Words we could do without

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  • I wonder if beg the question is actually changing meaning, as it certainly has two senses right now, and possibly the traditional one, the fallacy, is expiring.

    I don't think it's a phrase I've ever used, because I'm confused about what it means.
  • The5thMaryThe5thMary Shipmate
    I think that "pass" is a Caribbean, or possibly African, usage which has become mainstream.

    When I conduct funerals I make a point of using the word "died" at least once.

    When I lived in Atlanta, Georgia, a common term amongst African Americans was "funeralize". As in the church service, eulogy, and burial. I heard this frequently and it drove me crazy every time.
  • The5thMaryThe5thMary Shipmate
    The other thing that made me mutter bad things under my breath was this question, "Where you stay at?" instead of "Where do you live?"
  • The5thMaryThe5thMary Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    Passed away . . . instead of died

    Or worse still, simply "passed." Passed what? An exam? Another motorist?

    I have my sarcastic/profane Irish sense of humor and still say, about my long deceased parents, "My dad kicked the bucket in '75 and my mom kicked it in '79." I said this when I was seventeen and I got all sorts of shocked expressions aimed at me. Mwahahahaha!
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    The5thMary wrote: »
    The other thing that made me mutter bad things under my breath was this question, "Where you stay at?" instead of "Where do you live?"
    If I remember correctly, “Where do you live?” and “Where do you stay [at]?” have slightly different meanings in African American Vernacular English.

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    I wonder if beg the question is actually changing meaning, as it certainly has two senses right now, and possibly the traditional one, the fallacy, is expiring.

    As fewer and fewer people know anything about logic and reason, the need for terms to describe logical fallacies grows ever fainter.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    To me "where do you stay?" for 'where do you live?' sounds Scots, as does 'flit' for any moving house, rather than a surreptitious one. From recollection, as a Scots idiom, 'Where do you stay?' doesn't have an 'at' on the end of it.

  • Currently I'm reading "Christ, the Heart of Creation" by Rowan Williams, an erudite book, parts of which escape me. Yesterday I saw him using "beg the question" in the wrong way, and I wondered what hope there was for the rest of us.
  • The5thMary wrote: »
    I have my sarcastic/profane Irish sense of humor and still say, about my long deceased parents, "My dad kicked the bucket in '75 and my mom kicked it in '79."
    Do you still have the bucket, or has it gone to the great broom cupboard in the sky?

  • Talking about death, and it's not so much a word as a phrase, to wit '[He/She] died in [my/his/her] arms'...

    I know what they mean, but it always sounds so uncomfortable...
    :fearful:
    More comfortable than "falling on your sword", methinks.

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Well yes, but at least 'falling on your sword' is Biblical (cf. King Saul, IIRC).
    :open_mouth:

    ITTWACW!
  • "Hydrated" - as in "Staying hydrated is essential for good health". Whatever happened to "drinking enough"?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    "Hydrated" - as in "Staying hydrated is essential for good health". Whatever happened to "drinking enough"?
    Well, it all depends on what you’re drinking enough of. :wink:

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Viz Top Tip: Ramblers - refer to taking on fluids rather than having a drink so that it sounds like you're undertaking a major expedition rather than just going for a walk over some hills.
  • The5thMary wrote: »
    I think that "pass" is a Caribbean, or possibly African, usage which has become mainstream.

    When I conduct funerals I make a point of using the word "died" at least once.

    When I lived in Atlanta, Georgia, a common term amongst African Americans was "funeralize". As in the church service, eulogy, and burial. I heard this frequently and it drove me crazy every time.

    Perhaps it's seen as the consequence of the commonly used "hospitalised"?
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Viz Top Tip: Ramblers - refer to taking on fluids rather than having a drink so that it sounds like you're undertaking a major expedition rather than just going for a walk over some hills.

    Exactly.
  • The sporting goods store flyers here will often offer 'hydration systems' = water bottles.
  • The hydration systems I know for walking look like this and are easier to use than water bottles. Much harder to clean however.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    "Hydrated" - as in "Staying hydrated is essential for good health". Whatever happened to "drinking enough"?

