Telford

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  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited October 2020
    As everyone says there's always the choice not to be here. But, knowing that people are venting about you behind your back in a way they'd never do face to face (or they would themselves face some pretty searching questions), narrows the field a bit. This is the only place I know where stuff is "allowed" nay encouraged by some, that is destructive and damaging. The name or the location really are no cover when what you need is grace and generosity.

    If a person is being destructive and damaging Hell is the place to call them out on it.

    I would say exactly the same to @Telford face to face. There is no post of mine here that I wouldn’t. Telford was invited to come here - he could well be reading. It’s by no means ‘behind his back’. That would be talking about him by PM. Something I would never do.

    This sort of vague post doesn’t help because people like me think ‘where have I been destructive and damaging?’ ‘do you, @ExclamationMark, mean me?’ if so I’d rather you said.



  • As everyone says there's always the choice not to be here. But, knowing that people are venting about you behind your back in a way they'd never do face to face (or they would themselves face some pretty searching questions), narrows the field a bit. This is the only place I know where stuff is "allowed" nay encouraged by some, that is destructive and damaging. The name or the location really are no cover when what you need is grace and generosity.

    Nothing in Hell is behind your back. That is what makes it valuable. At the worst you discover that someone has a beef with you, and what it is. At best you may even manage to settle it.

    Demanding grace and generosity of seriously pissed off people, some of whom are not even Christian!, is asking for the moon. Start with Hell, which is usually an attempt at very rough justice. Grace and mercy sometimes poke their noses in later, even in Hell, once the issues have been aired. But papering over confkict is not grace, it is a recipe for hypocrisy and deep, settled resentment.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Yes, it was petty.
    Sort of. But it was a genuine irritation and we are allowed to speak our minds in Hell.

    That we are allowed to speak our minds in Hell is absolutely 100% irrelevant to whether the remark was petty. You have a perfect right to say something petty. That does not make it not-petty.
  • As everyone says there's always the choice not to be here. But, knowing that people are venting about you behind your back in a way they'd never do face to face (or they would themselves face some pretty searching questions), narrows the field a bit. This is the only place I know where stuff is "allowed" nay encouraged by some, that is destructive and damaging. The name or the location really are no cover when what you need is grace and generosity.

    Dunno what you mean about venting behind someone's back. Telford can read this thread; it's not like they are excluded from access.
  • Indeed. This rather odd episode is rendered even more odd by Telford's absence...
  • As everyone says there's always the choice not to be here. But, knowing that people are venting about you behind your back in a way they'd never do face to face (or they would themselves face some pretty searching questions), narrows the field a bit. This is the only place I know where stuff is "allowed" nay encouraged by some, that is destructive and damaging. The name or the location really are no cover when what you need is grace and generosity.

    Nothing in Hell is behind your back. That is what makes it valuable. At the worst you discover that someone has a beef with you, and what it is. At best you may even manage to settle it.

    Demanding grace and generosity of seriously pissed off people, some of whom are not even Christian!, is asking for the moon. Start with Hell, which is usually an attempt at very rough justice. Grace and mercy sometimes poke their noses in later, even in Hell, once the issues have been aired. But papering over confkict is not grace, it is a recipe for hypocrisy and deep, settled resentment.

    It is behind your back if you (the accused) take advice that has been given - how often I don't know - not to come here if you don't want to read it.

    I am not demanding grace - I'm trying to suggest it as a solution. Notice I didn't use a big G so I'm not thinking of the Christian pov, merely to ask ourselves whether we would ever want the same kind of response in return. That's based on the universal golden rule.

    Grace acknowledges conflict imo and refuses to ignore or paper over it. The idea is then to try to find the means of settlement that doesn't depend on character assassination or exercise of reverse bullying in the power of better words.
  • ExclamationMarkExclamationMark Shipmate
    edited October 2020
    Boogie wrote: »
    As everyone says there's always the choice not to be here. But, knowing that people are venting about you behind your back in a way they'd never do face to face (or they would themselves face some pretty searching questions), narrows the field a bit. This is the only place I know where stuff is "allowed" nay encouraged by some, that is destructive and damaging. The name or the location really are no cover when what you need is grace and generosity.

