Irksome solecisms

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  • Pooh Bear knows what 'hunny' is, sticky stuff kept in jars. 'Hinny' of course, is good Scots and Geordie English, derived from Norse.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    Anselmina wrote: »
    Double-post apologies. Just a word on funereal mutterings.

    It is true that referring to someone 'losing' a loved one can sound more like what happens to umbrellas in railway stations than our nearest and dearest. But when someone you love dies it is undoubtedly a serious loss. 'Loss', 'losing' etc are tricky English many-meaning words. My father's death is and ever will be one of the greatest losses in my life. But I promise you he's not been left forgotten or misplaced at the back of a cupboard somewhere waiting to be found!
    Not a solecism, but as I've said before on these boards, 'loved one' makes me cringe. We all, I hope, love our 'loved ones' but anyone who is described as such is dead, seriously ill or a very, very long way away. They're never just someone part of our lives in any ordinary way. If a person you know used that phrase to describe a spouse, parent or chid, you'd assume there was some tragedy there somewhere that you hadn't heard about yet.

    You see, I do refer to my loved ones as 'loved ones'! It covers family and friends. To me there's nothing wrong with saying: 'this lockdown business is tough, being apart from loved ones stuck in another country; or unable to meet with our loved ones in the usual way'. Until they were given permission to travel again, I was separated from my 'loved ones' and prayers were said about 'loved ones' being isolated from each other etc. I would only assume 'loved one' meant tragedy if the context of the sentence in which the phrase was used implied that. But I agree it's a phrase that is very useful for describing the generality of the departed, sick or dying, when praying for people who may or may not be family or friends or just acquaintances, and we want to be polite or sensitive.
  • Firenze wrote: »

    Also 'travelling mercies' which irresistibly suggested some kind of box on wheels.

    'Travelling mercies' was a common Sally Army shorthand, when I hung out with them 30 years ago. If the wheels had a stereo, it was playing brass band music.

    As regards 'the One' - next time someone mentions they hope they've found him/her, you can think 'umm hmm, I bet (s)he's a right One...'

  • Thank you.
  • I can't help speculating about whether "the One" is a kind of breakfast cereal, a venereal affliction, or an alien hive mind from Star Trek.
    No, anyone who’s read sufficient Tolkien, particularly Ainulindalë, knows: “There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aight else was made.”

    :wink:

  • And the Children of Ilúvatar are Elves and Men.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    You can see how that would annoy the Dwarves though. "Oh Glorfindel dahling you know they weren't even created directly by Iluvatar, just by Aule of course, yes yes shocking really. I must say some of their metalwork is very clever but terribly commercial when all's said and done...."
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    You can see how that would annoy the Dwarves though. "Oh Glorfindel dahling you know they weren't even created directly by Iluvatar, just by Aule of course, yes yes shocking really. I must say some of their metalwork is very clever but terribly commercial when all's said and done...."

    Interesting thought - although Tolkien would doubtless argue that adopted children have no lesser status. As a Catholic he would see he adopted Son of God status as vital to his identity.

    Elves are going to be a right royal patronising PitA anyway "not a bad jingle really, Mr Beethoven, considering you're not fifty yet so barely out of Kindergarten! If only you had a couple of centuries to work on that theme, rather like I said to that Mr Purcell - gosh, was it really? Feels like last week..."
  • One that really bugs me is "slither" for "sliver"

    "I'll just have a slither of cake" - is the cake exceptionally slimy so it can slide along the ground itself?! It really gets me annoyed for some reason!

    Mr D gets fed up with me shouting corrections at the TV. It comes of being an English teacher, I tell him, and he snorts derisively.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Firenze wrote: »
    Why were the little ones unloved?

    Let me count the ways.
  • Adding 'at' to the end of a sentence. "Where do you live at?" "Where's it at?" This grammar sin makes me grind my teeth.
  • rhubarb wrote: »
    Euphemisms for death. I dislike passed away, passed, passed over, gone fishing, gone away, crossed over, left home, promoted to glory, etc etc. There are many more which would fill a book.
    Then there are the comic notices such as "whenever I gaze into a paddock and see an Angus cow your memory will not fade"
    When I die, just say so plainly and don't sing Amazing Grace at my funeral or I will haunt everyone forever.

    I have taken to using "kicked the bucket". I have to be sensitive where I employ that, of course, but it's a reaction to the gut-spasming awfulness of the terms you've already listed. People who know me now but didn't know me when I was growing up always seem a bit flummoxed at my casual use of the phrase. "My dad kicked the bucket four years before my mother did. He died when I was eight years old..." It's true. He died when I was eight and my mom died kicked the bucket four years later. Personally, I think both of them might get a...KICK out of me saying that.

