Why are dessserts so often awful?

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  • I've heard of couli, no idea what it actually is. Do I need to know?

    A coulis is a strained fruit (usually) puree, used as a thin sauce, typically drizzled over your cheesecake (or whatever).
  • At an upscale restaurant where they wheel the dessert cart to your table and, again, you can choose what looks good.
    Perhaps there's a Pond difference here, but I haven't seen a dessert trolley in a British restaurant for years!

    There's a couple of Italian restaurants nearby that have such a trolley.
  • Some cafes/restaurants put their desserts in those glass cabinet carousel things - here in Britain. I'm not convinced these are the ones we get to eat. Or whether revolved, on-display food, where people are constantly walking around is really a good thing? I get that they're behind glass, but still.

    It's rare for me to meet a dessert I don't like. Although in recent years I've been moving towards starters and mains and forgetting about pud. Not fond of liquid custard. And a fruit salad would have to be sensational for me to choose that over anything chocolate. Love bread and butter pudding.
  • Rice pudding in a restaurant?
    In Portugal, definitely. Always chilled and with a sprinkling of cinnamon on top. Yummy!

  • And Turkish rice pudding, and Indian rice pudding, and Thai sweet sticky rice....
  • At an upscale restaurant where they wheel the dessert cart to your table and, again, you can choose what looks good.
    Perhaps there's a Pond difference here, but I haven't seen a dessert trolley in a British restaurant for years!
    I’m not sure it’s a Pond difference. Dessert trollies are very rare in my part of the US.

    The other thing I hate is when I order cheese cake, by which I mean a cold thing with pressed biscuit base and fluffy white bit and then jam on the top - and they give me baked cheesecake (when they haven’t specified this abomination on the menu).
    Perhaps we can arrange a trade. Cheesecake here is, in my experience, always assumed to be baked, unless it’s the boxed dreck called “no-bake cheesecake.” I would consider anything called a cheesecake that isn’t baked or that has jam on top to be the abomination, as well as a total waste of calories.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Perhaps we can arrange a trade. Cheesecake here is, in my experience, always assumed to be baked, unless it’s the boxed dreck called “no-bake cheesecake.” I would consider anything called a cheesecake that isn’t baked or that has jam on top to be the abomination, as well as a total waste of calories.

    Meh.

    Baked cheesecake is OK. But I'd prefer something more like this. Although I'm not sure any commercially available US cream is dense enough to make it set properly.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    Yes I know I am qualified as a pastry chef so may be a little biased, but so many places think about their savoury food and desserts are an after thought. Badly made or cheaply bought in. A proper dessert finishes a meal off perfectly, even a well made bought in one. Restaurants charge a high price for what is often second rate.
    I am not expecting casual dining places to have a pastry chef or small local restaurants either just give it some thought.
    It is simple. Sugar is cheap so is substituted for better ingredients and most people are satisfied with the added sugar. Add in some cheap fat and you've got most of the market satiated.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Perhaps we can arrange a trade. Cheesecake here is, in my experience, always assumed to be baked, unless it’s the boxed dreck called “no-bake cheesecake.” I would consider anything called a cheesecake that isn’t baked or that has jam on top to be the abomination, as well as a total waste of calories.

    Meh.

    Baked cheesecake is OK. But I'd prefer something more like this.
    See that would get a “meh” from me, compared to baked cheesecake or perhaps a proper key lime pie (which it seems closer to—I wouldn’t consider it a cheesecake).

    Chacun à son goût—each to his taste.

  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    A good European cheesecake (biscuits (cookies) cream cheese whisked with double (heavy) cream and sugar) is a classic. Baked Cheesecake is more American, particularly New York
  • Hugal wrote: »
    A good European cheesecake (biscuits (cookies) cream cheese whisked with double (heavy) cream and sugar) is a classic. Baked Cheesecake is more American, particularly New York
    Or Chicago. As with pizza, there is New York-style cheesecake and Chicago-style cheesecake.
  • I am not much on desserts (preferring cheeses and a large port), but Miss Amanda put me in mind of a diner I visited in Trout Run, PA. Two friends of mine and I were driving back to Toronto from the Outer Banks (over two days), and we stopped for dinner. It was October, a chilly evening. I had the "minced steak" with mushroom gravy and mashed potatoes (very good), and for dessert the very best pumpkin pie I have ever had, perhaps ever will. The seductive, coy amount of nutmeg, the perfect texture. American diner food at its best is very difficult to beat. That was 30 years ago.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Hugal wrote: »
    [So long as the dessert cart is at the correct temperature.