    If a person is being destructive and damaging Hell is the place to call them out on it.

    I would say exactly the same to @Telford face to face. There is no post of mine here that I wouldn’t. Telford was invited to come here - he could well be reading. It’s by no means ‘behind his back’. That would be talking about him by PM. Something I would never do.

    This sort of vague post doesn’t help because people like me think ‘where have I been destructive and damaging?’ ‘do you, @ExclamationMark, mean me?’ if so I’d rather you said.

    Let's be a little careful on how we define destructive and damaging. To do so, seems to judge in the way that gets many people on these boards screaming out "You can't judge." Who defines damaging and destructive? Who gets the right - and how do they obtain it - to do the calling?

    I've got into a fair bit of trouble over the years of being honest in circumstances where others aren't. Indeed, having recently stepped down from a National role, that very point was made in the public thanks.

    I don't mean you (as referenced) but as you have posed the point perhaps I, you and everyone could consider what words written on here might look like said in the public arena. It's possible that the way you and I think we say and write things is not the way people receive them: you may have found that in your teaching career.

    We might also reflect on the impact of the things we see and the suffering in silence it causes. Online you cannot chose the context of a response in the way you can irl: Telford may get a screed of spleen at the very time someone close to him is very ill - irl you can see and know more and realise when not to start and when to stop.

  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    I think you are arguing against online discussion there @ExclamationMark. Maybe you don’t see the purpose of Hell here?

    I do - it (often) helps keep discussion on the other boards from being personal or stops people from withdrawing in exasperation.

    Nobody can know what’s going on irl. We just have to assume that people going through difficulties and trauma will keep away from being contentious and difficult here on the Ship - thus facing criticism.

    Of course we are careful, read through this thread - it’s nothing like we see on Twitter, or what you are describing. It’s simply asking @Telford to stop derailing threads.

    I have a form of rejection-sensitive dysphoria (RSD) connected with my ADHD. This means I have to be careful online and so I deleted Twitter because I couldn’t take it. But that’s my choice, just as it’s my choice to come on the Ship.

    We have to assume that everyone here on the Ship are adults and taking care of their own mental health. That doesn’t give us cart-blanche (sp?) but it does mean we can relax and speak our minds (I hope).





  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I'd say the 'we are all adults' thing needs to go both ways, so it doesn't become victim blaming.

    When people talk of Hell being a safety valve, for people to be able to express their frustrations, I think it is fair to say that as adults we can control how we express these frustrations, and we can consider the effectiveness, the impact, etc., and always be aware that there are real people with real lives behind the screen, who will be affected by our words, no matter how well they are able to take care of their mental health. And if someone is struggling to take care of their mental health, that does not make them any less of an adult. Not everyone has the same support structures in place.

    If people feel they really can't control themselves, and they need to hurl insults in fury because someone went off on a tangent in a Purg thread, then seriously, you have the choice to move away from the computer screen and return when calmer, and you can express the issue more articulately.

    There is a thing I notice online where a bunch of people talk about someone in the third person, in a derogatory way, grumbling or mocking them, but also in a public space where the person can see it. I call that 'speaking behind someone's back in front of them.' This often happens in Hell. I find it passive aggressive and not a healthy way to resolve conflict. I'm strongly in favour of a system that allows someone to make a thread where they say 'Look, mate, you're really pissing me off - we need to talk about this. Why are you doing X, Y and Z?' Because that is addressing the person, giving them chance to respond and talk - though equally it's their choice whether they do. But when everyone then chips in to say 'Oh, yes, he annoys me too,' 'Yes, he is such a little shit head!', and has a sort of snickery gossip about him, in front of him, but in the third person, so he can't really address it, that is completely non-constructive, and a kind of bullying.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited October 2020
    I agree with everything you said there @fineline.

