Is Telford feeling insufficiently bullied on the other thread?
He wants to believe that only right-wingers get criticised on this site, so now there's a thread criticising a centrist he's got to make it all about him instead?
Is Telford feeling insufficiently bullied on the other thread?
He wants to believe that only right-wingers get criticised on this site, so now there's a thread criticising a centrist he's got to make it all about him instead?
Well, LB is a useful scapegoat. Every group needs one!
"A useful scapegoat"? Are you smoking something? Seriously! She is one of THE most obnoxious people on The Ship. She is arrogant, shrill, nasty, dismissive, egotistical, and she sucks all the available oxygen out of every "room" she flounces into. She is not interested in a give and take discussion. She's not interested in anyone's point of view. And, if one happens (on a rare occasion!) to agree with her on some subject or discussion point, she sneers at the person until they are left stunned.
She's the human equivalent of a hurricane. A big bunch of wind and fury who leaves a wide swath of destruction in her wake.
I can think of posters with long careers of being the things LB is most commonly accused of who don't attract a tenth of the flak in Hell, funny that. I do wonder what's at work.
How many posts does a Hell thread normally go when a Shipmate does answer it before the thread is closed? Asking for a friend. ;^))
This particular thread has a few days to go before it hits the buffers. Bear in mind that the caller is not obligated to post again, nor the callee to respond at all, or even read the thread. But the OP was genuine and heart-felt, and it might be that having that rant was sufficient to lance that particular boil.
If Telford wants to paint a target on himself here for reasons I'm struggling to understand, I can't stop him. While this thread is open, you're all free to pull whatever insectoid body parts you wish (within the rules), so have at it. It's not like I haven't seen this before, nor will it be the last time.
Obviously, I'd much prefer it if we actually stayed on topic. The purpose of Hell is best served by addressing the complaint, not dicking around.
Well, LB is a useful scapegoat. Every group needs one!
"A useful scapegoat"? Are you smoking something? Seriously! She is one of THE most obnoxious people on The Ship. She is arrogant, shrill, nasty, dismissive, egotistical, and she sucks all the available oxygen out of every "room" she flounces into. She is not interested in a give and take discussion. She's not interested in anyone's point of view. And, if one happens (on a rare occasion!) to agree with her on some subject or discussion point, she sneers at the person until they are left stunned.
She's the human equivalent of a hurricane. A big bunch of wind and fury who leaves a wide swath of destruction in her wake.
Well, she allows people to vent their anger and bitterness and whatever. It's useful.
I can think of posters with long careers of being the things LB is most commonly accused of who don't attract a tenth of the flak in Hell, funny that. I do wonder what's at work.
That lb has, to the best of my knowledge, never even been warned for her abrasive and confrontational posting style while others who were no less disruptive to threads have long since been banned is in my book good evidence for the liberal bias of the Ship.
[Hostly winged helmet ON] This thread was started by @Lamb Chopped and aimed at @lilbuddha. Just because we’re in Hell doesn’t mean that we don’t have to stay on topic. (But feel free to start new threads for other objects of your opprobrium.) [Hostly winged helmet OFF]
That lb has, to the best of my knowledge, never even been warned for her abrasive and confrontational posting style while others who were no less disruptive to threads have long since been banned is in my book good evidence for the liberal bias of the Ship.
Do you mean "no less" or "no more" - seems to me that it should be the latter.
Are you putting other Shipmates on trial now? I might be one of the few willing to come and take on all comers in Hell about it but given the sort of stuff some people see fit to post that isn't a surprise. I get a lot from LBs posts and really appreciate them on a lot of topics and I like her. Her posts can sometimes come off as too abrasive (so do mine when I'm really pissed off) but compared to this kind of accusatory stuff... I've never found her posts to be mean minded and I can't say the same about some of the posts in this thread.
I have read through this thread with fascination. Yes, it's true LB can be nitpicking and abrasive. So can I. So can quite a significant number of other Shipmates - in a variety of of ways. So something else is clearly at play here.
