VE Day celebrations

ChoristerChorister Shipmate
What did you do? What did you watch? What did you see when out on your walk?
We played (recorder and oboe) for the people in our street to sing along to wartime favourites. A neighbour baked cakes and passed them around. Then we came indoors to watch what was a very excellent programme by the BBC, from 8-9.10, with Katharine Jenkins, The Queen, historic footage, interviews of our heroes - the sort of thing the BBC does best.
How about you?
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Comments

  • No sign of any commemorations around here, but I haven't been out on the street today.

    Mr RoS didn't see anything unusual while he was out for his walk, but I wouldn't expect him to unless someone actually tied him up with a length of bunting.

    I caught a few of the many VE day items on the television news programmes, but didn't watch the BBC's evening-long celebrations.
    Feeling a bit cynical about the coverage. It seems a bit forced now, not being able to have the mass crowd-centred jollifications as the event we are remembering. And I think they have wrung just about as much footage from Captain Tom as they possibly could, and then some. Poor man must be exhausted from all the attention!

    I forgot about the Queen's speech at 9pm, so watched that online about an a hour ago.
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    I watched an online service from the cathedral this morning, then the local Vicar ‘s effort (and wished I hadn’t), saw various TV programmes but not the main evening one on BBC1 as DH would have nothing to do with the” celebrations” which he thought totally inappropriate. I did switch over for the Queen but our Tv lost signal part way through.
    I gather from the Local Facebook page that there was a ceremony from the British Legion local president with bugler, much bunting, street parties in various front gardens, and a fair bit of singing.

    On the one hand it seemed good for community spirit, but maybe we should have waited till VJ Day in August.
  • I did nothing for VE day on principle. I have very mixed feelings about it. On the one hand it celebrates the liberation of much of Europe from an abnoxious dictator (but what did we do about Spain and Portugal?) Then, almost immediately, we handed a large part of "liberated" Europe over to a different obnoxious dictator. I do not find anything in that to celebrate.
  • I saw the nearby street, which had been planning to close for a street party, plus a couple of others when out walking this afternoon and wasn't happy about the jingoism of much of the decoration. The party went ahead and the noise of the music outside has only just quietened.

    My walk this afternoon took me through the local cemetery where the Commonwealth War Graves are nearly half for Polish air crew and the graves in the next door village churchyard over are notable for the number of European Commonwealth War Graves. There's a nearby old airfield was where the Norwegian pilots lived and flew from, as did Polish and Czech pilots. It felt like an opportunity missed, but this area had a high Brexit vote.
  • I'll correct that to say that the 42 Commonwealth War Graves in the next village church across includes Polish, Canadian and Australian graves, the casualties from the nearby airfields (two of them). Here we've got 19, 7 of which are for Poles.
  • My late mother talked of going to school in Rockcliffe Park, Ottawa with the Dutch royal family. My father in law fought with the Regina Rifles in the the liberation of the Netherlands. My father's family was carpet bombed into oblivion in the Rhineland, while he trained in Canada to fight against his cousins in an invasion of Norway on skis which never happened. Sure it matters. But it matters differently as time goes on. As in, nothing learned, nothing changed except the means to harm each other.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Suspended
    Not entirely sure it related to VE celebrations, but late this afternoon I overheard a French horn* rendition of "The White Cliffs of Dover" followed by "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" with what sounded like socially distanced applause.

    Rather touching and easily the most un-Glastonbury thing I've heard in the eighteen months I've been here.

    *At least, I think it was a French horn.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    I watched this. And feel that I have celebrated the anniversary appropriately.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Then, almost immediately, we handed a large part of "liberated" Europe over to a different obnoxious dictator. I do not find anything in that to celebrate.

    Who exactly is "we" in that sentence? The portions of Europe that were "handed over" to Stalin were liberated by the Red Army.

    On another note, there is now only one surviving veteran of the Battle of Britain.
  • Fawkes CatFawkes Cat Shipmate
    I'm pretty sure that I am out of step with the national mood here, but the whole thing disturbs me. Even on the face of it, it's all about celebrating something that happened a lifetime - three generations - ago, and the way the celebration was done made it all about Britain - not about the multi-national alliance that won the war.

