Worship from scratch
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
I’ve participated in all kinds of worship and have my preferences, which have changed over the years.
But when I try to think of what I would do if starting from scratch, the liturgy and practices I’m familiar with take over.
It seems to me that we’ve got an ideal opportunity to do things differently, or at least offer something new which newcomers might find right for them.
If you were starting from scratch today, what would you offer?
But when I try to think of what I would do if starting from scratch, the liturgy and practices I’m familiar with take over.
It seems to me that we’ve got an ideal opportunity to do things differently, or at least offer something new which newcomers might find right for them.
If you were starting from scratch today, what would you offer?
Comments
It sounds good to me, and I’m looking forward to the day when we can share in it again.
But would it be right for newcomers, I wonder?
What @Zappa said, and all we would need in the way of furniture/fittings would be some water (for Baptism), some bread and wine, a Bible, a cup, and a plate. O, and maybe some candles...
Not yet - I said next Sunday...!
Seriously, though, if (as I suppose) we are still to obey Our Lord's commands ('Baptise...', 'Do this in remembrance of Me...'), then a few artefacts are required. They need be only very basic, everyday items (the candles are for lighting purposes only, of course).
I guess that, if we are to worship sans Sacraments, then literally nothing would be required, except a Bible?
But then - what form would that 'worship' take? Just someone waving the Bible about, and proclaiming what he decided was God's word for that day? It would not be overly difficult, though, to go back to the very early form of the Eucharist as described by Zappa...
...but please may we have some hymns, and some singing?
No, no. Water in the lake/pond/river/sea, cup and plate on the ground.
I have yet to see people getting carried away during a service of the Eucharist, but thank you for feeding my imagination.
hmmm
At least he had the good sense to raise his skirts.
So not in Canada or other northern (and southern) countries, where I promise you, if you put so much as a toe in the water before July or after August, that toe will turn a fetching shade of blue (not in honour of Our Lady).
Our local Baptists do their sea baptisms in wet suits (Hebrides). I'm sure thermally insulated dry suits can be arranged for arctic regions.
It strikes me that that's where to start from. Otherwise, by default, we've merely got to a simpler version of what we've got at the moment. That might ultimately prove to be the destination anyway, but without asking the more fundamental question, how will anyone ever know whether the answer is worth having?
Two starters, Jesus's words to the Samaritan woman at the well of Samaria at Jn 4:21-24, and the Last Supper means bread and wine is a key in some way.
Another text which could be key is 1 Cor. 14:26: "When you meet for worship, one person has a hymn, another a teaching, another a revelation from God, another a message in strange tongues, and still another the explanation of what is said. Everything must be of help to the church". However it's not clear whether it's a description of what was happening or an instruction as to what should have been happening.
But @Enoch raises a valid point.
Quite apart from early versions of the Eucharist, the 1 Corinthians text would apply to many a less liturgically-inclined church today, so maybe all we can do, if necessary, is indeed to go back to the simple basics of the 1st Century.
Getting shot of a lot of the baggage might not be a Bad Thing...
I wonder whether we are all doing the same thing when we worship. Have we got differing ideas as to what a service is?
For me, I am there to join with others in praise and thanksgiving and prayer. Perhaps some of the Psalms tell it the best. I have King David dancing in the streets in my mind now. Perhaps the dancing priest has influenced my thinking.
From scratch meaning forget all my experience of churches and what happens in them?
Liturgical clothing is obviously historical. If you were starting from scratch, you wouldn't invent albs and chasubles and stoles and all the rest of it, because there'd be no reference for it.
I doubt it was ever "simple basics." The early Christians came out of Judaism, which had layers upon layers of "stuff' when it came to liturgy, and indeed, life. And they carried on worshiping in the temple, and apparently in the synagogues when they were let. So the college-dorm "simple basics" idea is probably a pipe dream for any stage of Christianity.
which is what happens in all the other churches which don't use vestments /uniforms.
The first Christians were Jews and brought their original baggage with them. Most of us are bringing our baggage onto this thread - hence the early reappearance of incense.
There are those who have maintained that God will only accept our worship if we structure it as much like their interpretation of the New Testament as possible. Their argument is that this is what scripture says - conveniently skating over the inconvenience that most of the passages to which they refer are St Paul addressing how people were doing it wrong. There's not much, if anything, about what those who were doing it right did.
If we start with the gospels, one possible conclusion is that Jesus is a lot less interested in the mechanics of how we do it, and rather more on the state of our hearts and lives. If, for example, we have a grievance with someone, we aren't encouraged to bring a sacrifice without first making peace with that person.
IOW, what we now call the Sacraments - Baptism, and Holy Communion - and Jesus' commands with regard to these (as well as discerning who our neighbour is) are where we could start from.