    In the very best restaurants, the dessert cart holds display samples only. Once you make your selection, a fresh dessert is brought out from the kitchen.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    A good European cheesecake (biscuits (cookies) cream cheese whisked with double (heavy) cream and sugar) is a classic. Baked Cheesecake is more American, particularly New York
    Or Chicago. As with pizza, there is New York-style cheesecake and Chicago-style cheesecake.

    And, as with pizza, the New York style is the good one...
  • The reason dessserts are so awful is surely because of the sand.
  • My wife and I embarked upon a campaign to save the restaurants of central Victoria during the first stage 3 lockdown. We did such a good job that my blood sugars went through the roof!
  • tclune wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    A good European cheesecake (biscuits (cookies) cream cheese whisked with double (heavy) cream and sugar) is a classic. Baked Cheesecake is more American, particularly New York
    Or Chicago. As with pizza, there is New York-style cheesecake and Chicago-style cheesecake.

    And, as with pizza, the New York style is the good one...
    I’d agree on cheesecake. But as to pizza, I like them both.

  • I like a nice crème brûlée, but am partial for sickly sweet things. I like dessert but am often disappointed by either "big is best" (far too much) or "you'll need a microscope to see this portion".

    In Zahlé, Lebanon, I ordered big on baklava and znoud el-sit (fried dough surrounding cream and covered with sugar syrup, flavoured with orange or similar); bonus fact it translates as lady's upper arms -- a reference to the shape. Once I managed them down a bowl of fruit that could sit atop the head of at least 3 Carmen Mirandas was promptly placed in front of me. I bravely scoffed several fruits before giving up.

    I'm not big on cheese, but fruit is always a nice finisher.
  • Oh dear. I should've waited before posting.

    Not strictly dessert, but I have just been served the worst Belgian hot chocolate ever. I know it's thicker than the usual hot chocolate -- it's why I like it. But I needed to eat, yes eat, it with a spoon. It moved in lumps.

    Looking at the board I see it is advertised as "very thick". Consider me educated. Or very thick for not knowing.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    The derivation of Spotted Dick is thus.
    A dick is an old English (or very old) word for a log one may find on the floor in a forest or similar. Spotted Dick pudding looks like a log with spots in it.
    I am sure I don’t have to explain the slang use for a male member

    50 or more years ago, a group had been at the pub and then moved on to dinner, where Spotted Dick was on the menu. I innocently enough said that I'd never had a Spotted Dick. Another at the table said that once you'd had them coffee coloured, you'd not want them any other way.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    edited September 2020
    Hugal wrote: »
    A good European cheesecake (biscuits (cookies) cream cheese whisked with double (heavy) cream and sugar) is a classic. Baked Cheesecake is more American, particularly New York
    The very first cheesecake I made, probably over forty years ago, was a Yorkshire cheesecake, also called a curd tart - though I’ve only seen that name more recently. It was a baked cheesecake, and it’s a delicious recipe.

    According to Wikipedia, the uncooked cheesecake
    made with uncooked cream-cheese on a crumbled-cookie or graham cracker base… was invented in the United States.
    It cites a 2002 article from Gastronomica in support.
  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Oh, I love curd tart, I used to make it a lot as I occasionally make cheese so am used to making my own curds.
    (Apologies, nothing hellish about curd tart)
  • My favourites include pavlova, lemon tart, apple &raspberry crumble or ultimately fresh fruit such as strawberries or cherries. I'm not an eater of cheesecake (too sickly) or chocolate desserts (too rich)
  • At an upscale restaurant where they wheel the dessert cart to your table and, again, you can choose what looks good.
    Perhaps there's a Pond difference here, but I haven't seen a dessert trolley in a British restaurant for years!

    There's a pub/restaurant near me that has one, but (as is Right and Proper) it contains only cheese. When you order the cheeseboard they wheel it over to your table and you tell the server which six cheeses (of the many more available) you'd like to have.

    And they serve the stilton with a spoon. Just awesome.

    On sweet desserts, my chief complaint is that so few places offer a decent crumble. But then I like chocolate so I can usually get a decent-sized* bit of cake.

