One issue I have with the focus on raising money for disabled and/or traumatised veterans is that the government should be providing adequate support for everyone in that position, veteran or not. The person born with cerebral palsy, the person traumatised by domestic abuse, the person dealing with MS, the person maimed while fishing or fighting a fire or building a house are no more or less entitled to support and help.
The disabled and/or traumatized veteran was injured whilst working for the government as a soldier. In their case, the government has not only the general responsibility of government towards its people, but also the specific responsibility of an employer whose employee is injured on the job.
True, but I'm not sure how you see that difference playing out in practical terms.
I don't observe the day in any way at all. If I am at Mass on the nearest Sunday I keep the silence alongside everyone else. That's it.
Just caught up with this.
I do the same, though I bunked off church last Sunday and today (no Mass, anyway, due to lockdown). I no longer wear a poppy (red or white), which probably makes me a Bad Person.
I don't observe the day in any way at all. If I am at Mass on the nearest Sunday I keep the silence alongside everyone else. That's it.
Just caught up with this.
I do the same, though I bunked off church last Sunday and today (no Mass, anyway, due to lockdown). I no longer wear a poppy (red or white), which probably makes me a Bad Person.
It may be difficult, given that you're now in late autumn, but is there a flower from your garden that you could wear instead? If questioned, you could say that you chose it rather than a poppy because it does flower in London on Remembrance Day.
I only wear my poppies when actually leading worship (it's expected of me, I don't want to cause a rumpus etc) but not at other times. That probably makes me a Hypocrite!
I do the same and I think it means that I know what I’m doing. At the time remembrance, which is for 2 minutes, I am wearing my (red and white) poppies and remembering.
Actually, this year I was wearing them for 4 shot ceremonies, but that was all. I know what I’m doing. People who talk of a “season of remembrance” possibly do not. I have thought this through, some people just go along with what seems done or nice.
Query: In certain circles, is it now virtue-signalling not to wear a poppy?
That's a pretty weak signal.
Maybe publically proclaiming your opposition to poppies would be a form of ostentatious virtue-advertisement(*), but I'd agree that the simple not-wearing of one is likely to go unnoticed(unless maybe done at a Legion Hall in early November).
(*) I'm personally uncomfortable with the phrase "virtue signalling", due to its origins in right-wing sociobiology. Not that everyone who utters the phrase is intending to evoke that context, but I think some people still use it to promote the general worldview of evolutionary psychology.
Maybe publically proclaiming your opposition to poppies would be a form of ostentatious virtue-advertisement(*), but I'd agree that the simple not-wearing of one is likely to go unnoticed.
Especially this year, when they were harder to obtain due to lockdowns.
I have never known a trainifarian to be a hypocrite. It is a noble and ancient faith.
Oh, I don't know: one could proudly declare one's allegiance to God's Wonderful Railway while secretly harbouring an admiration for the Maryport & Carlisle ...
Better not derail this thread, I see catch points ahead.
Interesting, given Remembrance Day's mixed heritage (John McCrae was Canadian) the White Poppy is never seen in Canada. Moreover in Canada Remembrance Day never lost its "Never Again" aspect. That has always been the orinary message here since at least the 1980's
Well, here is a Canadian website promoting the white poppy, including photos of people wearing them, some in conjunction with the red poppy. Apparently, white poppy ceremonies in Vancouver were sponsored in conjunction with the local Unitarians.
But yeah, I don't think I have ever seen someone wearing one, though have heard them talked up in what I would consider to be non-mainstream left-wing circles(ie. the left of the NDP, or further afield). I get the impression they're maybe some sort of British import?
As for the idea that "Never Again" is the main idea of Remembrance Day in Canada, well, Don Cherry's infamous rant was all about how "these guys died for your way of life", and I'd say about 99% of the 99% pro-Cherry comments(*) I've seen below any news articles about that controversy take the same line. Not that the commentators neccessarily want the wars to happen again, just that preventing them doesn't seem to be their main focus.
(*) IOW 99% of the comments are pro-Cherry, and 99% of those pro-Cherry comments are about valorizing the dead soldiers for defending our freedom, not about stopping future wars.
The smug Canadian thing would be to say that up here, someone like Cherry gets confined to TV, whereas south of the border, they'd make him president. But I'm pretty sure that if he found the right riding, Cherry could easily get elected to the House Of Commons. Likely wouldn't be able to become party leader, much less PM, however.
"Ridings" is a lovely term, much nicer than "Constituencies". In the UK, we only have (had?) them in Yorkshire, plus literal ones in Borders towns such as Hawick: http://www.hawickcommonriding.co.uk/the-common-riding/
I think it derives from a word that meant 'thirding', which is why in Yorkshire there are historically three of them. I don't know whether the three parts of Lincolnshire are ever called Ridings.
