Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

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Comments

  • Telford wrote: »
    Schools are no different to other places of work.

    They're a lot less safe. Not enough room to social distance, no requirement to wear masks and inadequate ventilation.

    Plus all the moving around and spending time in different rooms with different people rather than mostly being in the same room with the same people every day.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Exactly.

    A member of the congregation at Our Place is a teaching assistant, and AIUI is desperately worried that she will be expected to return to a non-Covid-secure workplace (many of our local schools are still in old, cramped buildings, with little room or £££ for improvement).

    She is a single parent, with two children, so perhaps @Telford could explain how she is to live, if she cannot go back to work, and gets the sack, as our dear brother (?) obviously thinks she should.
    :angry:
  • Unless I've missed something very recently published (and it can be tricky keeping up with the information) the latest government advice is that shielders no longer need to shield.

    So, effectively there are no shielders any more; no-one categorically more medically vulnerable to the virus, than anyone else. No doubt for those who were shielding, this will have come as a great relief to them!

    Of course, as we know this is 'government advice' and no-one has to follow it. So even though the politicians have told you you're fit enough to be exposed to any risk out there, you're still quite free to imagine you have a need to remain anxious about the likelihood of contracting Covid-19, and worry about the risks (which the Government says are no longer significant enough to worry about) returning to work. Which of course may affect your livelihood, your finances and your future. But that'll be your fault, of course, because it's your 'choice'.

    Glad we got that settled, then!
  • Anselmina wrote: »
    Unless I've missed something very recently published (and it can be tricky keeping up with the information) the latest government advice is that shielders no longer need to shield.

    So, effectively there are no shielders any more; no-one categorically more medically vulnerable to the virus, than anyone else. No doubt for those who were shielding, this will have come as a great relief to them!

    Of course, as we know this is 'government advice' and no-one has to follow it. So even though the politicians have told you you're fit enough to be exposed to any risk out there, you're still quite free to imagine you have a need to remain anxious about the likelihood of contracting Covid-19, and worry about the risks (which the Government says are no longer significant enough to worry about) returning to work. Which of course may affect your livelihood, your finances and your future. But that'll be your fault, of course, because it's your 'choice'.

    Glad we got that settled, then!

    Indeed.

    The most up to date official advice is that no-one needs to shield. This is because virus levels in the community are low-enough not to need to. (Ahem, cough, cough).

    There is some wriggle-room round the edges as some of the people advised to shield (i.e. children with CF) may not need to as may not be at a higher risk. However, diabetics are undoubtedly at much higher risk.

    The data is incomplete and thus I cannot say for certain that schools are a risky workplace for staff but there are lots of logical reasons to think they will be.

    As you say, the government is only interested in not being held responsible.

    AFZ
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    <snip> (Ahem, cough, cough). <snip>
    Have you had that cough long? How’s your sense of smell? Shouldn’t you be self-isolating?
  • But let the skivers and the workshy go back to work, anyway! With any luck, they'll get the virus, die, and be no longer a burden on the state.
    :rage:
  • BroJames wrote: »
    <snip> (Ahem, cough, cough). <snip>
    Have you had that cough long? How’s your sense of smell? Shouldn’t you be self-isolating?

    Hee hee... don't worry; we're on weekly testing at the moment...
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    As I said, not an easy problem to fix...

    @Telford, have you ever actually been into a school? Especially one which is usually crowded, and short of space at the best of times.

    Back in the 50s. 50 pupils in a class.
    Exactly.

    A member of the congregation at Our Place is a teaching assistant, and AIUI is desperately worried that she will be expected to return to a non-Covid-secure workplace (many of our local schools are still in old, cramped buildings, with little room or £££ for improvement).

    She is a single parent, with two children, so perhaps @Telford could explain how she is to live, if she cannot go back to work, and gets the sack, as our dear brother (?) obviously thinks she should.
    :angry:

    If she is fit and healthy she should return to work.

  • They're a lot less safe. Not enough room to social distance, no requirement to wear masks and inadequate ventilation.

    Plus, of course, it's much easier to fire employees who breach safety protocols than it is to fire school pupils.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    Telford wrote: »
    As I said, not an easy problem to fix...

    @Telford, have you ever actually been into a school? Especially one which is usually crowded, and short of space at the best of times.

    Back in the 50s. 50 pupils in a class.
    Exactly.

    A member of the congregation at Our Place is a teaching assistant, and AIUI is desperately worried that she will be expected to return to a non-Covid-secure workplace (many of our local schools are still in old, cramped buildings, with little room or £££ for improvement).