    And that feels wrong. For sure, it was better that the allies won the war: the half a loaf of a Europe (and a world) divided between capitalism/democracy led by the USA and communism/authoritarianism led by the USSR and China was surely better than a wholly authoritarian and dictatorial world led by Germany and Japan. And let's overlook the many British (as well as allied) troops who fought on and suffered until VJ Day. But the whole thing was about past glories, not about building a better future.

    If the UK has no future then it makes sense to glory in our past. But if we are to have a future, then we need to get everyone on board in building it. And we don't do that by spending all day looking at the past, somehow assuming that it was better then and we just need to head back to it.

    The Covid-19 outbreak has a very few benefits: it has led to some new pieces in the Guardian by Nancy Banks-Smith for example. For me, being excused from having to go and ring the bells for the phony VE Day events was another.
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    I have a subscription to the British newspaper archive, and so my initial plan was to delve into it to produce some cheerful content for our church and/or community website / facebook pages. I thought this would be easy.

    I got off to a flying start - I found an excellent photo of a piper from the village in Normandy in 1944, ironing the pleats of his kilt. It was an official photograph for newspaper release. I forwarded it to the Pipe Band, who put it on their facebook page. 68 likes so far. Exactly what I was aiming for.

    Then I found a "letter to the editor" from someone whose house I can see as I sit here, complaining about the trashy dance music played on the radio on VE Day. She complained that the "Government -controlled" BBC's "idea of rousing victory music" made her melancholy. Not what I was looking for for church / community content, but I thought it was funny so I put it on my own Facebook page.

    This produced a response from the son of the second-oldest member of our congregation saying that his father "doesn't buy into the VE Day fuss" as his recollection of VE Day as a member of the forces was the expectation that they would be redeployed to the bloodbath of fighting Japan.

    I ploughed on looking for cheerful content. I found a newspaper piece from 12 May 1945, praising VE Day in my village, which involved "decorous jollity, no drunkeness and a service of thanksgiving in the church" There was also a comment that, as the Polish servicemen stationed here sang their national anthem every day during drill, the Polish anthem was sung better than "God Save the King" By the time the day was out, a "Welcome Home" fund had been started for returning servicemen.

    I had found my content for the church FB page. No tale of wild celebration, but a church service and singing in Polish.

    It's not what I had expected, but here in the North East Household we will raise a glass with the toast "Na Zdrowie"!
  • I don't think you're out of step. I ranted on the Today I Call to Hell thread about the local celebrations - the ones that still happened. Remembering the dead, those who were still serving, fine, but this excuse for glorification, no.

    The thing I like, and wish we did more is The Big Lunch, which is a street party intended to build community without adding any other accretions. Having found it still exists, I might suggest my little street does it as a street party, individual picnics, socially distanced chat and all.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Nothing around here, as far as I could see (or hear), except for some distant fireworks at about 9pm.

    There was some sort of online service from the Cathedral, but I gave it a miss. I'm afraid I'm with others on this thread who find the jingoism all rather OTT and phony.

    Our Place's oldest member (born 1924) was asked if he would like to share reminiscences of VE Day, with FatherInCharge, but he firmly declined.

    (BTW, my late Father never liked to talk about The War, and neither did my late Father-in-law...but he had been a PoW in Burma...).
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    I didn't like the idea of jingoistic street parties either, but there was one chap round the corner who brought his keyboard out and played wartime music.
    However, there was a very good commemoration service at the war memorial, I think organised by the local British Legion, with the playing of the Last Post. I think prayers were also said at the local cemetery where there are graves of German and Italian prisoners of war, who died of illnesses before they could be sent home.
    I went up to another local churchyard to find the grave of "Johnny the Pilot", a Polish airman who settled locally after the war. His real name was Waclaw Janek Moszczynski.
    My grandad died in 1940, just after he had joined up, so I put the telegram from the King in my front window.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    We didn’t do anything special. But I did raise a glass to Mum and Dad and thought about the wartime memories they shared with us.
  • I'm with Fawkes Cat on this, even though the liberation of Europe is a big thing for me. As many here know, my newly-married parents came to Britain from Germany at the end of 1938, my father (a doctor) having already spent a short time in Dachau. Along with many other foreign nationals he joined the Pioneer Corps and was posted to several locations around Britain including firewatching in Rotherhithe during the Blitz. He was discharged from the Army in 1944 and joined a medical practice - presumably there was a shortage of doctors in Britain as so many had joined up; he I imagine could not be deployed overseas.

