Irksome solecisms

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  • Ricardus wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    "Try and" instead of "Try to".

    For example, "I need you to try and find the keys."

    Taken literally, this would mean that the speaker wants me to try to do some unspecified thing. After which, he wants me to find the keys.

    Though I assume this one came into prominence because a statement like "I want you to try to find the keys" would sound a little grating on the ears.

    According to Merriam-Webster (source), 'try and' may be older than 'try to'.

    The structure itself is a form of hendiadys.

    Well, thanks for that.

  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    I think there's a pond difference here, but "different to" instead of "different from." Not to mention the abomination "different than" vs. "different from."
  • I've also noticed (in Britain) the word "against" being increasingly dropped after "protest" - such as in "Students were protesting against cuts in their grants".
  • rhubarb wrote: »
    Euphemisms for death. I dislike passed away, passed, passed over, gone fishing, gone away, crossed over, left home, promoted to glory, etc etc. There are many more which would fill a book.

    Reminds me of a certain Python sketch. Repeat solemnly after me in your best JC* accent ...
    "
    'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!"

    *John Cleese, not the other JC chap
  • 'He is appealing the decision.' A decision, judgment, verdict or sentence is appealed against. I speak as an ex-lawyer. Likewise 'taking the stand', for 'giving evidence', when speaking of proceedings in a UK court.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    'He is appealing the decision.' A decision, judgment, verdict or sentence is appealed against. I speak as an ex-lawyer.
    You speak as an ex-lawyer who practiced somewhere other than where I practice. :wink:

    Decisions in the US are appealed, or an appeal is taken. I’ve never heard anyone—lawyer, judge or other—say “appealed against” here. I think it would prompt very quizzical looks.

  • “My bad” instead of “my fault”.
    If “the Old Rugged Cross” or “Abide with me” is sung at my funeral, I’ve promised my family I’ll come back to haunt them.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    edited September 2020
    "He's like:" instead of "he said:".
  • "Reticent" for "hesitant".

    "Advocate [verb] for".
  • 'Christian' for a collection of racist homophobic bigots.

    Are all racist homophobic bigots christians ?
  • Probably not, but a lot of racist homophobic bigots do indeed call themselves Christians...

    ...which I suspect was @Leorning Cniht's point.
  • "There were 15 attendees at the meeting". Surely these are "attenders"?
  • Ah yes, and then there is mentee.

    Surely a "telemachus"
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    "There were 15 attendees at the meeting". Surely these are "attenders"?
    We had a discussion on attenders/attendees in another thread recently. I’d never heard or read “attenders” until that thread. In the US, it’s attendees. “Attenders” sounds very odd to my ears. The Online Etymology Dictionary suggests that “attendee” replaced the older “attender” and “attendant” because the latter “had overtones of ‘one who waits upon.’”

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Yes, I got confused between attenders and attendees on that very thread IIRC.
    :confused:
  • Yes, I got confused between attenders and attendees on that very thread IIRC.
    :confused:

    The first invitation in The Russian Orthodox Divine Liturgy is "Let us attend!"
  • Ah - so if I obey that invitation, I become an attender, yes?

    And by just being physically present at the service, I am an attendee, yes?
    :wink:

    (Apologies for tangent)
    :disappointed:
  • "One-month anniversary"; "three-week anniversary" and worst of all "five-year anniversary".
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Not in my book. Surely (as I said in that earlier thread) the "-ee" ending must mean that someone who attends (in any sense) is an attender, while an attendee is someone who is attended upon.

    Of course, someone who attends a gathering may not attend to what is being said because they are being attended upon by (distracting) attendants!
  • With regard to death, whenever I'm told by someone that they have "lost" someone, I immediately have a mental image of the person in question pushing a trolley round the aisles of a large crowded supermarket in search of the person I am talking to. Perhaps, it is a glimpse of Purgatory.
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    'Of' instead of 'have' e.g. 'He could of done it differently...'
    :grimace:

    I cane across that construction in one of Jane Austen's novels. It's been a long time, and I don't remember which.

  • edited September 2020
    "There were 15 attendees at the meeting". Surely these are "attenders"?