    She is a single parent, with two children, so perhaps @Telford could explain how she is to live, if she cannot go back to work, and gets the sack, as our dear brother (?) obviously thinks she should.
    :angry:

    If she is fit and healthy she should return to work.
    And if she falls ill, Dominic Cummings will drive her to County Durham so his parents can look after her children.
  • Ethne AlbaEthne Alba Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    I really do wish that people’s illnesses were as easily definable as Receiving A Government Shielding Letter.



    I worked in Early Years and a few years back gave up paid employment before my pensionable age for health reasons . We are fortunate and my husband can support me.

    Why did I do such a foolhardy thing?
    Because my husband asked me to.

    Why did he ask me to stop working at something I had done since teens?
    He was fed up to the back teeth with having to properly look after me Every Single Time I became ill.

    My sickness record was atrocious.
    Every bug going I picked up and my lungs objected. Treatment stripped my innards out, weight plummeted, couldn’t keep anything down.... etc etc

    It was a vicious revolving door situation of : go back to work, but Only Work In The Same Setting For One Day.
    If I worked two days in a row in the same setting (because I was soft and gave in to emotional pleading).... down I went , like a row of skittles.

    It was easier to just call a halt.





    I didn’t receive an official shielding letter. Because I have not had treatment in a hospital during the past twelve months.

    Why bother to say all this?
    Coz I m as sure as heck relieved that I am no longer one of those people who should Go Back To Work.

    If I had not have left Then, I would Now.


    I fear that from day nurseries up to sixth form colleges, the UK will be teacher numbers Down before too long.
  • Telford wrote: »
    If she is fit and healthy she should return to work.

    I am fit and healthy. My family is fit and healthy. My willingness to "go to work" is entirely dependent on the extent to which my employer and my colleagues provide a safe workspace.

    Nothing the US government says about Covid-19 is credible (thanks, Trump!), so any official governmental pronouncement is irrelevant. I don't think the UK government is much more credible.
  • Telford wrote: »
    If she is fit and healthy she should return to work.

    I am fit and healthy. My family is fit and healthy. My willingness to "go to work" is entirely dependent on the extent to which my employer and my colleagues provide a safe workspace.

    Nothing the US government says about Covid-19 is credible (thanks, Trump!), so any official governmental pronouncement is irrelevant. I don't think the UK government is much more credible.

    Just so.

    @Telford, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you make your stupid, ignorant, and unfeeling remarks simply because you are a stupid, ignorant, and unfeeling person, and not deliberately malevolent.

  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    While tidying in my bedroom I came across a badge reading "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity." Or similar.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    :lol:

    I think it's Hanlon's Razor:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
  • I had a weird dream last night , that ABdePJ resigned
    And came to live in Scotland.
  • Ethne Alba wrote: »
    I had a weird dream last night , that ABdePJ resigned
    And came to live in Scotland.

    Does that count as a dream or a nightmare? :naughty:
  • The result was certainly a degree of temporary discombobulation.....

    For me? A nightmare
  • O definitely a nightmare...but when Scotland becomes independent, he could be deported as an Undesirable Alien (I'm sure a suitable excuse might be found).

    Rumour has it that The Invisible Man is in Greece at present, on holiday with his Pateras.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    But let the skivers and the workshy go back to work, anyway! With any luck, they'll get the virus, die, and be no longer a burden on the state.
    :rage:
    Hang on a minute - if they're going back to work, they aren't a burden on the state ... :confused:
  • Ah - I wondered if someone would spot the lack of logic...but then, we don't expect common-sense from those who unfeelingly condemn out-of-hand such a dedicated and caring bunch as Teachers.

    It is, I'm afraid, the Stupid, Ignorant, and Unfeeling who are a burden on the rest of us.
    :angry:
  • It is, I'm afraid, the Stupid, Ignorant, and Unfeeling who are a burden on the rest of us.
    :angry:
    The sooner there's an election and we can vote them out of office the better.

  • Hehe...I didn't quite mean that, but your point is taken!

    BTW, the Daily Wail (my apologies for mentioning it on a Christian website) has apparently published a photograph purporting to show the Lord Protector camping in Scotland.

    I now hear that this photo is thought to be Fake News, and a Hideous Fib.

    Wherever He is, He remains, it seems, Invisible. Long may this be the case...
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    BroJames wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    As I said, not an easy problem to fix...