    They certainly turned their back on all that Germany had stood for and in many ways became very British; however they did not disdain their essential Germanness and had no compunction about visiting. However my mother to her dying day was dismissive of German people from her own age group who said, "We never realised what was going on". She didn't mind people who said, "We saw what was going on but were too frightened to speak out".
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    VE day is a public holiday every year here. I don't think anything was all that different to usual (well, if you discount the lockdown...).

    It's worth noting that our big spectacle of military pomp is on the National Holiday (14 July / storming of the Bastille) rather than any war-related date.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    I can understand why France marks VE Day, given the suffering the French endured During The War, but I can also understand why the Big Day is 14th July! I guess that date marks the beginning of modern France, IYSWIM.

    I wonder what the celebrations will be like this July?
  • The Channel Islands are celebrating Liberation Day today. Now that really does mean something!
  • The Netherlands celebrated their liberation day on 5th May, which again made sense.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Fawkes Cat wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that I am out of step with the national mood here, but the whole thing disturbs me. Even on the face of it, it's all about celebrating something that happened a lifetime - three generations - ago, and the way the celebration was done made it all about Britain - not about the multi-national alliance that won the war.

    It could be argued that Britain actually lost the Second World War. The immediate strategic aim of the war, from the British perspective of September 1939, was the restoration of Polish independence. The larger goal, from the viewpoint of grand strategy, was to preserve the British Empire by checking the rise of revisionist states like Nazi Germany. Judged by the outcome (Poland a client state, Empire dissolved) the war failed to achieve Britain's desired ends.
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    I don't think VE Day was marked at all in Australia apart from a couple of reports on the ABC news and a brief mention of the Queen's message. Coming so soon after our ANZAC Day commemoration and in the midst of Coronavirus somehow it just disappeared into the background.
  • Fawkes CatFawkes Cat Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Fawkes Cat wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that I am out of step with the national mood here, but the whole thing disturbs me. Even on the face of it, it's all about celebrating something that happened a lifetime - three generations - ago, and the way the celebration was done made it all about Britain - not about the multi-national alliance that won the war.

    It could be argued that Britain actually lost the Second World War. The immediate strategic aim of the war, from the British perspective of September 1939, was the restoration of Polish independence. The larger goal, from the viewpoint of grand strategy, was to preserve the British Empire by checking the rise of revisionist states like Nazi Germany. Judged by the outcome (Poland a client state, Empire dissolved) the war failed to achieve Britain's desired ends.

    It could be so argued. But given the countries that lost rather more absolutely, it seems rather perverse to do so.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Suspended
    My reading of history is that the UK only went to war when (a) it felt it had no choice and (b) rearmament, particularly of the RAF, was sufficiently underway.

    In hindsight, there had been an over-estimation of Nazi war capabilities (especially of the Luftwaffe and bombers) and Germany might have been defeated much earlier had Britain gone to war in, say, 1937/38.

    Though you could also argue that Germany lost the war through its catastrophically misjudged invasion of Russia.
  • I cannot help feeling that Covid19 has saved us from much worse, from a frenzy of nationalism led by Boris as St George slaying the European dragon whilst singing "We'll Meet Again". Though I did think it was unusually humble of Nigel Farage to put a message out on Twitter, considering that his side lost.

    I wonder who will remember VJ Day? No doubt Captain Tom will, if he makes it that far, but I can't help feeling that once again the armies in the far East (drawn from five continents) who were still fihting an implacable enemy on May 8th will be forgotten.