    My OP was speaking to @Telford.

    I wanted to talk to him about it, which is not allowed on any other board.

    @fineline said -
    If people feel they really can't control themselves, and they need to hurl insults in fury because someone went off on a tangent in a Purg thread, then seriously, you have the choice to move away from the computer screen and return when calmer, and you can express the issue more articulately.

    Look at the OP again, it does none of that.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I was talking generally about Hell, @Boogie. I don't need to look again at your OP. I saw it. You did address Telford, I know. I'm not sure how helpful what you said was, as it was about you, rather than him. It didn't address his behaviour, but seemed to come from an assumption that he would think it a terrible thing if you stopped posting on the Ship. I'm not sure what sort of relationship he has built up with you in the forums, or whether he would miss you if you stopped posting. I know if someone I didn't really know called me to Hell announcing that I was single-handedly putting them off visiting the Ship, and they didn't elaborate, but just said 'enough said,' as if this was the most terribly important thing ever, I'd find that kind of self-absorbed and self-important, and say 'Okay, bye then.'

    FWIW, I notice that when people (myself included) are posting a lot on a social site, being quite addicted, it is much easier for them to feel irritated by someone and put off posting. It becomes a big part of your world, takes up a lot of room in your head, and annoyances are magnified. So the fact that you, as a 30-post-a-day addict, are being put off posting by a person who is always going off on tangents and annoying you isn't really surprising. And possibly if you had a bit of a break, you would have a broader perspective.
  • As everyone says there's always the choice not to be here. But, knowing that people are venting about you behind your back in a way they'd never do face to face

    I think the difference is that you can avoid a lot of face to face encounters, whereas on the board the discussion flows where it will and people respond to whoever they like, and Hell is an - imperfect - means of trying to serve as a safety valve of sorts.
  • fineline wrote: »
    I'm not saying this to suggest it's okay, but just to explain what I have observed. I agree it can become bullying. I think on the old Ship, people often enjoyed having a big virtual punch-up in Hell, almost like it was a game, coming up with fun insults, whether they were the target or the attackers, but these days it does seem to be more a place for grumbling self-righteously about people who don't fit in, as if their difficulties with social interaction, understanding of context, logic, articulation, etc., were all a deliberate ploy to disrupt the settled decorum of the Ship as it is today.
    This is a good observation, IMO. I think the change in Hell reflects the change in the Ship in general. SOF overall has a darker tone than it has had in the past.
    fineline wrote: »
    But it is absolutely fine to come to Hell and defend someone being attacked, and point out that people are being unfair, having double standards, etc. I do this sometimes.
    ISTM, some the attacks on Holly for defending Telford have been OTT. And frankly bizarre.

    But you are posting with sense and Hell isn't really about that.
  • Holy shit! The daft bastard posted that the teacher who was beheaded effectively deserved it.
  • I think that’s a rather extreme interpretation of what he has said.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited October 2020
    But it could be so construed...though he may not have meant it in that way.
  • fineline wrote: »
    But when everyone then chips in to say 'Oh, yes, he annoys me too,' 'Yes, he is such a little shit head!', and has a sort of snickery gossip about him, in front of him, but in the third person, so he can't really address it, that is completely non-constructive, and a kind of bullying.

    What bullshit. Of course he can address it.
  • But it could be so construed...though he may not have meant it in that way.

    I'd say other nasty things he has posted have killed the benefit-of-the-doubt in me.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    mousethief wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    But when everyone then chips in to say 'Oh, yes, he annoys me too,' 'Yes, he is such a little shit head!', and has a sort of snickery gossip about him, in front of him, but in the third person, so he can't really address it, that is completely non-constructive, and a kind of bullying.

