Why are dessserts so often awful?

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  • After the 'Norwegian omlette' I had at lunch I would agree.
  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    If people in general wanted high quality desserts, there wouldn't be so many mediocre and crap ones.
    And how, do you suppose, they would bring that change about?
  • Oh, boy. Mousethief has probably started a wee fight...over desserts! I am getting my snacks and diet Mountain Dew ready to "watch" this drama play out! Is Outrage? 🤣
  • Meringue is Satan's snot. Angel food cake is a bathroom sponge soaked in old shower water and then dried. Tapioca pudding is Satan's...never mind. My mother could and did make delicious cakes, pies, cookies, puddings, etc. However, when she had had too much to drink...delicious confections had a larger chance of being horrible and inedible. Blackberry pie with three times the amount of sugar required. BOILED cake frosting that looked like cat vomit, etc.

    I hope that my mother is with Jesus now and is cured of her alcoholism...and that she never tries to force me to eat tapioca pudding again...
  • The5thMary wrote: »
    Meringue is Satan's snot. Angel food cake is a bathroom sponge soaked in old shower water and then dried. Tapioca pudding is Satan's...never mind. My mother could and did make delicious cakes, pies, cookies, puddings, etc. However, when she had had too much to drink...delicious confections had a larger chance of being horrible and inedible. Blackberry pie with three times the amount of sugar required. BOILED cake frosting that looked like cat vomit, etc.

    I hope that my mother is with Jesus now and is cured of her alcoholism...and that she never tries to force me to eat tapioca pudding again...

    And you accuse ME of trying to start a fight?
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    The5thMary wrote: »
    Meringue is Satan's snot. Angel food cake is a bathroom sponge soaked in old shower water and then dried. Tapioca pudding is Satan's...never mind.

    I thought guacamole was Satan's snot, but that's for another thread. I pray for the return to health of your palate.
  • Leaf wrote: »
    So is chocolate made with single-plantation cacao beans truly sublime or is it merely marketing bullshit? I don't know, so I wouldn't seek it out nor pay the price. That may only speak to the limitations of my palate.
    tl;dr single origin is different, better is a matter of process and personal taste.

    Single origin chocolates are very much like single-malt scotch, single origin coffee, craft beer, etc. Blended chocolate, even the expensive chocolates, tend to eliminate complexity within the tasting notes. The taste of blended chocolate is more uniform and relatively shallow. This is an oversimplification, because processing affects this as well. But SO chocolates are affected by terroir, just like wine.
    Whether those characteristics are pleasant or not depends on personal taste.
    Again, processing makes a difference. I've had 100% chocolate bars that were smoother than some 80%.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    If people in general wanted high quality desserts, there wouldn't be so many mediocre and crap ones.
    That’s a false dichotomy.
    It can be a little more complex, but the basic concept holds.

  • Hugal wrote: »
    I think one thing both home made and restaurant made have in common is that you can taste the love in them. Yes that is not very Hellish, though it might be for some readers. Let me explain.
    Both the family cook and the restraint pastry chef do it for love, it is certainly not for the money. A mother (father) makes nice things for the family because they love the family. A pastry chef makes great desserts because he/she loves to make great desserts for customers. That effect and joy somehow get into the food. Factory ace desserts no matter how good can not match that.
    Tell me if you disagree

    The "sponges" from Sunshine Desserts WERE *soggy* ... but ...
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    Pecan pie went through a phase of popularity here 25 or so years ago, particularly at coffee shops. That ran for a few years and the pie's not been seen since.
    Pecan pie is a staple of the American South.

    I know it used be, did not realise it still was.
    Firenze wrote: »
    We've just had lunch Out. The dessert was described as 'Pornstar Martini Eton Mess' - actually some sort of diced fruit - possibly mango - in cream and meringue and a smidgen of vodka.

    Can we infer from the "- possibly mango -" that it was as bad as it sounds?
  • Pecan pie is one of those tricky desserts. I have had it up north (well, Northern Virginia, where I was born) and it was dreadful. The "filling" was a clumpy, gelatinous sludge. And then again, I have had it in Georgia and North Carolina, with varying degrees of goodness. It just depends. For my money, there's nothing like homemade butter pecan ice cream!
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Gee D wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    Pecan pie went through a phase of popularity here 25 or so years ago, particularly at coffee shops. That ran for a few years and the pie's not been seen since.
    Pecan pie is a staple of the American South.