I was thinking about plenty of other Shipmates who can be annoying (myself included) and wondering why they (we) don't get this flak. And here is my theory. With most Shipmates, over time, you get to know them a bit. They might post snippets of their personal life, or have a bit of banter with you, or a bit of vulnerability, and you get that sense of connection. And once you have that connection, it's much easier to overloook all kinds of flaws and foibles.
LB doesn't tend to invite that connection though, which is entirely her right. If she found some way of doing this, she might find more people listen more openly to her viewpoint, and people would find this hostility towards her dissolving a bit. But she is under no obligation to do so.
I don't agree with The5thMary that LB is nasty. I haven't seen this at all. I have personally found her thoughtful and kind. These qualities can co-exist with nitpicking and abrasive. I will point out that when I observed a pattern of LB and others making dismissive/mocking comments about people who take things literally, and I posted about how this is rather ableist towards autistic people, LB was the only person who acknowledged this, and acknowledged it openly and without defensiveness. Which I think shows humility, and whatever the opposite of dismissiveness is.
Are you putting other Shipmates on trial now? I might be one of the few willing to come and take on all comers in Hell about it but given the sort of stuff some people see fit to post that isn't a surprise. I get a lot from LBs posts and really appreciate them on a lot of topics and I like her. Her posts can sometimes come off as too abrasive (so do mine when I'm really pissed off) but compared to this kind of accusatory stuff... I've never found her posts to be mean minded and I can't say the same about some of the posts in this thread.
Just reading fineline above, I think it's right that there are plenty of irritating people, but one thing about LB that amazes me is her energy, so she pops up on many threads. I find her very informative, actually. Her comments about gender are very insightful.
People can be good, sincere and well meaning, striving to defend and seek fair treatment for a vulnerable group in society and also get angry because they think there's an injustice and overstep a moderation line in a debate board. This isn't rocket science.
Just reading fineline above, I think it's right that there are plenty of irritating people, but one thing about LB that amazes me is her energy, so she pops up on many threads. I find her very informative, actually. Her comments about gender are very insightful.
Yes to all these. I'm always particularly impressed by LB's energy and tenacity, not just that she pops up on lots of threads, but also that she keeps going with what she feels is important to say, and doesn't give up and think 'Oh, what's the point?' I value her presence on the Ship.
Yes all of the above is true, but LB just doesn’t compromise. If you disagree with her view there is no meeting in the middle.
Like virtually everyone else then? I mean, do you change your mind and decide that perhaps Jews are a plotting to control all finance a bit to meet in the middle with anti-semites?
But we are talking about LB not a racist. These are discussion boards not opinion boards. You have to at least try to see the points the other side is making. On the thread I started about International Men’s Day she was adamant and would just not consider any contrary point of view. I am not going to agree with her on some things but I do take into consideration what she says. I do point out when she has made a good point. I rarely see that from LB. she is a great person but as I said we are here to discuss
I'm just weighing in here as someone who mostly lurks. I seek out both LB and LC - their views seem to overlap more than not, but they bring new perspective for me. And both are quite lovely.
There's no reason the second couldn't be temporary either. If a dodgy popular vote can drag the nation out of the EU against the wishes of the electorate then it's something that the electorate could reverse. The UK could rejoin the rest of the nations of Europe rather than pretend we aren't Europeans floating around the Atlantic on our own without a friend in the world.
There's no reason the second couldn't be temporary either. If a dodgy popular vote can drag the nation out of the EU against the wishes of the electorate then it's something that the electorate could reverse. The UK could rejoin the rest of the nations of Europe rather than pretend we aren't Europeans floating around the Atlantic on our own without a friend in the world.
The UK was not dragged out of the EU against the wishes of the electorate.
Tell me how many of the electorate expressed a desire for the economic disaster of leaving the EU without any sort of deal? How many wanted to lose influence over the regulations and standards needed to trade with our largest market by far? How many wanted to turn Kent into a lorry park?
There's no reason the second couldn't be temporary either. If a dodgy popular vote can drag the nation out of the EU against the wishes of the electorate then it's something that the electorate could reverse. The UK could rejoin the rest of the nations of Europe rather than pretend we aren't Europeans floating around the Atlantic on our own without a friend in the world.