    What bullshit. Of course he can address it.

    Well, maybe if everyone was finding you annoying and snickering about you in a hell thread, making lots of vague, snarky, belittling comments about what a wanker idiot pathetic troll that mousethief is, and you weren't understanding why, you'd be able to just wander in and deal with it fine, addressing everyone's comments with panache, finding out exactly what makes everyone think you're such a knobhead, and get everything sorted. But not everyone is you. It's far easier for many to address it if someone speaks to them directly and tells them what the issue is.
  • But that's been done. On the threads, by the Crew, and for all I know, in private messages. To be honest, this looks to me like another "Why do we need Hell, they're so mean down there" thread to me. But Hell serves a very necessary purpose, and it in no way stops anybody from trying any of the peaceable methods mentioned above.
  • If Telford doesn't understand why by this point, there's something very wrong that probably precludes the ability to converse intelligently on any topic.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Well, yes. That is what I was saying earlier about why I don't interact with him in discussions. It's not so unusual for someone to be like this though. People all have different levels of logical thought, subtlety, self-awareness, ability to reflect on impact on others, etc. And certainly it's incredibly common for people to shut down and get defensive when they feel criticised, rather than try to listen and learn.

    It's not necessarily something 'very wrong' - or no more wrong than anyone else. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. I come across plenty of people who interact like Telford elsewhere online, where there is a far wider range of people, backgrounds, social classes, etc., and discussion is more casual, and can include banter and tangents (which is more the norm in other groups I'm in). It's just more unusual for someone like this to be on the Ship.
  • fineline wrote: »
    Well, yes. That is what I was saying earlier about why I don't interact with him in discussions. It's not so unusual for someone to be like this though. People all have different levels of logical thought, subtlety, self-awareness, ability to reflect on impact on others, etc. And certainly it's incredibly common for people to shut down and get defensive when they feel criticised, rather than try to listen and learn.

    Of course this could be read as deeply patronising and, in a rather passive-aggressive way, more insulting than the direct attacks.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    fineline wrote: »
    Well, yes. That is what I was saying earlier about why I don't interact with him in discussions. It's not so unusual for someone to be like this though. People all have different levels of logical thought, subtlety, self-awareness, ability to reflect on impact on others, etc. And certainly it's incredibly common for people to shut down and get defensive when they feel criticised, rather than try to listen and learn.

    Of course this could be read as deeply patronising and, in a rather passive-aggressive way, more insulting than the direct attacks.

    It could, yes. I am talking broadly about Hell. I don't know Telford personally. I don't like talking about him in the third person. I'm talking about my observations of human nature. If people see these as patronising, this could be due to their own assumptions, judgements and values of what makes a good/bad person. I don't see variations in intelligence, self awareness, logic, eloquence, etc. as something to be proud/ashamed of, any more than variations in appearance, nationality, etc. We are all different, and as far as I'm concerned, that is okay.

    I personally think it's incredibly patronising to be expecting everyone to listen to and learn from every criticism of their personality and communication style. I've experienced in the past ship mates telling me, 'for my own good', the best way to be respected and accepted on the Ship, and I found it patronising. As far as I'm concerned, I'm here to be myself and people can decide whether or not they like or respect me.

    I think this practice of calling people to Hell to pull apart their every flaw is only potentially helpful for certain types of people. Not everyone will respond positively to it. If you see that observation as patronising, that suggests you see everyone as needing to conform to one particular personality type/behaviour, and that everything that differs from this is an aberration. I don't see it in these terms.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Incidentally, to give an example which illustrates what I am saying, and which could no doubt be read as patronising if I wasn't using it to describe myself, it is quite common for autistic people's communication to be read/heard as patronising, when the autistic person (in their own mind) is analysing something fairly, without the various assumptions and judgements that non-autistic people might have. It is something commonly posted about in autism groups. Again, this is a difference in communication, and personally I think it is more helpful for people to be more open to such differences, accapting that they exist and they are okay, rather than seeing them as 'something very wrong.'

