Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    mousethief wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    As I understand it a tank top is equivalent to a British "vest". An undergarment with oval neck-hole and sculpted armholes -- ends in straps, so to speak. A wife beater is like a t-shirt with the sleeves cut off. A crew neck, and shoulders completely covered.

    Hm. That sounds like what we used to call "muscle shirts". Like this http://starteeapparel.com/2150-mens-cotton-muscle-tee/

    Yeah, that's a wife-beater.

    As I said, most of what Google gives me for wife-beater isn't this sleeveless t-shirt style. It shows me things with much narrower straps on the shoulder.

    Like this: https://www.amazon.com/elpishop-Cotton-Breathable-Beater-Ribbed/dp/B07NQGCW7X

    And that's what I've always understood. You're the first person I've encountered that uses wife-beater for the sleeveless tee. The joys of linguistic variation.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Leaf wrote: »
    Interesting. I get the impression that only about 12 people live in Saskatoon and they all go down to the river at 4am, break the ice and plunge into the freezing waters for an early morning swim then wrestle grizzlies with their bare hands before going home for a breakfast consisting of beer mixed with things it shouldn't be. Other than that, it's pretty much like everywhere else ...


    This is offensive.

    Why?

  • orfeo wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    As I understand it a tank top is equivalent to a British "vest". An undergarment with oval neck-hole and sculpted armholes -- ends in straps, so to speak. A wife beater is like a t-shirt with the sleeves cut off. A crew neck, and shoulders completely covered.

    Hm. That sounds like what we used to call "muscle shirts". Like this http://starteeapparel.com/2150-mens-cotton-muscle-tee/

    Yeah, that's a wife-beater.

    As I said, most of what Google gives me for wife-beater isn't this sleeveless t-shirt style. It shows me things with much narrower straps on the shoulder.

    Like this: https://www.amazon.com/elpishop-Cotton-Breathable-Beater-Ribbed/dp/B07NQGCW7X

    And that's what I've always understood. You're the first person I've encountered that uses wife-beater for the sleeveless tee. The joys of linguistic variation.

    Yes, that's what I think of as a "wife beater", and it's what I would wear at the gym. "Muscle T" is a much better term, in my humble o.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I have a sneaking suspicion it's a reference to the famous "Stella!!!!" line in A Streetcar Named Desire," which has domestic violence themes.

    That was exactly my thought too when I heard it, but it's not. It's because Stella Artois was extra strong in terms of alcohol, to begin with, and domestic violence often happened after blokes had been drinking it. Apparently when police came to homes where domestic violence had happened, there were often empty bottles of Stella Artois. So it was associated with domestic violence.

    Though there has apparently been an attempt to get rid of the term, and I believe it's not used as much as it used to be.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    And why 'flatware'? Try eating soup off a flat spoon.

    Heh, thouh it's a new term to me, I quite like 'flatware'. Obviously cutlery isn't completely flat, but it lies flat on the table. There is some logic in it for me. Even though I see its original meaning is for plates and saucers, to comtrast with hollow-ware (a term I also didn't know, but is satisfyingly self-explanatory).

  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Cutlery coves knives, forks and spoons in New Brunswick.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    In my day, the Master Cutler ran from Marylebone to Sheffield, and was non-pullman. Mind you, that was in the declining years of the route.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    orfeo wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    As I understand it a tank top is equivalent to a British "vest". An undergarment with oval neck-hole and sculpted armholes -- ends in straps, so to speak. A wife beater is like a t-shirt with the sleeves cut off. A crew neck, and shoulders completely covered.

    Hm. That sounds like what we used to call "muscle shirts". Like this http://starteeapparel.com/2150-mens-cotton-muscle-tee/

    Yeah, that's a wife-beater.

    As I said, most of what Google gives me for wife-beater isn't this sleeveless t-shirt style. It shows me things with much narrower straps on the shoulder.

    Like this: https://www.amazon.com/elpishop-Cotton-Breathable-Beater-Ribbed/dp/B07NQGCW7X

    And that's what I've always understood. You're the first person I've encountered that uses wife-beater for the sleeveless tee. The joys of linguistic variation.

    Yes, that's what I think of as a "wife beater", and it's what I would wear at the gym. "Muscle T" is a much better term, in my humble o.