    If it were a Quaker Meeting there might be 15 Attenders and 20 Members present. In our Tabular Statement, however, we only include regular Attenders. Regardless of classification we still address each other as Friend, even if the person in question isn't technically a "Friend". A few years ago the term "Ffriends" gained some traction. Fortunately, it soon lost that traction.
  • Yes, I got confused between attenders and attendees on that very thread IIRC.
    :confused:

    The first invitation in The Russian Orthodox Divine Liturgy is "Let us attend!"

    Well, in one English translation of it. At our church (admittedly Greek) the priest says "Let us pay attention!"
  • "I feel you" for "I agree" or "I empathize with you."
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Yes, I got confused between attenders and attendees on that very thread IIRC.
    :confused:

    The first invitation in The Russian Orthodox Divine Liturgy is "Let us attend!"

    Well, in one English translation of it. At our church (admittedly Greek) the priest says "Let us pay attention!"

    Yes, that's what it means!
  • I think there's a pond difference here, but "different to" instead of "different from." Not to mention the abomination "different than" vs. "different from."

    Here, either "different to" and "different from" are both common and acceptable. "Different than", wrong though it be, is probably the most common of the three.
  • Not a solecism, but something that always confuses me is "fighting with". I can fight with someone against a common enemy; or, I can fight with someone, contending against that person. The confusion goes back to Old English wið, and I'm certain I'll die in the same state of confusion.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Yes, I got confused between attenders and attendees on that very thread IIRC.
    :confused:

    The first invitation in The Russian Orthodox Divine Liturgy is "Let us attend!"

    Well, in one English translation of it. At our church (admittedly Greek) the priest says "Let us pay attention!"

    Yes, that's what it means!

    I have always thought they should say, "SHUT UP AND LISTEN!"
  • Moo wrote: »
    'Of' instead of 'have' e.g. 'He could of done it differently...'
    :grimace:

    I cane across that construction in one of Jane Austen's novels. It's been a long time, and I don't remember which.

    I seem to recall reading that Austen's grammar was tidied up enormously before publication. Might be that some slipped through the net.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    "I feel you" for "I agree" or "I empathize with you."
    I've never heard the first of those. It's seriously yuk. Here 'feel' used like that as a transitive verb would mean something quite different and unsuitable for a Sunday.

  • Does anyone else remember the exchange in the BBC radio show 'Round the Horne' (a rich source of double-entendres, for transatlantic shipmates): 'I feel for you, Charles.' 'I feel you feeling for me, Cynthia.'
  • Radio 4Ex have recently repeated the 'feeling you' dialogues!

    Time for my bugbear. 'Bought' instead of 'brought'.

    'I bought my harp to the party but nobody asked me to play'. No, you brought your harp to the party. 'He bought his sister along'. No, he brought his sister along. 'I bought this bottle with me.' No, you brought that bottle with you.

    I hear it all the time, everywhere by nearly everybody. I don't know why it drives me nuts. But it does. However, I'm not great with grammar myself, and don't know some of the rules and solecisms others are referring to above, so I just keep quiet, in case I get pulled up.
  • Double-post apologies. Just a word on funereal mutterings.

    It is true that referring to someone 'losing' a loved one can sound more like what happens to umbrellas in railway stations than our nearest and dearest. But when someone you love dies it is undoubtedly a serious loss. 'Loss', 'losing' etc are tricky English many-meaning words. My father's death is and ever will be one of the greatest losses in my life. But I promise you he's not been left forgotten or misplaced at the back of a cupboard somewhere waiting to be found!
  • (I have occasional dreams like that - my grandparents (both dead by about 1980) turning up in a little house somewhere and me having not known they were there all this time.)

    I don't know if it's a solecism, but 'I'm good' pisses me off, even if it follows what may be the equally problematic, but made painless by sheet ubiquity, 'awlrigh?' of my saarfeast yoof.
  • It's not really a solecism, but I am constantly irked by 'Hi there!' as a greeting from strangers on occasions when I would use 'Hallo', 'Good morning', or 'Good afternoon'. This is often followed by 'How are you doing?', equally annoying, especially when used by a cold-caller on the telephn.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    It's not really a solecism, but I am constantly irked by 'Hi there!' as a greeting from strangers on occasions when I would use 'Hallo', 'Good morning', or 'Good afternoon'. This is often followed by 'How are you doing?', equally annoying, especially when used by a cold-caller on the telephn.

