I wonder if beg the question is actually changing meaning, as it certainly has two senses right now, and possibly the traditional one, the fallacy, is expiring.
I don't think it's a phrase I've ever used, because I'm confused about what it means.
I think that "pass" is a Caribbean, or possibly African, usage which has become mainstream.
When I conduct funerals I make a point of using the word "died" at least once.
When I lived in Atlanta, Georgia, a common term amongst African Americans was "funeralize". As in the church service, eulogy, and burial. I heard this frequently and it drove me crazy every time.
Or worse still, simply "passed." Passed what? An exam? Another motorist?
I have my sarcastic/profane Irish sense of humor and still say, about my long deceased parents, "My dad kicked the bucket in '75 and my mom kicked it in '79." I said this when I was seventeen and I got all sorts of shocked expressions aimed at me. Mwahahahaha!
I wonder if beg the question is actually changing meaning, as it certainly has two senses right now, and possibly the traditional one, the fallacy, is expiring.
As fewer and fewer people know anything about logic and reason, the need for terms to describe logical fallacies grows ever fainter.
To me "where do you stay?" for 'where do you live?' sounds Scots, as does 'flit' for any moving house, rather than a surreptitious one. From recollection, as a Scots idiom, 'Where do you stay?' doesn't have an 'at' on the end of it.
Currently I'm reading "Christ, the Heart of Creation" by Rowan Williams, an erudite book, parts of which escape me. Yesterday I saw him using "beg the question" in the wrong way, and I wondered what hope there was for the rest of us.
I have my sarcastic/profane Irish sense of humor and still say, about my long deceased parents, "My dad kicked the bucket in '75 and my mom kicked it in '79."
Do you still have the bucket, or has it gone to the great broom cupboard in the sky?
Viz Top Tip: Ramblers - refer to taking on fluids rather than having a drink so that it sounds like you're undertaking a major expedition rather than just going for a walk over some hills.
I think that "pass" is a Caribbean, or possibly African, usage which has become mainstream.
When I conduct funerals I make a point of using the word "died" at least once.
When I lived in Atlanta, Georgia, a common term amongst African Americans was "funeralize". As in the church service, eulogy, and burial. I heard this frequently and it drove me crazy every time.
Perhaps it's seen as the consequence of the commonly used "hospitalised"?
Viz Top Tip: Ramblers - refer to taking on fluids rather than having a drink so that it sounds like you're undertaking a major expedition rather than just going for a walk over some hills.
"Hydrated" - as in "Staying hydrated is essential for good health". Whatever happened to "drinking enough"?
"Staying drinking enough" just doesn't have the same ring. Takes much longer too. And if you're drinking lots of alcohol, it has the opposite effect of hydrating.
Oh yes ... something which comes up on our community FB page from time to time (e.g. today) - "fur babies" to mean pets, usually cats. Ugh!
(I'm only catching up on this thread, but this offering from a while ago reminds me of the delightful phrase 'food babies', as in 'Sorry I'm late, I've been drowning...' ).
"Hydrated" - as in "Staying hydrated is essential for good health". Whatever happened to "drinking enough"?
"Staying drinking enough" just doesn't have the same ring. Takes much longer too. And if you're drinking lots of alcohol, it has the opposite effect of hydrating.
This is why the phrasing is used (it is overused I agree). It is not about drinking - hikers might drink on regular pub stops - it is about hydrating which is drinking water and other such things.
To me "where do you stay?" for 'where do you live?' sounds Scots, as does 'flit' for any moving house, rather than a surreptitious one. From recollection, as a Scots idiom, 'Where do you stay?' doesn't have an 'at' on the end of it.
If I was speaking to a local I would say "Where do you bide?" which would be "where do you stay" rather than "where do you live?" I think.
Even without that, has anyone else ever noticed that to be a 'loved one' you've either got to be a long way away, preferably in another continent, seriously ill, dead, or all three?
I always giggle when I hear the hymn "Peace, perfect peace, with loved ones far away" which has a double meaning. Some loved ones are not peaceful!
To me "where do you stay?" for 'where do you live?' sounds Scots, as does 'flit' for any moving house, rather than a surreptitious one. From recollection, as a Scots idiom, 'Where do you stay?' doesn't have an 'at' on the end of it.
If I was speaking to a local I would say "Where do you bide?" which would be "where do you stay" rather than "where do you live?" I think.
My wife is from Clydebank and she'd definitely use "stay" rather than "bide" - I suspect regional variation. She wouldn't call herself a "quine" either, of course - and if she called me a "loon" it would not be an affectionate compliment!
Even without that, has anyone else ever noticed that to be a 'loved one' you've either got to be a long way away, preferably in another continent, seriously ill, dead, or all three?
I always giggle when I hear the hymn "Peace, perfect peace, with loved ones far away" which has a double meaning. Some loved ones are not peaceful!
Double meanings can cause some embarrassment. There was a death notice in the newspaper which finished "Now the pain has gone".
I’d never come across “uptick”before, yet it was used twice in a column about our Chancellor of the Exchequer in our daily paper today.
It’s not a word that will enter my vocabulary.
I've come across several uses recently of "emergent" masquerading as an adjectival form of emergency. Usually people using "an emergent situation" to mean an emergency. Also "emergent care" to mean the sort of thing that is done by paramedics and emergency room staff.
I have my sarcastic/profane Irish sense of humor and still say, about my long deceased parents, "My dad kicked the bucket in '75 and my mom kicked it in '79."
Do you still have the bucket, or has it gone to the great broom cupboard in the sky?
Ha! No, I believe the bucket was retired. IF I believed in beyond the grave payback, my serious injury from banging a toe into a metal pail would make me pause and perhaps beg God for being so flippant...
