Why are dessserts so often awful?

HugalHugal Shipmate
edited August 2020 in Hell
Yes I know I am qualified as a pastry chef so may be a little biased, but so many places think about their savoury food and desserts are an after thought. Badly made or cheaply bought in. A proper dessert finishes a meal off perfectly, even a well made bought in one. Restaurants charge a high price for what is often second rate.
I am not expecting casual dining places to have a pastry chef or small local restaurants either just give it some thought.
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Comments

  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Dyslexia strikes again. Would a kindly admin add an S to Desert in the title
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited August 2020
    As a home cook I can happily put any amount of effort into a main, but somehow anything seems too much trouble for just a couple of sweet mouthfuls.

    So yes, chez Firenze is the mainstay of the panna cotta industry.

    (Having said that I am going to exert myself the length of Apple Snow for the windfalls).
  • <cue evil laughter> it's the revenge of the gluten- and dairy (simultaneously) intolerant. It's almost impossible to make a nice, decadent dessert that does not involve chocolate (yes I seem these days also to react to chocolate as if it were a mega-stimulant, complete with blinding headaches), so we have taken over the restaurant industry and banished the concept of decadence for all. <evil laughter repeated for effect as the evil ?genius? retreats>
  • I must eat in the wrong restaurants (though, I admit I don't eat out that often). I don't always have a dessert, in most cases the main has been more than sufficient, but when I do I can't recall the last time I had cause for complaint (in fact, the last time I had cause for complaint the main course was awful and we didn't even try the dessert list, if a restaurant serves inedible risotto and can't even cook chips who'd risk another course?).

    I often eat at smaller places, usually where in addition to lunch and dinner they run as tea/coffee shops in the morning and afternoon and therefore have a good selection of quality cakes and the like, and also usually good light meals (soup etc).
  • A lot of places, especially pubs, seem to work on the basis that no-one will have room for pudding once they have eaten the giant starters and mains they serve, so there is no point putting as much effort into them.

    I think also that the industry prioritises fancy mains over desserts. If you watch most flavours of Masterchef the tasks are very much skewed towards meat until the later stages when they start doing full menus. I know a lot of them require a fair amount of setting time, but it says a lot when the art of patisserie is relegated to the unpublicised sibling of Bake Off.
  • I had a very fine chocolate brownie ice cream sundae last week, while away for work, though the sticky toffee pudding the next night was a bit disappointing.
  • I suppose it is a distinct skill - as a pastry chef - and so would require someone with equal talents in such a role.

    However, I am not sure I agree with the OP. Most places I have been to have had desserts the same quality as their (vegetarian) mains. Which is variable.

    If it were me, I would run a restaurant that only did starters (savoury nibbles) and desserts. Skip all the nutritious stuff in between.

    [As to the actual OP, deserts are generally awful because they have no water, no life, and you can die there.]
  • Hehe - the thread title appears to have been amended by Gollum...

    We hates puddingses, yess we does, Preciousss...
  • Because there isn't enough chocolate! When I was still eating out I was often dismayed that there was nothing with chocolate on offer. Or, if there was, what came was merely brown.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    ... If it were me, I would run a restaurant that only did starters (savoury nibbles) and desserts ...
    David and I used to have a vague fantasy of setting up a restaurant called Piglet's Pudding Emporium that would do really good soup, bread, cheese, pâté, pickles and chutneys and simple but excellent puddings*.

    I'm inclined to agree with @Hugal that puddings can be disappointing, and if I have a choice, I'll always have a cheeseboard instead.

    When we lived in Canada, we found that the puddings tended to be tooth-rottingly sweet and usually so massive that one between us was more than enough.

    * As my pudding repertoire only extends to Cranachan, chocolate mousse and bread-and-butter pudding, the emphasis would be on "simple".
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I used to head for the cheeseboard if available but often I found that a disappointment in another way - "How did you find your Stilton sir?"
    "It was hiding under that grape".
  • DardaDarda Shipmate
    Anyone remember the old Kite area of Cambridge (UK) before it was cleared and redeveloped? My memory is a bit hazy but I recall it was the done thing to eat your main meal at one establishment (Potter Products?) and then move on to another (Waffles? / Strudels?) for dessert
  • What really pisses me off is when you order a cream cake, because it was a cream cake, and then they have filled it with sweet paste - custard or confectioners cream.

    Eclairs are a particular Russian roulette in that regard.

