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Bread making šŸž

BoogieBoogie Shipmate
edited May 2020 in Heaven
I’ve made my own bread for years, I’m allergic to the preservative they put in bought bread.

Flour and yeast are hard to come by just now so I thought I’d start a thread about ways round this - and to share places we can find flour - plus how you make your bread.

This post has me experimenting with sugar and dried yeast.

Thank you @Alan Cresswell !
If you can get hold of dried yeast, you can take some into sugary water and let it grow. Use some of it for your bread and leave the rest growing. That will allow a small quantity of dried yeast last a lot longer. The trick is finding the yeast in the first place ...




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Comments

  • You need to make soda bread. This will give you a medium size loaf:

    6oz plain flour
    6oz self-raising flour
    1/2 teaspoon salt
    1/2 teaspoon bicarbonate of soda
    1/2 pint buttermilk*

    Combine dry ingredients in large bowl, leaving a well in the centre into which you pour the buttermilk. Mix with a knife (be quick) until you have dough - add a drop of milk if too dry - then tip onto floured board to knead for a couple of minutes before rollung into a large ball. Put onto floured baking sheet, flatten flightly and cut cross across top and pop into moderate oven (AGA bottom of roasting oven, Gas 6, Fan 180) for half-an-hour until it sounds hollow when tapped.

    * if you can't get buttermilk whisk 2 tablespoons of lemon juice into half-a-pint of full-fat milk.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    You can make soda bread with ordinary flour (if you have any). Or go all Biblical and make unleavened bread (lots of recipes for pitta bread and naan bread out there). A friend of mine has been making farls, which use ordinary flour as well iirc.

    Tesco have been selling flour in 16 kilo bags... I haven't bought one because I have nowhere to store that much, but I was tempted...
  • Tortillas are pretty easy with a bit of practice. Warm some water, add a little salt, baking powder and oil then add some flour. Stir into a paste and then gradually add more flour until you have the beginnings of a dough. Knead and keep adding flour until the dough comes away from the bowl (and your hands!) clean. Separate into one inch balls and cover the balls closely with cling film to stop them drying out (I just leave them in the bowl but they can sometimes get a bit stuck together). Heat a dry frying pan, medium-high on gas, probably high on electric and let it get to temperature. Once the dough has stood for 10 minutes take a ball at a time and roll it out on a floured surface or board. Once it's large enough to cover the bottom of the frying pan drop it in, turning it once bubbles start to appear on the surface. Give it no more than 20-30 seconds on the second side before transferring to a cooling rack. The time to cook one is roughly the same as the time to roll out the next. If you find they come out dry you've got the heat too low, if they're singing too much you've got it too high. You can stack them up on the cooling rack without issue, and they freeze very well in bags if you make more than you need.

    I have a good naan recipe too but it is yeasted.
  • Boogie wrote: Ā»
    I’ve made my own bread for years, I’m allergic to the preservative they put in bought bread.

    Flour and yeast are hard to come by just now so I thought I’d start a thread about ways round this - and to share places we can find flour - plus how you make your bread.

    On the advice of a friend who is practiced with this, I followed the following recipes to make 2 breads so far (second this morning):

    https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/no-knead-sourdough-bread-recipe
    https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/sourdough-starter-recipe

    I was worried at first that I'd get lots of waste -- but have been using the discards in pancakes and naan.

    Only thing of note is that some flours seem to work better to feed the starter than others - so some trial and error was needed. I assume if you start off with dried yeast you essentially end up in the same scenario anyway, as sourdough is just a colony of natural yeast.
  • Soda bread is good; I used to make it with bicarb and yoghurt. Very fizzy.
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    If you live in an old house, where baking has been done for years, you can make sourdough starter by mixing white flour with warm water in a sterile container, covering it lightly, and letting it sit for a few days.

    I make just enough starter for what I'm planning to bake. I don't bother to save it.
  • 16kg bags are available from a variety of sources online including the Amazon (early in lockdown they had none but some major bakery suppliers have started selling sacks there recently). Before lockdown we regularly bought sacks of chapatti flour from Tesco.
    Husband is the baker here and currently has yeast, having killed his last sourdough. I like making flatbreads, though I sometimes make naan or focaccia. Paul Hollywood’s crumpet recipe is my favourite bread thing. Alas I need to reduce my carbs for health reasons though.
  • @Jane R - 16 kilos does seem a lot, but might it be possible to buy one jointly with another nearby bread-maker?