    I had planned to stand on the pub doorstep my father stood on on VE day, and have the pint he couldn't have because he was only 14, as much in memory of him as the occasion, but it wasn't to be.

    AG
  • ChoristerChorister Shipmate
    I'm sure people have made more of VE Day because of the parallels drawn with Covid19 Lockdown hardships. There seems to be a renewed respect for the elderly and all that they have done in their lifetime. As Covid19 seems to disproportionately affect the elderly, a desire to protect them has arisen in recent months, and an interest in valuing the stories they have to tell.

    It was very different in the not-too-distant past, where older people were seen as a nuisance, ruining the lives of the young, spending their money and *shock horror* daring to live too long. And always going on about the blasted war.

    Fortunately, our society has turned out to be more caring.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    This has reminded me that when I began, on VE day leave, Dad had in mind that he would be called to go to the East to fight Japan. He only mentioned that once, during an argument with my sister about August 6th, when he said how relieved he had been by the bombs.
  • Indeed. We will never know whether the horrors inflicted on Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have been worse than the horrors had the allies invaded. We can guess, but we will never know.

    AG
  • PriscillaPriscilla Shipmate
    Why celebrate the 75th anniversary? I can see why 50th or 100th, but 75th?
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    Possibly because it is the last big number when there is a decent hope that someone who fought may still be alive.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    Also probably the last ‘big’ number when any are left who still remember the original VE day.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    We stood on our front step and drank a glass of bubbly withour neighbours, and chatted. One neighbour had managed to find some red-white-and blue bunting. we didn't have any flag except our (rather faded) EU one, which we planted in a flower pot, amidst general agreement that it was appropriate.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I was disappointed by the extent to which people seemed to think Britain won the war, going by the presence of Union Flag themed decorations to the exclusion of all else.

    Britain didn't win. The Allies won.
  • Yes, but the Allies were mostly Horrid Foreign People Not Like Us...
    :disappointed:
  • jay_emmjay_emm Shipmate
    Yes, on the one hand it is a nice reminiscence of the original on the streets.
    But the FB ones did seem a bit in dire need of variation (my post celebrated people from across the commonwealth and beyond, America slightly lost out till VJ day, but was still there, I'm not sure if others noticed and how they reacted)
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    In a way, VE Day was a disaster from which Britain has never recovered. It bred a sense that the world owed us a living, and we were and could remain a global Great Power indefinitely
  • ChoristerChorister Shipmate
    In my town, I counted hundreds of Union Jacks but only one European flag. So you are not quite alone Eirenist (unless you live in my town, of course).
  • Chorister wrote: »
    In my town, I counted hundreds of Union Jacks but only one European flag. So you are not quite alone Eirenist (unless you live in my town, of course).

    If one was wishing to fly flags commemorating VE, the flags of the Allied nations seem like a reasonable choice. The flags of a subset of those nations whose citizens are actually present at a particular celebration also seem reasonable.

    The EU flag - representing as it does some victorious countries, some liberated countries, and some defeated countries, would be an odd choice. As a "war is shit, let's not do that again" political statement, it works. As a celebration of VE, not so much.
  • My reading of history is that the UK only went to war when (a) it felt it had no choice and (b) rearmament, particularly of the RAF, was sufficiently underway.

    In hindsight, there had been an over-estimation of Nazi war capabilities (especially of the Luftwaffe and bombers) and Germany might have been defeated much earlier had Britain gone to war in, say, 1937/38.

    Though you could also argue that Germany lost the war through its catastrophically misjudged invasion of Russia.

    You need to read The Audit of War by Corelli Barnett and Churchill's The Gathering Storm. The RAF was still relying on bi-planes until the end of 1938, the Hurricane only entering service at Christmas 1937 and the Spitfire in August 1938. Due to cuts in personnel the RAF had fewer trained pilots at the end of 1937 than the Hitler Youth. The army wasn't much better, with troops in 1937 being issued with weapons that were being superseded in 1918.