    Well for me a "Muscle tee" is something different (ie the t-shirt with sleeves cut off, though I'd probably be more likely to call it a sleeveless t-shirt). What you're looking at there is, for me, a singlet.
  • LeafLeaf Shipmate
    I find Gamma Gamaliel's recent post to be offensive because: (1) it generally relies on ignorant and outdated stereotypes (2) it includes an arrogant and presumptive observation about "what should/shouldn't be" mixed with beer. IMHO none of these contributes to a thread where respectful curiosity, politeness, decency, and the recognition that "it's okay if people do things differently where they are" create the groundwork for cross-cultural conversations.

    I would welcome a host post on this.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    As I understand it a tank top is equivalent to a British "vest". An undergarment with oval neck-hole and sculpted armholes -- ends in straps, so to speak. A wife beater is like a t-shirt with the sleeves cut off. A crew neck, and shoulders completely covered.

    Hm. That sounds like what we used to call "muscle shirts". Like this http://starteeapparel.com/2150-mens-cotton-muscle-tee/

    Yeah, that's a wife-beater.
    FWIW, that would not be a wife-beater here. As used here, a wife-beater has narrower straps at the shoulder, like this.

  • fineline wrote: »
    Though there has apparently been an attempt to get rid of the term, and I believe it's not used as much as it used to be.

    Domestic violence is, IMO, less of a joking matter now than it was 20 years ago. 20 years ago, comedians still joked about it - I don't think that happens much these days. 20 years ago, I used to hear groups of lads out on the piss ordering six pints of wife-beater with a bit of a smirk, as if the idea of getting drunk and slapping your woman around was funny.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    fineline wrote: »
    Though there has apparently been an attempt to get rid of the term, and I believe it's not used as much as it used to be.

    Domestic violence is, IMO, less of a joking matter now than it was 20 years ago. 20 years ago, comedians still joked about it - I don't think that happens much these days. 20 years ago, I used to hear groups of lads out on the piss ordering six pints of wife-beater with a bit of a smirk, as if the idea of getting drunk and slapping your woman around was funny.

    The attempts to stop the term being used for Stella Artois were not, however, motivated by concern for women, but by a desire to improve the beer's reputation.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    I had never heard that derogatory use of Stella Artois. In fact I don't think I'd ever heard of the brand until it started marketing itself with classy, glam female models.
  • I will apologise to Leaf and anyone else who may have been offended by my remarks.

    They were intended as good-natured rib-prodding as a caricatured response to Noprophet's descriptions of his home city and state.

    I'm not the only Shippie to raise an eyebrow at what we've been told is mixed with beer in that part of the world. Mind you, almost anything mixed with Stella Artois would improve it greatly ...

    FWIW, I have seen Saskatchewan and Saskatoon on the telly once and it looks a delightful and interesting place and I apologise if I have caused any offence to people from that part of the world.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    orfeo wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    As I understand it a tank top is equivalent to a British "vest". An undergarment with oval neck-hole and sculpted armholes -- ends in straps, so to speak. A wife beater is like a t-shirt with the sleeves cut off. A crew neck, and shoulders completely covered.

    Hm. That sounds like what we used to call "muscle shirts". Like this http://starteeapparel.com/2150-mens-cotton-muscle-tee/

    Yeah, that's a wife-beater.

    As I said, most of what Google gives me for wife-beater isn't this sleeveless t-shirt style. It shows me things with much narrower straps on the shoulder.

    Like this: https://www.amazon.com/elpishop-Cotton-Breathable-Beater-Ribbed/dp/B07NQGCW7X

    And that's what I've always understood. You're the first person I've encountered that uses wife-beater for the sleeveless tee. The joys of linguistic variation.

    Yes, that's what I think of as a "wife beater", and it's what I would wear at the gym. "Muscle T" is a much better term, in my humble o.

    Well for me a "Muscle tee" is something different (ie the t-shirt with sleeves cut off, though I'd probably be more likely to call it a sleeveless t-shirt). What you're looking at there is, for me, a singlet.

    Exactly
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    As I understand it a tank top is equivalent to a British "vest". An undergarment with oval neck-hole and sculpted armholes -- ends in straps, so to speak. A wife beater is like a t-shirt with the sleeves cut off. A crew neck, and shoulders completely covered.