    A friend of mine, whose lady wife is currently in a care home, has found he now has time to make his own bread, and seems to be making quite a good job of it, judging by photos(!).

    Not bad for a 70-year old ex-soldier/lorry driver...
    :wink:

    I don't know where he buys the flour - he lives almost next door to a large Asda, but I think supplies have been erratic.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I have never made bread with yeast, largely because it sounds fiddly, plus it never occurs to me to look for yeast in the supermarket, but I make a fluffy kind of flat bread with self raising flour and yogurt and/or warm water. It's nice, and can be used as a pizza base or eaten by itself. I added bicarb of soda one time too, and it was even fluffier, and not flat, so not really a flatbread. I sometimes add oats too, and grated cheese, and dried herbs/spices. Lately I've been adding nettles and wild garlic that I pick in the woods. I guess you can add anything that you feel like adding.
  • edited May 2020
    We've discussed before. For yeast-based 3, 2 lb loaves x 3. Total 9 loaves. Unless you like sour dough which isn't yeast but Lactobacillus. Lactob will increase over repeats

    1/4 tsp yeast
    3 cups water
    1.5 cups each whole wheat and white flour. Stir 100x same direction. Leave in kitchen covered until it rises and falls. 2 days.

    This I make into 3 loaves, saving a small handful of dough after second rising for next batch. The day of making, 1st rising is in the morning and depending on how warm house is, 2nd rise is 3 hours later and baking is 2 to 4 hours later. You can delay any step by putting in a fridge for 4 or 5 days. Save a small handful and use this in the next batch as starter. It gets more sour dough as you repeat. I don't like sour dough much as bread so I stop after 3rd go

    I buy 20kg bags of flour. 44 lbs. It's very cheap here. Local.

    If you don't have yeast. Soak 1/4 cup of raisins in 2/3 cup water until they float. Use that water at the beginning. And be patient.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Lots of great ideas - especially this one from @Bishops Finger
    @Jane R - 16 kilos does seem a lot, but might it be possible to buy one jointly with another nearby bread-maker?
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    In my search for the perfect cheeseburger, I recently made these and they were amazing and easier than I expected. They were also yummy toasted for breakfast next day. You do need to be able to obtain yeast and all purpose flour. I have a couple in my freezer for ease of cheeseburger production another time.

    I didn't bother with the sesame because I don't particularly like it. The only other thing I would change is that the recipe said to make 8 rolls but I thought they came out a bit small. I would make 6 next time.
  • fineline wrote: Ā»
    I have never made bread with yeast, largely because it sounds fiddly, plus it never occurs to me to look for yeast in the supermarket

    Bread with yeast can be dead simple tbh, prior to running out of yeast I was making this recipe regularly:

    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/olive-oil-bread
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    fineline wrote: Ā»
    I have never made bread with yeast, largely because it sounds fiddly, plus it never occurs to me to look for yeast in the supermarket

    Bread with yeast can be dead simple tbh, prior to running out of yeast I was making this recipe regularly:

    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/olive-oil-bread

    Thanks - I might try it sometime. It's the timing elements that tend to put me off, such as leaving something for an hour - If I leave something, I tend to forget all about it! I prefer to prepare and cook something all at once, with an easy end in sight right from the start.

  • fineline wrote: Ā»
    fineline wrote: Ā»
    I have never made bread with yeast, largely because it sounds fiddly, plus it never occurs to me to look for yeast in the supermarket

    Bread with yeast can be dead simple tbh, prior to running out of yeast I was making this recipe regularly:

    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/olive-oil-bread

    Thanks - I might try it sometime. It's the timing elements that tend to put me off, such as leaving something for an hour - If I leave something, I tend to forget all about it! I prefer to prepare and cook something all at once, with an easy end in sight right from the start.

    It's no big deal if you leave it a bit too long and it over-rises. It's not like leaving a roast in the oven too long.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    fineline wrote: Ā»
    fineline wrote: Ā»
    I have never made bread with yeast, largely because it sounds fiddly, plus it never occurs to me to look for yeast in the supermarket

    Bread with yeast can be dead simple tbh, prior to running out of yeast I was making this recipe regularly:

    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/olive-oil-bread

    Thanks - I might try it sometime. It's the timing elements that tend to put me off, such as leaving something for an hour - If I leave something, I tend to forget all about it! I prefer to prepare and cook something all at once, with an easy end in sight right from the start.