    The cream is to contrast or mitigate the sweetness !
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Eclairs are traditionally filled with Creme Patisserie. Cream is a fairly modern thing.
    Desserts require a skill set that is different from main course or starter cookery. Most chefs are better at latter two. You can get some decent ready made stuff from a wholesaler.
    It is also the fact that you often see a big savoury choice but two or three desserts.
    Pendragon I agree Bake Off the Professionals got hidden away. It is great and the judges are some of the toughest on TV.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Have you tried dessert pizza? 😋😈
  • Pick your tradition, I’ve been eating cream cakes nearly half a century - and non-cream in them has always been the odd disappointing aberration.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    Dyslexia strikes again. Would a kindly admin add an S to Desert in the title
    Well, I think your request was granted, and then some. :wink:

    It's almost impossible to make a nice, decadent dessert that does not involve chocolate . . . .
    Here we must disagree. For my money, it’s almost impossible to make a nice, decadent dessert that does involve chocolate.

    Yes, I know I’m weird, but I’ve never been a chocolate fan at all, and really have never understood why people go ga-ga over it. There are a few exceptions—I love my mother’s chocolate pie and I enjoy a good brownie. (Though I enjoy a blond brownie even more.) But I pretty much avoid chocolate cake, chocolate sauces and other chocolate desserts completely. Even chocolate chip cookies are the cookie of last resort and are easy for me to pass on. And desserts with chocolate on chocolate on chocolate are definitely not my thing.

    I guess I haven’t encountered the problem in the OP often enough to think there’s a widespread problem. Yes, occasionally the dessert disappoints, usually it seems because it’s too sweet/not balanced or because of something like a poorly-made pie crust. But the times I have a complaint—particularly the times when the main course has been very good and the dessert not—are the exception, not the rule.

  • tclunetclune Shipmate
    My wife and I have the opposite complaint about the dessert menu -- it tends to be heavy (literally) on desserts that only a glutton could consume after a nice meal. Why don't more nice restaurants offer a nice, light gelato or the like as something akin to a palate cleanser to accompany one's coffee at the end of the meal? Most of the decent restaurants around here seem to think that a syrupy, gooey calorie fest is all that counts as dessert.
  • Yes. A nice fruity sorbet is what's wanted, before the CHEESE.

    But for those who don't like CHOCOLATE, I can only :cry:
  • Hehe - the thread title appears to have been amended by Gollum...

    We hates puddingses, yess we does, Preciousss...

    S is one of my favourite letters on the keyboard.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    But for those who don't like CHOCOLATE, I can only :cry:
    Do not :cry: for us. Rejoice! As I tell my wife, it means more chocolate for the rest of you. :wink:

    Meanwhile, cheese at the end of the meal is very rarely encountered here.

  • @Piglet ..... I would Travel to visit a restaurant such as you describe.
    .....
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    Cream in eclairs is an English abomination. They are supposed to be filled with crème pâtissière. There's a boulangerie around the corner from my house that won the "best chocolate eclair in Paris" competition this year. So that's us sorted for dessert then.
  • O that Kent could become a departement of France! Then maybe we would have such boulangeries as you describe...

    ...and proper frites , but that's another matter.
  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    I seldom have room for dessert but when I do it tends to be a mousse (chocolate or fruity) or creme brulee as I would want something lighter. Besides which, if I wanted a proper suet pudding or a decent fruit pie I’d get my husband to make one.
    I would, however, have creme patisserie over cream in a cake or tart; I love custard.
    I’m very much a cheese fan but I seldom order a cheese plate as the selection is usually poor and I have better cheese at home. I’m always disappointed with them.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Ah! Suet Pudding! The very food of the Gods!

    My Old Mum used to make a special Sunday Pudding, called *ahem* Spotted Dick, which is traditionally accompanied by Custard. We, however, preferred it to be soaked in Treacle (aka Golden Syrup), which was warmed up beforehand so as to be nice and runny.
    :yum:

    I doubt if you could find such a Pudding in a restaurant today - it would probably be illegal - but it would go well on the menu at Piglet's Pudding Emporium (which, I am sure, will be found in Heaven, if not here below in the Vale of Tears just yet).
  • There used to be a monthly Pudding Club in Cambridge, I think it had hearty puddings for main and dessert. Not sure where it met, I think it was somewhere near the Gogs (the only hills in Cambridge) but I can’t find any record of it now.
    My husband makes Spotted Dick, with Birds custard, of course.
  • A nice variation on the theme is, of course, Jam Roly-Poly.

    AIUI, the rule is to serve this with Custard, too, but, as I (*shock* *horror*) don't like Custard, warm and runny extra Jam can be added instead...