The UK was not dragged out of the EU against the wishes of the electorate.
The distribution of votes in the 2019 General Election and the polling on the question of whether we should leave the EU say otherwise.
Tell me how many of the electorate expressed a desire for the economic disaster of leaving the EU without any sort of deal? How many wanted to lose influence over the regulations and standards needed to trade with our largest market by far? How many wanted to turn Kent into a lorry park?
We only know that 52% of those who bothered to vote wanted us to leave
There's no reason the second couldn't be temporary either. If a dodgy popular vote can drag the nation out of the EU against the wishes of the electorate then it's something that the electorate could reverse. The UK could rejoin the rest of the nations of Europe rather than pretend we aren't Europeans floating around the Atlantic on our own without a friend in the world.
The UK was not dragged out of the EU against the wishes of the electorate.
The distribution of votes in the 2019 General Election and the polling on the question of whether we should leave the EU say otherwise.
This was not a referendum on the EU. but we do know that under 12% voted for the only party who wanted us to cancel leaving the EU without any further referendum.
I dunno, I'm kind of talking to myself here, but ... if I find lB annoying, and there isn't any good way of determining whether the problem is her (for being annoying) or me (for being too sensitive), and lB isn't in breach of the rules, and my posting on a Hell thread isn't going to make her less annoying, ... then I don't think there's any option beyond: 'Live with it.'
(If anyone wants to drag up all the posts where I've snapped at lB, and say 'Physician, heal thyself', then feel free to flame away.)
I've generally read her in Purgatory. I think more than once I've tried to outline an argument only to have lilbuddha declare the entire position ridiculous without any particular sign of having tried to follow the argument. It is true that I sometimes don't succeed in being clear, but she doesn't seem to try. Several times I've noticed her misread other people's arguments in a way that suggested to me that she hadn't particularly bothered to understand it and had rather jumped to the worst possible construction. She also I think moves the goalposts a lot: in particular, advance an absolute position, retreat to a more defensible position when challenged, reassert the more absolute once the challenge is past. That's if she doesn't dismiss the challenge as missing her point.
If I didn't agree with her on a lot of points. I'd just write her off. As it is, I keep promising myself not to engage and then regretting not sticking to it.
{Hostly winged helmet ON:] @Telford and those engaging with him: This is not, in fact, Another Brexit Thread, and, unlike the Trumpton thread, it lacks the slow-mo amusement/horror of America's Worst-Ever president. Accordingly, please take it elsewhere - perhaps to, I don't know, an actual Brexit thread. Many thanks. [/Hostly winged helmet OFF]
{Hostly winged helmet ON:] @Telford and those engaging with him: This is not, in fact, Another Brexit Thread, and, unlike the Trumpton thread, it lacks the slow-mo amusement/horror of America's Worst-Ever president. Accordingly, please take it elsewhere - perhaps to, I don't know, an actual Brexit thread. Many thanks. [/Hostly winged helmet OFF]
Even though I did not start this nonsense, I get the blame again.
[Hostly winged helmet ON] @Telford, if you feel ill-used and 'picked on,' you could try following the advice that @Doc Tor and I have given you, and stay on-topic. Otherwise, you can take your complaint where it belongs: the Styx. Hell is not the place for it. [Hostly winged helmet OFF]
[Hostly winged helmet ON] @Telford, if you feel ill-used and 'picked on,' you could try following the advice that @Doc Tor and I have given you, and stay on-topic. Otherwise, you can take your complaint where it belongs: the Styx. Hell is not the place for it. [Hostly winged helmet OFF]
Once again I have to insist that I did not start the nonsense. Why haven't you criticised those that did start it ?
Comments
Yes I do!
(I'll get my coat.)
You are totally wrong mainly because the vast majority of people in this country are working class.
He wants to believe that only right-wingers get criticised on this site, so now there's a thread criticising a centrist he's got to make it all about him instead?
Oh, I see, you're going to use your own special meanings of words, just like Humpty Dumpty.
Do you enjoy being a bully ?
When you resort to talking crap, you have lost the argument.