    I'll get my bucket now...
  • The5thMary wrote: »
    Adding 'at' to the end of a sentence. "Where do you live at?" "Where's it at?" This grammar sin makes me grind my teeth.

    Why do you say that for?
  • The5thMary wrote: »
    Adding 'at' to the end of a sentence. "Where do you live at?" "Where's it at?" This grammar sin makes me grind my teeth.
    Like the use of double negatives, the use of “at” in that way long predates the codification of the rules of “standard“ English grammar. I could be remembering wrong, but I believe that in some dialects of English, “where do you live?” and “where do you live at” don’t necessarily mean quite the same thing.

  • Mili wrote: »
    This is a spelling error rather than grammar, but I find it really annoying when people use hunny or hun as an endearment in place of honey, however I think that is becoming the more common spelling. I wouldn't call a friend honey either. A lot of people use it when they are trying to soften a social media post that disagrees with what their friend has posted or to try to sound sympathetic, but it usually comes off as patronising or insincere.

    I was going to write a post saying what's the fuss about as everything was fine by me.

    But yes, this grates totally - as you say patronising AND insincere though I know on a least one or two occasions it really was neither.

    I was close enough to one of the guys to say "Don't you EVER call me hun again", he was quite scared which of course I liked :joy:

    It's interesting (grammar aside) what winds us all up.
  • Apologies in advance to any kiwis, but I lived in New Zealand for quite a few years.

    The vowel-mangling I could handle - "fush n chups" and so on.

    But the pronunciation of women as "wum-en" instead of "wim-in" was a teeth grinder.

    As I think about it, so was saying "pro-noun-ciation" instead of "pro-nun-ciation"
  • Ah yes, and then there is mentee.

    Surely a "telemachus"

    And Minties
  • "Ask" as a noun meaning a request, is unspeakable.

    "Iconic" when the speaker merely means "characteristic". This one is reaching plague proportions. I hope someone is working on a vaccine for it.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    "Ask" as a noun meaning a request, is unspeakable.

    I feel the same way about "text" as a verb.
  • I find the expression "Let's see if we can't (eg go to Melbourne)" very peculiar as the speaker means "let's see if we can" I'm not sure why this occurs so often. It seems bizarre.
  • Also: "It is impossible to under-estimate the effect that this will have" - when what is meant is the exact opposite.
  • Re euphemisms for death - our kirkyard was left untended in the early months of lockdown, and produced lovely patches of wild flowers where normally all is neatly trimmed grass. To my surprise, the daisies corresponded to the graves themselves. Based on my observations of one cemetery "pushing up daisies" isn't whimsical, but observational.

    Our local newspaper omits verbs from its death announcements. They read "Peacefully at X on the Yth of the month, A.B, beloved spouse of C.D." I have told my family that I will come back and haunt them if my death announcement is ungrammatical. They have promised me a verb, but refuse to say which verb they intend to use, although I think "carked" is the current front runner.
  • "Appraised" for "apprised". Aaaaargh. Also "decimate" used incorrectly.
  • The other day I saw a photo in a mtravel magazine,, with a caption saying it was of 'one of the castles decimated by Cromwell'.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    The other day I saw a photo in a mtravel magazine,, with a caption saying it was of 'one of the castles decimated by Cromwell'.

    AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHH
  • "He's like:" instead of "he said:".

    "He goes" instead of "He said". Mix your peeve and my peeve for a truly awful mashup: "And then, he's like, "It's not my fault you can't speak English properly!" and then I go, "Well, it's not my fault, either! I was raised by a pack of wolves."
  • My next door neighbor keeps calling me "hun", even though I have asked her repeatedly to stop. She just laughs. She texts me quite a bit and always spells it "hun".
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    The other day I saw a photo in a mtravel magazine,, with a caption saying it was of 'one of the castles decimated by Cromwell'.

    Well, that's a slight if ever there was one!
  • mousethief wrote: »
    "I feel you" for "I agree" or "I empathize with you."

    Yes, that is quite loathsome. I had someone say that to me recently. I glared at him and snarled, "Oh, really?! I'll give you a fat lip if you try to feel me!" Idiot.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    The other day I saw a photo in a mtravel magazine,, with a caption saying it was of 'one of the castles decimated by Cromwell'.