    @Telford, have you ever actually been into a school? Especially one which is usually crowded, and short of space at the best of times.

    Back in the 50s. 50 pupils in a class.
    Exactly.

    A member of the congregation at Our Place is a teaching assistant, and AIUI is desperately worried that she will be expected to return to a non-Covid-secure workplace (many of our local schools are still in old, cramped buildings, with little room or £££ for improvement).

    She is a single parent, with two children, so perhaps @Telford could explain how she is to live, if she cannot go back to work, and gets the sack, as our dear brother (?) obviously thinks she should.
    :angry:

    If she is fit and healthy she should return to work.
    And if she falls ill, Dominic Cummings will drive her to County Durham so his parents can look after her children.

    Certainly not. He has other duties
    Telford wrote: »
    If she is fit and healthy she should return to work.

    I am fit and healthy. My family is fit and healthy. My willingness to "go to work" is entirely dependent on the extent to which my employer and my colleagues provide a safe workspace.
    You are far too demanding


    Telford wrote: »
    If she is fit and healthy she should return to work.

    I am fit and healthy. My family is fit and healthy. My willingness to "go to work" is entirely dependent on the extent to which my employer and my colleagues provide a safe workspace.

    Nothing the US government says about Covid-19 is credible (thanks, Trump!), so any official governmental pronouncement is irrelevant. I don't think the UK government is much more credible.

    Just so.

    @Telford, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you make your stupid, ignorant, and unfeeling remarks simply because you are a stupid, ignorant, and unfeeling person, and not deliberately malevolent.
    You have run out of anything useful to say so you resort to insults.
  • Not This Shit Again.
  • Telford wrote: »
    My willingness to "go to work" is entirely dependent on the extent to which my employer and my colleagues provide a safe workspace.
    You are far too demanding
    Why would you think it's too demanding to expect employers to fulfil their legal requirements to provide safe workspaces.
  • Hehe...I didn't quite mean that, but your point is taken!

    BTW, the Daily Wail (my apologies for mentioning it on a Christian website) has apparently published a photograph purporting to show the Lord Protector camping in Scotland.

    I now hear that this photo is thought to be Fake News, and a Hideous Fib.

    Wherever He is, He remains, it seems, Invisible. Long may this be the case...

    When I heard that he was camping I was a bit sceptical: unless you really know what you are doing, or positively glamping, tents and small babies aren't generally a good mix.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    @Telford said:

    You have run out of anything useful to say so you resort to insults.

    I will treat that remark with the contempt it, and you @Telford, deserve. You never seem to have anything useful to say.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Is there a @Teford hell thread?

    I think he’s on a wind up mission here.
  • Pendragon wrote: »
    Hehe...I didn't quite mean that, but your point is taken!

    BTW, the Daily Wail (my apologies for mentioning it on a Christian website) has apparently published a photograph purporting to show the Lord Protector camping in Scotland.

    I now hear that this photo is thought to be Fake News, and a Hideous Fib.

    Wherever He is, He remains, it seems, Invisible. Long may this be the case...

    When I heard that he was camping I was a bit sceptical: unless you really know what you are doing, or positively glamping, tents and small babies aren't generally a good mix.

    Indeed. It might be mildly interesting to know just where he actually is - not that it would be of any use to the country at large, given that ConDom Cummings is now our de facto Great Leader™...
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    @Telford said:

    You have run out of anything useful to say so you resort to insults.

    I will treat that remark with the contempt it, and you @Telford, deserve. You never seem to have anything useful to say.

    More insults.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    My willingness to "go to work" is entirely dependent on the extent to which my employer and my colleagues provide a safe workspace.
    You are far too demanding
    Why would you think it's too demanding to expect employers to fulfil their legal requirements to provide safe workspaces.

    The poster wanted more than that. They demanded the impossible. No placve can be totally safe.
  • Reasonably safe?
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    As safe as possible.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    Is there a @Teford hell thread?

    I think he’s on a wind up mission here.

    Not at present. It was closed a little while ago but I thought it wouldn't be the last.

    The MO continues unabated;

    1) Be an arse hole on a thread
    and/or 2) post unsupported assertions
    3) When called on 1) or 2), play the victim.
    4) Rince and repeat.

    I have tried, repeatedly to engage and encourage a more constructive approach but I remain rebuffed.

    I'm sure it's only a matter of time...

    AFZ
  • Telford wrote: »
    @Telford said:

    You have run out of anything useful to say so you resort to insults.