"A useful scapegoat"? Are you smoking something? Seriously! She is one of THE most obnoxious people on The Ship. She is arrogant, shrill, nasty, dismissive, egotistical, and she sucks all the available oxygen out of every "room" she flounces into. She is not interested in a give and take discussion. She's not interested in anyone's point of view. And, if one happens (on a rare occasion!) to agree with her on some subject or discussion point, she sneers at the person until they are left stunned.
She's the human equivalent of a hurricane. A big bunch of wind and fury who leaves a wide swath of destruction in her wake.
This particular thread has a few days to go before it hits the buffers. Bear in mind that the caller is not obligated to post again, nor the callee to respond at all, or even read the thread. But the OP was genuine and heart-felt, and it might be that having that rant was sufficient to lance that particular boil.
If Telford wants to paint a target on himself here for reasons I'm struggling to understand, I can't stop him. While this thread is open, you're all free to pull whatever insectoid body parts you wish (within the rules), so have at it. It's not like I haven't seen this before, nor will it be the last time.
Obviously, I'd much prefer it if we actually stayed on topic. The purpose of Hell is best served by addressing the complaint, not dicking around.
Well, she allows people to vent their anger and bitterness and whatever. It's useful.
I know one where the shipmate never answered, and it went on for 25 pages. But that was on the old ship so maybe things are different here.
Your faulty memory?
You must know if you enjoy it or not
Do you mean "no less" or "no more" - seems to me that it should be the latter.
Cresswell has just referenced one such item.
I was thinking about plenty of other Shipmates who can be annoying (myself included) and wondering why they (we) don't get this flak. And here is my theory. With most Shipmates, over time, you get to know them a bit. They might post snippets of their personal life, or have a bit of banter with you, or a bit of vulnerability, and you get that sense of connection. And once you have that connection, it's much easier to overloook all kinds of flaws and foibles.
LB doesn't tend to invite that connection though, which is entirely her right. If she found some way of doing this, she might find more people listen more openly to her viewpoint, and people would find this hostility towards her dissolving a bit. But she is under no obligation to do so.
I don't agree with The5thMary that LB is nasty. I haven't seen this at all. I have personally found her thoughtful and kind. These qualities can co-exist with nitpicking and abrasive. I will point out that when I observed a pattern of LB and others making dismissive/mocking comments about people who take things literally, and I posted about how this is rather ableist towards autistic people, LB was the only person who acknowledged this, and acknowledged it openly and without defensiveness. Which I think shows humility, and whatever the opposite of dismissiveness is.
No, he didn't.
Yes to all these. I'm always particularly impressed by LB's energy and tenacity, not just that she pops up on lots of threads, but also that she keeps going with what she feels is important to say, and doesn't give up and think 'Oh, what's the point?' I value her presence on the Ship.
Like virtually everyone else then? I mean, do you change your mind and decide that perhaps Jews are a plotting to control all finance a bit to meet in the middle with anti-semites?
I don't meet in the middle, because I don't know what it means. As Karl said, racists are partly right?
You'd think so, wouldn't you. And yet Trump is still President of the US, Britain is still leaving the EU and Johnson still became Prime Minister.
The first and third are temporary.
The UK was not dragged out of the EU against the wishes of the electorate.
The distribution of votes in the 2019 General Election and the polling on the question of whether we should leave the EU say otherwise.
We only know that 52% of those who bothered to vote wanted us to leave
This was not a referendum on the EU. but we do know that under 12% voted for the only party who wanted us to cancel leaving the EU without any further referendum.
In other words, stop. Stay on target or bugger off.
DT
HH
(If anyone wants to drag up all the posts where I've snapped at lB, and say 'Physician, heal thyself', then feel free to flame away.)
If I didn't agree with her on a lot of points. I'd just write her off. As it is, I keep promising myself not to engage and then regretting not sticking to it.
Even though I did not start this nonsense, I get the blame again.
How very helpful you are. How about picking on someone else for a change
Once again I have to insist that I did not start the nonsense. Why haven't you criticised those that did start it ?
That would be the "and those engaging with him" bit, I believe. Also, it read to me as an instruction rather than a criticism.