    I know it used be, did not realise it still was.
    Firenze wrote: »
    We've just had lunch Out. The dessert was described as 'Pornstar Martini Eton Mess' - actually some sort of diced fruit - possibly mango - in cream and meringue and a smidgen of vodka.

    Can we infer from the "- possibly mango -" that it was as bad as it sounds?

    On the contrary, it was delicious. The fruit dice were orange and dense and could have been macerated dried peach or apricot or, indeed, mango.
  • AmosAmos Shipmate



    Surly you mean an apple turnover


    Surliness is appropriate hell-attitude.

    A Galician empanada doesn't involve folding the dough over a filling: same size and technique as a pie, though not as deep. A little butter dotted over the filling cuts the acidity.

    Most of the colleges in Cambridge claim to have invented crème brûlée. Hence Trinity burnt cream.

    You are entirely right about desserts, puddings, pastry etc made with love, whether it's love of the people who will eat them or love of the art of making them.

  • AmosAmos Shipmate
    Firenze, I've been told that one can still get all the tapioca and sago puddings that one remembers from school in the House of Lords cafeteria.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Amos wrote: »
    Firenze, I've been told that one can still get all the tapioca and sago puddings that one remembers from school in the House of Lords cafeteria.

    Thank God I shall never be raised to the peerage.

  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Amos wrote: »
    Firenze, I've been told that one can still get all the tapioca and sago puddings that one remembers from school in the House of Lords cafeteria.
    You can also get tapioca pudding in my house on a regular basis...I like tapioca.
  • Amos wrote: »
    Firenze, I've been told that one can still get all the tapioca and sago puddings that one remembers from school in the House of Lords cafeteria.

    Much the same thing going on, I imagine, as in those older ex public school boys inclined to pay ladies of negotiable affection to remind them of all the unpleasant aspects of their school days.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Amos wrote: »
    Firenze, I've been told that one can still get all the tapioca and sago puddings that one remembers from school in the House of Lords cafeteria.

    Much the same thing going on, I imagine, as in those older ex public school boys inclined to pay ladies of negotiable affection to remind them of all the unpleasant aspects of their school days.

    Double maths last thing on Friday?
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Firenze wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Amos wrote: »
    Firenze, I've been told that one can still get all the tapioca and sago puddings that one remembers from school in the House of Lords cafeteria.

    Much the same thing going on, I imagine, as in those older ex public school boys inclined to pay ladies of negotiable affection to remind them of all the unpleasant aspects of their school days.

    Double maths last thing on Friday?

    You know exactly what I mean.

    I harbour a belief that a generation is now coming to an age where they are probably paying to be made to sit on the naughty step for a minute per year of age.
  • I think something coming out of this is the difference between the French (and therefore classic pastry/dessert technique) and others. France has standard recipes that define the dish, most others do not. OK there is some regional variation but there are standard recipes.
    Do not call what we get in the UK a croissant in Paris. The croissants was brought to France by a queen (I believe Ann of Austria but I may miss remember). The fats in it were not butter. The French decided it needed a lot of butter. So the original croissant (croissant ordinare) are crescent shape and Croissant au Burre are straight.
    Are the a French too fussy? I would say no but you may disagree
  • My mum held sway in the kitchen and at the dining table at home, so dad ate as he was told.

    But I‘ll not forget the time in a restaurant when dad was asked if he would like custard or cream with his desert. Ignoring the wifely eyebrow, dad chose Both.



    Reminiscing a few years back , one sister claims to remember dad having the nerve to ask for custard , cream, and ice cream with his apple pie. I presume my mother just didn’t talk for the rest of their evening.


  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    Mediocre desserts do exist in France, but the sort of establishment that serves mediocre desserts is probably selling mediocre starters and mains as well.