    I’m the same but I use timers a LOT šŸ™‚šŸ™‚

  • Elder Son reports having recently bought 2x16kg sacks of flour!!
    He started making sourdough at the end of last year, so has not had to find anywhere selling yeast.
  • edited May 2020
    Before lockdown we regularly bought sacks of chapatti flour from Tesco.

    I bought a 10kg bag of Tesco chapatti flour recently. It doesn't seem to be Atta flour, which is what chapattis are (apparently, I read) mainly made with and which is (apparently, I read) hard to make loaves with. Instead it's a kind of wholemeal-ish bread flour. It makes good loaves with 3/4 chap. flour, 1/4 white bread flour (making the latter go further).

    I usually use this yeast but I bought one of these recently. A bit expensive but there's a lot of it at 1 tsp per loaf. We'll see how it goes.

    [code fix-jj-HH]
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I suppose this doesn't count for all you keen people as I use a bread machine. Apart from the hole in the bottom of the loaf, it's very convenient. I must have hardly bought any ready baked bread in the last 15 years. Mine also makes rather nice tea bread to quite a selection of recipes.

    All this talk of sourdough, though, puzzles me. I've never tried it. As far as I'm aware, you can't use it in a machine. Has anyone ever succeeded? Indeed, is there a shipmate who can tell me they use sourdough in a machine all the time, it's great, and if so, how? But apart from the claim that one can make it yourself,
    - What are the advantages of sourdough?
    - What's it supposed to do that granulated yeast or what I call pudgy yeast don't do?
    - Where does the idea come from?
    - Is it anything more than a fad?

    As far as I've been able to ascertain, it's not part of any baking tradition in Britain. Before the mid nineteenth century people used to get yeast from brewers (not very reliable as apparently it doesn't rise very well) or keep back a small dollop of dough from the previous baking. Am I right that sourdough came here in the last 10 or less years from 'artisan' bakers in California who picked it up from Scandinavian immigrants in the US who had brought the practice from their homelands? Or have some people always been using it? If the Scandinavian connection is correct, that's intriguing as Scandinavia is a lot closer to here than it is to North America and parts of Britain have close links with Scandinavia that go back 12-1300 years.

    One thing I've done for years is to replace lard with olive oil. It's easier to measure and I suspect it's better for you.

  • A fad?

    Dude, we've had sourdough forever (well, seems like it to me, certainly my life long, which is 50 years) in California. I never knew it to be anything but mainstream. The advantage of it, of course, is that you don't have to go find a yeast packet. But the taste is wonderful, which is why we eat it in non-crazy times.

    You surprise me by implying you've not had it in Britain. It sounds rather like you telling me you don't have spaghetti or chocolate chip cookies. Possible, but odd.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    When I was in Canada, around 25 years ago, sourdough bread was a regular type of bread in the supermarkets. It was my first time trying it, and I loved it. It is far more recently that it's become a thing in the UK, and it is seen more as a middle class thing, along with quinoa! I liked the Canadian sourdough bread better - I don't so much like the British version. The Canadian one was softer, and had a nicer taste.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Depends on your bread machine. Mine has a programme for sourdough - basically you mix up yeast/flour/water in a plastic tub, which it then coddles for 24 hours until it's foamy. Then you add it to the other ingredients and off you go. It uses a slightly different paddle as well I think.

    I think sourdough has been knocking around for a long time, but in ethnic or cultural subgroups. I think I first met it in a (now sadly gone) Jewish bakery. Now I often make a point of buying Polish sourdough.

    Similarly focaccia and ciabatta, croissants and baguette, naan and pitta have all migrated into the mainstream.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    You can do everything in a Bread Machine - my son made the most super focaccia, pizza dough, and Challot (Shabbat breads). I just stick to the ordinary #1 on the options - but I experiment with with herbs and seeds and things in the dough. Yesterday's bread was super - garlic, freshly picked basil, oregano, thyme and parsley with pumpkin seeds and some oats.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    There are places online which discuss sourdough in a machine, and I will be consulting them next loaf, as I sacrificed an elderly packet of dried yeast to make a starter, which is living, currently in the fridge, but it perks up on feeding. I was anticipating not being able to get bread elsewhere.
  • I quite fancy that garlic and herb bread.
    I use my bread machine just for mixing and proving the dough as I don’t have much upper body strength, then I bake the bread in the oven. This also means I can do fancy breads like focaccia.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    @Enoch
    I suppose this doesn't count for all you keen people as I use a bread machine. Apart from the hole in the bottom of the loaf, it's very convenient. I must have hardly bought any ready baked bread in the last 15 years. Mine also makes rather nice tea bread to quite a selection of recipes.