    Is it just me, or is this thread turning distinctly less Hellish?
    :wink:
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    The derivation of Spotted Dick is thus.
    A dick is an old English (or very old) word for a log one may find on the floor in a forest or similar. Spotted Dick pudding looks like a log with spots in it.
    I am sure I don’t have to explain the slang use for a male member
  • Hugal wrote: »
    Yes I know I am qualified as a pastry chef so may be a little biased, but so many places think about their savoury food and desserts are an after thought. Badly made or cheaply bought in. A proper dessert finishes a meal off perfectly, even a well made bought in one. Restaurants charge a high price for what is often second rate.
    I am not expecting casual dining places to have a pastry chef or small local restaurants either just give it some thought.

    I virtually never eat any dessert ... By the time I have finished a delicious nutritious meal, I don't need anything else or more ... I DO enjoy an occasional yummy pastry as a treat in its own right ...
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    the Gogs (the only hills in Cambridge)
    And even then 'hills' is relative.

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I find desserts a bit meh because (cue disbelief) I don't like cream. It almost tastes of nothing and I don't care for what taste it does have.

    Can't abide custard either.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    It is also the fact that you often see a big savoury choice but two or three desserts.

    Here in the US, I tend to find restaurant desserts too large, too sweet, and rather lacking in flavour. Mrs. C and I still talk about the anniversary meal we had at a (generally rather good) local restaurant. The main course was fish, cooked to perfection (can't actually remember what fish it was - just that it was good), and the promised dessert was a decadent slice of chocolate cake to share. What came was a massive wodge the size of my head (literally!), which was overly sweet, but also rather frothy and lacking in any kind of strong taste. We took most of it home with us, and after a couple more forkfuls the next day, threw it away.


  • tclune wrote: »
    My wife and I have the opposite complaint about the dessert menu -- it tends to be heavy (literally) on desserts that only a glutton could consume after a nice meal. Why don't more nice restaurants offer a nice, light gelato or the like as something akin to a palate cleanser to accompany one's coffee at the end of the meal? Most of the decent restaurants around here seem to think that a syrupy, gooey calorie fest is all that counts as dessert.
    This is a restaurant we used to frequent (until we moved), as you can see many of the desserts - which are good - are available in "sample" sizes. http://www.tuddenhamfountain.co.uk/menus/dessert-menu/

  • tclunetclune Shipmate
    tclune wrote: »
    My wife and I have the opposite complaint about the dessert menu -- it tends to be heavy (literally) on desserts that only a glutton could consume after a nice meal. Why don't more nice restaurants offer a nice, light gelato or the like as something akin to a palate cleanser to accompany one's coffee at the end of the meal? Most of the decent restaurants around here seem to think that a syrupy, gooey calorie fest is all that counts as dessert.
    This is a restaurant we used to frequent (until we moved), as you can see many of the desserts - which are good - are available in "sample" sizes. http://www.tuddenhamfountain.co.uk/menus/dessert-menu/

    Looks good, except for the "dogs are welcome."
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Looks good, except for the "dogs are welcome."

    I agree. It’s a pain for service dog owners having unruly pooches in restaurants. My pups are good as gold in restaurants and cafes, but many others are an absolute untrained pain. I avoid ‘dogs welcome’ restaurants with my dog! 🐕

    Puddings - I agree with @tclune. Something nice, light and lemony is my favourite.
  • That’s another thing, £6.25 for a creme brûlée and shortbread - is it dusted with gold as well as sugar?
    I do admit I like sample sized puddings served with coffee. Though at present I quite fancy an espresso martini instead.
  • DardaDarda Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    the Gogs (the only hills in Cambridge)
    And even then 'hills' is relative.
    I remember trying to impress my wife (before we married) by taking her up to the Gogs. Coming from Yorkshire, she just laughed and asked where the hills were!

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    I find desserts a bit meh because (cue disbelief) I don't like cream. It almost tastes of nothing and I don't care for what taste it does have.

    Can't abide custard either.

    I'm not a fan of pouring cream, but I do like it well whipped and flavoured. Lemon and lime zest added at the time of whipping and given an hour or two to stand in the fridge before serving is an excellent accompaniement to a chocolate brownie or torte. Vanilla essence or coffee make excellent flavourings too.
  • A good tarte tatin is a thing of great beauty.
  • @OP why are desserts/ deserts/ dessserts so awful?

    Too much sugar. Routinely in baking we find that sugar at the levels of recipes is far too high.
  • @OP why are desserts/ deserts/ dessserts so awful?