    Did he take out every tenth stone?
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    The5thMary wrote: »
    "He's like:" instead of "he said:".

    "He goes" instead of "He said". Mix your peeve and my peeve for a truly awful mashup: "And then, he's like, "It's not my fault you can't speak English properly!" and then I go, "Well, it's not my fault, either! I was raised by a pack of wolves."

    It's certainly enough to make you howl at the moon.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    The5thMary wrote: »
    My next door neighbor keeps calling me "hun", even though I have asked her repeatedly to stop. She just laughs. She texts me quite a bit and always spells it "hun".

    Perhaps she thinks you're a descendant of Attila the . . . oh, well.
  • MiliMili Shipmate
    I don't think people who use 'hun' as a term or endearment and people who know about the Huns are the same people.

    The he/she goes.. always reminds me of an '80s T.V. character in Australia, Kylie Mole, portrayed by Mary Anne Fahey. If you hate he/she goes you better not watch the clip! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lsWA3vIFv8

    There was even a novelty song called 'I go, I go', but I won't torture everyone with that!
  • A student once wrote me an essay, which included, "X was decimated by the event". She wasn't amused when I pointed out that X would have lost 10% of his body if this were correct.
  • This thread is like a Monty Python sketch of old fogies, tutting over bits of language they don't like. Good grief, I'm back in the 50s, when some people thought speech doesn't change, or shouldn't . Still, it provides a laaf.
  • A student once wrote me an essay, which included, "X was decimated by the event". She wasn't amused when I pointed out that X would have lost 10% of his body if this were correct.

    Only if you're speaking Latin. Etymology does not dictate meaning. The English word Decimate does not mean what its Latin origin meant.
  • 'Decimated' still doesn't mean damage or destroy.

    Another one thar annoys me: 'Convince' for 'persuade'. 'He convinced her to change her mind'. Increasingly common.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    A student once wrote me an essay, which included, "X was decimated by the event". She wasn't amused when I pointed out that X would have lost 10% of his body if this were correct.

    Only if you're speaking Latin. Etymology does not dictate meaning. The English word Decimate does not mean what its Latin origin meant.

    Hurrah. The etymological fallacy lives!
  • Oh! I have one! Misuse of "refute" to mean "deny"! As in "President Trump refuted the idea that he had ever said such a thing"!

    Not only annoying but dangerous, that one.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Language can't communicate if those who use it can't agree on what the words mean. What the Romans said they meant is good enough for me.
  • Language can't communicate if those who use it can't agree on what the words mean. What the Romans said they meant is good enough for me.

    Srsly?
  • Language can't communicate if those who use it can't agree on what the words mean. What the Romans said they meant is good enough for me.

    So if you say "vagina" you mean "scabbard"?
  • And "scruple" means a pebble? There must be some wild conversations with Latin meanings.
  • Language can't communicate if those who use it can't agree on what the words mean. What the Romans said they meant is good enough for me.

    I thought that a sociolinguistic community can be described in terms of Venn diagrams, whereby we share varying amounts of speech and language, but also have amounts not in common. See the thread on English and American English.
  • One could put a strong objection in to this web debate space being referred to as a Forum since it is clearly not a town square.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    I'll allow as how Latin words can expand in meaning as they migrate into other languages, and how anatomical parts can be named with Latin words suggesting what the parts look like, but I feel differently about words that people confuse with words that sound similar but mean something different.
  • Something is not "traditional" if it has happened twice.
    "First annual <whatever>"
    And stop saying there's a "silver lining" when something rotten has happened, unless you're going to line my wallet with silver. And don't "reach out" to tell me about it, just talk to me.
    KarlLB wrote: »
    One could put a strong objection in to this web debate space being referred to as a Forum since it is clearly not a town square.

    I'm sure we can come up with a list of people to feed to lions.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    One could put a strong objection in to this web debate space being referred to as a Forum since it is clearly not a town square.
    As opposed to a set square, perhaps?

  • Something is not "traditional" if it has happened twice.

    Our church does that all the time, and I hate it too. Particularly since it seems to me as though "traditional" is used to whitewash the past. If we did A for 40 years, then changed to doing B for two years, then calling "B" traditional seems rather sinister.
  • I'll allow as how Latin words can expand in meaning as they migrate into other languages, and how anatomical parts can be named with Latin words suggesting what the parts look like, but I feel differently about words that people confuse with words that sound similar but mean something different.

    I think many words, not just Latin, can expand or contract in meaning. This is part of language change. See for example, gay. Pedantry and snobbery also play a part, who knew.
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