    I will treat that remark with the contempt it, and you @Telford, deserve. You never seem to have anything useful to say.

    More insults.

    QED.

  • Passive aggression. Who me?
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    @Telford said:

    You have run out of anything useful to say so you resort to insults.

    I will treat that remark with the contempt it, and you @Telford, deserve. You never seem to have anything useful to say.

    More insults.

    QED.

    Ab irato
  • Not at all. You're not worth getting angry about...and neither am I...
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Not at all. You're not worth getting angry about...and neither am I...
    Correct. I'm not worthy.
  • The schools are back in Scotland, and so England should have a heads-up of the problems which will inevitably arise here.

    My niece and nephew each had a day in school last week (Wed for niece, Thurs for nephew) in which they practised social distancing and hand-washing , went over the new rules and timetables etc. The whole school started properly on Monday. The first two days have gone well, they tell me.

    Aaaand... there's been a case at the school, the whole school is closed today for deep cleaning over the weekend, re-opening on Monday.



  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    But...but...Gavin said it would all be All Right! Could he possibly be wrong...??

    IOW, as usual, the *government* (English, that is) is probably forging ahead much too fast. Still, Boris The Invisible is camping away - somewhere - so all must be well.

    I think.
    :confused:

    I don't doubt that teachers in England are keeping a very close eye on what's happening in Scotland. No disrespect there, at all, to the Scottish government, of course.
  • It's stunning really but I keep coming back to the conclusion that Johnson just doesn't want to be Prime Minister.

    It's all a bit sad really but we are all victims.

    Say what you like about May - and I could (and did) say plenty - at least she wanted to do the job!

    AFZ
  • I think Berlin has had cases in schools, 41 reported in the Irish News. I don't know what this means, but remember, we will be world-beating.
  • O Deep Joy...that means (in toryspeak) more cases than anywhere else in the whole wide world...

    BTW, why are you @quetzalcoatl resorting to the Irish News for information? Can it be that *gasp* you don't trust our TrueBlue English meeja?
  • O Deep Joy...that means (in toryspeak) more cases than anywhere else in the whole wide world...

    BTW, why are you @quetzalcoatl resorting to the Irish News for information? Can it be that *gasp* you don't trust our TrueBlue English meeja?

    It was the first newspaper that popped up on Google. This schools thing is a complete mystery, they were saying kids don't catch the virus, so how is it getting into schools?
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Does it perhaps depend on the age of the children involved? Some say that it's the secondary school age Yoof wot is the problem...

    Your excuse as to the use of a Foreign Newspaper is accepted, but don't let it happen again.
    :wink:

    English News is world-beating, and not Fake. ConDom Cummings' *government* says so.
  • Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    My willingness to "go to work" is entirely dependent on the extent to which my employer and my colleagues provide a safe workspace.
    You are far too demanding
    Why would you think it's too demanding to expect employers to fulfil their legal requirements to provide safe workspaces.

    The poster wanted more than that. They demanded the impossible. No placve can be totally safe.

    I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth, @Telford. To remind you, I said
    My willingness to "go to work" is entirely dependent on the extent to which my employer and my colleagues provide a safe workspace.

    Of course no place is totally safe. The question is whether my employer and colleagues are making my risk of catching Covid-19 at work as low as reasonably achievable.

    To recap, SARS-CoV-2 is transmitted through contact transmission (someone touches virus-contaminated surface, then touches their face), and through airborne exhalation aerosols.

    Apart from frequent handwashing, sensible measures to combat the former include both frequent cleaning of touch surfaces, and altering work processes to eliminate shared use of touch surfaces. So if you're a hotel reception, rather than having any receptionist hop on to any computer to check guests in, assign a machine to an individual for the duration of their shift.

    To combat the latter, put masks on people when in shared spaces, pay attention to ventilation, and generally space people out / don't have them share spaces. Which includes telling people who can work from home to remain at home, and going through all your work processes to see which tasks you can serialize (so have fewer people standing next to each other.)

    A sensible employer will be doing all this anyway, because working at lower efficiency because of Covid precautions is better than being shut down because all your staff are in quarantine. But as we all know, "sensible" isn't always available.
  • This schools thing is a complete mystery, they were saying kids don't catch the virus, so how is it getting into schools?

    One of our local high schools has closed it's building twice in the last month for cleaning, because someone who has been there has tested positive for Covid-19. The kids are all going to be doing remote learning - the people who have been in the building have been a small number of teachers / admin staff, and some janitorial staff.

    You may find this article of interest.
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