    .

    *= as I commented at a WightMeet lo those many years ago, Death by Chocolate is a bit much, but GBH by Chocolate is about right.
  • Our two favourite places to eat out are both places where I make sure I leave room for dessert. One is an independent French place in town that does lovely creme brulé, and a good cheese selection, but I tend to go for something sweet unless we have had a takeaway from there.

    The other is a local pub which also does a great vegetarian selection. We had lunch in their garden on Sunday (the one space where they allow dogs) and I had a gorgeous chocolate mousse, which I ended up sharing with the Dragonlets.

    Both are on the very short list of places I will consider patronising in the current climate as the venue and my fellow diners are taking precautions seriously.

    Fruit salad is a bit of a minefield for me owing to an allergy to Kiwi!
  • Deserts desserts dessserts puddings are often awful simply because they are not CHEESE.

    @Marvin the Martian's local place, serving Stilton with a spoon, is obviously in a place where the veil between Heaven and Earth is very thin indeed..,
  • Sometimes a couple doesn't want a whole meal, just their just desserts.
    .
    Getting coat.
  • Deserts desserts dessserts puddings are often awful simply because they are not CHEESE.

    @Marvin the Martian's local place, serving Stilton with a spoon, is obviously in a place where the veil between Heaven and Earth is very thin indeed..,

    It's called Clent. And with the beauty of the surrounding hills, you may just be right...
  • There's a pub/restaurant near me that has one, but (as is Right and Proper) it contains only cheese. When you order the cheeseboard they wheel it over to your table and you tell the server which six cheeses (of the many more available) you'd like to have.
    Now, that's Quite a Different Matter to a mere dessert trolley. The best cheese trolley I saw was at the Great House in Lavenham - mostly French, as befitted the owner. Generally I avoid cheese at restaurants as I can have it better at home ... usually!

  • LeafLeaf Shipmate
    Hugal wrote: »
    A proper dessert finishes a meal off perfectly

    Agreed, but as we see from this thread, what constitutes "proper dessert" varies widely.

    As Boomers age and watch their budgets, waistlines, and blood sugars levels more closely, I expect that segment of the restaurant clientele will pay less and less attention to desserts. Sorry Hugal. Even a celebrity pastry chef like Amaury Guichon https://youtube.com/watch?v=cUBstqX2vp8 is not going to have an easy time of it. (When I was looking up the video, Google suggested flights to Las Vegas, which is where Guichon is working. All I would need is one customs agent to agree that that constitutes essential travel...)

    On the other hand, there is a bit of a cultural moment right now - and an opportunity for pastry chefs! - due to The Great British Bake-Off. I guess the commercial model of the restaurant industry doesn't really allow for easy licensing of trademarks. If a restaurant association negotiated successfully for the rights to purchase and sell "Mary Berry's X" or "Paul Hollywood's Y" desserts, you might see an increase in interest and sales. I think that opportunity is like catching lightning in a bottle.

  • I recently was disappointed by a dessert - it had been an excellent meal, and I chose a lemon pavlova for dessert. Expecting a soft marshmallowy meringue, some cream and lots of fruity goodness, I got a hard (when I cut it with my spoon shards flew everywhere) piece of meringue, a large amount of whipped cream, and three tiny slices of lemon. When I mentioned my disappointment to the chef, he sort of just shrugged, as if to say "well, there you go..." meh.
  • I have always loved the puddings my mother made - but try getting them anywhere. The much-travelled Bill Bryson has some pertinent observations about our puddings. He was invariably disappointed with your average restaurant 'afters' when so much trouble had been taken with the posh first course.
    My frustration own is such that I have contemplated, if called upon to self isolate, preferably in a remote place, of devoting my life to prayer and only eating puddings. I shall join the Dessert Fathers.
  • What puddings did your mother make ?
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    There's a tiny Italian restaurant in town where the tables are too close together for a dessert cart, so the waiter comes around with a dessert tray. I don't know where they buy their desserts, and I don't want to know - they're extraordinarily good, and I shouldn't/daren't have access to them in some other way. Whoever is making them doesn't overdo the sugar - rare in the US.
  • I'm finding increasingly that shop brought desserts are something to behold, especially if you go for the "luxury" range the supermarket might be marketing. Those puds, even if they are simple ones I should be able to make myself - they tend to put a bit of a je ne sais quoi into an apple crumble which makes my soul soar.