I think it derives from a word that meant 'thirding', which is why in Yorkshire there are historically three of them. I don't know whether the three parts of Lincolnshire are ever called Ridings.
From what I've been reading, that's basically correct. Though I'm sure it's been subject to a zillion false-etymologies along the lines of "How far you could ride a horse in a day" etc.
On Remembrance Day, never forget this too. Which reinforces the game changing book Losing Small Wars.
Martin, my three boys are all in the RAAF, and at least the one who lives closest to us and has served in the Middle East and had two short deployments to Kandahar has previously expressed anger at the arrogance and incompetence of Army NCOs with whom he's had to deal. We haven't spoken today, but I suspect he will be disgusted.
An independent senator has called for senior officers to fall on their sword, taking moral responsibility for the actions of their juniors. This would include the Chief of Defence Force who was the Task Group Commander for a 12-month rotation and the Chief of Army, who commanded the SAS Regiment and a special forces contingent in two rotations in the early 2000's.
I've posted about the war crimes committed by Australian troops in Afghanistan in the Oz Politics thread. 39 prisoners and non-combatants were murdered. None of the murders happened in live fire situations. Lest We Forget.
Comments
Thank you for the reminder to submit my posts to you for approval in future before posting.
True, but I'm not sure how you see that difference playing out in practical terms.
Just caught up with this.
I do the same, though I bunked off church last Sunday and today (no Mass, anyway, due to lockdown). I no longer wear a poppy (red or white), which probably makes me a Bad Person.
It may be difficult, given that you're now in late autumn, but is there a flower from your garden that you could wear instead? If questioned, you could say that you chose it rather than a poppy because it does flower in London on Remembrance Day.
Actually, this year I was wearing them for 4 shot ceremonies, but that was all. I know what I’m doing. People who talk of a “season of remembrance” possibly do not. I have thought this through, some people just go along with what seems done or nice.
That's a pretty weak signal.
Maybe publically proclaiming your opposition to poppies would be a form of ostentatious virtue-advertisement(*), but I'd agree that the simple not-wearing of one is likely to go unnoticed(unless maybe done at a Legion Hall in early November).
(*) I'm personally uncomfortable with the phrase "virtue signalling", due to its origins in right-wing sociobiology. Not that everyone who utters the phrase is intending to evoke that context, but I think some people still use it to promote the general worldview of evolutionary psychology.
Better not derail this thread, I see catch points ahead.
Well, here is a Canadian website promoting the white poppy, including photos of people wearing them, some in conjunction with the red poppy. Apparently, white poppy ceremonies in Vancouver were sponsored in conjunction with the local Unitarians.
But yeah, I don't think I have ever seen someone wearing one, though have heard them talked up in what I would consider to be non-mainstream left-wing circles(ie. the left of the NDP, or further afield). I get the impression they're maybe some sort of British import?
As for the idea that "Never Again" is the main idea of Remembrance Day in Canada, well, Don Cherry's infamous rant was all about how "these guys died for your way of life", and I'd say about 99% of the 99% pro-Cherry comments(*) I've seen below any news articles about that controversy take the same line. Not that the commentators neccessarily want the wars to happen again, just that preventing them doesn't seem to be their main focus.
(*) IOW 99% of the comments are pro-Cherry, and 99% of those pro-Cherry comments are about valorizing the dead soldiers for defending our freedom, not about stopping future wars.
The smug Canadian thing would be to say that up here, someone like Cherry gets confined to TV, whereas south of the border, they'd make him president. But I'm pretty sure that if he found the right riding, Cherry could easily get elected to the House Of Commons. Likely wouldn't be able to become party leader, much less PM, however.
Parts indeed. Holland, Kesteven and Lindsey.
From what I've been reading, that's basically correct. Though I'm sure it's been subject to a zillion false-etymologies along the lines of "How far you could ride a horse in a day" etc.
Martin, my three boys are all in the RAAF, and at least the one who lives closest to us and has served in the Middle East and had two short deployments to Kandahar has previously expressed anger at the arrogance and incompetence of Army NCOs with whom he's had to deal. We haven't spoken today, but I suspect he will be disgusted.
An independent senator has called for senior officers to fall on their sword, taking moral responsibility for the actions of their juniors. This would include the Chief of Defence Force who was the Task Group Commander for a 12-month rotation and the Chief of Army, who commanded the SAS Regiment and a special forces contingent in two rotations in the early 2000's.