at fame here when it was suggested that they provide an option whereby Scotland could be in the EU while the rest of the UK goes it alone - described as the "reverse Faroe approach" (or something like that). Of course, it's a bonkers idea but not as bonkers as leaving the EU without even attempting to sort out a deal.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    MMM wrote: »
    Please, Miss, not me, Miss, I’ve never spent much time in Kerygmania and would never dream of posting there.

    MMM

    Never you, dear! Your name always makes me think of Minnesota and the 3 M Scotch tape and post-it company, so vital to us all. No her name was something like Mary Magdalene Magnolia.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    orfeo wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    I'm going for the latter, tbh. Quacks like duck.

    Listen you fucking muppet. I didn't make any generalisation in the bit you quoted. If you read for comprehension, you'd have noticed that. The only duck sound you heard was your voice trying to escape from your tightly clenched arse.

    That quote again in full...
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    It is hilarious to hear English complain about Yank tourists given the English behaving badly on holiday reputation.

    Some English? All English? What behaviour in particular? Could you be more explicit?

    Or you could, you know, apologise.
    Read. The. Fucking. Sentence.
    Simple thing for even such a simple mind.

    Let your own simple mind understand that "English" complaining is your lazy way of not naming the specific Shipmates (who happen to be English) that you were meaning to refer to.
    Good lord, but stupid pills are in abundance on this thread. I did not refer to or mean any shipmates, nor in the bit quoted actually make a generalisation at all. Lazy are those not reading for fucking context and those letting their prejudice flavour their interpretation.
  • Twilight wrote: »
    MMM wrote: »
    Please, Miss, not me, Miss, I’ve never spent much time in Kerygmania and would never dream of posting there.

    MMM

    Never you, dear! Your name always makes me think of Minnesota and the 3 M Scotch tape and post-it company, so vital to us all. No her name was something like Mary Magdalene Magnolia.
    Lynn MagdalenCollege?
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    I suspect one of the pressures on some American tourists in London and elsewhere is that they are on their once in a lifetime trip, they have a long itinerary which cannot be realistically covered in the time and internal pressure to see these things while they can. So maybe in these cases, what looks to them like locals holding out on them and not being hospitable by not showing them what they are trying to find is adding to that internal pressure.
    On top of trying to do everything, the once in a lifetime trip brings with it expectations of perfection that life cannot match. Americans general lack of travel, often even within the US, means that they may not have the experience of dealing with other cultures. And no experience of navigating in a foreign environment.
    British reputation comes from the opposite end. Travel to places like Magaluf is so easy, people who do not care about the travel/people/culture as much as a warm place to get drunk and behave badly go there and act a fool.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    Lynn MagdalenCollege?
    Yes! Thank you!

  • MMMMMM Shipmate
    Twilight,

    I read out your post to Macarius & asked him how he thought I should reply. He said it was a sticky situation, but that I wasn’t that stuck up and if I only adhered to it, that would scotch it.

    By that point, I was trying to shut him up....

    MMM
  • Twilight wrote: »
    Lynn MagdalenCollege?
    Yes! Thank you!
    As far as I know she hasn't come over to the new Ship, certainly not under that name. But, she'd been inactive on the Old Ship for a couple of years before the move anyway.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I've often meant to ask - with this shortage of paid leave, quite apart from travel how do you guys do stuff? - who looks after the kids during school holidays for example?

    We'd like to know this, too.

    In my own family growing up--we had a succession of highly unsatisfactory teenage babysitters (you know, got caught having sex on the couch with the kids around, that sort of thing) and then at age 10, my mother decided I was old enough to watch, cook for and feed the other two (9 and 6). My niece is doing much the same thing right now with her two boys. The eldest is I think 12.

    For younger children, one works out a haphazard series of places to "stash" them, which may include Grandma, a neighbor family with an adult at home, a summer camp (alas, all too short--usually two weeks--and generally 9 to 3 or so each day, which means being late to the office and early out (much frowned upon by supervisors!) or paying extravagant rates for before and aftercare (assuming it's provided, which it isn't, sometimes). In a few (hopefully rare) cases, people have been known to bring their kids to work, or to put them in the car outside with strict orders not to get into trouble or talk to strangers (yeah, I'm horrified too). The basic assumption of managers etc. across the board is, "You chose to have a child, you deal with the fall-out." Which explains our falling birth-rate, at least among those who plan.

    You can ask similar questions of "how do you manage to have surgery?" and the like. For the unprivileged among us, we blow our annual vacation on it (=two weeks, generally), and hope like hell we can get the scheduling right, and have no complications, and feel guilty about destroying the family chance to go anywhere or do anything else that year.

    I tell you, it sucks.

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    I can't believe that I've read through his thread... You, all, are a bunch of assholes. Lilbuddha, where the fuck does Buddha come into your persona? Really? Explain that. Your resort to "read for comprehension" is a repetitive, condescending non-response. Just fuck off. The rest of you - get your act in order. This is the most pointless pond war that I've ever witnessed on the Ship. All of you, just fucking grow up and find something better to do with your time. I'm flouncing off to lurk in Kerygmania, where I might actually learn something useful or interesting, rather than staying here, which only confirms my already dour opinion of humans.

    What the fuck did you expect from Hell? Did your mama drop you on your head?
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    I've often meant to ask - with this shortage of paid leave, quite apart from travel how do you guys do stuff? - who looks after the kids during school holidays for example?

    We'd like to know this, too.

    In my own family growing up--we had a succession of highly unsatisfactory teenage babysitters (you know, got caught having sex on the couch with the kids around, that sort of thing) and then at age 10, my mother decided I was old enough to watch, cook for and feed the other two (9 and 6). My niece is doing much the same thing right now with her two boys. The eldest is I think 12.

    For younger children, one works out a haphazard series of places to "stash" them, which may include Grandma, a neighbor family with an adult at home, a summer camp (alas, all too short--usually two weeks--and generally 9 to 3 or so each day, which means being late to the office and early out (much frowned upon by supervisors!) or paying extravagant rates for before and aftercare (assuming it's provided, which it isn't, sometimes). In a few (hopefully rare) cases, people have been known to bring their kids to work, or to put them in the car outside with strict orders not to get into trouble or talk to strangers (yeah, I'm horrified too). The basic assumption of managers etc. across the board is, "You chose to have a child, you deal with the fall-out." Which explains our falling birth-rate, at least among those who plan.

    You can ask similar questions of "how do you manage to have surgery?" and the like. For the unprivileged among us, we blow our annual vacation on it (=two weeks, generally), and hope like hell we can get the scheduling right, and have no complications, and feel guilty about destroying the family chance to go anywhere or do anything else that year.

    I tell you, it sucks.

    We feel your pain.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    Everything Lamb Chopped says is true. I've used annual vacation for surgery, but most often to go visit my parents in the next state, only I usually only had one week per year because we moved a lot and I was usually a "new" employee.

    In keeping with my Walmart dispatches: Son says yesterday a fellow employee got mad because the boss wouldn't give her time off for her uncle's funeral so she rebelled by not wearing her mask. I don't quite see her point but I feel her pain, too.

    @MMM LOL
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