    But with restaurants - I do prefer to give them a miss. It's long been a disappointment for mine, but I live in hope and always hope for something wonderful in the dessert.

    The worst of the restaurant ones are when there is a very dated picture, that is covered in a plastic coating of sorts, lurid colours, and exotic looking, and you know you are going to get something that is oozing of spray cream.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Spray cream is an insult to cows. :anguished:
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    But a good way to get New Zealand cream into the U.K. market.
  • Having no room for dessert is a concept I don't understand. I decide on the dessert I want and then choose the main course that will leave room for it.

    I've seldom met a dessert I didn't like, but was ill on a crême brûlée years ago and haven't fancied one since.
  • Huia wrote: »
    Spray cream is an insult to cows. :anguished:

    Spray cream is an insult to humanity
  • Huia wrote: »
    Spray cream is an insult to cows. :anguished:

    You don't spray it on the cows, you spray it on the dessert.
  • It's useful in a food fight. As is jello.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Nenya wrote: »
    Having no room for dessert is a concept I don't understand.

    When he was little my nephew was asked how he could be too full to eat more of his dinner but still have room for dessert. His answer: "Dessert pockets."
  • There's a pub/restaurant near me that has one, but (as is Right and Proper) it contains only cheese. When you order the cheeseboard they wheel it over to your table and you tell the server which six cheeses (of the many more available) you'd like to have.
    Now, that's Quite a Different Matter to a mere dessert trolley. The best cheese trolley I saw was at the Great House in Lavenham - mostly French, as befitted the owner. Generally I avoid cheese at restaurants as I can have it better at home ... usually!

    "Cleanest cheese shop in the district ..."
    (and, Licensed for Public Dancing" ... !!!)
  • This is the second page of this thread and there has been no discussion of Proper Dessert: to wit, pie. Is Outrage!

    Coconut Creme Pie or Apple Pie by preference, though lemon meringue is fine. I can live without the a la mode.
  • This is the second page of this thread and there has been no discussion of Proper Dessert: to wit, pie. Is Outrage!

    Coconut Creme Pie or Apple Pie by preference, though lemon meringue is fine. I can live without the a la mode.

    "French Silk" ... Blueberry ... Pecan ... Pumpkin ... Banana Creme ...
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Nenya wrote: »
    Having no room for dessert is a concept I don't understand.

    When he was little my nephew was asked how he could be too full to eat more of his dinner but still have room for dessert. His answer: "Dessert pockets."

    There is very old VHS footage of me claiming to have room in my toes. Of course, the existence of the "pudding stomach" is well-attested anecdotally.
  • Is there such a thing as VHS footage that isn't very old?

    Though, I think my dad did record footage on Betamax ...
  • Leaf wrote: »
    Hugal wrote: »
    A proper dessert finishes a meal off perfectly

    Agreed, but as we see from this thread, what constitutes "proper dessert" varies widely.

    As Boomers age and watch their budgets, waistlines, and blood sugars levels more closely, I expect that segment of the restaurant clientele will pay less and less attention to desserts.

    I dunno, the sort of establishments I frequent seem to specialise in 'Let's max out on everything your parents told you not to eat too much of, mash it together in a bowl, and call it a sundae'. Concerns for waistlines and blood sugar levels do not seem to be high on the agenda ...
  • There is, of course, the wonderful "Eton Mess", which I was first (and best)n served in the house of a retired Labour MP!

    (I happen to think we're stuck in one now, but let's not drag politics into this. Ooops ...)
  • What puddings did your mother make ?

    You ask what puddings my mother made. I remember fondly her lemon meringue pie. No pre-prepared packets for her ; everything - pastry, sauce, soft topping, was made from scratch. She made was her light and fluffy syrup sponge to die for. Blood sugar was in those days thought to be good for you.

    And then there was her jam roly-poly, made with suet when suet was innocent of its cholesterol boosting associations and didn't come with a health warning. and served with custard that turned your tongue yellow. It was so long ago. A happy, prelapsarian time.

    Now in my dotage, when eating out, I might toy with sorbet (not one, I hope has been bought in bulk), but my baked cheesecake days are over. Truly, visits to eateries, even posh ones, and life itself, tend to be a dessert desert.


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