    "Staying drinking enough" just doesn't have the same ring. Takes much longer too. And if you're drinking lots of alcohol, it has the opposite effect of hydrating.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    A Camelback™ is a hell of a lot more than a water bottle.
  • edited May 2020
    Oh yes ... something which comes up on our community FB page from time to time (e.g. today) - "fur babies" to mean pets, usually cats. Ugh!

    (I'm only catching up on this thread, but this offering from a while ago reminds me of the delightful phrase 'food babies', as in 'Sorry I'm late, I've been drowning...' :smile: ).

  • mousethief wrote: »
    "Hydrated" - as in "Staying hydrated is essential for good health". Whatever happened to "drinking enough"?

    "Staying drinking enough" just doesn't have the same ring. Takes much longer too. And if you're drinking lots of alcohol, it has the opposite effect of hydrating.

    This is why the phrasing is used (it is overused I agree). It is not about drinking - hikers might drink on regular pub stops - it is about hydrating which is drinking water and other such things.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    It is not about drinking - hikers might drink on regular pub stops - it is about hydrating which is drinking water and other such things.
    And it’s about not becoming dehydrated, which has medical meaning.

  • Enoch wrote: »
    To me "where do you stay?" for 'where do you live?' sounds Scots, as does 'flit' for any moving house, rather than a surreptitious one. From recollection, as a Scots idiom, 'Where do you stay?' doesn't have an 'at' on the end of it.

    If I was speaking to a local I would say "Where do you bide?" which would be "where do you stay" rather than "where do you live?" I think.
  • SparrowSparrow Shipmate
    Enoch wrote: »
    Even without that, has anyone else ever noticed that to be a 'loved one' you've either got to be a long way away, preferably in another continent, seriously ill, dead, or all three?

    I always giggle when I hear the hymn "Peace, perfect peace, with loved ones far away" which has a double meaning. Some loved ones are not peaceful!


  • Enoch wrote: »
    To me "where do you stay?" for 'where do you live?' sounds Scots, as does 'flit' for any moving house, rather than a surreptitious one. From recollection, as a Scots idiom, 'Where do you stay?' doesn't have an 'at' on the end of it.

    If I was speaking to a local I would say "Where do you bide?" which would be "where do you stay" rather than "where do you live?" I think.

    My wife is from Clydebank and she'd definitely use "stay" rather than "bide" - I suspect regional variation. She wouldn't call herself a "quine" either, of course - and if she called me a "loon" it would not be an affectionate compliment!
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    Sparrow wrote: »
    Enoch wrote: »
    Even without that, has anyone else ever noticed that to be a 'loved one' you've either got to be a long way away, preferably in another continent, seriously ill, dead, or all three?

    I always giggle when I hear the hymn "Peace, perfect peace, with loved ones far away" which has a double meaning. Some loved ones are not peaceful!


    Double meanings can cause some embarrassment. There was a death notice in the newspaper which finished "Now the pain has gone".
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    'Empower'. 'We're going to empower you to. . .' means 'We're going to give you amore work/responsibility but you'll be paid the same.'
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Like 'release' which sometimes means 'we're going to give you more space to do X' but all too often actually means 'sack'.
  • PriscillaPriscilla Shipmate
    I’d never come across “uptick”before, yet it was used twice in a column about our Chancellor of the Exchequer in our daily paper today.
    It’s not a word that will enter my vocabulary.
  • It never entered mine until this thread. It will not find a happy home.
  • You guys are such luddites that even words based on long-obsolete technologies are too new for you. :) (meant in good humor)
  • But I like the phrase "saggar maker's bottom knocker" - it isn't rude but sounds as if it should be!
  • I've come across several uses recently of "emergent" masquerading as an adjectival form of emergency. Usually people using "an emergent situation" to mean an emergency. Also "emergent care" to mean the sort of thing that is done by paramedics and emergency room staff.

    I can't stand it.
  • We'll be having an emergent meeting of the presbytery tomorrow to deal with some urgent business that has emerged.
  • Coming out after hiding under the pews, then?
  • The5thMary wrote: »
    I have my sarcastic/profane Irish sense of humor and still say, about my long deceased parents, "My dad kicked the bucket in '75 and my mom kicked it in '79."
    Do you still have the bucket, or has it gone to the great broom cupboard in the sky?