    Hm. That sounds like what we used to call "muscle shirts". Like this http://starteeapparel.com/2150-mens-cotton-muscle-tee/

    Yeah, that's a wife-beater.
    FWIW, that would not be a wife-beater here. As used here, a wife-beater has narrower straps at the shoulder, like this.

    I'm not sure that those wearing them worry too much about such fine differences.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    Thank you @Gamma Gamaliel ! That was a lovely apology!
  • LeafLeaf Shipmate
    Thank you, Gamma Gamaliel. That was very nicely done.
    I'm not the only Shippie to raise an eyebrow at what we've been told is mixed with beer in that part of the world.
    True, but I can only deal with one aShipmate at a time.

    Seriously, I appreciate your post.
  • fineline wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    Though there has apparently been an attempt to get rid of the term, and I believe it's not used as much as it used to be.

    Domestic violence is, IMO, less of a joking matter now than it was 20 years ago. 20 years ago, comedians still joked about it - I don't think that happens much these days. 20 years ago, I used to hear groups of lads out on the piss ordering six pints of wife-beater with a bit of a smirk, as if the idea of getting drunk and slapping your woman around was funny.

    The attempts to stop the term being used for Stella Artois were not, however, motivated by concern for women, but by a desire to improve the beer's reputation.

    Yes, Stella had suffered from the Burberry effect, that is, dragged down market, when the company wanted a more upmarket image. At one point, every scally in London seemed to be wearing Burberry scarves, etc., but not now.
  • Cutlery, whether silver or plate, is what you use to eat your meal. Silverware is things like platters, chargers, salvers, salts, etc.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Cutlery, whether silver or plate, is what you use to eat your meal. Silverware is things like platters, chargers, salvers, salts, etc.

    In which country?

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    Cutlery, whether silver or plate, is what you use to eat your meal. Silverware is things like platters, chargers, salvers, salts, etc.

    In which country?
    Not the one in which I live. :wink:

  • I will apologise to Leaf and anyone else who may have been offended by my remarks.

    They were intended as good-natured rib-prodding as a caricatured response to Noprophet's descriptions of his home city and state.

    I'm not the only Shippie to raise an eyebrow at what we've been told is mixed with beer in that part of the world. Mind you, almost anything mixed with Stella Artois would improve it greatly ...

    FWIW, I have seen Saskatchewan and Saskatoon on the telly once and it looks a delightful and interesting place and I apologise if I have caused any offence to people from that part of the world.

    Very nice of you to write all of this. If you believe in penance, a redeye is 50-50 tomato juice and beer. Drink one for breakfast.

    Saskatchewan is interesting mostly in my view because we lack population density. A lot of the province is truly wild. We are 400km from home in our cabin, saw a bald eagle steal a fish from a blue heron today. Very dramatic. Lots of bird talk among the grebes and geese about it, and of the frost due overnight.

    On another, I loathe the term "wife beater". Muscle shirt if you must.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate

    Very nice of you to write all of this. If you believe in penance, a redeye is 50-50 tomato juice and beer. Drink one for breakfast.

    That would be a real penance - more so than 50 Hail Marys - but then I've never tried a red eye, just imagining.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Saskatchewan is interesting mostly in my view because we lack population density. A lot of the province is truly wild. We are 400km from home in our cabin, saw a bald eagle steal a fish from a blue heron today. Very dramatic. Lots of bird talk among the grebes and geese about it, and of the frost due overnight.
    My then husband and I almost moved to Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, 40 years ago. But that's another story for another day.

    Instead here I am in the Phoenix area -- lots of population density and a slightly different climate from Saskatchewan. (I do, however, have an occasional blue heron in the park behind my house.)
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    As I understand it a tank top is equivalent to a British "vest". An undergarment with oval neck-hole and sculpted armholes -- ends in straps, so to speak. A wife beater is like a t-shirt with the sleeves cut off. A crew neck, and shoulders completely covered.

    Hm. That sounds like what we used to call "muscle shirts". Like this http://starteeapparel.com/2150-mens-cotton-muscle-tee/

    Yeah, that's a wife-beater.
    FWIW, that would not be a wife-beater here. As used here, a wife-beater has narrower straps at the shoulder, like this.