    In one of the American-written ESL textbooks I used to use, it was explicitly stated that the phrase "How are you?" is not usually meant as an inquiry as to how the other person is feeling.

    Something about seeing that in a semi-official source made me think it's kind of pointless to get worked up about its usage as a meaningless greeting: "Yes, we KNOW it's just an expression, it's even being taught that way to foreigners."

    Personally, when using the query, I usually do try to "stay for an answer", as it were. Doesn't bother me much if other people don't.

  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    stetson wrote: »
    "How are you?" is not usually meant as an inquiry as to how the other person is feeling.

    Nor is "How do you do?" an inquiry into methodology.
  • 'Do what?' is an expression in Essex which exists independently of the question you posit!
  • Anselmina wrote: »
    Double-post apologies. Just a word on funereal mutterings.

    It is true that referring to someone 'losing' a loved one can sound more like what happens to umbrellas in railway stations than our nearest and dearest. But when someone you love dies it is undoubtedly a serious loss. 'Loss', 'losing' etc are tricky English many-meaning words. My father's death is and ever will be one of the greatest losses in my life. But I promise you he's not been left forgotten or misplaced at the back of a cupboard somewhere waiting to be found!
    Not a solecism, but as I've said before on these boards, 'loved one' makes me cringe. We all, I hope, love our 'loved ones' but anyone who is described as such is dead, seriously ill or a very, very long way away. They're never just someone part of our lives in any ordinary way. If a person you know used that phrase to describe a spouse, parent or chid, you'd assume there was some tragedy there somewhere that you hadn't heard about yet.

  • stetson wrote: »
    "How are you?" is not usually meant as an inquiry as to how the other person is feeling.

    Nor is "How do you do?" an inquiry into methodology.

    :killingme:
  • A certain priest of my acquaintance urges us to pray for "the beloved of your heart". What if I don't have one - beloved, that is, not heart.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    cgichard wrote: »
    A certain priest of my acquaintance urges us to pray for "the beloved of your heart". What if I don't have one - beloved, that is, not heart.
    I would generally take that to mean “all whom you love or care about”—“beloved” not in the significant other sense but in the “dearly beloved” sense. My grandmother used to say that this or that person was “much beloved.”

    It does seem a a bit flowery, though.

  • Thanks, Nick. I did take "beloved" as singular, but I see now that it could mean all those who are dear to you. Not sure why it raised my hackles, but probably because of the widespread assumption that everyone has a "significant other".
  • Ewww, you just reminded me of the cringeworthy phrase "the One" (never specified "the one WHAT?"). As in, "I haven't found the One yet." Or, "Then I found the One and my life became a living paradise of cheerful chirping birdies."

    I can't help speculating about whether "the One" is a kind of breakfast cereal, a venereal affliction, or an alien hive mind from Star Trek.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    One pastor always exhorted us to pray for 'loved ones and little ones'. Why were the little ones unloved? Or would they reach loved status at a certain size?

    Also 'travelling mercies' which irresistibly suggested some kind of box on wheels.
  • Orneries under another name?
  • cgichard wrote: »
    A certain priest of my acquaintance urges us to pray for "the beloved of your heart". What if I don't have one - beloved, that is, not heart.

    I have a Beloved Goddaughter. ( I have five godchildren, but I have a major role in the life of only one.)
  • cgichard wrote: »
    Orneries under another name?

    Mmm, I hesitate to ask about something that everyone else knows about, and I have been waiting to be able to deduce from context, but what are "orneries", please?
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Penny S wrote: »
    cgichard wrote: »
    Orneries under another name?

    Mmm, I hesitate to ask about something that everyone else knows about, and I have been waiting to be able to deduce from context, but what are "orneries", please?

    Spinoff from the Cancer Sucks thread AIR. There was something about being ornery which somehow morphed into flights of orneries, a sort of protective bird something between an eagle and a swallow I fancy (though you can fancy them as you please).
  • MiliMili Shipmate
    This is a spelling error rather than grammar, but I find it really annoying when people use hunny or hun as an endearment in place of honey, however I think that is becoming the more common spelling. I wouldn't call a friend honey either. A lot of people use it when they are trying to soften a social media post that disagrees with what their friend has posted or to try to sound sympathetic, but it usually comes off as patronising or insincere.
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