    Like @Heavenlyannie, I use the bread machine for the kneading bit then put it in the oven in a normal tin to bake.

    Best of both worlds.

    šŸ˜‡
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    A fad?

    Dude, we've had sourdough forever (well, seems like it to me, certainly my life long, which is 50 years) in California. I never knew it to be anything but mainstream. The advantage of it, of course, is that you don't have to go find a yeast packet. But the taste is wonderful, which is why we eat it in non-crazy times.

    You surprise me by implying you've not had it in Britain. It sounds rather like you telling me you don't have spaghetti or chocolate chip cookies. Possible, but odd.

    I first heard of sourdough about six months ago.

    No cookies here - only biscuits :wink:

  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    I'm not a breadmaker, but I've known about sourdough for a while (years rather than weeks/months), but that may be because my sister makes bread. I suspect that at the moment, it's probably enjoying something of a renaissance since yeast appears to be completely unavailable in the supermarkets....
  • SparrowSparrow Shipmate
    I don't bake bread, but I am shopping for an isolated friend who does, and as I have found a location in west London that has fresh yeast, I have become her dealer!
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    There are recipes for cake and cookies that include sourdough starter. My favorite gingerbread recipe uses starter.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Waitrose has been selling sourdough bread for some years.
    And we do have cookies as well as biscuits. They are the ones which are softer in the middle, and thicker than such things as the crisper digestives and hobnobs. I think Maryland cookies (chocolate chip) have been that since they arrived on the supermarket shelves. It's a useful distinction.
  • I thought sourdough was universal, until the middle ages, and the use of barm from brewing. (Also unleavened bread). I wonder if there are any old European recipes in existence, e.g., in France.
  • I first saw sourdough bread s old on 'artisan bread' stalls on markets in Essex & East Anglia, about 20 years ago, so probably been around long enough, and sufficiently popular with home bakers, not to be considered a fad any more.
    I did know a few people who made it back in out "Barbara and Tom" days, nearly 40 years ago, but it was very niche then.

    Otherwise: Yesterday we got a flyer delivered from an Italian family restaurant in the next town that has started doing takeaway. Apart from the usual dishes, they have included a deli section on their takeaway menu and both caputo flour and yeast are listed. If you have access to such a restaurant, where they make their own dough, it might be worth trying there for flour & yeast.
    Possibly not available from chain restaurants.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    We use a bread machine, unless we are doing something fancy like Paul Hollywood's savoury brioche couronne https://bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/savoury_brioche_couronne_91468 - that recipe makes too much (for the two of us who like it) to eat before it goes stale, so we're planning to make it for the 'end of lockdown' street party. Whenever that happens.

    If you are on good terms with your local baker, they may be willing to sell you some fresh yeast. I used to buy fresh yeast from the bakery department at my local supermarket (the challenge was attracting someone's attention to ask for it) and freeze it in 30g chunks, which is enough for one batch of bread. It doesn't work in a bread machine though, so we are keeping our eyes open for stray packets/tins of instant yeast...

    @Bishops Finger I did consider buying a bag and offering to split it with one or more friends, and if it had been strong flour I would have done it; but they only had plain and self-raising flour on offer. I still have enough of that, for now.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    There was an interesting documentary on the history of bread on BBC4 the other night. All the stuff that happened post 1950 -the sliced white, the bakers' strike, the rise of wholemeal, the diversification of breads - I remember.

    Glad to have missed the medieval loaf (aka Dwarf Bread), bread that included alum and human sweat, and the never-less-than-a-day-old National Loaf.
  • Lazy me, went to local shop that along with hunting knives, blankets and local olive oil has fresh baked bread 3 times a week. Now on lock down using bread the local senior center brings us each week. It is day old from local market, always an adventure on what we will get. I do make Indian Fry Bread now and then. Easy as the name suggests, you fry it.
  • SarasaSarasa Shipmate
    I actually do have some yeast. I bought it to make stollen at Christmas and never got round to it. I might have a go at bread this weekend, as I also have some strong bread flour, that was for the never made stollen too.
    My son makes cracking soda bread. When he can visit I'm ordering some for lunch.
  • Lily PadLily Pad Shipmate
    I'm still wondering how you got the loaf of bread in the heading/title of this thread!