I've come across several uses recently of "emergent" masquerading as an adjectival form of emergency. Usually people using "an emergent situation" to mean an emergency. Also "emergent care" to mean the sort of thing that is done by paramedics and emergency room staff.
'Surveil' has become a commonplace verb in the North American news media (heading an article in today's Washington Post). It clearly comes from 'surveillance', a legitimate and useful word, but surely that comes from 'survey'? It is another ugly and unnecessary word (offered in my always humble opinion, for judgment by competent linguists).
'Surveil' has become a commonplace verb in the North American news media (heading an article in today's Washington Post). It clearly comes from 'surveillance', a legitimate and useful word, but surely that comes from 'survey'?
Apparently not, though perhaps shared roots if you go back far enough. According to my dictionary, “surveillance” comes from French surveiller, meaning “to watch over,” while “survey” comes from Anglo-French through Middle English surveer, meaning “to look over.” “Surveillance“ is related to the word “vigil,” while “survey” is related to the word “view.”
Meanwhile, that same dictionary tells me that the first recorded use of “surveil,” which is indeed a back-formation from “surveillance,” was in 1884.
Our local news paper rarely uses any verb in its obituary notices. I have told my children that if my death is announced by a sentence with no verb, I will come back to haunt them. The verb I want is "died."
My kids have promised me a verb, but refuse to commit to which verb. I've heard them discussing possible verbs, and fortunately "passed" isn't one of them.
They could use "bought the farm." This goes back to WWI when American soldiers were given a life insurance policy that would allow their survivors to buy a farm so they could live off of it.
They could use "bought the farm." This goes back to WWI when American soldiers were given a life insurance policy that would allow their survivors to buy a farm so they could live off of it.
I've come across several uses recently of "emergent" masquerading as an adjectival form of emergency. Usually people using "an emergent situation" to mean an emergency. Also "emergent care" to mean the sort of thing that is done by paramedics and emergency room staff.
Hmmm. I find it rather creepy that mousethief knows that the FBI are spying on Stercus Tauri. But he's right that surveying and surveilling have two distinct meanings. If the alternative is "carry out surveillance on" then it's pretty well inevitable that "surveil" will become more and more accepted.
'Surveil' has become a commonplace verb in the North American news media (heading an article in today's Washington Post). It clearly comes from 'surveillance', a legitimate and useful word, but surely that comes from 'survey'?
Apparently not, though perhaps shared roots if you go back far enough. According to my dictionary, “surveillance” comes from French surveiller, meaning “to watch over,” while “survey” comes from Anglo-French through Middle English surveer, meaning “to look over.” “Surveillance“ is related to the word “vigil,” while “survey” is related to the word “view.”
Meanwhile, that same dictionary tells me that the first recorded use of “surveil,” which is indeed a back-formation from “surveillance,” was in 1884.
Surveil gets my goat too. Horrible word (however old). But yes, the alternative is not Survey - it is "conduct surveillance". Becasue anything else is too small a word - surveillance is not something you can do for 10 minutes on your own. So it needs a phrase that matches up to that.
Interesting that - coming from "vigil" - it really means: Be alert?
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I don't think it's a phrase I've ever used, because I'm confused about what it means.
When I lived in Atlanta, Georgia, a common term amongst African Americans was "funeralize". As in the church service, eulogy, and burial. I heard this frequently and it drove me crazy every time.
I have my sarcastic/profane Irish sense of humor and still say, about my long deceased parents, "My dad kicked the bucket in '75 and my mom kicked it in '79." I said this when I was seventeen and I got all sorts of shocked expressions aimed at me. Mwahahahaha!
As fewer and fewer people know anything about logic and reason, the need for terms to describe logical fallacies grows ever fainter.
ITTWACW!
Perhaps it's seen as the consequence of the commonly used "hospitalised"?
Exactly.
"Staying drinking enough" just doesn't have the same ring. Takes much longer too. And if you're drinking lots of alcohol, it has the opposite effect of hydrating.
(I'm only catching up on this thread, but this offering from a while ago reminds me of the delightful phrase 'food babies', as in 'Sorry I'm late, I've been drowning...'
This is why the phrasing is used (it is overused I agree). It is not about drinking - hikers might drink on regular pub stops - it is about hydrating which is drinking water and other such things.
If I was speaking to a local I would say "Where do you bide?" which would be "where do you stay" rather than "where do you live?" I think.
I always giggle when I hear the hymn "Peace, perfect peace, with loved ones far away" which has a double meaning. Some loved ones are not peaceful!
My wife is from Clydebank and she'd definitely use "stay" rather than "bide" - I suspect regional variation. She wouldn't call herself a "quine" either, of course - and if she called me a "loon" it would not be an affectionate compliment!
Double meanings can cause some embarrassment. There was a death notice in the newspaper which finished "Now the pain has gone".
It’s not a word that will enter my vocabulary.
I can't stand it.
Ha! No, I believe the bucket was retired. IF I believed in beyond the grave payback, my serious injury from banging a toe into a metal pail would make me pause and perhaps beg God for being so flippant...
My little toe STILL remembers the pain...
I blame Bjork.
Meanwhile, that same dictionary tells me that the first recorded use of “surveil,” which is indeed a back-formation from “surveillance,” was in 1884.
They could use "bought the farm." This goes back to WWI when American soldiers were given a life insurance policy that would allow their survivors to buy a farm so they could live off of it.
Hah! Good one.
Surveil gets my goat too. Horrible word (however old). But yes, the alternative is not Survey - it is "conduct surveillance". Becasue anything else is too small a word - surveillance is not something you can do for 10 minutes on your own. So it needs a phrase that matches up to that.
Interesting that - coming from "vigil" - it really means: Be alert?
I think they are going to monitor my trip to the bagel shop this morning.