    As far as traditional French desserts go, the best ones are usually made by someone's Grandma. Even semolina is quite palatable when prepared the French way. (Baked into a sort of cake - and also much improved by going full Pirates of the Caribbean and adding raisins soaked in rum.)
  • Just call it polenta and they will come running
  • I like semolina. With jam. But I wouldn't buy it in a restaurant. Though it occurs to me that a form with the semolina made with cream, set in a slab, topped with strawberry conserve and clotted cream icecream might be acceptable.
  • This is the second page of this thread and there has been no discussion of Proper Dessert: to wit, pie. Is Outrage!

    Coconut Creme Pie or Apple Pie by preference, though lemon meringue is fine. I can live without the a la mode.
    I would love pie for dessert, or even a pie shop where you could just buy some pie and coffee, For some reason I live in an area where not one restaurant seems to offer pie for dessert. As there are only two of us making a pie at home gives us more then we want. I can not understand how pie is not offered when all the restaurants seem to have cake.
  • Gill H wrote: »
    I've heard of couli, no idea what it actually is. Do I need to know?

    A coulis is a strained fruit (usually) puree, used as a thin sauce, typically drizzled over your cheesecake (or whatever).

    I'm always reminded of the (incredibly politically incorrect) Two Fat Ladies on this one. I can't remember which of them it was, but she remarked "Don't, for goodness sake, call it a coulis. A coolie is a Chinese gentleman in a triangular straw hat." And then, realising this might not be well received, she added "And jolly good chaps they are too!"

    I've never been able to hear 'coulis' with a straight face since.

    This puts me in mind of the episode in which the Two Fat Ladies were making coq au vin from some Gurkhas. Jennifer Patterson (who I'm pretty certain was sozzled) explains to the camera, "There's a lot of goodness in an old cock," eliciting a surprised stare from Clarissa while Jennifer seems oblivious to what she just said.

    (For the record, a coq au vin made with an old rooster is a very different experience from one made with a chicken. The former has much better flavour. Jennifer was not wrong.)
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    This is the second page of this thread and there has been no discussion of Proper Dessert: to wit, pie. Is Outrage!

    Coconut Creme Pie or Apple Pie by preference, though lemon meringue is fine. I can live without the a la mode.
    I would love pie for dessert, or even a pie shop where you could just buy some pie and coffee, For some reason I live in an area where not one restaurant seems to offer pie for dessert. As there are only two of us making a pie at home gives us more then we want. I can not understand how pie is not offered when all the restaurants seem to have cake.
    I suspect that some of it, at least, is that it’s easier to make a cake, and a multitude of sins can be covered up with frosting.

    That’s not true of some, of course, and around here one can frequently find a decent slice of Key Lime pie.

    I have been fortunate to know several really outstanding pie makers. A couple were from my my grandparents’ generation, including my paternal grandmother; one was my late mother; another is a gifted pianist and teacher who was kind enough to make one for me a few months ago; and the last of these, blessedly, is my dearest friend, who usually invites to dinner, and always saves me a slice. Crust that melts in your mouth...ahhh.


  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    Crust that melts in your mouth...ahhh.

    Isn't that the truth? As kids, we would turn our noses up at the crusts, thinking them boring, dull, dry - and indeed sometimes they can be but then you come across a crust that is rich and potent and needs nothing else.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    These days, I’m just grateful to discover one with a crust that didn’t come out of a box, or, worse, a freezer container.
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    This is the second page of this thread and there has been no discussion of Proper Dessert: to wit, pie. Is Outrage!

    Coconut Creme Pie or Apple Pie by preference, though lemon meringue is fine. I can live without the a la mode.
    I would love pie for dessert, or even a pie shop where you could just buy some pie and coffee, For some reason I live in an area where not one restaurant seems to offer pie for dessert. As there are only two of us making a pie at home gives us more then we want. I can not understand how pie is not offered when all the restaurants seem to have cake.
    I suspect that some of it, at least, is that it’s easier to make a cake, and a multitude of sins can be covered up with frosting.

    That’s not true of some, of course, and around here one can frequently find a decent slice of Key Lime pie.

    I have been fortunate to know several really outstanding pie makers. A couple were from my my grandparents’ generation, including my paternal grandmother; one was my late mother; another is a gifted pianist and teacher who was kind enough to make one for me a few months ago; and the last of these, blessedly, is my dearest friend, who usually invites to dinner, and always saves me a slice. Crust that melts in your mouth...ahhh.