    I would call that a tank top.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Cutlery, whether silver or plate, is what you use to eat your meal. Silverware is things like platters, chargers, salvers, salts, etc.

    And epergne of course. Never sit down to a meal without one.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    Cutlery, whether silver or plate, is what you use to eat your meal. Silverware is things like platters, chargers, salvers, salts, etc.

    And epergne of course. Never sit down to a meal without one.

    We would not dream of such a course of action.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    It took me years to find ice cream forks in my pattern, and now you want me to have an epergne too?
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    Though there has apparently been an attempt to get rid of the term, and I believe it's not used as much as it used to be.

    Domestic violence is, IMO, less of a joking matter now than it was 20 years ago. 20 years ago, comedians still joked about it - I don't think that happens much these days. 20 years ago, I used to hear groups of lads out on the piss ordering six pints of wife-beater with a bit of a smirk, as if the idea of getting drunk and slapping your woman around was funny.

    The attempts to stop the term being used for Stella Artois were not, however, motivated by concern for women, but by a desire to improve the beer's reputation.

    Yes, Stella had suffered from the Burberry effect, that is, dragged down market, when the company wanted a more upmarket image. At one point, every scally in London seemed to be wearing Burberry scarves, etc., but not now.

    Making it taste better might help.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    Firenze wrote: »
    Cutlery, whether silver or plate, is what you use to eat your meal. Silverware is things like platters, chargers, salvers, salts, etc.

    And epergne of course. Never sit down to a meal without one.
    I was very surprised to find my wife had never heard of an ashet, a very familiar term from my own upbringing - but quite niche in England, I think.
  • fineline wrote: »
    Cutlery, whether silver or plate, is what you use to eat your meal. Silverware is things like platters, chargers, salvers, salts, etc.

    In which country?

    UK. That's why commentators refer to things like sporting trophies as "silverware".
    Firenze wrote: »
    And epergne of course. Never sit down to a meal without one.

    Really? To my mind, unless you have a very wide table they fall into the category of "clutter", plus many are hideous and hard to clean. A low bowl is much better for a few flowers.
    BroJames wrote: »
    I was very surprised to find my wife had never heard of an ashet, a very familiar term from my own upbringing - but quite niche in England, I think.
    Another leftover from the Auld Alliance, I think?
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Firenze wrote: »
    And epergne of course. Never sit down to a meal without one.

    Really? To my mind, unless you have a very wide table they fall into the category of "clutter", plus many are hideous and hard to clean. A low bowl is much better for a few flowers.

    Yes, but where are you going to put the candied fruits and suchets?

  • You wouldn't want to put candied fruits in silverware, really not good for the silver and the fruits might not taste so great. It would be better by far to use glass, maybe a Lalique bowl?

    I would say cutlery for knives, forks and the rest of the eating irons, the silver set being kept in their own baize-lined canteen; pots and pans for the cooking containers and silverware for the silver that needs all the cleaning. Crockery conjures up jumble sale or charity shop piles of china and earthenware or the broken crocks used at the bottom of plant pots.
  • All of this reminds me, can anyone recommend a good boot boy? My present one keeps leaving smears on the silver, so I must replace him. For some reason Amazon don't supply domestic.
  • You wear silver boots?
  • Mine is a modest establishment. The boot boy cleans the silver as well. One does not wish to be ostentatious.
  • Ah!
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I have to admit I've never heard of an ashet either. Looking it up, it appears to be what I'd call a charger.

    On 'silverware' I wonder if it's an instance of a word that has expanded its meaning to become something more general on one side of the Atlantic than the other. Another example is 'ship' as a verb. It was quite odd to discover when sales over the web began to became more widespread that 'shipping this week' didn't have any specific connection with despatching by sea. From outside, 'ship' in the US appears to have expanded to mean 'despatch' rather than 'send by boat'. So presumably, things can be shipped by air, by lorry, by train or overland.

    I think over here, the meaning of 'silverware' is still controlled by the 'silver' ingredient. So it has to be describing things that are either made of silver or at least would like you to think are pretending to be.

    I'm sure there'll be examples the other way round, but it's much easier to notice when somebody else is using a word outside the sense one understands by it, than when oneself is.