    Ha! No, I believe the bucket was retired. IF I believed in beyond the grave payback, my serious injury from banging a toe into a metal pail would make me pause and perhaps beg God for being so flippant...

    My little toe STILL remembers the pain...
  • So does the big toe whose nail-bed I damaged accidentally kicking a very solid church pew in Africa in 1986 - I was wearing flip-flops at the time.
  • I've come across several uses recently of "emergent" masquerading as an adjectival form of emergency. Usually people using "an emergent situation" to mean an emergency. Also "emergent care" to mean the sort of thing that is done by paramedics and emergency room staff.

    I can't stand it.

    I blame Bjork.
  • 'Surveil' has become a commonplace verb in the North American news media (heading an article in today's Washington Post). It clearly comes from 'surveillance', a legitimate and useful word, but surely that comes from 'survey'? It is another ugly and unnecessary word (offered in my always humble opinion, for judgment by competent linguists).
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited June 2020
    'Surveil' has become a commonplace verb in the North American news media (heading an article in today's Washington Post). It clearly comes from 'surveillance', a legitimate and useful word, but surely that comes from 'survey'?
    Apparently not, though perhaps shared roots if you go back far enough. According to my dictionary, “surveillance” comes from French surveiller, meaning “to watch over,” while “survey” comes from Anglo-French through Middle English surveer, meaning “to look over.” “Surveillance“ is related to the word “vigil,” while “survey” is related to the word “view.”

    Meanwhile, that same dictionary tells me that the first recorded use of “surveil,” which is indeed a back-formation from “surveillance,” was in 1884.

  • Hmm. 1884? I'll have to concede defeat on that one, though my own dictionary (Concise Oxford) doesn't list it.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    Passed away, fell asleep, instead of died

    Our local news paper rarely uses any verb in its obituary notices. I have told my children that if my death is announced by a sentence with no verb, I will come back to haunt them. The verb I want is "died."

    My kids have promised me a verb, but refuse to commit to which verb. I've heard them discussing possible verbs, and fortunately "passed" isn't one of them.



    They could use "bought the farm." This goes back to WWI when American soldiers were given a life insurance policy that would allow their survivors to buy a farm so they could live off of it.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    They could use "bought the farm." This goes back to WWI when American soldiers were given a life insurance policy that would allow their survivors to buy a farm so they could live off of it.
    Maybe, or maybe not, according to Snopes.

  • ECraigRECraigR Castaway
    I've come across several uses recently of "emergent" masquerading as an adjectival form of emergency. Usually people using "an emergent situation" to mean an emergency. Also "emergent care" to mean the sort of thing that is done by paramedics and emergency room staff.

    I can't stand it.

    I blame Bjork.

    Hah! Good one.

  • The FBI spying on you from a van down the street aren't surveying. They are surveilling.
  • Hmmm. I find it rather creepy that mousethief knows that the FBI are spying on Stercus Tauri. But he's right that surveying and surveilling have two distinct meanings. If the alternative is "carry out surveillance on" then it's pretty well inevitable that "surveil" will become more and more accepted.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    'Surveil' has become a commonplace verb in the North American news media (heading an article in today's Washington Post). It clearly comes from 'surveillance', a legitimate and useful word, but surely that comes from 'survey'?
    Apparently not, though perhaps shared roots if you go back far enough. According to my dictionary, “surveillance” comes from French surveiller, meaning “to watch over,” while “survey” comes from Anglo-French through Middle English surveer, meaning “to look over.” “Surveillance“ is related to the word “vigil,” while “survey” is related to the word “view.”

    Meanwhile, that same dictionary tells me that the first recorded use of “surveil,” which is indeed a back-formation from “surveillance,” was in 1884.

    Surveil gets my goat too. Horrible word (however old). But yes, the alternative is not Survey - it is "conduct surveillance". Becasue anything else is too small a word - surveillance is not something you can do for 10 minutes on your own. So it needs a phrase that matches up to that.

    Interesting that - coming from "vigil" - it really means: Be alert?
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    I suppose it is slightly more acceptable than 'spy'.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    The FBI spying on you from a van down the street aren't surveying. They are surveilling.

    I think they are going to monitor my trip to the bagel shop this morning.
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