    " ... sins covered up with frosting ... "
    I LOVE that image ...
    Thank you ...
  • " ... sins covered up with frosting ... "
    I LOVE that image ...
    Thank you ...

    “Though your sins were as scarlet, they shall be white as snow”

    Red velvet cake is in the Bible!
  • Gill H wrote: »
    " ... sins covered up with frosting ... "
    I LOVE that image ...
    Thank you ...

    “Though your sins were as scarlet, they shall be white as snow”

    Red velvet cake is in the Bible!

    .
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    ...
    I suspect that some of it, at least, is that it’s easier to make a cake, and a multitude of sins can be covered up with frosting.
    ...

    I go through cookbooks looking for the words, "Press into the bottom of a 9" pie pan". A lattice top is another way to conceal one's patisserial insufficiencies.

    The most horrid dessert I had in recent memory was a vegan "cheesecake" with the texture of a Slurpee mixed with sand. It was actually melting before our eyes. My coworkers are still bitching about it - we were having a wonderful time celebrating each other's accomplishments and that disgusting monstrosity completely killed the mood in the room.


  • I go through cookbooks looking for the words, "Press into the bottom of a 9" pie pan". A lattice top is another way to conceal one's patisserial insufficiencies.

    The most horrid dessert I had in recent memory was a vegan "cheesecake" with the texture of a Slurpee mixed with sand. It was actually melting before our eyes. My coworkers are still bitching about it - we were having a wonderful time celebrating each other's accomplishments and that disgusting monstrosity completely killed the mood in the room.

    You remind me of the time I horrified a vegan co-worker eating a slice of apple pie by telling her it was probably made with lard.


  • amybo wrote: »
    You remind me of the time I horrified a vegan co-worker eating a slice of apple pie by telling her it was probably made with lard.

    If your cow orker was vegan, butter wouldn't be better, would it? I don't think I'd assume pastry was vegan unless specified, although I'd guess that supermarket packet pies are probably all made with palm oil or something.
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    ...
    I suspect that some of it, at least, is that it’s easier to make a cake, and a multitude of sins can be covered up with frosting.
    ...

    I go through cookbooks looking for the words, "Press into the bottom of a 9" pie pan". A lattice top is another way to conceal one's patisserial insufficiencies.
    Interesting, because I’d say that crust is the thing that most highlights patisserial insufficiency and more crust is an additional spotlight on that.

    The most horrid dessert I had in recent memory was a vegan "cheesecake" with the texture of a Slurpee mixed with sand. It was actually melting before our eyes. My coworkers are still bitching about it - we were having a wonderful time celebrating each other's accomplishments and that disgusting monstrosity completely killed the mood in the room.
    Vegan dessert “recreations” are a mortal sin.
    Make. Something. Different.
  • The reason latticework hides a multitude of sins is because using a whole pie top cover requires you to get it visibly and absolutely right (no holes, patches, seams, bits that had to be stretched to meet the edge, and so forth.) With latticework, the eye is distracted ("oh, how pretty!" and you need less dough as well, which means you can throw away your mistakes (such as strips that are too short or misshapen).
  • I tried making a vegan cheesecake once, trying to tempt a girl hospitalised for anorexia, I think. (She had gone from vegetarian, to vegan, to not eating.) I bought a recipe book. I don't think I gave her the cheesecake. It used tofu, I think, but it came out tasting as if it was made with mashed up baked beans.
    I think vegan books have moved on from pretending to do the other stuff, as vegetarian recipes have.
    I have some curd cheese in the fridge from soured milk. I may try cheesecake from that.
  • amybo wrote: »
    You remind me of the time I horrified a vegan co-worker eating a slice of apple pie by telling her it was probably made with lard.

    If your cow orker was vegan, butter wouldn't be better, would it? I don't think I'd assume pastry was vegan unless specified, although I'd guess that supermarket packet pies are probably all made with palm oil or something.