  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    The O.E.D. suggests indeed that the word 'buoy' may come from Spanish 'boya' or Italian 'boa' or French 'bouée' but that all these come from Old High German 'bouhhan' which had the meaning of modern English 'beacon' (Modern German obviously taken from Spanish or French is Boje and Dutch is 'lichtboei'
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Anything for eating/drinking from that is earthenware, but not china, is delf* where I grew up.

    *Definitely 'delf' and not 'delft'.
    You wouldn't want to put candied fruits in silverware, really not good for the silver and the fruits might not taste so good.

    It's alright: they're nestling on beds of tender beech leaves freshly picked from the avenue of trees planted to mark the visit of Elizabeth I.

  • I would call an ashet a platter - I have a large collection of Wedgewood Stonehenge ones which I use all the time and they make great Christmas dinner plates too.
    I must admit to having never heard of an epergne before and now wonder how I had missed such an opportunity to irritate my husband’s sensibilities.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    ' ashet' is, or certainly was, a fairly common word in Scotland, obviously coming from 'assiette' but the two words no longer have exactly the same meaning.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    I've heard the term "asshat" used on the Ship and elsewhere -- perhaps just a spelling variation?
    :wink:
  • BroJames wrote: »
    I was very surprised to find my wife had never heard of an ashet, a very familiar term from my own upbringing - but quite niche in England, I think.

    Thanks for bringing up ashet. It's a word that my grandmother would use often, but I haven't heard in a while. So hearing it brings back fond memories.
  • Mine is a modest establishment. The boot boy cleans the silver as well. One does not wish to be ostentatious.
    My younger son once played an Edwardian hall boy during a World War One re-enactment at a Tudor manor. The butler made him polish the silver and he hated it, it was a tedious and hard task (it was far more fun the time he played the Tudor tramp’s boy and tried to crawl through the manor windows to steal things).
  • Firenze wrote: »
    You wouldn't want to put candied fruits in silverware, really not good for the silver and the fruits might not taste so good.

    It's alright: they're nestling on beds of tender beech leaves freshly picked from the avenue of trees planted to mark the visit of Elizabeth I.
    I suspect you've been sold a pup with the beech trees, 150-200 years is their expected longevity, so planted in the time of one of the Georges at a pinch, Victoria more likely. (They are currently coming down like nine pins locally whenever there's any wind at all, and they aren't that old.) If you're using leaves from trees planted in the time of Elizabeth I you're either trying to poison your guests with oak or yew, or mistaking sweet chestnut or most likely walnut tree leaves for beech, although walnut trees rarely live to 400 years.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    As I understand it a tank top is equivalent to a British "vest". An undergarment with oval neck-hole and sculpted armholes -- ends in straps, so to speak. A wife beater is like a t-shirt with the sleeves cut off. A crew neck, and shoulders completely covered.

    Hm. That sounds like what we used to call "muscle shirts". Like this http://starteeapparel.com/2150-mens-cotton-muscle-tee/

    Yeah, that's a wife-beater.
    FWIW, that would not be a wife-beater here. As used here, a wife-beater has narrower straps at the shoulder, like this.

    I would call that a tank top.
    So would I. I generally don’t use “wife beater.” But what I’m saying is that here, a “wife beater” is applied to a white tank top that might be worn as an undershirt. Part of the implication of saying someone is wearing a “wife beater” is saying that he is just wearing underwear. As used here, using “wife beater” is as much a comment about the man wearing the shirt—that he lacks class or is uncouth—as it is about the shirt.

  • Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    I've heard the term "asshat" used on the Ship and elsewhere -- perhaps just a spelling variation?
    :wink:

    Not worthy!
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Mine is a modest establishment. The boot boy cleans the silver as well. One does not wish to be ostentatious.

    My younger son once played an Edwardian hall boy during a World War One re-enactment at a Tudor manor. The butler made him polish the silver and he hated it, it was a tedious and hard task (it was far more fun the time he played the Tudor tramp’s boy and tried to crawl through the manor windows to steal things).
    Sadly, the family had come down in the world. Things were not as they were. To put it bluntly, they were poor. The father was poor. The mother was poor. The children were poor. The grandmother was poor. The governess was poor. The butler was poor. The cook was poor. The footmen were poor. The housemaids were poor. The kitchen maids were poor. The groom was poor. The gardener was poor. Even the stable boy and the boot boy were poor.
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