    Too much sugar. Routinely in baking we find that sugar at the levels of recipes is far too high.

    The wrong kind of sugar can make a difference too.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Best experiences are: (a) At a diner, where the desserts are on display in a case behind the counter and you can choose what you think looks good. Cakes and pies always look so appealing. (b) At an upscale restaurant where they wheel the dessert cart to your table and, again, you can choose what looks good.

    Not now, of course. Most diners around here are take-out only, and I won't set foot in a restaurant until I've been vaccinated.

    Worst experience is where you have to order blind from the dessert menu and even the most appealing-sounding treats arrive at your table as a big disappointment.
  • At an upscale restaurant where they wheel the dessert cart to your table and, again, you can choose what looks good.
    Perhaps there's a Pond difference here, but I haven't seen a dessert trolley in a British restaurant for years!

  • Me neither!
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Best experiences are: (a) At a diner, where the desserts are on display in a case behind the counter and you can choose what you think looks good. Cakes and pies always look so appealing. (b) At an upscale restaurant where they wheel the dessert cart to your table and, again, you can choose what looks good.

    Not now, of course. Most diners around here are take-out only, and I won't set foot in a restaurant until I've been vaccinated.

    Worst experience is where you have to order blind from the dessert menu and even the most appealing-sounding treats arrive at your table as a big disappointment.

    So long as the dessert cart is at the correct temperature. I am always wary of those.
    Going to be controversial here. We accept low quality Deserts in a way we wouldn’t accept low quality main courses. Proper desserts are worth £6:50 or whatever. We expect lower quality and we get it. If a creme brûlée has a proper top that cracks it showed care has been taken somewhere. Some places put just sugar on top and try to melt it. You will burn it. The proper topping for a cream brûlée is melted clear sugar, let set and ground to a powder. That way it melts and resets quickly.
    I may be at odds with some here
  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    I don’t expect low quality. I regularly eat in good restaurants (well, used to) but still think £6.50 is too much for custard with sugar on top. I think it is unlikely the restaurant is grinding their own sugar.
    I think part of the issue is that I am a very good cook myself. As the only daughter still at home I started cooking for my four older brothers aged 13 years. At seventeen the manager of the small care home I worked in taught me catering cookery so I could cover for her when she was away. I am a very experienced and good cook married to an adventurous and good cook and when we visit a restaurant it’s like we are doing a magazine food review. I know staffing, training and atmosphere costs money but being able to make something yourself colours the attitude. I’m the same buying crafts, I think ‘I can make that myself’.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    I don’t expect low quality. I regularly eat in good restaurants (well, used to) but still think £6.50 is too much for custard with sugar on top. I think it is unlikely the restaurant is grinding their own sugar.
    I think part of the issue is that I am a very good cook myself. As the only daughter still at home I started cooking for my four older brothers aged 13 years. At seventeen the manager of the small care home I worked in taught me catering cookery so I could cover for her when she was away. I am a very experienced and good cook married to an adventurous and good cook and when we visit a restaurant it’s like we are doing a magazine food review. I know staffing, training and atmosphere costs money but being able to make something yourself colours the attitude. I’m the same buying crafts, I think ‘I can make that myself’.

    I am glad you go to good restaurants. Casual dining restaurants have taken over here in the UK. Their desserts are largely pre made of mixed quality. They charge the same as a decent restaurant would for a dessert. I go to casual dining restaurants but less and less get a dessert. Casual dining has brought eating out into the realm of more people. Which is good, mostly. One of them would not sell me a starter off a set menu when I was eating A la Cart because it could not go through the till individually.
    Anyway if we pay the same for a pre made (but good) dessert in a casual dining restaurant as we pay in a nice restaurant where it is made on the premises we are happy to pay more for less
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    The other thing I hate is when I order cheese cake, by which I mean a cold thing with pressed biscuit base and fluffy white bit and then jam on the top - and they give me baked cheesecake (when they haven’t specified this abomination on the menu).

    Or serve rice pudding cold when they haven’t warned you.

    Also, for clarity, I don’t want a fruit couli on either my cake or my rice pudding, I want jam !
  • Rice pudding in a restaurant?

    As for cheesecake, there's the very dense variety, the baked one you don't like, and the Japanese one which contains eggwhites to make it fluffy as a dream. The Japanese one is the best. I actually just put one of these in the oven. The worst cheesecake ever was made of tofu.

    I've heard of couli, no idea what it actually is. Do I need to know?
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