    I would assume it was vegetarian - made with butter rather than lard. But I would most definately assume there was some dairy in it, unless it was specifically marked.
  • amybo wrote: »
    You remind me of the time I horrified a vegan co-worker eating a slice of apple pie by telling her it was probably made with lard.

    If your cow orker was vegan, butter wouldn't be better, would it? I don't think I'd assume pastry was vegan unless specified, although I'd guess that supermarket packet pies are probably all made with palm oil or something.

    It was from bakery- it had to have lard or butter, both of which are no-no's for militant vegans, and lard got a better reaction.
  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    ...
    I suspect that some of it, at least, is that it’s easier to make a cake, and a multitude of sins can be covered up with frosting.
    ...

    I go through cookbooks looking for the words, "Press into the bottom of a 9" pie pan". A lattice top is another way to conceal one's patisserial insufficiencies.
    Interesting, because I’d say that crust is the thing that most highlights patisserial insufficiency and more crust is an additional spotlight on that.

    The most horrid dessert I had in recent memory was a vegan "cheesecake" with the texture of a Slurpee mixed with sand. It was actually melting before our eyes. My coworkers are still bitching about it - we were having a wonderful time celebrating each other's accomplishments and that disgusting monstrosity completely killed the mood in the room.
    Vegan dessert “recreations” are a mortal sin.
    Make. Something. Different.

    I find it amazingly amazing that commercial food inventors try try try to come up with all*veggie versions of MEAT ... I dunno ... How about some counter developments of animal protein dishes disguised to look and feel and taste like carrots or rutabagas ... ???
  • Why? They'd cost more, not be as good, and the intersection of "eats meat" with "moral objection to eating vegetables" is, one would imagine, very nearly a null set.
  • It is interesting. Vegetables are alive, well by my high school science lessons they are. So is carrot cake cruel.
  • They are not sentient, so no.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    It is interesting. Vegetables are alive, well by my high school science lessons they are.

    You say that as if you're not sure...

  • Hugal wrote: »
    It is interesting. Vegetables are alive, well by my high school science lessons they are. So is carrot cake cruel.

    Sam Shepherd wrote several plays in the late 70s/early 80s in which vegetables featured prominently - being harvested, you could feel their distress at being separated from the plant which had nurtured them, and the cruelty of the knife cuts; again, more cruelty as peas were shelled, corn cut from the cob and so forth. Cruelty to vegetables is something vegans and vegetarians fail to discuss.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Why? They'd cost more, not be as good, and the intersection of "eats meat" with "moral objection to eating vegetables" is, one would imagine, very nearly a null set.

    Oh, I doubt it very much. I'm sure that if you delve into somewhere like "we hunted the mammoth" they'll point you to some delightful chaps who've decided to tell the world how the eating of vegetables is a conspiracy invented by the feminazis to contaminate our precious bodily fluids and sap us of our vital essence.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Why? They'd cost more, not be as good, and the intersection of "eats meat" with "moral objection to eating vegetables" is, one would imagine, very nearly a null set.

    Oh, I doubt it very much. I'm sure that if you delve into somewhere like "we hunted the mammoth" they'll point you to some delightful chaps who've decided to tell the world how the eating of vegetables is a conspiracy invented by the feminazis to contaminate our precious bodily fluids and sap us of our vital essence.

    I keep forgetting just how divorced some people are from any concept of a rational thought process.

    I doubt that any of them want a fake carrot though.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Why? They'd cost more, not be as good, and the intersection of "eats meat" with "moral objection to eating vegetables" is, one would imagine, very nearly a null set.

    Oh, I doubt it very much. I'm sure that if you delve into somewhere like "we hunted the mammoth" they'll point you to some delightful chaps who've decided to tell the world how the eating of vegetables is a conspiracy invented by the feminazis to contaminate our precious bodily fluids and sap us of our vital essence.

    I keep forgetting just how divorced some people are from any concept of a rational thought process.

    I doubt that any of them want a fake carrot though.

    Nope. I'm sure they consider the eating of any long, cylindrical food to be unmanly.
  • They are not sentient, so no.

    See: Samuel Butler regarding "a potato in a dark cellar" ...
    And in fact, some degree of sensitivity to stimulus is one of the central biological definitions of "life" ...
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