I don't personally have a problem with this, BUT I do think a bit of baggage-shedding would be a Good Thing.
Perhaps worship is more about our heart, our attitude toward God and what we do in our lives to serve God and promote the good name of God, than it is about what we do when we gather together. Is the latter more to do with us and our needs than about God, I wonder?
Does it make sense if church is about being drawn in to be fed and sent out to serve? If so, church surely needs to provide food for those who are not yet on solids as well as for those with a mature palate.
What I think is more doubtful is whether we can claim either from scripture or from tradition that from God's end of the telescope, there is a right way to do it and that the way everyone else does it is wrong.
I don't think Jesus gave a fig for how worship was conducted, but He wasn't explicitly founding a religion, he was acting, working, and generally being. Worship has always been deeply tied to the community engaged in the worshipping; there's a reason Anglo-Catholics arose when and where they did. I personally think that tradition of worship is very meet and right, but it's obviously not the only way. Regardless, the community worshipping is the one that's going to be setting the rubrics.
Jesus indeed called us to action, to show by our deeds that we are trying to follow his teachings.
When asked to say what the greatest commandments were Jesus said 'Love God and love your neighbour' (my paraphrase)
When asked how we should pray, Jesus said , 'Our Father in Heaven, may your name be held holy......'
He starts by telling us to praise God, who is OUR father. We are part of a community and we have to take part in the life of that community. That is why some Christians consider it as extremely important that we do take part in the community life.
In another powerful story of the Last Judgement Jesus tells us that ultimately it will be how we have practiced our love of neighbour that we will be judged and sometimes found wanting.
How we actually conduct church services is perhaps only one of the ways of honouring God and also hopefully loving our neighbour, but without a knowledge of the teachings of Jesus as found in the Gospels, as found in the Church , then we may be very good human beings but we may also not be Christians
Again one can say do we have to be Christians to know God ?
Do we have to honour God to be a good human being ?
My answer to both of these questions would be NO.
However for me personally I find enough answers to life's questions in Christianity and I want to play a full part in the life of the Church.
If you're going to use 'worship leader' at all, it means the person at the front, at a eucharist, the celebrant. Any other usage misleads (pun intended).
However I would like to slightly disagree with Enoch above. Most of the services I conduct are not Eucharistic - that's normal for Nonconformists. My role is, to take the two extremes of the spectrum, is either to "do everything" from choosing the music, leading prayers, reading from Scripture, accepting the offering, giving the announcements and of course preaching .... ; or to "curate", or act as "Master of Ceremonies", for other people to do these things.
More usually my role will fit somewhere in-between: I don't usually give out the notices or do the Bible readings, for example; and I'm pleased if others lead the prayers of intercession, participate in a short drama sketch or read a poem or reflection I have chosen. I do usually organise the service content (although there are times when this is a collaborative effort) and I am usually the person who "holds it together". So in all these senses I am very much a worship leader!
It seems to me that many modern Nonconformist ministers have ceded too much sway to the music leaders - although, of course, in many places they work well together in a highly constructive partnership. Indeed the music person may be the better person to conduct parts of the service. May I gently enquire though if things are actually all that different in some of our Great Churches and Cathedrals where the impression is given that, at services such as Choral Evensong, it is the Director of Music is in charge with the clergy fitting in to their plans?
However I fear a tangent - possibly connected to four-legged creatures being put out to grass - being entered here?
It is part of the problems of vocabulary meaning different things to different Christians.
I agree, and it was what I was referring to: coming together in praise and thanksgiving is as much for our benefit as it is for God's, as we need to express our love and joy and share our sorrow in unison as well as living out our faith in our daily lives.
And there is no one way to 'conduct' a service of worship. But if we were starting from scratch, which elements would we include, which would we leave out, what might we try? I'm sure there is a place for something new, or at least for a new recipe which includes some of the familiar ingredients.
Jesus didn’t command Bible reading, or much of anything else, in worship. But he did command that we baptize and memorialize him in the breaking of bread. They are part of what makes the church the church. From my perspective, even non-sacramental worship takes place in a wider context of a community formed by the sacraments.
Love God, and your neighbour...
When you pray, say 'Our Father'...
Baptise...
Do this in remembrance of Me...
Feed my sheep...
Sums up worship IMHO. Quite how we do these things is up to us!
For me, formal worship is a deliberate act of turning our hearts and minds towards God, so that we have some hope of keeping focused on God for the rest of the day / week. It's a reset button - one that says "stop getting distracted by your nonsense - bring it to God."
That's what worship is for, and that's what the sacraments are for. It's all about bringing us closer to God.