    In terms of passive aggression, this is not something I am generally able to do, as I find it unnecessarily complicated and confusing. I have no problem telling someone directly if I am finding them rude, self absorbed, or a wanker. But I also apply thought to whether/how/why I say this - what I am hoping to achieve and how realistic that is. When it comes to Hell, what I often see is someone being on the receiving end of many many posts telling them how shitty they are, some being specific, some being vague, some being first person, some being third person, some being mocking, some being serious, and the person often is genuinely overwhelmed and confused (as I would be too, and I see nothing shameful in this) and the issue normally is that their people/communication skills aren't as subtle as people on the Ship would prefer. And perhaps an underlying value judgement that people who communicate more subtly are somehow inherently superior - so much so that it's seen as patronising to point out that not everyone has communication subtlety skills.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    You make some good points @fineline. Being dyslexic I have to be careful when I post as much thought processes differ from those who are not dyslexic. That said the rules are he rules. From what I have seen on other boards having Hell in here s very very good
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Yep, I agree, rules are rules, and important to have Host posts for when they are broken, and warnings and suspensions if people persist. And we have Styx for if people want to contest a hosting being unfair, or if they don't understand it. And Hell for a more informal battling it out. My point was that the Hell approach isn't going to be helpful for everyone. The structure on the Ship is quite unusual as web communities go. I find it kind of old fashioned posh British. Reminds me a bit of Enid Blyton boarding school stories. I find it interesting, and like the Enid Blyton books, it fits the types of people who are most likely to join the school/ship. But not everyone. Maybe less suited for younger generations in general too, as the way online communication works is constantly changing. The types of people I would recommend the Ship to are quite a narrow demographic.
  • Is it really necessary to self disclose diagnoses in Hell?
  • Boogie wrote: »
    I think you are arguing against online discussion there @ExclamationMark. Maybe you don’t see the purpose of Hell here?

    I do - it (often) helps keep discussion on the other boards from being personal or stops people from withdrawing in exasperation.

    Nobody can know what’s going on irl. We just have to assume that people going through difficulties and trauma will keep away from being contentious and difficult here on the Ship - thus facing criticism.

    Of course we are careful, read through this thread - it’s nothing like we see on Twitter, or what you are describing. It’s simply asking @Telford to stop derailing threads.

    I have a form of rejection-sensitive dysphoria (RSD) connected with my ADHD. This means I have to be careful online and so I deleted Twitter because I couldn’t take it. But that’s my choice, just as it’s my choice to come on the Ship.

    We have to assume that everyone here on the Ship are adults and taking care of their own mental health. That doesn’t give us cart-blanche (sp?) but it does mean we can relax and speak our minds (I hope).

    Yes I do see the purpose of Hell in its safety valve form in calling to account.. I don't - tbh- see any purpose in it becoming (or remaining a place) where an individual becomes the butt of everyone's frustration.

    Let's not forget that we all upset others from time to time. It's part of who we are and can come from sharing our (reasonable) views that others find unreasonable. The vast vast majority of us do it unwittingly but this Hell rather looks like people who are doing it deliberately not accidentally - and sometimes enjoying doing so.

    If someone is gong through trauma they may be just as likely to be contentious on here. Either getting it out of their system or having little choice because it is now who they are. Didn't you find that with the pupils you taught?

    As I see it, you are making this a little personal. I could read your OP to Telford as being along the lines of trying to make him feel guilty if you had to stop posting. You seemed to think I was talking about you when I wrote about motivation. It is how I generally perceive it here. If that's wrong by others then I have no worries about that: it's how I see it. You've taken issue with others.

    If I have an issue with you, I will do what I once did and address you direct. That fact that you chose not to respond then is fine. That's your prerogative. It doesn't change my view on you or anyone else.