    The only reason why the BEF stayed in France until May/June 1940 was because Germany had been concentrating on Poland and then Norway and Denmark. We, and our French and Belgian allies, were ill-equipped to fight a war based on the trench warfare of WWI: we were wholly unprepared to fight the Blitzkrieg pattern of warfare offered by the Third Reich in 1940. The idea that an earlier attempt to take on the thoroughly modernised German army in 1937 or 38 might have been anything other than a catastrophe is laughable.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    There were natives of most European countries engaged on the Allied side. As there were were on the Nazi side, I think.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Suspended
    edited May 2020
    My reading of history is that the UK only went to war when (a) it felt it had no choice and (b) rearmament, particularly of the RAF, was sufficiently underway.

    In hindsight, there had been an over-estimation of Nazi war capabilities (especially of the Luftwaffe and bombers) and Germany might have been defeated much earlier had Britain gone to war in, say, 1937/38.

    Though you could also argue that Germany lost the war through its catastrophically misjudged invasion of Russia.

    You need to read The Audit of War by Corelli Barnett and Churchill's The Gathering Storm. The RAF was still relying on bi-planes until the end of 1938, the Hurricane only entering service at Christmas 1937 and the Spitfire in August 1938. Due to cuts in personnel the RAF had fewer trained pilots at the end of 1937 than the Hitler Youth. The army wasn't much better, with troops in 1937 being issued with weapons that were being superseded in 1918.

    The only reason why the BEF stayed in France until May/June 1940 was because Germany had been concentrating on Poland and then Norway and Denmark. We, and our French and Belgian allies, were ill-equipped to fight a war based on the trench warfare of WWI: we were wholly unprepared to fight the Blitzkrieg pattern of warfare offered by the Third Reich in 1940. The idea that an earlier attempt to take on the thoroughly modernised German army in 1937 or 38 might have been anything other than a catastrophe is laughable.

    point taken
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    There were natives of most European countries engaged on the Allied side. As there were were on the Nazi side, I think.

    There were natives of the American South who fought on the side of the Union in the US civil war. They are not commemorated by waving the banner of the Confederacy.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    The EU flag - representing as it does some victorious countries, some liberated countries, and some defeated countries, would be an odd choice. As a "war is shit, let's not do that again" political statement, it works. As a celebration of VE, not so much.

    And of course, the EU did not exist in 1945. To have flown the flags of all the Allied countries would have been suitable though.
  • One house locally had several flags of the Allies: France, Ireland, Wales, Union Jack and a few more. I suspect they are French, as the big flag up was the tricolour. Quite a few had red, white and blue bunting, or homemade fabric scrap bunting, all of which felt appropriate and less exclusive. And the next door road had named teddy bears for the children to collect.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    We do not have the flags of all the Allied countries. Those who fought on the Allied side in the 39-45 War were led to believe they were doing so to help make the world a better place. The EU represents my view of a better place. Others are free to disagree, thanks to the Allied victory. Enough said, I think.
  • MMMMMM Shipmate
    We found we have acquired a Sri Lankan flag somewhere along the way, and wondered whether to put that up, just confuse people.

    MMM
  • Save it for VJ day? The RBL (British Legion) are planning celebrations.
  • MMMMMM Shipmate
    It was only ever going to be jokey, CK.

    MMM
  • I realised, and my answer was tongue-in-cheek, however it came over. But I also looked up the RBL plans and thought we deserved advance warning.

    I went on a very windy* walk around the local cemetery looking for all the Commonwealth War Graves. I knew about the little row of 12, including the 7 Polish, relatively new gravestones, as it's near the back gate we enter through (on a circular walk), but when I looked it up to post, there are 19 listed. I found 18, including 3 WW1 graves, a Commonwealth stone added to a family plot and two other much older stones, but I am still missing one.

    * avoiding trees as we were expecting a few more to come down and preferred not to be near.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    One house locally had several flags of the Allies: France, Ireland, Wales, Union Jack and a few more.

    Ireland was neutral in World War II, not one of the Allies.
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