    Flour, yeast, and sourdough starters are all available here now. There was a brief time where there was not a consistent supply but most stores have figured out that people are looking for it.
  • Jane R wrote: Ā»
    If you are on good terms with your local baker, they may be willing to sell you some fresh yeast. I used to buy fresh yeast from the bakery department at my local supermarket (the challenge was attracting someone's attention to ask for it) and freeze it in 30g chunks, which is enough for one batch of bread. It doesn't work in a bread machine though, so we are keeping our eyes open for stray packets/tins of instant yeast...

    When I use the bread machine, I boil a cup of water, put most in the machine to pre-heat the other ingredients, add my tblsp of sugar to the hot remnant and stir it up, add cold water to make tepid, and add yeast. Then I wait for the cup to foam up, and then I add it to the machine and get the program to start. It seems to me any old yeast would work OK like this, so long as you can get it to start on warm water and sugar?
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    I thought sourdough was universal, until the middle ages, and the use of barm from brewing. (Also unleavened bread). I wonder if there are any old European recipes in existence, e.g., in France.

    Bread in France is an art form. Becoming a boulanger requires considerable training. One of the reasons I don't make bread often is that I can't make anything anywhere near as good as what I can buy in the organic bakery round the corner. This is partly but not entirely to do with their oven. I think pain au levain is probably the closest thing to sourdough but French bakers have been using added yeast for a long time. For bread to be sold as pain de tradition in France it may only contain flour, yeast, salt and water and nothing else. Baguette is becoming less popular these days because it doesn't keep and is considered less healthy so people are going back to more old-fashioned kinds of bread - usually giant loaves that you buy a hunk of.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    ...mmm, French bread... The stuff you get over here is just a pale imitation.

    @mark_in_manchester thanks for the tip, if I run out of instant yeast I'll try it.
  • AravisAravis Shipmate
    It may be easier to get instant yeast in the small outposts of supermarkets. I haven’t managed to get any from our main Sainsbury’s for two months, but the little Sainsbury’s Local has had some several times. They also don’t seem to run out of eggs as quickly.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    @Lily Pad said -
    I'm still wondering how you got the loaf of bread in the heading/title of this thread!

    Wizardry - pure wizardry! šŸ„– šŸž
  • Lily PadLily Pad Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: Ā»
    @Lily Pad said -
    I'm still wondering how you got the loaf of bread in the heading/title of this thread!

    Wizardry - pure wizardry! šŸ„– šŸž

    Lol, diabolical.
  • NenyaNenya Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: Ā»
    There was an interesting documentary on the history of bread on BBC4 the other night. All the stuff that happened post 1950 -the sliced white, the bakers' strike, the rise of wholemeal, the diversification of breads - I remember.

    I watched that documentary too - I thought it very interesting and well put together.

    I used to have a bread machine and for some time, when the children were young, home made bread for Sunday tea was a thing. Generally now I don't eat bread but since lockdown it's been a feature of lunches in a way it never was when I was working. Mr Nen is gluten intolerant so has to have special stuff - rye sourdough or corn bread, or the completely gluten free bread which he doesn't much enjoy, but I confess I just buy it (so I don't really belong on this thread and will take myself off shortly :wink: ). Flour and yeast are things which are never available when I go to Tesco's, but I did manage to find a bag of gluten free plain flour last week at one of the smaller shops. I've seen a recipe for flatbreads (cooked on the hob) involving flour and coconut milk and when I find it again I want to try it.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    I have started a sourdough starter. Today was day 2 -- threw away half, and added equal parts of flour and water, stirred, recovered, put in warm place. Supposedly in 5 to 7 days I should have enough active starter to actually bake a loaf. We shall see!
  • @Nenya I'm another one trying to make gluten free bread and failing. I'm surprised your husband can eat rye bread as rye contains gluten. We're on corn breads (tortilla) and possibly oat bread (GF oats can be sourced). I can eat gluten, but my daughter can't.
  • I tried making tortillas with gluten free flour once. The result was similar in texture to the dead skin from a blister.
  • I have corn meal (and potato flour, soya flour and a few others) which helps. The gluten free version that works comes from a GF baking book and is yeasted, but rolling out is challenging - I can only do it between two layers of greaseproof paper. Ditto pastry.
  • DavidDavid Shipmate
    I bake bread three or four times a week, but I do use a bread machine.

    I nearly ran out of yeast a few weeks ago, but managed to get some on eBay. I found I had to change my strong white to stoneground wholemeal ratio a bit to compensate for the new yeast as it fell back on baking the first couple of times.

    I’ve now very nearly run out of flour. Must go and try and get some tomorrow.
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