  • Hell is a mixed bag. It can be no other way. It is a place to vent, a place to bully, a place to be more personal, a source of pain, a source of relief. There is no perfect way for it to exist and for everyone's feels to be accommodated/respected equally. Eliminating its existence would also not be a fair thing to everyone.
  • If someone is gong through trauma they may be just as likely to be contentious on here. Either getting it out of their system or having little choice because it is now who they are. Didn't you find that with the pupils you taught?

    As I see it, you are making this a little personal. I could read your OP to Telford as being along the lines of trying to make him feel guilty if you had to stop posting. You seemed to think I was talking about you when I wrote about motivation. It is how I generally perceive it here. If that's wrong by others then I have no worries about that: it's how I see it. You've taken issue with others.

    You seem to be saying if someone is having a rough time it's okay for them to be shitty to us here, but it's not okay for us (who may or may not be having a rough time) to vent about it. A little one-sided isn't it?
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Is it really necessary to self disclose diagnoses in Hell?

    Are you addressing me? It's hardly a new disclosure, as I've mentioned it plenty of times before. And it was relevant to what I was saying, rather than a random out-of-the blue thing, to help illustrate my point. It was also specifically relevant to Arethosemyfeet's suggestion that I was being patronising, to show that when I say some people have social difficulties, it is not a 'them and us' thing, but I am including myself too. Obviously, in Hell one is aware one is painting a big target on one's chest, so one self-discloses with awareness that anything can be used against one. It's a risk I take, if I consider something might be helpful to others, with the hope of raising awareness and increasing compassion. I'm not ashamed of my diagnosis, and I don't feel the need to hide it in Hell. I so far haven't experienced anyone mocking me for it (to my face, at least), but if you want to, this is Hell, so there is nothing stopping you.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited October 2020
    He could have been addressing me too @fineline, or @Hugal.

    My reply would have been the same. I don’t hide my diagnoses from anyone and sometimes they are relevant or useful as an illustration.

    (I never disclosed my diagnoses in work settings - that’s usually a bad idea in my experience)
  • mousethief wrote: »
    If someone is gong through trauma they may be just as likely to be contentious on here. Either getting it out of their system or having little choice because it is now who they are. Didn't you find that with the pupils you taught?

    As I see it, you are making this a little personal. I could read your OP to Telford as being along the lines of trying to make him feel guilty if you had to stop posting. You seemed to think I was talking about you when I wrote about motivation. It is how I generally perceive it here. If that's wrong by others then I have no worries about that: it's how I see it. You've taken issue with others.

    You seem to be saying if someone is having a rough time it's okay for them to be shitty to us here, but it's not okay for us (who may or may not be having a rough time) to vent about it. A little one-sided isn't it?

    No I'm not saying it's ok - I'm saying that it happens. I'm not that bothered about the reacting/venting from one person, either. What does concern me is when one person piles in and others quickly join in the melee. It's like being in the playground seeing someone starting the kicking and joining in, partly because you want the approval of the person starting it all as much as you want to vent yourself. The joining in is the least attractive element of worrying opportunity.

    The joining in can also be seen as taking up the cudgels on someone else's behalf.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    (I never disclosed my diagnoses in work settings - that’s usually a bad idea in my experience)
    Not even when it might have explained certain aspects of your behaviour?

  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited October 2020
    Boogie wrote: »
    (I never disclosed my diagnoses in work settings - that’s usually a bad idea in my experience)
    Not even when it might have explained certain aspects of your behaviour?

    No, because I used many coping strategies to deal with my ‘behaviour’ long before I got diagnosed. After diagnosis I added more to my arsenal. I am now an ADHD coach.

    ADHD is one of the most misunderstood neurological conditions, no way would I have trusted people outside my family to understand it (or try to understand it). I saw other members of staff treating and talking about ADDer children totally wrongly, misunderstanding the purpose of medication by a mile. So I would have had no chance.

    Some people don’t want to understand.

    But this is a subject for All Saints - not Hell.

  • Several comments here have surprised me. In the past Hell made me very uncomfortable, because lots of people would jump into a thread to be entertained, and bring popcorn (for example). Although some folk have claimed that happens today, I don't see it. Or maybe I've got old and cynical.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    (I never disclosed my diagnoses in work settings - that’s usually a bad idea in my experience)
    Not even when it might have explained certain aspects of your behaviour?
    Having a reason why a behaviour exists is not the same as having an excuse. I've a list of real reasons why I have anger management issues. They do not constitute and excuse for my behaviour, though.
    Life is not zero-sum. There are reasons why we behave as we do, things/people to blame the behaviours on. At the same time, we have the responsibility to manage what we are. It may not seem completely fair, but it is reality.
  • Several comments here have surprised me. In the past Hell made me very uncomfortable, because lots of people would jump into a thread to be entertained, and bring popcorn (for example). Although some folk have claimed that happens today, I don't see it. Or maybe I've got old and cynical.
    People still engage in the mob mentality, or at least did until the recent lockdowns. I used to be a Hell proponent. And Whilst I still agree that it can serve a purpose, I am becoming more ambivalent towards it.
    One reason is that the venting isn't always productive. I have a heavy bag that I used to use to vent steam. I bought it in part to help reduce anger. But, instead, it provides a temporary feel good whilst actually serving to reinforce that anger.
    From what I can see, Hell often works that way. Rather than dissipate anger, it can cement it.
    I don't think there is a perfect solution to prevent that whilst still allowing a healthy vent.
    Someone earlier mentioned a more fun past in Hell. I do remember the period they are referencing, where insults felt like a game and Hell certainly does not feel this way now. But I question whether it was ever a good idea to think this way. I am certainly guilty of gamifying posting down here. I hate to seem like a braggart, but I was pretty good at it. But I question whether it was always justified.
  • It rather destroys the point of the place. If someone has a beef with someone else on the ship, and the thread turns into a game, then the beef can never be satisfactorily resolved. And what it does it that it makes people less and less likely to use Hell as the relief valve it's meant to be, and when that happens the pent-up frustrations back up onto the threads in the other boards, obviating Hell altogether. At that point we might as well shut down Hell because it has been ruined, all so some people can play.
  • Yeah, I don't know. I think creativity and a level of play has a place. But I also think it can get in the way. I There are a number of things that get in the way of resolving issues here. The main one being that resolution is far less often the point of a Hell call than it should be.
  • It helps if the callee shows up and takes the call seriously.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    It helps if the callee shows up and takes the call seriously.
    The caller must be willing to actually discuss and that is far from universally the case.

  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    It helps if the callee shows up and takes the call seriously.
    The caller must be willing to actually discuss and that is far from universally the case.

    Exactly.
  • Just so, but the Shropshire Somnifacient persists in peppering other threads with his stupid one-brain-cell comments instead.
    :angry:
  • Just so, but the Shropshire Somnifacient persists in peppering other threads with his stupid one-brain-cell comments instead.
    :angry:

    I think I should at least be credited for this particular soubriquet. :p
  • Gladly!

    I'm afraid I couldn't quite recall who had come up with it, but I do now umbly acknowledge your inspired authorship...

    :grin:
    :mask:
  • I repeat my observation that Telford is an emotional vampire (vide 'What we do in the Shadows') feeding on the irritation he engenders. The Boris thread is now filling with his stuff because people, otherwise sane rational people, are, despite all the dangers in doing this, feeding him. Please, please stop!
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    Why?

    This is Hell.

    There's nowhere much else to go to, and nothing much to do when we get there.

    If it all gets too OTT, the H&As will step in.

    (I'm not saying you're wrong, BTW).
  • Err, I understand about the necessity of ranting in Hell. My plea was that we stop feeding him on the other threads.
This discussion has been closed.